Update: Sulejmen Talovic

Michelle has links on the Salt Lake City shooter, Sulejmen Talovic.

Salt Lake City is struggling to deal with an influx of immigrants, Muslim and otherwise, some due to ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. Many are said to be experiencing adjustment issues, including Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Others have been deported for misrepresenting their past.

In reading various news stories on the issues, it seems that government services are often strapped while the immigrant population has been growing by about 1,000 a year in some localities. Many immigrants adjust well, start businesses, etc. Others don't catch on that easily, fearing police and shunning assimilation.

Boise, Idaho also has a community of about 4,000 Muslims, many of whom claim to be facing issues, including discrimination. I imagine many of our less populous states now becoming home to various refugee factions are struggling in a similar way.

I am a Muslim, and the people who took my father away from me for four years, and my home away from me forever, are Orthodox Serbs. The struggles that I have experienced in my life will always be with me, but I understand that I cannot hate every Orthodox Serb I meet. Every event in my life has been a lesson, and what intolerance does is a lesson I will never forget, nor ignore.

There have been people who object to the co-existence of Muslim- Americans and the non-Muslim-Americans. Religious leaders like Franklin Graham, the Rev. Jerry Vines, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart are some to name. Their horrendous comments about Islam could cause much disarray in America, if they have not already.

Syndicated columnist Ann Coulter suggested that America "should invade their (Muslim) countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." She also suggested a "mass deportation" of Muslims from America. To many Muslim-Bosnians, that sounds all too familiar. Many Muslims are victims who fled to America for protection, only to succumb to hurtful comments and hate crimes once again.

Others are taking hold, groups are forming - a festival is planned for Spring.

Link: People from Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Bosnia and Croatia, for example, finally arrive at the Salt Lake City International Airport after waiting for years in refugee camps -- and most have experienced war trauma. Many have seen family members killed, been tortured themselves and have been forced to move from place to place, with no access to schooling.

Comments

[Darth Malice]

I support the Serbs....Milosavich may have been an animal,but sadly he was right.He correctly said the Al-Queada was backing the KLA.Clinton helped cleanse the ZChristian Serbs from Kosovo.The Serbs should be our allies.

[templar knight]

I wondered about the mall shootings in SLC, and why the media had clamped down on the reporting so quickly. So the guy is a Muslim. That may or may not have anything to do with a motive, but it explains the national media's lack of coverage. Wouldn't want to get those rednecks stirred up, now would we?

[Fred Beloit]

What we need is a new Federal organization, The Unhappy Muslim Assimilation Agency (UMAS). Naturally UMAS (not to be confused with UMASS) would have to be staffed, by bleeding hearts of course, housed, generously funded and located in every urban area of the US. They could teach newly arrived Muslims how to whine about Protestant Ministers who may express some suspicions about them, but never teach them to criticize those who abuse women, cut off helpless peoples' heads and otherwise handle themselves as seventh century barbarians. How's that sound?

[Miss Fanny]

Ain't religion grand. The perfect system where the few represent the many. And the many believe the few and disregard the intrinsic humanity that makes up all the various religions on this planet. Take any religion - remove the extremes right and left and look at the middle. Christianity is no better than any other religion. Too bad God, of whom there can be *only one*, does not come down and let the planet know which is right and which is wrong. Sure would save a lot of needless suffering. Why did he set it up so that religion is more important than the soul of every human on the planet?

[seekeronos]

"Too bad God, of whom there can be *only one*, does not come down and let the planet know which is right and which is wrong."

He already did, about 2,000 years ago in a place called Nazareth.

The thing is, very few actually believed God when He did come down in the form of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

...So, the onus is on us humans to believe and accept the testimony of what Jesus did, and believe on Him.

Lastly, Jesus was never fond of religion; and if He died and rose again for every soul (past, presernt, and future) that exists... how much more so shall we believe Him who said:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

(John 14:6, KJV)

[Miss Fanny]

I know, Seekeronos. Every religion says virtually the same thing. Which one is right?

