As Goes Europe

So goes the American Left.

One of the most frustrating things to watch is the powerful anti-Israeli and sometimes outright anti-Semitic current that is prevalent in too much of Europe’s media.

Comments

[Buzzy]

I've been watching this too Dan, with more than a little sense of history unfolding once again before our eyes. It's the 1930's all over and in Europe and even America the liberals are going anti Semitic. The "Kapos" are even lining up to put their fellow Jews on the trains and herd them into the showers.

Nations that should certainly know better are lined up, lips pursed, to kiss fascist butt once again. Don't they know that appeasement never works with tyrants and thugs?

[seekeronos]

"Blessed are they who bless you, and cursed are they who curse you" Genesis 27:29

[Jeff]

World War 3 is coming quickly.

[scarshapedstar]

Yep. We all know that only a tiny minority of Jews are Democrats.

..............

[Darth Malice]

It still shocks me how Jews in Europe and America seem so eager to get on the cattle car.The Europeans also will be screaming for our help 15 to 20 years from now........Let em sink.

[templar knight]

"Don't they know that appeasement never works with tyrants and thugs?"

Uh, no, Buzzy, they don't know, or somehow think things will be different this time. That is why history is doomed to repeat itself. I watch it with amazement.

[Darth Malice]

Knight,the Europeans wiped out 6 million bright and shining people,and then import millions of cutthroats.Real smart.

[seekeronos]

"Yep. We all know that only a tiny minority of Jews are Democrats."

Democrat or Republican have nothing to do with it.

God has His hand directly over the descendants of His covenant people. Whether or not one belives that the modern state called "Israel" is an end-time manifestation of that covenant, God's __original__ covenant with the Jewish people stands unaltered.

And there happen to be about 4 million Jews of diverse poltics and degrees of faith in God - any nation that is wise would do well to align herself with Israel against a common enemy, that of Islam, which seeks to finish what Hitler started.

Look at any nation which has turned against Israel, or the Jewish people, and see the state they are now in:

The UK - 1.6 million, or 2.7% of the total population (constituting the _second_ largest "religion" in the UK). While 2.7% is not particularly significant, most of that is in London, with some neighbourhoods exceeding a 36% population of Muslims... not surprisingly, these Muslim districts also have some of the highest rates of crime in the UK. Per Wikipedia article, the DHL courier service refuses to make deliveries in some parts of London, citing it as more dangerous than Baghdad (where it does deliver packages).

Germany - approx. 3.2 million or about 4% of the German population follows Islam. Given the dangerously close associations between Nazism and Islamism in the 1930's (which still persist in some forms today, where some Islamists lionize Hitler's persecution of the Jews... is not another Holocaust awaiting the unsuspecting Jews and Christians living there?)

France - About 6.4% (based on French census info) of the population is Muslim, with the greatest concentration occuring in Metropolitan Paris, particularly in the public housing districts

Every so often, there seems to be some new bit of rioting connected to the militant droves of angry unemployed Muslim youths. There is little to separate a mob of ruffians and hoodlums from guerillas and terrorists, save for the armaments and "legitimacy" afforded them by the authorities; France fails herself yet again, by surrendering her sovereignty, and her supposedly "high culture" when it is finally subsumed by Islam: all of "Le Gloire de France" shall be written off from History as "Jahiliyya", or not worth remembering as it would be from the "pre-Islamic period of ignorance".

History shows that any nation which systematically and continually opposes Israel and/or the Jewish people, it will be cursed of God. I think that a part of America's blessing (in becoming a superpower, especially after 1948) is due in part to our favourable treatment of Israel and the Jews. Our continued support of Israel may well be one of the last things that keeps God from judging this nation as He has judged other nations and empires that have embraced moral relativism and general wickedness - murdering of millions of innocents, sexual perversion, and worshipping the foolishness of "Man's Thinking" rather than the Creator, Who is perfect and All-Wise.

But woe unto us, if we turn our backs on her now; if not for the above mentioned spiritual reasons, then for the slaughter and bloodletting that would befall Euro-American civilization should the Caliphate regain its ascendancy it enjoyed in the days of old.

[Zifnab]

"World War 3 is coming quickly."

Only a true conservative would cheer on a third world war.

[Darth Malice]

Seek the official numbers do not reflect that the numbers of muslims are much higher.1/3 of children in Belgium are now muslim.In 1 generation Europe will die and replaced by the caliphate.Dark days ahead!

[Darth Malice]

Z ....time is on Islams hands.We need to drop this religon of peace crap and start getting our society ready for the long war.We need to go on a war-footing.Tell the American people just to go shopping aint going to cut it.

