Cho Seung-Hui Referred To Counseling

Before everyone gets the idea of starting to collect our guns over this terrible tragedy, I'd rather see what it was that caused the VA Tech shooter to be referred to counseling. Also see below for a bit on the Ismail Ax item regarding writing on Cho's arm.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

I think we may know the outcome now. And like it or not, the privacy of many innocent people who believe in the 2nd Amendment is just a bit more important than Cho Seung-Hui's right now. Having taken a few creative writing classes in my time, I've seen people write some bizarre material without being referred for counseling over it. It sounds as though we may have to re-visit more than gun laws and campus security issues to examine ineffective processes we may be able to correct.

Cho is said to have had "Ismail Ax" in red on his arm. I see some have found this place - doesn't look like anything. Either it's a tag - or maybe he fancied himself the son of Ibrahim. You'll understand the tale if you read on down at link. Eventually it leads to the slaughtering of the sheep to mark the beginning of Eid. See last section - Zamzam. You may relate to the initial item as Abraham and his son.

He left his father after he lost hope to convert him to the right path, and directed his efforts towards the people of the town, but they rejected his call and threatened him. By Allah, he said, I shall plot a plan to destroy their idols. He knew that a big celebration was coming soon, where everybody would leave town for a big feast on the riverbank. After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left.... (scroll) Allah blesses Ibrahim with a son to become a prophet (They called him Ismail)

More likely it was just the weird scribblings of a deranged mind, perhaps trying to play terrorist. But who knows?

Hot Air and Gateway Pundit have plenty to read on the shooter and, more importantly, the victims. Memeorandum is always helpful, too.

Comments

[Misc]

Good overview. Perhaps Cho, as an English major, had a thing for "Moby Dick" (the narrator's name was "Ishamel").

[Kelvin]

It's amazing how anyone can get a gun in America seemingly on demand. Charlton Heston and his cold, dead senile hands must be exceptionally proud.

[Hard Right]

He was disturbed....umm yeah, I'd say so.

[Hard Right]

Kelvin, it's amazing how big a coward and POS you are.

[Kelvin]

Settle down, redneck. Why not do some work or something.

[Dan Riehl]

"It's amazing how anyone can get a gun in America seemingly on demand"

Yes, it's a wonderful part of America. Too bad VaTech has a rule prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying one there. It may have saved many lives. As it is, only the bad guy had a gun - and the cops, who were too late.

[southdakotaboy]

If it does turn out that this guy was a recent convert to islam and the media andpolice tried to cover it up there will be hell to pay. If this kid was a timebomb waiting to go off and the school knew about it people are going to jail.
In an earlier thread I wondered if this had some sort of pc conection about not wanting to offed people. If thats the case we need to raise hell about that to.
This thing has been handled badly from the start by all the authorities in charge and they need to get hammered for it.

[Kelvin]

Cmon, Dan. Imagine thousands of drunk college kids - with guns. Ouch.

[Hard Right]

Lol. I'm not a redneck. Why don't you stop being an asshole LBiS?

Here's a little more info.

The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.

Quoting an "investigative source," the newspaper said Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women, and that he was taking medication for depression...

[southdakotaboy]

Just got news from my mother in law that Rapid City schools are in lock down do to a student bringing a gun to school. She told me that she had heard from my sister in law that shots have been fired. I'll try and find out more.

[Phoenix]

Dan,

As an English teacher, I read the same kind of papers you mention. Shortly after Columbine, our superintendent and our principal called a meeting with our department to ask if we might pay attention to any student who wrote about abuse or violence - or anything that might suggest the student was suffering a problem. Ironically, I'd several times alerted guidance on the basis of information kids would write in essays. Guidance handled it very carefully never citing the source for the concern and couched everything in a 'casual' talk with the student so that we teachers were able to continue our vigilance. Guidance almost always depended on teachers for help as so many kids don't know how or where to ask for help. And some just refuse to ask.

I had many tragic abuse cases, but only two scary, potentially harmful cases - both kids were expelled. (Not just on my suspicions, but much depended on my input.)

