A Balanced Middle-East?

A balanced Middle-East is something of an oxymoron, but it still seems to be the buzz today. Can Saudi Arabia be used to counter Iran, allowing America to back away. Crittenden has several links up on the discussion. In my opinion, the real problem is Israel.

Even if the Saudis did take steps to stymie Iran, Iran always uses rhetoric against Israel to inflame the notorious Arab street, thus gaining support from the average Arab and or Muslim on every street in every Middle Eastern country. The ability to play that card would likely trump the Saudis, who wouldn't dare oppose Iran as it's seen as moving toward confrontation with Israel. Their own population would be screaming to bring the government down.

Corporations who outsource mission critical tasks usually don't hang around long. Countries who outsource their own security likely won't fare any better in the longer term. It's unfortunate that the strongest nation in the world with the best military is reduced to thinking about bringing about through connivance that which it would have no problem accomplishing straight out, provided it had the will.

And if it continues to lack the will to protect itself, perhaps it doesn't deserve to be around all that much longer as currently comprised.

Comments

[Carol_Herman]

Many moons ago, Bush 2 ordered Tommy Franks to take Baghdad. Got done.

But the Saudis had a "plan." To take the whole country, themselves. WIth their TERRORISM. Unleashed by the sunni's. Who refused to join the government.

SInce then? ON THEIR OWN, fighting Terror with Terror of their own, the Iraqis managed to push lots of sunni's out of their country! That's why Maliki gave Bush 2 the "stiff finger!" In no way do the Iraqis think the "Palestinian issue" should be linked to their cause.

Up ahead? I'd sell Halliburton stock, if I had any. I think Americans will be given their EXIT papers, by the Shi'a AND THE KURDS! Neither group trusts Bush, and his family shrub business at all.

You think you can stand more lies about the "Iraqi Study Group?" Go ahead. But the saudis are unraveling. And, forcing our dollar to shrink in value. (Which probably means a profit landfall for Soros.) The bastards are furious that the British banks are onto one of the Saudi "charity" games; and they're trying to shut the "best of the West" down.

So? You think America holds strong cards, now? While I don't think so. I think the Iraqis paid with their BLOOD. So they're none too sympathic now, to Bush 2's ploys. While I can assure you, Israel is NOT the enemy. And, there are NO GAINS while Bush 2 tries to use the UN, and the "saudi plan," to cause Israel to shrink (loss of the Golan, and East Jerusalem), without a real deal for PEACE.

Shot to hell? America's words of honor.

Up ahead? The price this country will pay for the saudi's attempts at running our show. We lose. Iraq will stand to create profits ahead for the Chinese. Probably. Equipped to come in, with millions of people at the ready. To help scare the pants further down the saudi's "game plans."

But fer shur? Who knows?

[Phoenix]

Ms. Herman,

Are you looking for Platonic discourse, or should we just turn in our term papers and leave?

[Doc]

Hey, cut Carol some slack. She's a CQ regular and thus well known in conservative blogdom. Surfing wouldn't be the same w/o her. Answer her nicely if you like, or just post your own point. From what I've read of her, I'd rather she was president than any nationally-known politician, that's for sure.

[Purple Avenger]

Up your meds Carol.

[old trooper]

Phoenix: turn in your paper and leave.

Purple A????: Take Your Meds and leave.

Neither one of you two have been to the middle east.
I spent 8 years there, recently. Carol is on target.

Neither one of you two have a f*ckin clue.

[K]

Saudis to counter Iran? Nope!

Saudi Arabia is large but has a small population. It lacks nationalistic and military tradition. The royal family completely runs the government. The rest of the population has no great love for them and isn't going to enlist to argue with Iran.

Iran is heavily populated, the government has shown determination for three decades. The military is stong and the people are nationalistic.

Saudi Arabia has a lot of influence because of oil money. But it is a very fragile state.

[Carol_Herman]

Wow. I'm getting name recognition. Thanks. And, as far as getting people angry, well that's part of what happens when opinions diverge.

