The Difference Between Left And Right

Update: I had to add this from Mike:

OK, so here Danny thinks that me pulling a pretty funny prank on Hannity – somebody I’ve practically established a professional relationship with

I don't know what's worse for Mike, if it's true, or if it's not.

Excepts of Mike Stark responding after our Reliable Sources bit:

The right side of the blogosphere is all atwitter with self-congratulatory circle-jerk posts claiming victory.

Well, NewsBusters, I’ll bite.  Eat this:

Whew!  Score one for Riehl - his eloquence and fierceness in the face of such hostile questioning is, well…  wait a second…  uhm…  it’s not…  uh…  anything at all…  Howie tried to set Danny up with a softball, but Danny couldn’t even bring his normally dishonest self to agree with the hypocritical Kurtz!

Well, here, again, Danny really has me by the short ones.  His best response was, without having any knowledge at all of what the hell he was talking about,

Still, that’s not all.  Danny’s logical circle just wouldn’t be complete without using the tragic story (all the way around) of some girl that drank too much water as part of a radio contest…  As a law student – one tasked with studying and recognizing logical fallacies – I cannot think of a more clear example of argument by non sequitur…  Danny just compared violent political rhetoric to some dolts that came up with a contest to give away a Wii…  And Danny thought it was relevant.  Ha.  Even Howie was at a loss for comment…

OK, let’s get back to the Danny kicking my ass…

OK, so here Danny thinks that me pulling a pretty funny prank on Hannity – somebody I’ve practically established a professional relationship with

This shouldn’t surprise us…  Danny’s arguments are always weak and easily refuted.

Here's the text of an email I sent him after we both posted on the issue initially and before his post above.

Mike,

Obviously we're on very different sides of the field and probably disagree on tactics - but it is a political battle, after all. While we do what we must for our respective causes, I'm sure you're also a fine guy with many friends and a nice family.

So, thanks for reaching out - good luck in the on going political battles of our time.

Dan

He's like a circus clown in floppy shoes walking through a cow pasture*. He just can't seem to keep himself from stepping in it every time.

Poor guy. I almost pity him, I really do.

*corrected from original

Comments

[TheSpartan]

Dan,
I was trying to gleen something out of this post but I just couldn't. Is there point? I watched the CNN appearance live and while Mike didn't give a stellar performance you certainly didn't do anything to help that cause. You continually brought up non-related issues and honestly the most memorable thing you had to say regarded a harmless prank.

[scarshapedstar]

Yeah, I'm baffled by this post as well.

Apparently we're supposed to notice that private correspondence often takes a more polite tone than political blog posts. What this has to do with Dan Riehl's innate superiority is anyone's guess.

[artie]

What the hell is a cow pasteur? You 28%ers are total morons.

[Patrick]

Yeah, Mike acquitted himself very well. Just keep repeating that to yourselves. He was about one minute from leaping to his feet, ripping open his shirt to reveal a Bu$HitL3r t-shirt, and screaming how Rummy time-traveled from the WTC to the Pentagon after pushing the button to bring down the Towers.

Dan, your big mistake was sending the "good luck" email. After the first big mistake of engaging this numbnut to begin with. Trying to be nice and reasonable with a ranting maniac only gets you covered with spittle.

[splashtc]

Ditto Patrick. Funny how Stark quickly excused his bad behavior. Poor jerk doesn't even realize he is a jerk. He was practicly foaming at the mouth- yes the whole world is watching me now, I love all this attention. Looked like he was going to have an orgasm at any minute.

[BinkyBoy]

Dan, this is almost as funny as you lying about CREW in October. But I'm still wondering, how do those clown shoes fit? Nice and tight? You might hurt yourself if you keep wearing them.

[Legalize]

When did accusing the left of being "foul-mouthed" and "uncivil" become the new wingnut meme? Just curious. I'm still not getting it. This Mike guy didn't come off well on television. Was his Hannity stunt mature? No. Was it representative of "liberalism" in this country? Not really, since no one but Dan and Charles Johnson seems to care about him. Was it funny? Hell yes. But that aside, what great accomplishment did Dan achieve through his performance?