It's sad that our society has become so PC that we fear minding someone else's business like what you described and what I described. But if we ignore the 'strange' 'sad' 'lonely' kids we teach, we don't give them the opportunity for help.

I don't know what college rules are, but it is law that a public school teacher must report even the slightest hint of abuse or hint of a troubled student. Time for everyone to be vigilant and not fear notifying help even if it's just on suspicion. If that teacher of Cho's ignored obvious signs of mental problems, he has a part in what happened.

[Kellie]

This theory is probably way out there, but so was this guy's insanity apparently.
Maybe he had been listening to Bob Marley songs and 'Ismail Ax' is 'I small Ax.' or '1 small Ax'

Small Axe (beginning)

"Why boasteth thyself, O evil men, playing smart and not being clever, oh no!
I say you're working iniquity to achieve vanity, yeah, if a-so a-so.
But the goodness of jah-jah i-dureth for i-ver.

"If you are the big tree, we are the small axe,
Sharpened to cut you down, ready to cut you down."

[nowinger]

Let's cut to the chase, he was an IslamOfascist, probably part of a covert Al Quaeda cell. These liberal academics who referred him to counseling are terrorist sympathizers who should go to jail.

We should also operate on the idea that the Rapid City shooting is part of a coordinated terrorist attack. We should be looking for the "asian" shooter's accomplices!!

[southdakotaboy]

Just got off the phone with both my sister in laws and here is the news. 1. Witness at Rapid City Central Highschool reported seeing a Native American man in gang colors flashing a gun just outside of the school doors at 9:45 this morning.
2. All the schools in Rapid went into lock down.
3. All schools had gaurds posted at the doors.
4. Police are clearing Central room by room and taking the students across the street to the civics center.
5. After all the students are acounted for school will be dismised.
6. Local news says no shots fired and no suspects.
7. My oldest nephew has friends at Central and they say shots were fired.
8. One sister in law says that the police do have a suspect and have them under arrest.

That all I know right now.

[Hard Right]

Is there some rule that says you lefties have to act like POS's all the time? BTW, who appointed you the Speculation Police NoBrain?

One last thing, in the last thread you said there was no reason to guess at anything-until I mentioned how I'd heard about him shooting what may have been his g/f. You took that specualtion as fact and proof the LGF folks were wrong. Now when Dan posts about how the Ismail thing MIGHT indicate a religious link, you again pretend it's ridiculous. It's way too easy to show how stupid you are NoBrain.

[nowinger]

What are you talking about? It's proof he was an IslamOfasist!! Even in the unlikely event that the so called 'Asian' wasn't part of a terrorist cell, its OBVIOUS that he was corrupted by Islam and that the true and only reason for his murderous rampage was ISLAM!! Islam is to blame. How can I be any clearer? I believe 100% there is a strong, incontrovertible link to Islam, in fact, Islam is the reason for this massacre. We need to BAN ISLAM outright and in addition to deporting all arab muslims, we need to ban all asiam muslims as well.

It has also recently come to my attention that South Korea is very anti American, so, since this shooter is allegedly an 'Asian' from South Korea, we should look strongly at curtailing immigration and visas from this rapidly anti American country. We have to protect outselves.

[Hard Right]

Sorry, but I won't let you screw up this thread too. Try refuting the point of Dan's post, or have you conceded that you can't?

[nowinger]

I'm so deeply hurt that you don't believe my epiphany is coming from the heart. The so-called "asian" was either an Islamic terrorist, part of a long term plot by the IslamOfasists, or at best, he was a single terrorist carrying out a personal jihad. Come on, a holocaust survivor was killed, what other evidence do you need? Islam is to blame. Islam should be banned. There also appearw to be a suspicious number of arab sounding names at Virginia Tech, this too should be investigated, its more evidence this was a plot beyond the alleged 'asian' shooter.

I refute nothing in Dan's post, it is strong, strong evidence that the so called asian was an IslamOfascist.

[micah]

Kellie quoted the Bob Marley song:

"If you are the big tree, we are the small axe,
Sharpened to cut you down, ready to cut you down."