Right now? I'm banking on the Chinese. Let me tell you why. Maliki has a problem. And, The Chinese can solve it. Bush? He just wants to protect the saudis. And, their Wahhabi brand of Islam. (Which doesn't work for the Chinese, either.)

What would 250,000 troops be to the Chinese? Easy to deploy. (While we thought their only interest would be Taiwan.) They can get their troops TO iraq. And, they know all about taking a "backwater" country into the 21st Century. Just look at China. She's the example.

What do countries first need? CANTONS. That's a Chinese invention. Reducing populations to exist within "circles." Each cirle gets protected. THE SUNNIs ARE SHIPPED OUT! That's really the crux of why America is threatening to "leave" the country with the 2nd biggest oil reserves. In other words? BUSH DIDN'T CLOSE. HE DIDN'T MAKE THE SALE. And, the Made in the USA label can be replaced by "Made In China!

Howwould this look? Well, ya gotta be capable of thinking out of the box! Maliki told Bush. NO MEETING IN FRONT OF THE KING OF JORDAN. Didn't trust THAT Sunni. Doesn't trust any of them.

And, yes, Iraq is a FREE Country. With leadership. And, it wouldn't be the first time a country had to look beyond its borders for HELP. Not "halp."

The Chinese could do it for less. And, they could do it on CREDIT. Unlike, Uncle Sugar who tried to buy his way in and connive his way out. As if WORDS don't count. And, you could just screw the Kurds, and the Shi'a,again.

Wow. I'm glad people are listening. And, thanks for the support, guys. Like the rest of you, I'm only guessing. But I didn't think this Bush would do such a thing as think it was okay to pull the rug away from Israel. (Though this summer I did suspect that Olmert knew! And, immediately danced with condi. Who dances with the UN.) And, if you've noticed Lebanon is still a caged country to syria.

Bush wants to talk to them? What's he got? No word of honor, now. What arab is gonna take what he says at "face value?"

[Buzzy]

I'll agree with a lot of what Carol posted in the first segment and choose a different path on the Chinese 2nd post.

Perhaps it's because my time in the sandbox happened was at the same time as the Iranian revolution and the Soviet's adventure in Afghanistan I understand exactly how much Russia and Putin have at stake in Iran and now in Iraq. I view Islamofascism as nothing much more than a war by proxy against the west combining socialism and Shi'a Islam. Russia isn't going to allow China to contol the Middle East's oil reserves without a fight. We're right in the middle, without a clue as usual.

[Phoenix]

Ease off fellows. That was a legit question. How does one respond to her posts? I read every one of them and am left with nothing to say because she's said so much. I don't write letters to the editors after reading op-ed pieces in the papers. I paid her a compliment on a post about human nature being left out of discourse - a topic I'm hot on - and I might as well have been talking to the wall.

I also don't see any of you guys addressing every thing she states in her lengthy posts.... hell, I never see anyone responding to her. So back off.

[Purple Avenger]

Carol is on target.

Carol issued a Dowdesque incoherent rant. If you think incoherent rants are "on target", then there's not much more to say I guess.

[Cindi]

Neither one of you two have a f*ckin clue.

Posted by: old trooper | Saturday, December 02, 2006 at 10:17 PM

fifty points on using an * in the word fucking. If you have a fucking clue troope, why not just share it and stop the sideways bullshit.

[lurker]

Bat Ye'or would probably disagree with you that the real problem is Israel. Her writings tells me that Israel was the liberation of the Jewish people from thousand years of dhimmitude. Therefore, the real problem is the Shari'a law that places Muslims above everyone else that do not believe in monotheism.

[Carol Herman]

People who "have nothing to say," are advertising themselves well. It has nothing to do with the length of my posts. They're unable to voice a simple argument on their own.

But, boy, are they ever "good at" monitoring others. What a lost cause.

How so? I don't care if you "can't figure me out." Maybe, you have language problems? Maybe, English isn't your first language. But intimidation? You think you're winning, here?

