Katie Springs The Mosque Trap On Obama

Interesting what low ratings will make you say.

Katie Couric's Notebook: Obama's Background

Is America ready for a President who grew up praying in a mosque?

And he has other issues, judging by these photos. lol

Comments

[nowinger]

1. Bush asserted that he could apprehend an American citizen in America and American law did not apply to them.

2. Bush authorized secret reviews of emails and telephone calls of American citizens without benefit of a warrant or any court notification.

3. The FBI has admitted it has misused its new Patriot Act powers and has used those powers in situations and cases that are not related to terrorism.

4. Bush has sought to punish government whistleblowers who make public negative, but factual information about the government.

5. Bush has asserted that the US is not bound by the Geneva Conventions.

6. Bush has asserted that he has the power to authorize torture [but he wouldn't].

7. Bush has demanded the power to access library records and has gotten it.

I could go on, but if that doesn't look like an assault on basic decency and civil liberties, its you who are insane, not me.

[Fred Beloit]

nowinger writes: "Our country and our military is WEAKER [emphasis by nowi] than when he took office..." You have taken on a big territory, too big for this space, when you encompass the entire country. For example are you including the stock market, basketball, medicine. See this charge is too big and amorphous to discuss. I suppose that is why you chose it. But let's just talk military. How do you judge military strength? If I said, oh no we are stronger. How would you refute me, with some information? Or would you just quote something by one of the Lefties at the NYT? Can you give me any information that you know anything about military strength or weakness?

[nowinger]

Anything I cite you are going to dismiss. What's the point. There are reports published by the Pentagon that indicate the terror threat has increased. The strain on the military and reserve of Bush's war should be obvious even to the wingers. There are op eds written by former military outlining all the ways that Bush's war has weakened the armed forces. A host of experts have said exactly what I have said: America is less safe because of HOW the war on terror has been waged and because of the failures in Iraq, are they ALL liberal and wrong? Is the Pentagon and DOD also chock full of liberal traitors? Did these liberal traitors rise to command level, serve their country for decades and then, come out only during Bush to show their true colors. WAKE UP.

[Fred Beloit]

1)Did you say Bush said he could apprehend ANY American in America or was this just one specific case? Hyperbole again? 2)Did you say Bush authorized AQLL emails and phone conversations or those with suspected terrorists? Hyperbole? 3) The FBI itself found info had been misused and moved to correct this. 4)Bush saught to punish whistle blowers. You have to show me a case or two. Unless you are talking about the crime of releasing classifies material. 5) Bush said he could authorize torture? You are using too loose a definition of torture. If keeping someone awake for longer than normal periods of time is torture, most of our military is being tortured all of the time. 6) Bush NEVER said the US would not honor the GCs. Untrue. 6}Bush wants the Gov to look at all library records, to include yours. Once again you refer to special situations. This issue has been looked at and once again you are misrepresenting it. Look, no more litanies of false charges. I'm not going to attempt to reeducate you from the beginning. If you want to talk specifics fine, but no more cartloads of BS, please. When will the Gov be coming to get you do you think? Unless you receive phone calls from Bin Laden you have nothing to worry about.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh yes, reports that the MSM play up and reports they hide. For instance, not long ago a Marine Corps Colonel wrote a report for the Marine Corps Commandant that said the war wasn't going well and couldn't be won. The Commandant inspected Iraq personally and has stated the Colonel was wrong. The first report was widely reported in the MSM. I'm not holding my breath to read in the MSM about this far different news.

[nowinger]

1. It only takes one case to make a precedent. Had the supreme court agreed with Bush, there would be nothing stopping the federal government from declaring ANYONE a material witness or a terrorist, refusing to disclose the evidence based on national security concerns and then, holding them forever if they wanted.

2. American citizens who are NOT SUSPECTED of engaging in any terrorist activities or being terrorist sympathizers CAN have their communications monitored. Read again: its okay now to secretly monitor communications of Americans who are NOT suspected of any terrorist related crimes.

3. Yeah, whatever. Self policing always works great.

4. Well, when you make everything secret under National Security there is no way around it. But I specifically refer to the leaked TSA testing results, kept secret, on national security grounds.