Or, put another way: Approximately 6 billion people on the planet. Approximately 2.1 billion are Christian - within which lie many sects - ... that leaves 3.9 billion human units wrong.

How does that work?

[templar knight]

You know a man by his fruits, Miss Fanny, just as you know a religion. Very simple, really.

[Miss Fanny]

Oh. Okay. So that makes anyone who is not a Christian not worthy of God's love.

"He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." Exodus 22:20

If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed.

Makes sense. Very simple, really. Like killing all the babies in Egypt.

~~~~

My point is - what kind of god would sacrifice so many human beings. We are all humans on this planet, supposedly of god's making. What happened? Who decided who would live and who would die?

[seekeronos]

Miss Fanny:

The first thing to keep in mind when considering God's judgments (such as Egypt's first born, and other seemingly harsh things like that) is...

*God is Sovereign.*

He is the Absolute King and Master of His creation: as God, (and He has no sin) He can do whatever He feels like doing, *-because-* He is right, and we humans are .... well, in a word, wrong.

It's that whole sin and disobedience thing: when Adam fell from grace, he pretty much ruined it for of of us his children; which is why God had to send His Son to earth to redeem us back to Himself.

It may not make sense or seem just in our eyes, but since He is the highest authority, how can we hold him to account? And with what power shall we resist Him who shall judge all flesh?

When He comes in majesty at the last trumpet, and all the assembled armies of unrepentant humanity unleash thier might upon Him in a futile attempt to resist Him one last time, He will speak the Word of God, and they shall be vanquished. Not even the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA/PRC/Russia can stop Him.

Yet, God reveals Himself progressively throughout the ages. While some are disposed to thinking that He is some arbitrary "cosmic bully", consider also that He opens the door for all humankind to be saved.

The second thing I'd like you to consider, Miss Fanny... is when reading the Bible, there is an awful lot of context surrounding any given verse you use.

That quote from Exodus 22:20, to whom is it addressed? Is it addressed to the group of Semitic tribes wandering out in the desert, looking for its promised homeland... to whom the notion of worshipping a single God may well have been as foreign a concept to them as a people brought up from a land filled with idols (Egypt at the time was a polytheistic culture)?

Remember that these early Hebrews did not know the Lord; the tribal memory of the Lord through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had been diminished in the 430 years they spent in the land of Goshen toiling for thier Egyptian masters, whose gods they followed.

Was it addressed to these wandering tribesman as a judgment to execute any non-Israelites found not worshipping the Lord, or was it addressed to them to govern themselves (remembering that at that time, the Children of Israel were directly ruled by God who dwelt among them as a pillar of fire by night, and a great cloud by day - an *actual* theocracy)?

Note that I make a distinction: the so-called theocracies of Islam are technically "heirarchies", that is, they are ruled by a class of clerics, and not directly by a living god).

Or is it addressed to Christians living in modern times, whose commandments are "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and strength..." and "Love thy neighbor as thyself"...?

YET, verses like Exodus 22:20 that are left for us Christians to consider the zeal which we should have for our Lord... the *application* of it being to die to ourselves, to our fleshly desires, to die to anything that comes as a barrier between us and our relationship with God.

Therefore, to obey this verse (in the context of Jesus' gospel to us) does not require us to slaughter Muslims and Buddhists and aethists, but rather, to truly worship our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, in spirit and in truth; to obey the commands of Jesus, who compells us to preach the gospel of salvation in Him to all the ends of the earth.

I prayerfully hope that this answers your questions, Miss Fanny. :)

[Goran]

To Miss Fanny, All I heard was "BLA..BLA..BLA..I am a dirty tramp"!

[Goran]

Just kidding Miss Fanny, that's a quote from the movie with Adam Sandler. :~) You all made some good points!! But we are all doomed to hell anyways. :) Good day y'all!

[Miss Fanny]

Seekeronos,

I appreciate your time for that, and more than that, I appreciate your faith. I watch you on the blog and I am impressed with your graceful mixture of faith and logic. That is to say - one does not trump the other, and that is a great thing. You are a good example to all of us.

