The Myth Of Jefferson's Koran

Allah thinks Ellison's shrewd political move of taking his private oath on a Thomas Jefferson owned copy of the Koran is checkmate. But not so fast. I see Allah has it in an update. But let's look at even more of the picture, while not forgetting that Jefferson owned a slave or two, as well. Is Ellison planing on swearing in on one of them, too? And if so, what religion do you think he or she would be?

Jefferson purchased the Koran as a student prior to his even taking the bar exam and after reading another book said to be prejudiced against Islam. And the notion I suspect you'll hear repeated by the MSM, that Jefferson used the Koran to gain insight into the law, appears to be pure academic speculation with a certain anti-theist sounding slant.

The article relates the interest shown by former U.S. president Thomas Jefferson in studying Islam and his reading of the Koran. On Jefferson's visit to the printing office of the Virginia Gazette in the autumn of 1765, he purchased a copy of the Qur'an, specifically, George Sale's English translation, The Koran, Commonly Called the Alcoran of Mohammed. Jefferson's purchase of the Qur'an at the time may have been inspired by his legal studies, too. The interest in natural law he developed as a student encouraged him to pursue his readings in the area as widely as possible. The standard work in the field, Frieherr von Pufendorf's Of the Law and Nature and Nations, gave readers an almost endless number of possible references to track down and thus offered Jefferson an excellent guide to further reading. Though Pufendorf's work reflects a prejudice against Islam characteristic of the time in which it was written, he nonetheless cited precedent from the Qur'an in several instances. Jefferson acquired his Qur'an not long after the injustice of the Stamp Act had forced him to question seriously the heritage of English constitutional law and to seek ultimate answers in the ideas of natural law and natural rights. Reading the Qur'an also let him continue studying the history of religion. Entries he made in his literary commonplace book about the same time he purchased Sale's Koran show that he was seeking to reconcile contradictions between history and scripture that were becoming increasingly apparent to him.

The reality is, as Allah now points out and I had planned to post via NRO, is that Jefferson waged war against Islam ... long after having read their book. And he went against his prior beliefs of a small coastal-restricted Navy in doing so.

Even after it became commonplace for the pirate captains or their crew to be renegade Europeans, it was essential that these former Christians “turn Turk” and convert to Islam before they could be accorded the honor of engagement in al-jihad fil-bahr, the holy war at sea.

In fact, the peoples of Barbary continued to consider the pirates as holy warriors even after the Barbary rulers began to allow non-religious commitments to command their strategic use of piracy. The changes that the religious institution of piracy underwent were natural, if pathological. Just as the concept of jihad is invoked by Muslim terrorists today to legitimize suicide bombings of noncombatants for political gain, so too al-jihad fil-bahr, the holy war at sea, served as the cornerstone of the Barbary states’ interaction with Christendom.

As Jefferson reported to the Continental Congress:

These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, “that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

Comments

[KH]

Jefferson’s copy of the Koran reminds us of the ecumenical influences on the natural law doctrine that he defended & that to an important degree framed American values & institutions, & of his views on religious toleration. The bitter irony that, were he alive today, this great man would be represented in the US House of Representatives by Virgil Goode is lost on nobody. Jefferson also was forced on at least one notable occasion to go to war with a Christian nation, which hardly proves that he or anyone else derogated or would be justified in derogating the Bible or Christian office-holders.

[Comte de Rochambeau with]

Mr. Riehl has been left too long alone with nothing to play with so he has
become disturbed and manic. To generate this much bullshit over nothing
is neither constructive nor instructive of anything germane to our understanding of each other or our motives. Mr. Riehl is a twit. May he enjoy the company of Mr. Beck, the well known fool. morons.

[ajacksonian]

Jefferson would not pay tribute to an area nominally held by the Ottoman Empire which saw itself as the heir to the Caliphate. The Dey of Algiers was a bit of a warlord and definitely a pirate, and extracting blackmail from Nations and harassing civilian shipping was the name of the game, back in the day.