What a metaphor for "America-hate"! Cho obviously felt isolated, competitive with, and alienated
by American students and culture. We've done everything we can to be "diversity sensitive" on college campuses... Is it working?

[nova]

I say he was just a mental case waiting to happen. A lone gunman. Somewhere in his room they will find a copy of Salinger's CATCHER IN THE RYE.
I wonder what Hillary's position on hand guns is?

[micah]

Nowinger: Agreed.
I won't be surprised to learn the root of Cho's hatred for the V-Tech community has a "jihadist" component. I could see that yesterday by the way the authorities were wringing their hands and unwilling to identify the basic details. Though things were unclear and developing in the early hours after the attack - their hesitancy and "humming and hawing" spoke volumes.

[southdakotaboy]

Nowinger there is diference between being a racist and being very worried about disturbing trends and pointing them out. If you can't wrap your mind around the fact that about 10% or so of the muslims world wide would like nothing better than to kill as many non-muslims as they can, well then you need to get some help.

[micah]

Al Quaeda? No.
Retribution exacted in a call "for jihad against Americans" after a bad break-up with an American woman?
Most likely.

[micah]

Happened on "Holocaust Rememberance Day".

[Hard Right]

Micah, there is no proof she was his G/F. Allegedly he had stalked some women. Maybe he flipped when he saw one of his "ladies" with a man.

[nowinger]

Only 10%? Come, come. I believe you have it backwards, 90% of the world's 1.5 billion muslims would like nothing better than to kill as many non muslims as possible. Isn't that why we must be ever vigilant against ALL muslims, even those who appear, on the surface, to be westernized, peaceful, law abiding, non jihadists? Because that's all an act to lull us into complacency? Right?

It appears now that the 'asian' really was an asian and it wasn't MSM doublespeak for arab/muslim. But we don't know what his religion was do we? I read on LGF that maybe he had been to Indonesia?? We don't know that he didn't convert to Islam now do we? Well, my understanding is that since we don't know, we are safer to assume he did convert to Islam, that his massacre was related to his conversion/fascination/belief in Islam and we should start researching his friends and family to see what kind of ties or sympathy they have to terrorists. Isn't this what you advocate? Guilty until proven innocent for muslims and arabs, to be on the safe side?

I utterly reject the idea that the police refused to release details because they were embarassed that their incompetance gave the shooter 2 more hours and a chance to kill another 30 people. That is crazy talk. They refused to release these details because of the politically correct Democratic Congress, forcing them to keep secret this asian's affininity for Islam.

I still say there are too many arab sounding names associated with Virginia Tech: witnesses, victims, neighbors. This can't be a coincidence, I think its evidence of a widespread terrorist plot and all these people need to be incarcerated until they are cleared.

Isn't this the party line?

[nowinger]

Exactly. Holocaust remembrance day and he killed a holocaust survivor. That's no coincidence!!!!!

[micah]

"They refused to release these details because of the politically correct Democratic Congress, forcing them to keep secret this asian's affininity for Islam."

My point exactly.

[micah]

Hard Right:I agree.
The "break-up" may have really happened or was only in his head. Either way, the irrational jealousy it triggered (npi) only set off his real motive: jihadist hatred of Americans.

[Roe conn]

Hello friends.i'm a talk show host on WLS AM 890 ON THE AM CHANNEL IN CHICAGO.i'm married ,but really gay.love the cock too much to give it up. i think it's funny what happend. if you want to talk to me call me at 1-313-591-8900 between 2pm and 7 pm. you crazy people. call me cause i'll laugh in your face. little bunnies.

[bloodrage bob]

and WHAT, class, WHAT do you get when 2 liberals speak to each other? well, that's an interesting question. on the one hand, in the solid, "tangible" sense, you do in fact get a "wind tunnel". very good, tommy.

but in the larger, more-ephemeral-yet-somehow-more-real sense, what you have is a situation in which meaningless words, random puffs of air are bandied about as if they had meaning. the liberals in question would owlishly insist their words are real, and serious, and worthy of due consideration. "they're serious!", they assure us.

but they're just useless hot air being emitted. they're the same as, well, as "farts". and whoever heard of a serious fart? sound...fury....zero significance.

that's right, class: "tales told by an idiot". that's what passes for liberal discourse these days.