[yyy]

Who are we at war with again? Oceania?

[Fred Beloit]

No, yyy. With people who have said clearly they want to destroy you and your society and rights. They have shown the will to bring this about at all costs. Do you deny any of this?

[Jeff]

"Only a true conservative would cheer on a third world war."

Huh? Did I miss something? I never cheered for it...

*Hurray for war!*

[Darth Malice]

I hate war,but defeat is worse.

[yyy]

Do you deny any of this?
------------------------

I deny it all. We are not 'at war' with Al Quada, an organization that did attack us, but with 'terror' a scary sounding noun that cannot ever be defeated, thus, we are at war without end, not because the Iraq war will never end, it will, one way or the other, or because Al Quada cannot be defeated, it can, it must be and it mostly has been, but because the 'war on terror' can never be won and so, will never end.

People are wrong to equate muslim/islamic distate for American and American culture/morals with terrorist attacks. They are not the same thing. The Islamic radicals are not out to destroy America society or American rights. Sure, they hate us and think we are secular and wicked and probably deserve death. But that isn't WHY they attack us. They attack us because they want us out of the ME and because they disapprove of our ME POLICIES. Why did Osamma finally take action? Because he wanted to put the US under Sharia law or couldn't take MTV anymore? No, because he couldn't stand the US military presence in Saudie Arabia.

The one country that we are 'at war' with, Iraq never tried to destroy America, American society or American rights. Saddam was a threat to his Arab and Persian neighbors, not the United States.

But the Ministry of Plenty tells you we are 'at war' and so sacrifice is essential to 'winning' the war that will never end. Convenient.

[Darth Malice]

YYY,they have said with clarity that a World-Wide Caliphate must be established.They demand we cut off Israel(little Satan)and we change our policies after killing Americans....Yea appeasement,it works.....Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton have tried it....Real success eh?

[seekeronos]

"We are not 'at war'..."

Technically, YYY is correct. We have not "declared war" as per act of Congress since 1941.

Perhaps it is high time that we call a spade a spade, and seek a legitimate, congressional declaration of war against all states that endorse Islamists/terrorist and then procede to do all in our power to destroy them.

Of course, that won't happen with this Donkey Kongress.

That said, OBL is no Saudia Arabian 'patriot'. His "patriotism' is for the Islamic "Ummah", that is, the people of the Caliphate. He feels justified for his actions in that the infidel (us) is in the holy lands of the Mussulmen (S.A.) and the middle east in general.

Underlying all of that is all that oil buried underneath S.A... which the world needs in order to continue to survive in its present economic state.

Unfortunately, it may well be too late to crash-course research alternative power to suddenly "throw off the yoke" of S.A. oil dependence.

Although, if I were Bush, I'd also invoke an Executive Order to authorize and automatically approve all tabled nuclear plant development, and get to building as many new reactors as possible.

[yyy]

I never said any terrorists should be appeased. What I said was that it is important to understand the MOTIVES of the terrorists and that their MOTIVES for attacking America and Americans were not about taking over the country in order to force Americans to live under Sharia but were a response, however criminal and repugnant, to our foreign policy.

Who is "they" and where did "they" say it?

[Darth Malice]

YYY,Al Quaeda has stated this.So you seem to be saying our policies justify terror attacks.....Thanks for clearing that up for me.Now I have insight to our great Dem Party and it's thinking..

[yyy]

Hmm, I say "I never said any terrorist should be appeased" and you write that I SEEM TO BE SAYING 'our policies justify terror attacks'

Could you explain your logic in believing something that is the exact opposite of what I did write?

I'm still waiting on who "they" are and what "they" said about taking over American society.

I highly doubt you have ever read anything Osama Bin Laden ever wrote or said or understanding anything at all about his actual motiviations for Al Quada and the WTC attacks.

Why let the reality of Bin Laden's plan intrude on your fantasy.

[Darth Malice]

Bin Laden has been talking about the caliphate for years.He also know a big part of the West will submit,hence the Dem Party.This stuff is no secret.

[Capitalist Infidel]

I pray that not all democrats are as stupid as yyy!!! My God, we all know that the Islamists fight to bring about the Caliphate. Please, oh please someone tell me most people are smart enough to know that the attacks against us and our interests have nothing to do with our foreign policy.

[yyy]

Like I said, it's clear you nuts get your information from the Ministry of Truth and have never read anything that has actually come from Bin Laden or Al Quada...you people don't even know what the Caliphate is.