So is the contention that the Ottoman Empire only happened to have Muslims in it? Or was it, as most people and historians view it, a Islmic based Empire ruled by a Caliph that was set to see after the affairs of the Empire? While not being all too wonderful during that era, the nominal control arrangement of Tripoli was under the Ottoman Empire. As that was the largest, coherent Islamic Empire of that era saying that Muslims living there just happened to be 'in a State' ignores that the oversight of that State was that of an Islamic Empire. Jefferson may not of cared overmuch the religion of those trying to blackmail the Union, he would not pay it and Congress set the Nation to War to end such extortion and harassment of civilian shipping.

[salvage]

If stupid were old people and oranges Dan Riehl would be Florida.

[brad]

"What you are advocating is changing the law based on nothing else except behavior. So please, name me one law ever enacted that was done so because of behavior. Please." What are you even asking, retire05? When did a law change because the behavior came not to be seen as criminal in society? As mentioned already, there's sodomy laws. Then there's race-mixing laws. Or no working on sunday laws.
Ah, but gay marriage isn't yet happening, you say. Then how about female suffrage? Your argument is bunk. N btw, stop acting like the Christian church owns marriage. The judeo-christian tradition did not invent marriage, and americans don't have to be married in a religious context for it to legally count. I think two guys kissing is icky, too, but I got over it. Your turn.
And Dan, racism is not clever. Implying Ellison's loyalties are in question because he has relations with the largest islamic organizations in the country is plain stupid. (Here's where you bury your head in the sand and say you saw pics of Ellison helping guys in CAIR tshirts carry a nuke across the mexican border. You know stuff we don't, you've been on Fox.) You should be ashamed, but you're too stupid to understand it.

[Devil's Advocate]

"How is Mr. Ellison a threat to your Christian ways? How is this evidence that America is on its way to becoming a majority Muslim country?"

Dan is just another hysterical, paranoid, racist, bigoted, authoritarian. He is also remarkably stupid and abysmally ignorant.

Note that Ellison, throughout the unpleasantless generated by the lunatic ravings of Dennis Prager, Roy Moore, and Virgil Goode, has shown restraint, grace, and class. He has also outwitted the paramoid idiots by choosing Jefferson's copy of the Koran to use in his private ceremony. It is all the more ironic since Jefferson' birth town is now part of Goode's district.

Guess who comes out ahead? The foaming-at-the mouth kooks or classy Ellison?

[Thomas Hormby]

Why not respond to the arguements put forth in the comments instead of creating a strawman? Nobody cares about CAIR. It seems your only issue is that Ellison would dare take his seat in Congress and use a Quran in his swearing in ceremony. Somehow you pulled Gay marriage and terrorism into the argument.

[john]

"So is the contention that the Ottoman Empire only happened to have Muslims in it? Or was it, as most people and historians view it, a Islmic based Empire ruled by a Caliph that was set to see after the affairs of the Empire?"

So our war for independence was a war against the Church of England, right? Everyone acknowledges that the King of England is the head of that church. That church had/has adherents around the globe and had a massive empire and armed forces to back it up. What's the difference between that and the Ottoman Empire? All monarchical heads of state were religious leaders as well. Duh.

Dan, you and your buddies in the comments really don't think very clearly.

[Brian]

"But let's look at even more of the picture, while not forgetting that Jefferson owned a slave or two, as well. Is Ellison planing on swearing in on one of them, too? And if so, what religion do you think he or she would be?"

Okay, Dan, I confess. You've stumped me. Is this an attempt to be funny, or just outright stupidity? If it's the former, it fails miserably.

Given your track record, I'm betting on the latter.

[Guy James]

Your site is an excellent bit of comic relief for me. Really, I do get a lot of laughs from your comments. Keep it up!!

[Christian]

"odd, is it not, that none of the bright-eyed hardcore kneejerk leftwing droolers currently infesting this thread wants to comment on 'mein kampf's everlasting bestseller status in the (arab)(islamic)(religion of peace) middle east?"

where did you get this little gem? From Atlas Juggs? Gates Of Vienna? Or was it some other RW bedwetter?

[TTT]

Everyone upset by Ellison's use of a Koran in his private ceremony is a witless bigot. And that definitely includes you, Mr. Riehl.