Thanks! :)

[King]

Ohh come one now,

The guy didn't kill those people in the mall because they were't muslim or whatever, he probably had some mental problems he could't live with, you see every day people raping others, thats not because they believe in different gods but because they have mental problems..
We can't blame Bosnians for that just because that guy killed those people. We all have different problems and we better start fixing our problems instead of somebody else's.
I think all people are the same and we all have right to believe in what we think is right.
So you people just quit blaming whole nation because of something individuals do.

[cincinnatus]

Seekeronos,

I don't believe in god or jesus or any of the outlandish stories of the bible. Why are many people afraid to see the bible and its stories for what they really are--90% fiction (I say 90% simply because there are probably some accurate factual statements in there, but not the parts about god, miracles, whales eating people and spitting them out alive, a man who puts every animal on the planet in one boat, the Earth being created in 7 days, the Earth being only 4000 year old, talking bushes, talking snakes, garden of eden, Adam and Eve, some murderous spirit klling every first born in Egypt, pillars of salt, hail to fire, water to wine, feeding thousands with a couple of fish, manna from heaven, curing disease and physical handicaps by touch, rising from the dead, angels, demons, etc., etc., ad nauseum). You can't simply ignore the absurdity of it all. Even if you could, what are you left with? I don't believe the bible has redeeming quality as a text on morality or how people can best live together. There are certainly better and more constructive books on the subject that don't contain all of the harmful stuff that's in the bible. When will people finally cast of this unnecessary and burdensome relic of the past and move forward?

[lala05]

Darth Malice:
In response to your obviously ignorant statement about Milosevic.......I guess you are a big supporter of Hitler as well, because that is exactly what Milosevic did, he murdered people because of their religion. Another thing, you might want to really catch up on your definition of "terrorism" since you clearly are trying to imply that just because this kid was muslim that he is a terrorist. First, the real terrorist here is clearly Milosevic, he terrorized his own country and the technical term for this is "state terrorism" look it up as you might learn something:)
It is so sad that you would make such an ignorant statement, so many INNOCENT people were killed by Milosevic, and not only Muslims but Christians and Serbs as well.

[Ibrahim Pelesic]

If you agree whit Milosevic, then you must agree whit Iranian president who is denying holocaust in WWII. Hitler and Milosevic had same ideas about this World. You to. Destroy or eliminate everybody who is not like you!? And this is really very scary idea about using this ideology in America. I hope, you know what's happened to Hitler and Milosevic who were world power than like America today. But, when World come together, there is not bigger power except of God. This is really scary idea, specially, because you are not only one who think like you here in America and rest of World.
Ibrahim Pelesic, Muslim from Bosnia.
P.S. Please see: "IMAGINE" www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6eRz75Uno

[Mike]

Ibrahim Pelesic:

I absolutely do not agree with any type of religion, race or other ethnic cleansing, nor I agree how former President of Serbia and Montenegro, Milosevic, use to treat his fellow Country neighbors. But, interesting facts are that every non-Muslim country that is bordering a Muslim country is in some type of conflict or war with them. And in some areas of the World it’s been this way for decades and centuries.
There is something wrong with this picture. And recently (past 20 years) almost every other night when we watch CNN or read newspaper, we see increasing numbers of Muslims self-sacrificing themselves in the name of their religion, in name of Alah.
They are killing innocent woman and children; they are killing even their own race with same religious beliefs.
How can Muslims, as a religion, as one people, stand for this? And why does not “good” side of the Muslims take some type of action against all this impeccable and unimaginable terror and evil that these people bring towards anybody on this planet. Please explain to me Ibrahim Pelesic, the PROUD Muslim from Bosnia, what is your solution. And try to avoid just expressing your hate towards Serbia and the world. Just give me an example or solution in a peaceful manner for once. It just seems a high level of Muslim majority just wants to destroy everything. I just don’t understand that, how can one live with such hate, and how can one teach their kids the same hate…When will it stop?