[Zifnab]

I hear one is going to spring up in Belgium because of too many Muslim babies. Or something.

[seekeronos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

Caliphate: (noun) Derived from the Arabic "Khilaafah". An Islamic state headed by a Caliph, who may or may not be of direct lineal descent from Mohammed or his relative, Ali (in Shi'ite tradition). Also, the name for the Islamic Ummah, or global Islamic nation.

As a political entity, it has ceased to exist in modern times (terminating with the demise of the Ottoman Empire, which was broken up in the aftermath of WW1), and were typically lead by a Caliph.

Caliphs often assume the title of "Commander of the Faithful (muslims)" or "Ameer al-Mumineen", and have enjoyed a status of a ruler with powers similar in scope and authority to that of a emperor and a pope, although his spiritual oversight was far less reaching than that of a pope over Catholics.

Most Muslims share a desire to revive the Caliphate, especailly one which would unify the many disparate Islamic nations of the world, and to properly put the Kuffar in their place.

[yyy]

Most Muslims share a desire to revive the Caliphate, especailly one which would unify the many disparate Islamic nations of the world, and to properly put the Kuffar in their place.

----------------------------------------------------

It would seem then, that reviving the Caliphate is about pan-arabism, not terrorism, certainly not bringing the US under Sharia law.

[seekeronos]

Unification, fine...

...but "putting the kuffar in their place" means the conquest of the Dar-al Harb (non-Islamic world) until all is under Allah.

Y'all should pick up a Koran and read thru it... some pretty hairy evil stuff in there.

[yyy]

We've been down that road before, there is some pretty hairy evil stuff in The Bible too if you are willing to honestly read what is written there and not cop out with the 'we flawed humans can't understand the true nature of god so it just seems like god endorses genocide, rape, slavery and other atrocities' in the bible.

It may simply be that the monotheistic, messianic religious traditions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity are not what they are cracked up to be. One the surface, and maybe at the most abstract level, they represented a leap in understanding the oneness of the univerise..one god, but practically speaking the 'one messianic god' theory made everything BUT the abstract god open to exploitation, when the mountains, earth, streams, springs, seasons, animals were divested of their own unique 'magic' and holiness' they became as nothing.

[bloodrage bob]

samo samo. the concerned, caring liberal tells us that the halfwit barbarians responsible for killing 3000 of her countrymen need to have their "motives" analyzed, and that the stone-age pseudoreligion that egged them on is, really, no worse than the religions that drive the engines of western civilization.

never mind the fact they killed americans. never mind they're still trying to do so. never mind the dead kids at the beslan school. or the systematic, brutal attacks on women, gays, and non-islamites in their countries. none of that **matters**.

no fact that anyone can say, nor any argument no matter how brilliant will override the programming the liberals received from their dogmatic teachers, back in school. to them, all that matters is that the pigs of islam aren't western. that makes them *better* than us, and immune to any criticism.

you're wasting your breath arguing with the liberals, folks. they're as brainwashed as the psychotic islamites they so earnestly defend.

[seekeronos]

"...so it just seems like god endorses genocide, rape, slavery and other atrocities"

Oh this again. I think I've beaten this into the ground already, but let's review ---

Genocide: Yes, God commanded the nation of Israel during a specific period of time (from approx. 3400 BC -- 2900 BC) to conduct various wars of genocide against some surrounding peoples who (not unlike Israel's present situation) sought to destroy Israel, or corrupt it with wicked, deviant practices.

-- Justification: God commanded it, and in each instance, set specific limits on what the Israelitees were to do. At no time beyond those speficia instances does God command active genocidal warfare; it is completed and no longer binding upon either Jew or Gentile. In the books pf Ezra and Nehemiah can be found general directions concerning the waging of defensive warfare, which is primarily concerned with the defense of one's homelands.

Rape & Slavery: Undoubtedly, these happened. Rape of female civilians, and especially female combatants, is often an expected consequence of war.

But I don't think that God _commanded_ the Israelites to rape: such is not in keeping with God's spirit. Rather, the Israelites were commanded to "take in" those captured women (if they felt a desire for them). The standing convention would be marriage or concubinage(polygamy was acceptable at that time) to provide a place for them (being that the Israelites would have decimated the male and elder female populations as mentioned above).

As for slavery, I think I've mentioned in one of these threads that few people - Christian or otherwise - had much of a problem with slavery until the mid-19th century. And, it was largely the Christians who first realized that "there must be a better way".