[Madame Defarge]

If Christian representatives can be sworn in using the Bible, representatives of other faiths should be able to use whatever holy book is appropriate for their religion.

[Davebo]

D.R. has the courage to say what reasonable people are secretly thinking, but can't actually say out loud, because .....

They don't want those around them to realize that they are bat shit crazy. Dan on the other hand, doesn't have to be concerned with that at this point.

[larry]

well how 'bout that. the leftwingers finally answered a direct question. ok folks! it's settled! they finally came right out & said "they'd have no problem with an arkansas cousin-marrier swearing in on 'mein kampf'."

just 2 quick points:

1) naturally, being leftists, they had to (just HAD to!) get their quick shot in at christianity ("oh yes kkk'ers are christians!") in a tone they'd *never* use towards a gracious religion of peace like islam, and

2) i don't believe them. after all the fuss they made about trent lott trying to say something nice at an old man's birthday party, their claims of tolerance towards 'mein kampf' readers is a tad suspect. although there IS the "robert byrd's ok by us!" factor....

'tis a puzzlement.

[bored]

Is Ellison planing on swearing in on one of them, too? And if so, what religion do you think he or she would be?"

i understand ellison's slave ancestors were christian, as were most slaves, forcibly converted as they were. when did your family get here, herr riehl?

[nitpicker]

Everything you ever needed to know about Dan Riehl in a single sentence: "What a bunch of clueless l-o-o-o-o-o-sers you are, as if you knew anything about logic in the first place."

Good stuff. The man's a new Socrates.

If Socrates were 13.

And liked to loiter at the local mall.

[Christian]

I repeat, where did the "Mein Kampf is a best seller in the Middle East" come from?

[ts]

What the hell are Judeo-Christian values? If, as Dan implies, he adheres to them, we must assume they are: immense ignorance, a dangerous level of nativism, homophobia and the lack of writing ability.

Why the fuck would anyone want to share those values?

[Thomas Hormby]

"1) naturally, being leftists, they had to (just HAD to!) get their quick shot in at christianity ("oh yes kkk'ers are christians!") in a tone they'd *never* use towards a gracious religion of peace like islam, and

2) i don't believe them. after all the fuss they made about trent lott trying to say something nice at an old man's birthday party, their claims of tolerance towards 'mein kampf' readers is a tad suspect. although there IS the "robert byrd's ok by us!" factor...."

You've made three errors. First, allowing people to use whatever book they want is protected speech so why should I have a problem with it? I certainly wouldn't vote for somebody who held Mein Kampf in reverence but it's his right to use the book he chooses.

Second, using the Quran is not a defense of Islam. It's just as corrupted as any other large religion, if not more so. Plenty of oddball beliefs (switching Ishmael with Isaac?). But Ellison believes in Islam so he should probably use the text that holds meaning for him.

Third, a tacit endorsement of a segregationist presidential candidate should be enough to upset anyone. It was Trent Lott's right to say it, but he has to deal with the consequences. Except for Louisiana, if a politician reveres Mein Kampf, he'll lose his next election in a landslide.

Why do you hat the constitution? Why do you think freedom of speech should only apply to a select citizenry?

[stupidBaby]

WOW.... That is AMAZINGLY STUPID. and that's coming from one who knows.
By that logic, I suppose all our Elected Officials will have to start swearing on slaves... unless they're John Adams.

[Christopher Fotos]

"I repeat, where did the "Mein Kampf is a best seller in the Middle East" come from?"

I'm having trouble making embedded hyperlinks work (I forget if Dan's blog permits all of them) so pardon the elementary non-coding--

http://www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/story/0,,1447209,00.html Mein Kampf Sales Soar in Turkey, The Guardian

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4361733.stm Similar story at BBC

http://www.answers.com/topic/mein-kampf

* Mein Kampf sells many examples in England in areas with a large Arab population [1].

* An Arabic edition of Mein Kampf has been published by Bisan publishers in Lebanon.