And Ibrahim Pelesic when you say: “But, when World come together, there is not bigger power except of God” how far will you go to prove this belief. Have you ever read Kuran? Do you know the basics of the religion? I have read both, Kuran And Bible and they both preach the same: “Do unto others as you would have them do to you”, so why is it that your religion is blowing them self up for the cause that I don’t think they even understand? (For 12 virgins???) And how come religions preaching from the Bible don’t sacrifice themselves in a name of Jesus?; Or any other religion out there, except yours…

[Mike]

Yeah, thats what I thought...Where are you now? Cat got your tongue?

[Darth Malice]

I agree with you Mike 100%. I am not saying that every other religion is perfect, but there is something wrong with Muslim religion. Their terror and killings need to be stopped. Its already happening in our Mall’s, and soon it might happen to one of us in our own neighborhoods.

[The Little Greek Woman]

Islam: An unbeliever will never be equal with a believer"

Christianity: What you have done to the least of these, you have done to me. -- Jesus Christ

Islam: Attack unbelievers and blame it on them (1300 years of Islamic history)

Christianity: When Islam attacks you defend yourself.

Islam: Wait Christianity out, and when they've ignored history, attack.

Christianity: We must be politically correct,diverse, and accepting of everyone.

Isalm: When you colonize a non-Islamic area, start demanding that all of their laws start enforcing Islamic values.

Christianity: Live and let live.

Islam: When there are enough Islamic colonists in any region, attack, kill the men, rape the women and children, and take them as slaves. -- the Q-ran.

Christianity: Turn the other cheek.

Islam: When you control the government, require non-Islamics to wear distinctive clothing, prohibit them from making a living, tax them twice their annual income, throw them in jail if they dare to speak boldly to anyone Islamic, kidnap their female children, rape them, and take them as wives, kill non-Islamics and do not get prosecuted because you're Islamic.

What a future we have here in America! Imagine Costco with no female employees, no unveiled women shoppers, no women shoppers without a male relative to escort them, and no cars parked in the parking lot by women.

[IBRAHIM PELESIC]

I am not the author of the post: TO THE LITTLE GREEK WOMAN, signed with my name on thursday, March 29. 2007 at 05:17 PM. Somebody trying to provoke me or punish me for something what I set at this Web Site earlier. I'm asking for explanation how can that happen and removing this post from Web Site. Ibrahim Pelesic . Thank You

[Gloria]

To: IBRAHIM PELESIC

You should be very ashamed of yourself! You disgust me!

[IBRAHIM PELESIC]

Gloria, whay "shuld I be ashamed of myself". I am not the author of the post: TO THE LITTLE GREEK WOMAN, signed in my name. But, somebady shud be ashamed for using my name to express his sexual instinct or instinct of self-preservation? Ewen, you, Gloria. Whay didnt't you sign your post
( Wednesday, April 04, 2007 at 01:47 PM ) using your personal name? The reason is the same why somebody (like you) using my name traying to expres his personal I.Q.
But, you are right: I am ashamed, at fact that this kinde of people, exsist at planet Earth and called them self "human beeng" IBRAHIM PELESIC.

[Gloria]

Either learn how to spell or go back to your lovely country. We don't need perverted racist pigs like you in this country. We speak and write English in U.S.A.! Tell me something, why are you here if you hate it so much?

[Ibrahims Thoughts]

Sht up A woman does not taks to me thys wey
I have nothng in my countrry. Just some relatives that I don’t even stay in toch with anymorre. I am changing in America, I am finding myself here. A Bosnian, what does that even mean. Loking at history all Bosnians didn’t even excist before Ottoman wars in Europe. I am just a sell out, my ancesostors use to be actualy Serbs but my grandgrandgrandgrand grandgranfather sold out his belief and switched from being Serbian Orhodox to converting to Mulsim religion. Serbian bloood actualy runs thru my bloood. If you don’t believe me just look under Serbs in wikpedia. I am a spit, a deaad cum, a nobody….But, in America I am somebady! I can tell people I am Bosnian and they recognze me… I feel good here and tht’s whay I am here…And sorrry I am not speling cirrectly. I am learning I am trying…Maybe my child will be somebody one day. I hope…as long as he don’t get any influence from me.