He bandied about terms like "fair use," which apparently he doesn't understand; conflated a letter-writing campaign to advertisers with speech repression, while demonstrating a total lack of understanding of the first amendment; and essentially agreed with, or didn't find distressing, the calls for Pelosi's execution, and Coulter calling for the poisoning of Supreme Court Justices. To Dan, and the wingers, that is the epitome of "classy," "civil" discourse, while a sign with a bad word on it represents the end of days.

What we have here are three buffoons equally embarrassing themselves on television. Stark does this routinely; this Mike fellow at least has a grasp on the first amendment; and Dan appeared self-important, petulant, blindly partisan, hypocritical, and lacking in any substantive / objective information re the subject matter of the "discussion." Is anyone supposed to take seriously the pontificating of a man who wrings his hand over a stupid sign, calling for "civility," while ignoring all together calls for EXECUTIONS of public officials? Is that just a "civil" joke that the rest of us don't get?

Fortunately about 75% of the public gets that hacks like Dan are the real joke.

[Phoenix]

"When did accusing the left of being "foul-mouthed" and "uncivil" become the new wingnut meme?"

Try this for an example, Legalize:

````````

Terry Welch, from Florida - from his blog NITPICKER

Anonymous said...

Here's a dilemma for you... With all your honor and dignity what would you do? This test only has one question, but it's a very important one.

Please don't answer it without giving it some serious thought. By giving an honest answer you will be able to test where you stand morally.

The test features an unlikely, completely fictional situation, where you will have to make a decision one way or the other. Remember that your answer needs to be honest, yet spontaneous. Please scroll down slowly and consider each line - this is important for the test to work accurately.

You're in Florida...In Miami, to be exact. There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. You are a CNN photographer and you are in the middle of this great disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the water. Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away with it.

Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar.

Suddenly you know who it is -- it's Dan Riehl.

At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him away, forever. You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. So you can save the life of Dan Riehl, or you can shoot a Pulitzer prize winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of the world's most ignorant men.

And here's the question (please give an honest answer):

Would you select color film, or rather go with the simplicity of classic black and white?
6:57 PM

[Phoenix]

"What we have here are three buffoons equally embarrassing themselves on television. Stark does this routinely; this Mike fellow at least has a grasp on the first amendment; and Dan appeared self-important, petulant, blindly partisan, hypocritical, and lacking in any substantive / objective information re the subject matter of the "discussion."

Legalize,

You might note that 'Stark' and 'this Mike Fellow' are the same person: Mike Stark.

[Mike Stark]

Wow... I had no idea that exchanging polite emails with you committed me to a lifetime of being your fellator. I object to that.

Let's show people how I responded to your email, shall we?

Yeah,

Thanks for stepping into the fray. And I agree - we do what we need to do in order to further our respective causes. In the end, y'all win some, we win some, we disagree about who won and live to fight another day.

My only regret is that I didn't point out that my sign was the only "Fair and Balanced" report to ever see the light of day on the Fox network ;-)

Good luck to you too - well, personally, that is, not professionally :-) and I hope we have more opportunities to square off in the future. For me, though, law school just restarted today, so if I can manage it, I'm gonna hafta lower my profile till summer...

best,
Mike

Also - let's remind people how you came to be invited onto Reliable Sources - that's fair isn't it? I haven't seen that posted anywhere on your site...

And all of this after you (and NewsBusters) squealed delightedly that I hadn't responded with the vigor you expected... I respond and your response (as a "carnivorous conservative" is to whine about getting your rhetorical ass kicked)? C'mon Dan - I've seen your site. This is weak even for you...

[Legalize]