* Mein Kampf is sixth on the Palestinian bestseller list[2] and a bestseller in the entire Arab world [3]. (Answers.com)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F03%2F19%2Fnmein19.xml

Mein Kampf For Sale, in Arabic, The Telegraph:

Mein Kampf for sale, in Arabic

By Sean O'Neill and John Steele
Last Updated: 7:43pm GMT 18/03/2002

AN Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.

The book, Hitler's account of his life and anti-Semitic ideology written while he was in prison in the 1920s, is normally found in Britain in academic or political bookshops.

But The Telegraph found it on sale in three newsagents on Edgware Road, central London, an area with a large Arab population....

===================

Big surprise there.

Anti-Semitism is a commonplace feature of Arab and Middle East culture, excepting, usually, Israel's. Anyone who examines popular media is aware of this. Mein Kampf is just part of that fabric.

Hope the links help.

[Devil's Advocate]

What is this crap about liberals approving of "Mein Kampf"? I don't see anyone on this thread approving of "Mein Kampf". Typical paranoid kook! Make things up as you go along because you don't have a chance in hell to ever make sense.

[Devil's Advocate]

What is this crap about liberals approving of "Mein Kampf"? I don't see anyone on this thread approving of "Mein Kampf". Typical paranoid kook! Make things up as you go along because you don't have a chance in hell to ever make sense.

[Thomas Hormby]

Hard to believe that the Palestinians would be anti-semitic. Middle Eastern culture (especially where dominated by Bedouin Arabs) are comically corrupt. If it can't be explained in a conspiracy theory then don't bother explaining it. If a new initiative can't line the pockets of every level of the bureaucracy then don't bother proposing it.

That's one of the biggest reasons why we're losing in Iraq. The culture is so ill suited to economic growth and capital investments. The Palestinians and Egyptians struggle to keep the lights on while Israel builds semiconductors and advanced (nuclear?) armaments.

There are exceptions to the rule, of course. Bahrain, the UAE and Qatar are all making serious progress in building an oil-independent economy with educated citizens and clean governance.

[Thomas Hormby]

I wonder if he'll respond directly to the comments? Probably not. He'll just pull a Retire05 and bolt from the discussion after somebody calls him out.

[Jim]

I honestly cannot recall seeing someone get their ass kicked so thoroughly in the comments section of their own website. Nor have I seen the person who was getting their ass kicked try so hard to reframe the debate while the kicking gained intensity. Nor have I seen that effort so greatly increase the ass-kickery.

Dan Riehl, breaking new ground in digging deep holes.

[Jim]

"L-o-o-o-s-e-r-s."

That's the sound of a man--Dan Riehl--going down with the ship, despite having lost control of it before it ever left port.

[Dan Riehl]

That's the sound of a man--Dan Riehl--going down with the ship.

LOL No, that's the sound of a man having comment fun at the Lefty silliness here. You do realize that even the Dem leadership doesn't take you folks seriously, right? Oh, they are good at taking your money. And in return you get lip service on Iraq, on the 100 hour single House initiative that's going nowhere fast, etc.

Why shouldn't I enjoy watching you? You're always good for a laugh.

[Christian]

So what are the numbers for sales in other regions of the world? Ya know, for comparison.

And, BTW, I've read Mein Kampf(well parts of it actually), does that mean I approve of the message or I'm an anti-semite?

On a side note, Turks are not 'arabs', nor are they a muslim state. They are a secular nation that considers themselves europeans rather than middle easterners.

[Jackson]

All your sacred book crap. No matter what they swear in on, they are going to lie and screw over their constituency. Religious people of all stripes - you ruin everything in the names of your gods. We'd be best off with a good cleansing of any god from being anything but interesting sources of law. Secular nations with secular laws that permit religions of all stripes (at least law-abiding) is fine. Keep your god out of my laws and I'll keep my laws out of your church. That goes for all of you.

Jefferson's Koran? He was a deist at best - all the others should swear in on Saddam's bible - close enough.

