The Unamerican Media

As we if could expect any better from our media. Defeatist, pathetic, treasonous ... they disgust me.

Comments

[Fred Beloit]

Zif, can you look in the mirror and say, "Zif, you would have agreed with this war in the Afghan if only Bush would have sent more troops there." How about this, "Zif you want the military to quickly end this war in Iraq through decisive military action and establish peace and democracy there." No? No. You purport to believe that we can "negotiate" with those who want Muslim states with Sharia law all over the world, as if negotiating on that basis were a possibility. If no immediate peace that way, you want the Iraq war over with through immediate retreat and to hell with the Iraqis. Am I wrong?

[yyy]

Who in Iraq wants to establish Sharia law in America?

Answer: No One.

That is invented hatefilled propaganda. The arab world doesn't want to take over the United States, the terrorists didn't attack us because of our freedom but because Osama Bin Laden is a charismatic nut job who couldn't stomach the idea of US bases in his homelanda and who desires to start a war between the West and Islam. In other words, our every action outside of Afganistan has played into his lands. Bin Laden wants war, not the other billion muslims.

Who are we to decide whose religion is acceptable and whose isn't? If the muslims want to live under Sharia law then so be it, if they don't, they will change it.

[charles]

fred

unfortunately you cannot debate military strategy with someone who clearly proves thru their words has no understanding or experience with it

their ignorance of history and geography allows them to make uninformed statements that they believe backs their willfully obtuse opinions

there is 5000 years of afghan history that informs our military planners

there are 6 years of strangely skewed newspaper articles that inform the left

[yyy]

Is that why the military on the ground in Afganistan have said they feel that the Iraq war sapped resources from what they were doing???? Was that part of the 5000 years of Afgan history that informed our military planners, that these guys who fought the USSR to a freaking standstill could be defeated on the cheap?

Oh wait, they must be traitors, too.

I'm curious if any of you loonies have ever actually met or conversed with any muslims, or are too scared they've got some C4 in their briefcase?

My guess is the answer is no. None of you who think all muslims want to take over America have ever talked to, worked with, met at a party or come in any kind of contact with any muslims. Believe me, your ignorance shows.

[Phoenix]

The best weapon we have against future attacks by any number of Arab countries which would like to bring Israel and the U.S. down is a democratic ally in the Middle East. Iraq is the perfect location. The neocons analyzed the last 25 years of various attacks on us and Israel and reckoned the nuclear proliferation in the area and are taking preventive measures. Iraq is not about oil or revenge. It's all about the future.

It does not take a genius to see beyond tomorrow, but it does take the guts of a neocon to do something about it today.

[Fred Beloit]

There are numerous videos and documentaries showing Arab and other mullahs calling for all out war against infidels and establishment of Sharia Law. I guess Zif missed them all, charles. Next time I see one posted on Pajamas Media, little green footballs, or here at Dan's site I'll endeavor to call Zif's attention to it. "Invented hateful propaganda" it is not. Observed threats reported is much more descriptive.

[Fred Beloit]

Apologies yyy, I was attacking you comments not Zif's in this case.

[Fred Beloit]

BTW, yyy, I didn't know you knew so many Muslims. Having a billion birthdays to keep track of must make for a very busy schedule.

[Phoenix]

yyy,

I've been one who has challenged anyone and everyone who lumps all Muslims into one group. It is ignorant. I don't think there is a person on this blog who believes all Muslims are bad. Funny thing about religion and its fanatical elements - they sometimes take over the whole and render the good bad.

The *only* person I've ever heard even suggest we make a Muslim change his religion is Ann Coulter. No one is asking for religion change. That is not the American way no matter what side you're on. We just want to stop the threat of the radical element. A base in the Middle East is a necessity for this endeavor. We didn't ask for this.

[yyy]

Yes, they want to establish sharia law IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES!!!

Certainly there are islamic terrorists out there who want to attack the United States, the big hole in downtown NYC is evidence enough of that.

The point is that radical islam is still a minority of muslims, but it is growing, that is dangerous in the long term.

The more important point is that of radical islamic believers only very few of them want to attack the US or are in any position to do so.

Equating all arabs with terrorists is no different than equating all southerners with racists.

There is no reason for the terrorist threat to have been overblow to the point that people routinely talk about it in terms of WWIII. The only entities on the PLANET that might have a chance of waging real hot war against the United States are Russia and the EU, if they all agreed and pooled their resources, maybe the Chinese as a third. The idea that a bunch of poor, ME countries who DON"T HAVE NUKES or anything close to the kind of weaponry we possess could wage a WWIII type of war against us is madness.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh and yyy, you are good at noticing straw men, isn't yyy Phoenix? Funny yyy didn't notice nobody said anything about ALL muslims wanting to take over America.