Although the Bible (New Testament incl.) exhorts slaves to obey their masters, and for masters to treat their slaves well, knowing that they too, have a Master who is Lord of All... an example is given of the disciple Philemon, who was exhorted by Paul to free his slave, Onesimus, so that he could minister to Paul in his travels.

The ultimate release from slavery comes in the N.T. where Jesus makes us free from sin... although we are free from sin, we are still connected to this physical carcass until the Lord calls us home.

I'm summing this up shortly (since I expounded upon it elsewhere in great detail) - but contrast a truly Christian view of human relations to that of the Islamic view:

Islam calls for continual warfare against kufaar (unbelievers) until all are converted to Islam.

Islam keeps its women in a manner utterly deplorable to Western/Enlightened standards.

Islam, in some quarters (Sudan/Angola) still practices the slave trade.

Islam has rules concerning rape that practically paint the woman as the guilty one, regardless of her innocence. If a Muslimah is raped, it is her fault for being "uncovered meat".

And these are not isolated incidents of whackiness or reprobate behaviour like David Koresh or some other moonbat cult; this IS the mainstream of Islam.

Concerning the impersonal/Desitic/Shinto/Buddha/Great Spirit entity that some folks wish for:

Hey, I'd be all for that, if I had no promise of a personal Saviour who is interested in my very life, and such a great God and Saviour who personally died for me.

But Jesus is in fact, The Son of God, born of a virgin, who grew to manhood, having been tempted in all ways but without sin, and offered up as the final sacrifice to take away the sin of the world for all time.

And He rose again in fulfilment of Scripture, that we all might become partakers of His grace.

If it were not for that, then I'd be hearing you on the whole "monotheism is for the birds" bit. But Christ died for me, and all humans as well, and I am compelled to share that gift with as many folks as I can.

The difference is that the Gospel I know is spread abroad by the power of God's Holy Spirit, and through the testimony of His believers.

Not by the point of a sword or gun, as some Islamists would with their "Dawaah".

[yyy]

And there's a big part of the problem. Osama Bin Laden isn't a half wit barbarian, only a fucking moron would say so...I hope you aren't implying that any halfwit barbarian would be able to destroy the premier symbol of American capitalism, the World Trade Center, without even getting caught????????

Bin Laden is a well educated very intelligent, very strategic, very, very dangerous ideological zealot who desires to ignite a war between the West and Islam in order to 'prove' to his countrymen that the West is indeed evil and desirous of killing Muslims and must be destroyed. He is willing to do whatever it takes to get it started.

Again, only a total MORON wouldn't understand that its easier to destroy an emey whose motives you understand than an enemy whbose motives are a mystery to you.

Of course, rationality and the real world don't play much role in the flatearther's view of life. It's so much easier to chant kill the barbarian hordes over and over again while sitting at the computer.

[yyy]

But Jesus is in fact, The Son of God, born of a virgin, who grew to manhood, having been tempted in all ways but without sin, and offered up as the final sacrifice to take away the sin of the world for all time.

---------------------------------------------------

With all due respect, I just don't believe that is true. I don't think Jesus ever said he was born of a virgin. I believe that Jesus was a prophet and that he was in tune with a higher power. I also very much believe that much of what Christ said has been totally misunderstood, misconstrued and his more radical messages have been watered down. He spoke in parable and allegory, a lot more like a buddist than a jew, matter of fact. I think it is highly possible that he could heal the sick and work other miracles, even that Mary and the apostles really saw Jesus spirit after he died. I do not believe he re animinated his corpse as tradition says he did.

Having read a number of the so called gnostic gospels I no longer believe mainstream christianity...catholic, baptist, methodist, evangelical, anything...is even close to what Christ's real message was, which in my humble opinion was a lot closer to a buddist message...living right for its own sake, not hurting other people, not passing judgement, knowing that god is everywhere and in every person...than the message that most christians and christian churches preach.

My father's house has many rooms, who are we to say that isn't just another way of saying there are many paths to enlightenment?

[templar knight]

Well, yyy, at least you believe in something. And seek, that was very well done. And the moral eqivalency of the Left never ceases to amaze me, no matter how many times I see it.

[Capitalist Infidel]

To think this country is full of idiots like yyy is depressing. As all clear thinking individuals know bin Laden's terrorism is all based on bringing about the next Caliphate. How can someone with so little knowledge like yyy even attempt to discuss this topic?