[Dan Riehl]

On a side note, Turks are not 'arabs', nor are they a muslim state. They are a secular nation

LMAO - Educate yourself, Christian. People may start taking you seriously. Go read up on how Turkey's secular state treats any religion other than Islam before you make such foolish statements. That's one reason why they are not yet getting into the EU. And you also fail to appreciate what the ottoman empire was at the time in question. Stop wasting my bandwidth with ignorance of the facts.

[Thomas Hormby]

Arab is not the same as Muslim. Turks are Turks and most of them are secular Muslims. The majority of Muslims are not Arabs. There's a difference.

[Thomas Hormby]

"LOL No, that's the sound of a man having comment fun at the Lefty silliness here. You do realize that even the Dem leadership doesn't take you folks seriously, right? Oh, they are good at taking your money. And in return you get lip service on Iraq, on the 100 hour single House initiative that's going nowhere fast, etc.'

How is Ellison (a moderate) using a Quran an example of the Democratic leadership ignoring its liberal constituents? If it ignored its constituents then why does Nancy Pelosi support late term abortions? She's a liberal Democrat and much of the rest of them are too.

[Christian]

You're the one that needs to do some reading, especially about a fellow named Attaturk in the twenties.

Here, I'll give you a lift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attaturk

Are you saying that Turkey is like Iran?

Turkey has a secular government, end of story. BTW one of the main reasons blocking entrance into the EU was Turkey's recalcitrance to admit and apologize for the massacre of Armenians.

[Thomas Hormby]

Will you respond directly to this instead of making a strawman or reference lefty loonies, Dan Riehl?

Should specific books/works be banned in congressional swearing in ceremonies? What is so harmful in having a moderate Muslim in congress? How are Turks Arab?

Honestly, you're just flat out wrong about Turks. Racially, linguistically and culturally the Turks are radically different from Arabs. That's one of the reasons for the Arab uprisings under the Sherif of Meccah during World War I.

Their one common attribute is religous roots, but the Islam of the Sultan is radically different from the more fundamentalist Wahabbism prevalent in the Arab peninsula. In fact, Shariah law is expressly banned by the Turkish constitution.

[yyy]

Dan and his cadre can't win on the facts, why else do you think they have to twist them so much, or, more often, just hurl insults at anyone that dares to contradict them with a fact or a piece of logic.

It goes like this: Islam is a religion of hate and evil, all, repeat, all followers of Islam hate the West, are anti semites and are dedicated to destroying Western Civilization and America; we are in a death struggle with Islam and if we don't wake up and start killing the Arabs=Muslims before they kill us our society and way of life is doomed.

Every other crackpot idea, half truth and lie flows from this premise, which is unshakeable.

[Gory Rupert]

Mind-tboggling, Reihlly, that someone who has been on nationwide television multiple times as a pundit and so-called expert would use "What a bunch of clueless l-o-o-o-o-o-sers you are, as if you knew anything about logic in the first place" as the surest arrow in his quiver.

Impressive rhetorical skills.

[larry]

couldn't help but notice, thomas, in your savage thrashing of lott & louisiana - backwards redneck racists, you understand - that you somehow neglected to mention the senator who actually WAS a member of the kkk. held a leadership position, too.

why is that? you from west virginia? or is it the little "d" they put after byrd's name? could that be it?

[brad]

Well, larry, no one defends byrd's past. It'd be effing ridiculous to do so, kin to, I dunno, suggesting a segregationist candidate for president mighta shoulda won back in the day. Also, in a comment thread where Danny boy is implying muslim equals at least suspect loyalty as an attempt to keep the non-existent rhetorical points gained from calling attention to the fact that Jefferson owned slaves in addition to a koran, well, larry, the overt religious and racial bias isn't being displayed by us loooooooooooooooooser moonbats.

[Dan Riehl]

Will you respond directly to this instead of making a strawman or reference lefty loonies, Dan Riehl?

Should specific books/works be banned in congressional swearing in ceremonies?

No book is used in an official ceremony. But no book should be banned for private use. That's been my position since weeks ago when the issue became clear. Ellsion is entitled to use whatever book he chooses.

What is so harmful in having a moderate Muslim in congress?