[Fred Beloit]

I need to ask you yyy, how do you know whether a majority of Muslims wants to do A or B. I'd like to know the source if you happen to recall it.

[yyy]

Oh please, all of you routinely talk about Islam as a religion of hatred and that embedded in the religion itself is the mandate to kill or convert nonbelievers. When faced with the exact same type of my way or the high way language in The Bible, you rationalize it away. "We" know better but they don't even though you have to reach back several hundred years for any justification for your irrational fear of muslim hordes taking over the West.

Every muslim out there is a closet terrorist, CAIR are closet terrorists, George Soros is a closet terrorist.

You talk about killing Iraqi civilians like it was a computer war game that didn't involve real people. How many times has it been posted that we should carpet bomb Iran? At least one poster DOES want forced religious change to 'de-islamify' the Middle East.

So, I don't think it's a straw man, since the impression I have is from your own words.

[charles]

yyy

why do i waste time with you?

"I'm curious if any of you loonies have ever actually met or conversed with any muslims"

yes moron, and in this case i will let "loonies" stand - some are friends, some are enemies - but they outnumber all the ones you probably don't know or are too afraid to have an honest conversation with

as far as the rest of your post - you prove my statements more clearly than i possibly could

[Zifnab]

"There are numerous videos and documentaries showing Arab and other mullahs calling for all out war against infidels and establishment of Sharia Law."

And there are numerous videos and documentaries showing crazy Christians and other pastors and priests calling for a nuclear holocaust across the Middle East to bring about the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Hell, seeker's got an AK-47 primed and pumped in his woodshed, waiting for the day he can go on a Left Behind-style shooting spree in the name of the Good Shepherd.

What's your point?

"You purport to believe that we can "negotiate" with those who want Muslim states with Sharia law all over the world, as if negotiating on that basis were a possibility."

I "purport" as I've "purported" many times before, that we attacked the wrong nation. I continue to "purport" that our former Secretary of Defense couldn't war his way out of a paper bag with the combined NATO forces at his command. The Bush Administration is as incompetent on the battlefield as they are on the home front. The only thing that keeps them in power is their party's refusal to admit the colosal error they made in handing them the reigns of power.

You can chant your "peacenik" talking points until you are blue in the face, and it won't change the fact that the American Government in its current incarnation sucks at running the military. They can't arm the troops. They can't command the troops. They can't protect the troops. And they sure as hell can't provide proper medical aid for the troops once they get the troops shot.

Bush is perhaps the worst War President we've ever had. He's managed to lose not one, but two wars in the less than six years he's been in office. Bush should thank his lucky stars he came to power in a Democracy, because any other form of government would have suffered a military coup by now.

The neocons need to go back to risk and battleship. They can't handle real war.

[Fred Beloit]

yyy, you don't have to repeat your well-known feelings for the oppressed Muslims of the world. Something is finally being done about it. You should rejoice. Taliban still around but no longer in a position to oppress an entire nation. Same with Saddam. Two countries, two elections. That is real progress against oppression.

[charles]

"it won't change the fact that the American Government in its current incarnation sucks at running the military. They can't arm the troops. They can't command the troops. They can't protect the troops. And they sure as hell can't provide proper medical aid for the troops once they get the troops shot"

quoted for posterity

you have no idea what you are spouting about

you prove my previous nstatements more clearly than i possibly could

[yyy]

I have to say it's weird, you would think what with Bush having brought the GOP into disrepute, squandered both our soft power and our hard power, wasted billions, created a new hapless federal bureaucracy and destabilized the ME that most of his party would be running for cover.

I guess they have to defend him because acknowledging the level of his incompetance would be too paintful.

[Fred Beloit]

Zif, I only wish the President would have consulted you before these two wars started. You could have provided him with the exact number of troops needed in each place and given him both a strategy for victory and negotiation plans. People like you know how warfare should be conducted in the most efficient, safe and speedy manner. What a shame he didn't have your expertise.

[yyy]

The jury is still out on Iraq, I don't think democracy will take hold there. The best we can hope for is a brutal dictator that is friendly to the US and no genocide against the Sunnis. But we are along way from the best case scenrio.

Wasn't Saddam our friend back in the day, too? Funny that.

[charles]

"Wasn't Saddam our friend back in the day, too? Funny that."

well no he never was

but, since it's your contention that we created him you should be pleased that we recently un created him

[yyy]

It might have helped if Bush had listened to the generals instead of Rummy.

It might have helped if Rummy had listened to the generals instead of humiliating anyone who had a different idea.

It might have helped if they had used the first Iraq war as a blueprint for this one instead of throwing it out for Rummy's shiny new toy army.