Let me be clear. President Bush is now the INCREDIBLY SHRINKING PRESIDENT!

We've had his likes in Jimmy Carter. So we've had his likes, before.

And, let me tell you this. Unlike Carter, who only lost Iran, when a better stance should have been taken; this bozo lost the entire thing.

It's not a "quagmire." It's a log jam. And, it will take (probably the Chinese, because they brought their own country up to speed these past two decades), to offer services. Not expensive Halliburton billions, either.

But real talent. And, Iraq can remain independent of syria and iran!

The Iraqis are ARABS. You're comparing religions? The Persians sat on and ruled the arabs for more centuries than you can count. Kirchener, 1898. Blew away the "whirling dervishes." THEY WON'T BE BACK!

But Iraq needs TALENT. Not gonna be delivered by our incredibly shrinking "shrub."

The rest of it? We're on our own. Some people really can "think out of the box." Others? Haven't a clue. Lots of people READ the comments. Few want to open up their viewpoints; because a few blind mice throw rocks. Aim higher.

[Phoenix]

Oh, goody! I thought you were an automaton that dropped these epistles of wisdom on about a hundred blogs every day - no matter the post. Hell, you cover everything, so if a post has a scintilla of relevance, PLUNK! - there you are.

Thanks, Ms. Herman, for alleviating the necessity I feel to defend myself from Sand Warriors who can't extricate the Kalashnykovs stuffed up their arses and who subsequently use that 'spine' to defend their moral, intellectual superiority against those of us who have no ME sand-experience and are therefore not allowed to speak. Oh,snap..

I like your snarky "not 'halped'" that you posed in direct reference to a comment I made to Doc about how the democrats are screwing themselves. I agreed and added that Webb was going to help them along with the screwing and used the old commercial of Shake 'n Bake as a metaphor for their whole bag of shaking things up to make it 'nice'. At the end of that commercial, a smarmy little kid looks at the camera and chirps in a southern dialect: "An' I halped!"

Cindi - What the fuck? You only deducted a -50 from Old trooper for being unable to say 'fucking' like a big boy? Girl, you are nicer than I. I'd make him stay after class and write it five-hundred times on the blackboard with a pedantic upbraiding to say what you mean and mean what you say. As it is, he says stuff I agree with, but if you notice, he's grouchy and usually only speaks to cut someone off at the knees with the always added caveat, "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT SO SHUT THE FUCK UP, MORON". He's also magic. He can say stuff he doesn't know anything about like, "Neither one of you two have been to the middle east." It takes magic to know that stuff. I love magic - it's all smoke and mirrors and people believing in what they *want* to believe.

[Carol_Herman]

Hey, Phoenix. It's not your blog, either.

If you're not screaming at people "to up their medications," what else do you do?

Of course, there's an old computer rule that said "dialog shuts down as soon as someone says the word 'nazi.' Back in the old days, that was the "trick, in the trick bag," to get people to stop talking.

Meanwhile? People are gonna talk up. And, it doesn't show smarts to fling about the "f" word. Done better long ago. When it was put to song. "Give me an F." Now? Go ahead. Name the person who played that tune? I used to laugh a lot, when I heard it. And, I heard it in Central Park. At a free concert. Newspaper headlines said people on the West Side were "forced to close their windows."

The internet just doesn't do the "word" justice.

[Dan Riehl]

Can't we all just re-deploy?

Carol - That the Chinese are going to intervene in Iraq is more than a stretch. Fear the yellow-man, but not in this case. They want Taiwan more than Tehran and don't need the aggravation. And while it's easy to pile on Bush, doing so isn't insight, just following the crowd. Maybe you aren't hearing the messages he's sending to the Baker camp because it doesn't fit your template. Tactics may change, again, but strategically, I doubt anything will change with Iraq, not for two years, anyway. You're misunderestimating Bush's resolve, stubborness, call it what you will. And you use the Saudis to mock, as if they are thrilled with any potential for democracy in the Middle East. Just who gave whom the middle finger there?