5. Did you read the torture memo? I did.

6. You are splitting hairs. He said we were NOT BOUND by the Geneva Conventions, but we would honor them. Except when we didn't which is why we have retroactive immunity for anyone who might have failed to abide by them. As I remember Gonzales called them antiquated and QUANT.

I am not misrepresenting anything.

[Fred Beloit]

There are just as many op eds by pro war ex-military as by anti-war ex-military. And there are experts who say we are weaker and others who say who are stronger. To restate one side's terms of an argument is not to prove that side is right.

[nowinger]

Fred, are you really that naive? You don't think that maybe the second report was a PR stunt by Bush to blunt the first truthful report? Every military person who has told Bush something he did not want to hear has been retired, fired or moved out. Now the dumbfuck thinks a war czar will get him a win? HEs AN ASS. HE IS NOT COMPETANT TO BE PRESIDENT. HIS PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPETANT OR HONEST.

[Fred Beloit]

I'm not going to replaying the entire list again. But I'll try to reply to your number one. May I ask what case you are referring to?

[nowinger]

PS, the reason I think Bush wants a war czar is because something went wrong with Gates and he failed to drink his full glass of kool aid, he's still living in the real world and telling the truth.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh, yes, the conspiracy game now. The last resort of the single minded. We never landed on the moon. 9/11 was a demolition not an aircraft attack. Steel cannot melt (ever hear of molten steel Rosie?) Every misdeed perpetrated in the military thus far, and there have been only a few, was made known by the military, investigated by the military and punished by the military when guilt was established. You are asking us to believe the Commandant of the Marine Corps would do something such as you are suggesting? Just read your own naive and hysterical trash a few times. I have no more time for such as you today. I recognize an impossible task when I see one. Good afternoon. Stay safe from alien abductors and the Loch Ness monster. But mostly try not to believe Oliver Stone. No one, not even I, is after you.

[nowinger]

Non sequeter. Moon landing, loch ness, blabityblabityblah.

Yes. Soldiers are trained to follow orders. Why do you think Colin Powell debased himself before the United Nations? Yes, I believe if commanded to discredit the previous report that the Commander of the Marine Corp would do what he was told to do, even if he did not believe what he was saying.

[nowinger]

Again, how naive are you? Aren't you guys all about propaganda and psychops? Do you actually believe that everything the military tells you about a war zone is true? No, wait, I forget, you believe officials when they say they 'can't remember' or when they need several clarifying statements or when they were 'mistaken' or operating on false/wrong/incomplete information. But, NOBODY LIES. Right? No one lied to Pat Tillman's family, did they? Which was that? Mistake? Bad information? Protocol? or PR propaganda lie?

[LOL]

Fred

You realize the Iraq Study Group has claimed that the military has put false information out about Iraq?

[Phoenix]

I think 'Nowinger' is YYY.

Has to be. He talks just like YYY - very reasonable at times, very thorough, extremely insistent on answering/addressing all questions/challenges put to him, knows about the stuff he says even if it's from his point of view, and he's got stamina.

I'm glad.

Nowinger/YYY, you make a lot of sense, but the second you use sweeping generalizations, you lose. Just as any rightwinger would. You said in a comment above that 'so what...no one would believe you.." Same with us. We all talk and talk and no one listens. It's pretty sad stuff when hatred for a man supersedes good debate. I talked about the man, Bush, and you came back with a blistering list of talking points with no thought to the man. Show some discernment when you write - or at least appreciate the point someone else is trying to make in the present without coming back and beating that point to death with bits of history that you pick and choose to make a point.

I always hope for a sign of optimism from the left who comment here, and most of you tend to give little hints every now and then that you're not all about Bush-hating..... but those little bursts of elucidation for objectivity disappear in the next comment. I'm slow, I guess. I see the same thing on other blogs - the hatred from the left is truly something to see. Scary stuff.

If you aren't YYY, Nowinger, you disappointed me on this one for a minute.

[Fred Beloit]

The old joke, we've never seen yyy and nowinger in the same place at the same time. Yes, there are times when the light shines for no/y. It is almost as if the little devil on the shoulder doesn't like this and retakes control by coming right back with the over-long 2004 Dem talking points list.