Many, many people predicted this exact scenario. They were all dismissed as wrong, treasonous and stupid. Many experts said we went in with too few troops, they said Bremmer's plan of disbanding the army was a mistake, and on and on.

We didn't need a magic 8 ball to predict all this, just a bit of common sense and some history books.

[Fred Beloit]

It's funny, they want the best for Muslims, but when the Muslims get needed help, these guys begrudge it to them. Rid them of tyrants, help rebuild the country, get them free elections, help them train their police and military, but Zif and yyy can only say stop it, it's wrong, Bush is bad, etc, etc. I don't understand it.

[Fred Beloit]

No, Saddam was never our friend. He was doing one good thing though. He was fighting a war with Iran.

[Phoenix]

It will be a challenge to get the democratic ideal going in Iraq. No question about it. But if we can get it started and hold it for a couple of generations so that the young people can grow up unoppressed and with the mindset we have that individualism is to be honored, things will be great. A flourishing, democratic Iraq right in the middle of the ME would make the surrounding countries at risk from their own people. If it works out, it could change the face of the Middle East and liberate a lot of people from oppression. Everyone wins.

[yyy]

My recollection is that there was no organic insurgency, revolutionary movement in Iraq that was asking for our help in Iraq.

Who are we going to 'help' next? The Saudi Arabians? They're living in a very repressive regime. Oh, nope, they are our 'allies' They Egyptians? Also very repressive, torture, jailing of dissidents. Oh, nope, they are also our allies....

What a fucking joke.

[Raging_Dave]

Does anyone else find it funny when people like whywhywhy, who previously accused the US military of raping kids, murdering civilians, and acting like knuckle-dragging neandertals, suddenly begins to spout off what he thinks the military should have done? "Oh, if only Rummy had listened to the generals!" Like he actually cares?

It's all straw men, folks. Stop talking to it, and maybe it will go away. And yes, whywhywhy is now an "it".

[charles]

"My recollection is that there was no organic insurgency, revolutionary movement in Iraq that was asking for our help in Iraq."

that's some pretty faulty recollection you're putting on display there johnny

[Phoenix]

yyy,

Your debate points would be helped a lot if you'd lose the blame stuff. Rehashing history and using it as ballast against the present does not help solve anything. It's a childish 'nyah, nyah' tactic, and when you're not doing it, you make good points.

[Zifnab]

"You could have provided him with the exact number of troops needed in each place and given him both a strategy for victory and negotiation plans. People like you know how warfare should be conducted in the most efficient, safe and speedy manner. What a shame he didn't have your expertise."

Or... he could have consulted General Shinseki. What happened to Shinseki? Oh yeah, he got shitcanned.

See early statement: Couldn't war his way out of a paper bag.

"He was doing one good thing though. He was fighting a war with Iran."

Yeah, killing all those 8-year-old suicide fighters that would have made up the next generation of disaffected youth bent on overthrowing the mullahs went great.

Also, try to be less of a hate-filled blood sucking pissant next time you make a statement like that.

[yyy]

Yes, "IF" it works out. But what if it doesn't? What if the militants on both sides are biding their time until we declare a final victory and go home? What if Iraq turns into another Lebanon, a weak state preyed upon by its neighors?

The risks of failure were simply too great for this war, especially a war managed with a level of incompetance for the ages.

[Fred Beloit]

yyy, military history books may differ about a lot of things, but they have a couple of things they do agree on. Wars are almost never short, easy affairs. Wars are almost always very difficult on all involved. The plans for battles and wars almost never work out without disastrous or near disastrous and unforeseen glitches.

[yyy]

who previously accused the US military of raping kids, murdering civilians
------------------

Well, in point of fact, there is no question that several soldiers did GANG RAPE a 14 year old girl, murder her, her family and her 5 year old sister. That isn't open for debate, they have admitted it.

Also, in point of fact, several soldiers are on trial for MURDERING CIVILIANS, I believe one was found guilty of homicide. This has also been admitted, that they cut lose the suspects and shot them down in cold blood, then staged it to look like an escape attempt.

The fact that these appear to be isolated incidents doesn't change the FACT that they occured.

[Fred Beloit]

Time for you to rest Zif. You've been working too hard today. My evidence: "...killing all those 8-year-old suicide fighters..." You usually don't have to kill them. They take care of that themselves.

[Fred Beloit]

yyy, we already went through this Leftist talking point about the rape. See above.

[yyy]

I can't honestly believe that anyone with any brains at all can look at the management of the Iraqi occupation and not see it as one blunder after another. One wrong assumption after another compounded again and again. Sure, you can't predict everything, but come on? When Baghdad is looted the Secretary of Defense basically says 'shit happens'? This should have been a HUGE wake up call that we needed more troops or a different management plan. We rammed through the 'constitution' in order to have something positive for OUR OWN ELECTION CYCLE, it was done too quickly and appears to have exacerbated the religious and ethnic tensions rather than help them. We refused to admit the insurgency was an insurgency....allowing it to gather steam to a point that it could no longer be tamped down by military force alone.