The recent attacks fit bin Laden's strategic goal of ensuring "the pious Caliphate will start from Afghanistan."

http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369732

"Al-Qa'ida's goal is to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs." Bin Laden has stated that the only way to establish the Caliphate is by force. Al-Qa'ida's goal, therefore, is to overthrow nearly all Muslim governments, which are viewed as corrupt, to drive Western influence from those countries, and eventually to abolish state boundaries."

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

"BIN LADEN: "These attacks took off the skin of the American wolf and they have been left standing in their filthy, naked reality. Thus the whole World awoke from its sleep and the Muslims realized the importance of the belief of loving and hating for the sake of Allah; the ties of brotherhood between the Muslims have become stronger, which is a very good sign and a great step towards the unity of Muslims and establishing the Righteous Islamic Khilafah insha-Allah." (Translation Of Purported Bin Laden Audio Message, Posted On Islamist Site, 2/14/03)"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060905-7.html

How many more Americans are going to have to die before morons like yyy wake up?

[Buzzy]

All of which says very little to the subject of anti Semitism flowering across the globe.

There may well be many paths to enlightenment and I believe that every religion should have the absolute right to exist but with that said any religion that has a core value of the destruction of another religion and its followers must be stopped.

[yyy]

Capitalist Infidel, I suggest you read more and post less, or maybe take a reading comprehension class.

[Phoenix]

"any religion that has a core value of the destruction of another religion and its followers must be stopped."

Don't all religions preach that if you are not one of them you will go to hell? Or if not 'hell', then not heaven. What that means is that we are all going to hell. Every last one of us.

And people kill for their ineluctable trip to Hades. Stupid, stupid... Sad, mostly.

[seekeronos]

That some form of the concept and/or reality of Hell, or exclusion from Paradise/Heaven is taught in nearly all religious traditions, is noteworthy. There must be some kind of "Hell meme" that is written into our collective human-racial memory, as well as that which clearly sees the Divine Essence woven into the fabric of all life.

Hell is mankind's just reward for his sin. Much argument is made of God as a cruel master who sits up in heaven watching us writhe and then die off in misery, but truthfully:

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11, KJV)

God wants us to repent and turn to Him; our continual anguish, suffering and misery on earth through the ages is not wrought of God, but is the result of our own lusts, our pride, our foolishness, and our striving against the knowledge of God. How vile and darkened indeed is our heart?

Read through Romans 1:18-32 for a description of humanity's proclivity toward wickedness. >>> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:18-32;&version=9;

It is for this reason that we need a Saviour.

We humans, as a race, deserve nought but destruction: it is the very mercy of God that prolongs our lives to come to know of His mercy, whereas He would be well within His justice to destroy us at the nearest moment.

How is it that even I, when as a nine year old boy, having had no formal religious instruction at that time... I picked up a Bible, and happened to read Revelation 20:15:

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (KJV)

That one verse scared the daylights out of me, for no other reason than I could not figure out how I could get my name written in that Book.

It wasn't for nearly another 25 years that I would know for sure -- that to know Jesus as Lord and Saviour is to have your name written in that Book.

Jesus also said (in that same scary book) "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20, KJV).

Mohammed/Allah offers the sword upon your neck if you do not embrace its legalisms and overlordship; Buddha leaves you to "figure it all out by yourself", with no hope of knowing that you've achieved a correct state of karma to become a bodhisattva; Hinduism, lays out far too many paths to the Divine than can be managed. And even Judaism, while it points people much closer to God than any other religion outside of Christ, is a religion of works and the Law, which no man can perfectly fulfill, or be saved from eternal damnation.

Jesus makes it so simple:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6, KJV)

And He said:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved" (Romans 10:13)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd talk more about the so-called "gnostic gospels", but for length of space it would take here, I will detail it on another occassion.

[Phoenix]

It's what makes Christianity's pass to heaven so simple that cut my belief short. I've come a very long way since then, but it was "For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved." that did it. One can live the life of a criminal and on his death bed be saved and get into heaven? No thanks.

The point is, each religion believes it is the correct one and only path to heaven, enlightenment. That means - just as I said above - that all of us end up in hell. You are quick to point out the rigorous and almost unattainable demands of other religions and make Christianity out to be simple because while one is here on earth, one does not have to 'work' at attaining the hereafter. Some religions devalue life on earth with the promise of a divine afterlife, while others demand that you live the good life on earth in order to even get a chance at heaven.

Which religion is correct? There can only be one for any believer. There are 2.1 billion Christians, 1.2 billion Muslims, and 1.3 non-believers at the top of the list of world religions. If Christianity is the correct religion, 3.9 billion humans will burn in hell not counting those Christians who do not make it.

Religion is so mind-blowing.