"Legalize, You might note that 'Stark' and 'this Mike Fellow' are the same person: Mike Stark."

Sorry, that was a typo.

[Dan Riehl]

"Also - let's remind people how you came to be invited onto Reliable Sources"

I did - in the email text I thanked you for reaching out. I've also been open with fellow right bloggers about it. It was nice of you. And I'd still write you a polite email and mean it, while not objecting to you posting your reply here.

It's in the game!! LOL

[Legalize]

Phoenix,

"When did accusing the left of being "foul-mouthed" and "uncivil" become the new wingnut meme?"

"Try this for an example, Legalize:"

...

I didn't ask for examples of material find offensive; we get that part - any material that mocks right wing hypocricy and specious logic is deemed "uncivil," i.e. the new meme. The qustion is, WHY is this the new meme, given that radical right wing "pundits," bloggers, and radio personalities have routinely engaged in much more offensive behavior for years; name-calling and demonization of political opponents has been their game since the beginning - you know the very sort of behavior Spocko sought to call attention to by attempting to organize an advertising boycott. Behavior that rose above the usual plain-vanilla name-calling, and to the level of calling for EXECUTIONS of public figures on the radio.

I suspect, and I think you have proved it, that this is the case because if criticism and mockery may now successfully dismissed as lacking in "civility," you can continue to avoid the substantive quetsions at play in any number of situations - in this case be Danny's gross misunderstanding of free speech and what consitutes "suppression" of that speech, and the underlying predominance of right wing hypocricy vis a vis matters of "civil discourse" in political discussion. Because if THAT is the argument, just like if Iraq is the argument, you lose summarily and completely on the merits of those arguments. You must know this; otherwise you wouldn't seek so desperately to avoid matters of substance - as I am quite sure you will continue to do.

/Regards

[seekeronos]

If this Mike Stark is the same gorilla that tried to rush George Allen in those photos on fredericksburg.com, but got shown the door like a chump... then I'd have to say that he does look like quite a silly little left wing monkey.

And if he really did a tour in the USMC, he looks like he'd be the sort of chunky chimp the drill sergeant picked on, ala "Gomer Pyle" in "Full Metal Jacket".

Ach, ad-hominoid attacks galore. :)

http://fredericksburg.com/News/Web/2006/102006/1031allen/index2_html?qstart=1

[Phoenix]

Legalize,

What? What is it, exactly, that I lose? What arguments? You and I are not in a debate, sir.

Which is not to say I would not be happy to debate you. Pick the subject.
(That is, as long as it's not math. :)

[Phoenix]

You know, putting aside all name-calling and bravado and foolishness, I have to give Mike Stark a lot of credit. He's not sitting around griping and whining in front of a computer, he is willing to admit when he messes up, and he's doing stuff at a very young age that someone older and wiser wouldn't dare do: Take a stand. I like his passion. My hat is off to him for acting on his beliefs. And in all honesty, I think as he goes through all these events he engages in for his cause, he'll smooth out and be a force for his party. That is worth approbation.

As for the TV thing - six minutes to get something out with three people to talk and one, the host, doing most of the talking? Phooey. Personally, I'd have choked and been rendered mute.

And last but not least - "Hannity Sucks Ass" is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.....especially with Mike's smiling face just beneath the sign. ha ha ha....

Mike - good luck in school. Hold on to your passion.

[Purple Avenger]

I think Stark has very firm grip on his "passion" ;->

[Legalize]

"Legalize,

What? What is it, exactly, that I lose? What arguments? You and I are not in a debate, sir.

Which is not to say I would not be happy to debate you. Pick the subject.
(That is, as long as it's not math. :)"

Forgive me; I thought your responses were initiated to justify and/or explain an answer to my inquiry. If not, I'll just wait for Dan to answer.

As for debtatable issues, I'm knee-deep in class certification. Math? There is no debate - if it can't be calculated on 10 fingers, it is not worth the effort. ;)

[splashtc]

"http://fredericksburg.com/News/Web/2006/102006/1031allen/index2_html?qstart=1 "
Great pictures seekeronos! I think I saw a little boner on one.