[Purple Avenger]

"Hey, Phoenix. It's not your blog, either."

Indeed. Courtesy suggests one post turgid screeds and rants on their own blog though and link'em. Save the bytes!

[Carol Herman]

Dan Riehl, opportunities are not a "stretch." Will the Chinese deliver? They haven't even received the first order!

But I decided that things look so log-jammed, and instead of them being HOPELESS, it would have been OBVIOUS. Iraq sits on oil wealth. But her country is BACKWARDS.

I think in the 1970's, the Chinese were in exactly the same pickle. (So I picked them, here. They've got a tested model. Where a country rises up by her own bootstraps. And, the cranes come. And, the building really begins!)

All throughout the 1980's people going to China were just AMAZED. It's growth right before your eyes.

Bush? He doesn't have a green thumb. You say in two years, I'll be surprised? I'd love to be surprised! I love it when the blossoms bloom in the desert. I'm Jewish, remember. It was quite an experience to see the Desest BLOOM. And, human beings can do this, again. (But not in gazoo.)

By the way, you can't turn around a huge carrier, at sea, on a dime. Because you can't poke a stick out of the center of the bottom of the boat, and rotate. Bush can't turn his policies around, on our ship of state, either.

You know? And, old story out of WW2. And, why Americans were different. The punchline is that men who were just soldiers, could shoot up to the top of the brass, their great ideas. (In particular,coming out of our landing in Normandy, was the problems the tanks had, "climbing over berms." The solution? A guy in the repair shop picked up metal stakes, that were garbage, and blow torched them to the front bottom of the tanks. Then? The tanks went straight. No opportunities for the germans to blow the machines apart in their soft underbelly.) Patton collected one million prisoners of war, as the germans surrended.

I'll give up on "china." Because I don't know who will leapfrog into the opportunities. Obviously, I don't want it to be the verbal-gerbil in short pants and a dinner jacket, who was formerly the mayor of Tehran.

Bush has a tough row to hoe to re-gain my respect.

[Carol Herman]

Dan Riehl, your point about Putin "not letting China intervene," is well taken

So,I've come up with another idea. What if the world doesn't want to see another world war? What if Japan and China WORKED TOGETHER. I know. I know. Old enemies.

But since I'm "not right about China, getting into Iraq, ALONE," I thought we're just not seeing opportunities clearly. We're looking towards the past.

What if China and Japan could work together, though? They've got diplomatic clout. Russia really doesn't. More countries hate Russia, especially those residing like a neckless around her curves.

HOW could Japan and China work together? Well, why not?

Japan has General Douglas MacArthur's Constitntion. And, you'd see the Iraqis NOTICING that people who were once enemies could still show up to help.

Russia? She'd mind her manners; as soon as the diplomatic picture emerged. And, the entry poiont? Maliki OWNS what he tells Bush. We just don't know what he "owns." And, yes. It's a terrible WORRY that the Iraqis, who have no love at all for the Iranians, "could" work together. Because there's a desire to drive a wedge into Saudi Arabia. And, remove them as the "honest broker" for all things arab.

Again. I'm just voicing an opinion.

I'm even gonna suggest that America wouldn't get hurt, as long as she got out of the way, now! For some reason we structure "civil wars" as a bad thing. When our own Civil War was a BLESSING.

Believe me, I am not the Oracle at Delphi. I have no idea what positions move forward. But a world at war? A superpower on the ropes? Or some old and disturbing fascist dreck, finally being given the boot?

Go ahead. Re-deploy. And, I do wish the president the best, as long as he keeps focussed on what's best for our Country. Which INCLUDES "HONEST BROKERING."

In Paul O'Niell's book, THE PRICE OF LOYALTY, he says "honest brokering" left Bush's office FIRST. And, I sure wish I knew how to "read votes" as well as Lott and Frist. But I don't. I get to wait, like all the rest of us, for this to play out.