None so far as I can tell. It would actually be very beneficial for Islam and for America. However, Ellison's relationship with CAIR, his support for the flying Imams and his seeming reluctance to openly take a strong stand against radical Islam and terrorism leaves open the question of just how moderate is he?

How are Turks Arab?

You're conflating modern Turkey for the enemiy we faced in Jefferson's time. From NRO link at top:

"Even after it became commonplace for the pirate captains or their crew to be renegade Europeans, it was essential that these former Christians “turn Turk” and convert to Islam before they could be accorded the honor of engagement in al-jihad fil-bahr, the holy war at sea"

Honestly, you're just flat out wrong about Turks.
Their one common attribute is religous roots, but the Islam of the Sultan is radically different from the more fundamentalist Wahabbism prevalent in the Arab peninsula. In fact, Shariah law is expressly banned by the Turkish constitution.

I said nothing about their embracing Sharia law. Christian said they were a secular democracy. As you can find from a little research, they do not allow Christian churches to own land and are actively discouraging their maintenance and growth in Turkey. Islam does not face that opposition. Any government which takes the formal side of one religion versus another through the enactment of law can not legitimately be called secular.

[Thomas Hormby]

Then why not pose your opposition to CAIR as opposition to CAIR rather than disgust at the use of Quran in a private ceremony? CAIR is hardly a reputable organization and Ellison recognizes that. He wasn't offered the group's endorsement (though he did accept $3,000 from two CAIR members).

When the Marines landed in Tripoli, they confronted the Barbary States, which were either independent (in the case of Morocco) or practically independent from the Sultan (Tripoli). The Ottomans were already in decline by the First Barbary War. Even if Jefferson had attacked the Ottomans head on, he would have attacked Turks (who outnumbered all other racial groups in the Ottoman Empire and still have until the mid twentieth century).

[basils]

Hey what about the ancient city of Makor? Follow history from there bubs.

[Thomas Hormby]

"couldn't help but notice, thomas, in your savage thrashing of lott & louisiana - backwards redneck racists, you understand - that you somehow neglected to mention the senator who actually WAS a member of the kkk. held a leadership position, too."

Why should I have to condemn every racist/bigoted Democrat in a post defending Trent Lott's right to an opinion (even if I don't respect it)? I didn't say that Lott was a typical bigoted Republican, just that he can say whatever he wants, but so can everybody else so he should be willing to suffer the consequences.

Byrd's just like Lott. He's entitled to express whatever opinion/belief he chooses to, but he has to deal with the consequences.

[Dan Riehl]

disgust at the use of Quran in a private ceremony?

Link please? Where have I stated such disgust, or said he shouldn't be permitted to use it after learning this was a personal and not a governmental ceremony?

It's always the same. I'm accused of creating strawmen arguments, when the Leftist thread commenters have been arguing against a strawman all along.

And you wonder why I either lose patience, or dismiss you.

[Thomas Hormby]

"If American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran."

From the letter Goode sent out to his supporters and the Charlottesville chapter of the Sierra Club that you endorsed.
http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=141404064431134&ShowArticle_ID=11041812060944420

[Dan Riehl]

"If American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office"

And your point? Unless or until Muslims demonstrate a capacity to appreciate secular democracy, I don't want them having too strong a voice in American politics. And neither do the bat shit crazy liberals that happen by here. Only a dullard thinks this is all about a silly book.

[Thomas Hormby]

If you endorse the letter then you don't want more Muslims in congress and you don't want them to use the Quran to take the oath of office.

[Dan Riehl]

If you endorse the letter then you don't want more Muslims in congress and you don't want them to use the Quran to take the oath of office.

Look asshat, what I endorse is what I say I endorse. Or should I assume because you may have voted democrat you endorse having 90 g's in your refridgerator, or once running a whore house out of your townhouse, or driving drunk into a highway barrier.

Get over it and be glad there are people willing to speak up for the American traditions that allow you to spout nonsense.

[Thomas Hormby]

I don't know why namecalling is necessary. The thing is, you seemed to have endorsed Virgil Goode's letter decrying Muslims in congress and their use of the Quran in their swearing in ceremonies. Am I wrong?