So-Stark is worried that KSFO talk will lead people to bad actions. Obviously he means his own bad actions. Most people know how to control themselves.

[TheSpartan]

Wow, a picture of Mike Stark being pushed around by one of Allen's goons, what a shocker. If you knew anything about Mike Stark you'd know he's very careful to NEVER be the agressor in his dealings with candidates, he never interrupts speeches, etc. He always waits for a moment where he can be civil. Sure the candidate may not like the question, but they are generally legit.

[DANEgerus]

Stark's behavior, and comments, were far worse regarding his tactics during the political campaign.

Kurtz should have taken the time to expose the little Brownshirt.

Sadly, the failure to expose him, and therefore slow him down, will lead him to ever more increasingly violent acts.

[Legalize]

"Stark's behavior, and comments, were far worse regarding his tactics during the political campaign.

Kurtz should have taken the time to expose the little Brownshirt.

Sadly, the failure to expose him, and therefore slow him down, will lead him to ever more increasingly violent acts."

Yes, how dare that foulmouthed, and uncivil lunatic seek redress of grievances by approaching his elected representative in a public place? Doesn't he know that free speech is only guaranteed to the courageous members of the right wing media who call for the execution of public figures?!

[Phoenix]

Forgive me; I thought your responses were initiated to justify and/or explain an answer to my inquiry. If not, I'll just wait for Dan to answer.

As for debtatable issues, I'm knee-deep in class certification. Math? There is no debate - if it can't be calculated on 10 fingers, it is not worth the effort. ;)

Posted by: Legalize | Tuesday, January 23, 2007 at 02:00 PM

Legalize,

Actually, I did address your inquiry, albeit in a circumspect manner. The point I was making is that the issue of 'lacking civility' cuts both ways. There is no way to point fingers at any one party (if one can use that term any more) and have it stick. The really ridiculous thing is, though, is that too many people indulge themselves overmuch when they find a free forum on a blog. You have to admit civility is a thing of the past for too many people. It's dumb. It's conquer & divide just when we need to come together because our stupid government isn't doing it for us.

And I sound like Pollyanna. :)

What are you getting your certification in? Legalizing pot? You know they'd do it if they could figure out a way to tax it. Just kidding about the certification. I trust it's not in math. duh... 1..2...4.. = 8? :)

[Mike Stark]

Hey Dan,

that last comment was pretty decent. I've enjoyed this at least at least as much as you have and reiterate that I was glad to have you opposite me on the show... and I've REALLY enjoyed the back and forth since then...

Phoenix: darn tootin! thanks for the nice words... but I might not be as young as you think ;-) 38 ugh.

[Dan Riehl]

" I've enjoyed this at least at least as much as you have and reiterate that I was glad to have you opposite me on the show... and I've REALLY enjoyed the back and forth since then..."

Same here, Mike. I don't want any genuine bad feelings over all this. It's part of why I try to keep my comments open to the Dems, only deleting for outrageous profanity if I need to. It's America and we all have a right to be heard. Ultimately our ideas live or die with what the masses decide. And the back and forth that goes on inside the little world we spar in can sometimes get us mad, or even crazed. But hopefully it's like I said - in the end It's in the game! and we're all big enough to shake hands and walk away until the next time. It almost has to be that way if you want to enjoy it and continue to play without burning, or flipping, out. Take care.

[Grandy Cee]

What would you all do if you were grabbed and dragged out of a public event? The still pictures you posted oddly stop just before Mike is brutally SLAMMED into the floor and a plate glass wall, simultaneously. Wonder what side of the political spectrum this newspaper comes down on. My recollection at the time was that the incident was widely misrepresented in the local media. Cheap approach, but so typical of the right wing tactics we have all become familiar with. Just repeat over and over that Mike "attacked" Allen maybe someday the general public will believe it. Worked against Al Gore after all. I've seen that video and Mike is very, very lucky he wasn't seriously injured or even paralyzed given the sound his skull made when he was flung against that wall/floor.