[bloodrage bob]

more proof of this can be found through careful study of the eminent liberal "roe conn"'s contribution to the discourse.

[Hard Right]

Blood, goes to show what vermin they are. They say we are cruel and insensitive, but how many of them have extended much in the way of condolences? Instead they make fun of their deaths and try to score political points off it.

[nowinger]

Funny, I had a thought that it was a disgusting specatacle to see the wingers trying to turn the massacre of 50 college kids and professors by a fellow deranged student into part of the War on Terror. I thought it was horrible to see the wingers maligning yet again the muslims with zero evidence this guy was a muslim, in fact, with statements that he was Asian, and no evidence he was a terrorist. It looked to me like the wingers were trying to fit this tragedy into their worldview that all evils emanate from Islam and the ME.

But then I realized that he was an Ilsamic terrorist, and this was part of the war on terror, and that the wingers were doing the right and proper thing by speculating on the terrorist plot, Al Quada ties, trips to Indonesia and everything else.

[Hard Right]

Suuurre you care NoWinger. You're just soooo sincere. Remember, Karma is a nappy headed ho and your time will come.

[bloodrage bob]

this is fascinating, in a 'train-wreck' sort of way. noyyyinger's escalating, ever-more-frantic defenses of the asshole gunman.....her increasingly strident howls of fury that anyone could even THINK this incident could be somehow connected to The Religion Of Peace - never mind that muslims have already demonstrated a prediliction for bravely killing unarmed students; see: beslan - is really quite the puzzle.

in several months of observing/flapping my gums on this blog, i have *never* seen a liberal more unglued about ANYTHING.

can you tell us, noyyingerzifstamfordkelvinbobnab, can you tell us WHY you get so deeply upset at muslims being suspected of bad things? i mean besides the usual idiotic liberal dogma. no, your current unhingement goes *much* deeper than that, i suspect. woncha share it with us?

[LOL]

many groups have shown a predilection for killing unarmed students. Why are the warbloggers assuming it's a muslim? Because they secretly hope it is. So they can say "Hahha I was right, now let's nuke something!" typing it out with one hand of course.

[nowinger]

OMG, only the true haters could consider anything I have posted a "defense" of the gunman. Its a "defense" of the gunman to express skepticism about him being a muslim terrorist? LOL.

Suspecting an Asian from South Korea of being a muslim terrorist, is on its face INSANE. Saying that just because there isn't any evidence he was a muslim terrorist doesn't mean he wasn't is INSANE.

You people are the dregs of American society. That you would accuse me of "defending" this mass murderer is one more example of how deep your hate goes.

No doubt, when it is proven conclusively that he was nothing more than a deranged South Korean college student who went on a killing spree the wingers will STILL be saying it was the IslamOfascists.

This is what passes for winger logic:

Muslims have killed students before.
Students were killed in Virginia.
It must be a muslim killer.

The shooter was Asian.
Asian is code for arab/muslim.
There are Asian muslims.

The shooter was South Korean.
He might have gone to Indonenisa
He might have converted to Islam.

The wingers want it to be a muslim to prove that all their hate is justified. They don't care that there isn't a shred of evidence that the shooter was a muslim or fascinated with Islam, they have to believe it, and when their stupid racism is proven wrong, they attack anyone who called them on it and go back to whining butbutbut muslims have killed people before, so why shouldn't we assume that a South Korean college kid is a muslim terrorist, its only logical.

[bloodrage bob]

after careful consideration of the above posts, i stand by my observation of noyyyinger/LOL's (yes, *of course* i know they're the same person) "escalating, ever-more-frantic defenses of the asshole gunman."

we're talking a MAJOR psychological hotbutton here, folks. noyyyinger/LOL will of course deny this, so....you can believe them/her, or your own eyes.

[LOL]

your conspiracy theories are amusing. You have the intellect of an infant it seems. Do you need to be burped?