Of course I could go on and on....but I think you get the point.

Even if you or anyone believes that invading Iraq was worth the risk, I don't see how the administration can be defended in how they have handled it.

[Fred Beloit]

Matter of fact I'll take my own advice. Bye all.

[seekeronos]

"Hell, seeker's got an AK-47 primed and pumped in his woodshed, waiting for the day he can go on a Left Behind-style shooting spree in the name of the Good Shepherd."

Nah, athough the AK-47 is a decent cheap weapon, I much prefer the heft of a solid 30.06 weapon.

But no, I don't dig on the (false teaching) of the Left Behind's "pre-tribulation Rapture", nor do I have any plans on doing any shooting spree. That is the terrortory (pun intended) of the Islamists.

However, I have no qualms about plugging some crazed yahoo who comes after my family or my property.

I hate to disagree with the "All Knowing Leftie-sphere Balloon of Self-Inflated Worth and Imperious Know-It-Allism"... but the here is the plain and simple Truth™:

The Truth™ is, OBL did in fact, call for the re-establishment of the Caliphate. He has called for jihad against the West (based upon the idea that infidels having bases in Saudi Arabia as an infraction and a violation of kuffar/infidels in the Holy Dar-al-Islam holy lands [not just because it was Saudi Arabia]) and agitates for the downfall of the kuffar governmetns of Europe and the USA.

The Truth™ is, that jihadist materials and videos calling for the Caliphate and Sharia Law around the world are freely and readily available on al-Youtube and al-Google Video.

The Truth™ is, Islam is a menace to global society, as it puts frightened little babies and pre-pubescent boys into suicide bomber rigs or posing them withassault rifles, hand grenades, rocket launchers and IED parts... what sort of monster of a parent allows their kid to be a part of that?

The Truth™ is, Islam educates those frightened and impressionable young children to hate Americans and Jews, that "cutting the throat of a Jew is a sublime joy unparalleled except for the scores of virgins they will receive in Bordello-Paradise".

The Truth™ is, 90% of Muslims actually think OBL is on to something, and do not in the least oppose him.

The Truth™ is, the remaining 10% of so-called "moderate" Islam are as much of a sham job as the CAIR is successfully getting us (potential) future dhimmis to embrace the "religion of intolerant peace".

The Truth™ is, the Islamic minions who are insane with jealousy at the development of the West will stop at nothing until we are in the same state of misery and subjection to the elite mullahs and clerics as they themselves are.

And I think that de-Islamification is a fair bit better than the other logical "final solution" to the problem. I'd be more than content to let them enjoy their miserable Sharia law, if only they would be content not to disrupt the planet and try to force their sick, evil, Satanically driven "religion" upon everyone else.

Islam is not a religion - it is a CULT of death, an enemy ideology bent on the ultimate destruction of the Human race. Therefore, it is incumbent on anyone who would live free to oppose this wicked cult, to thwart it at every turn, and to pray unceasingly and seek the conversion of Muslims to Christ, the removal of Islam from our land, and finally, the crippling or destruction of enemy Islamist governments until its credibility as a "religion" is destroyed.

In short, it is the tool of Mankind's greatest enemy, who is that great dragon of old, the Adversary, and indeed, Satan himself.

[charles]

yyy

the statements you have made today have put you firmly into scroll over territory

enjoy the miserable life you have created for yourself

i am done with you
buhbye

[yyy]

Awe, gee, it cuts me to the quick that a nutter like you wouldn't want to read what I write. I am soooo devastated that someone filled with hate and venom doesn't like reading facts that run counter to his nutty, hateful ideology.

Going to go cry myself a river now.

[charles]

i can't resist, this one is too easy

if you are so good at mind reading, can you guess what i'm thinking right now??

now go back to being ignored

[Raging_Dave]

"I am soooo devastated that someone filled with hate and venom doesn't like reading facts that run counter to his nutty, hateful ideology"

This from a person who has accused the US military of wholesale rape and murder, based on isolated cases where the perpetrators have already been caught and punished.

You're a hate-filled moonbat, and you add nothing to any discussion other than your own venom. Please, do the world a favor and piss off.

[Rob Kaufman]

Gee Dave, and you are a raving lunatic who does not add anything to any debate so why don't you do the world a favor and screw yourself?

[TheSpartan]

I'm guessing under Senior Superlatives Seekronos was voted "Most Likely To End Up On A Clock Tower"