POC

POC - Punks on Campus. I don't know who the biggest jerk is, the asshat who repeatedly gets tasered, or the would be civil rights morons crowding around.

Life was so much more simple when cops only carried night sticks. Tell me you wouldn't rap a few of these numbskulls in the head. Actually, it might do them some good. They create these pathetic situations, then cry and kavetch about their rights.

Like I said, POC. They should put him in prison, he already screams like someone's bitch. Pity to let it go to waste. From comments it looks like he's Iranian, or from somewhere in the Middle East.

Comments

[Phoenix]

That was obnoxious. I couldn't get what the guy did to get the treatment, though. Gotta love the high-tech era what with everyone holding their cell phones up to record the 'crisis' so they could rush back to their computers and put it on YouTube. That's all they cared about. Civil rights? Hunh?

[greenwing]

The background, as I understand it, is that in order to be in the campus library past 11 PM, you must have your student ID with you. He was asked to show it by library security. He didn't do it and was asked to leave. He refused to leave. Campus police were called.

The video starts at that point.

[splashtc]

Everyone acts like a moron from time to time-tasering was excessive. I'm sure this is not the first time this guy caused trouble-he should be expelled.

[heheh]

Guess he should have stood up.

[yyy]

I think the biggest jerk would be the cop that tasered him for no apparent reason..he wasn't menancing them or fighting them, just refusing to leave.

In the good old days the cops would have just dragged him out and arrested him for disorderly conduct not shocked him with enough volts of electricity to potentially kill him.

[DhimmiThis]

I nearly cried - I was laughing so hard when they popped him with the taser in the door way. He certainly screamed and jumped like a b#@ch. What kind of stubborn mule would not become compliant after that? Also, they must not have hit him with too much juice because the Tazer usually momentarily disables a person, and he was jumping around an awful lot.

However, I do not think that whether the guy "deserved it" is not the question. This is a blatant use of excessive force. The Taser or Muscular Disruption Unit (MDU) falls under the definition of Less than Lethal Force. This lands it near the top of the Force Wheel used by Police Departments across the country. While it is permissible to leap frog the tactics depending upon the situation, the officer is to use the least amount of force necessary. The MDU is rarely to be used on a handcuffed individual and are not to be used for coercion on a passively resistant prisoner. This guy is certainly guilty of being an Asshat, resisting arrest and possibly whatever the underlying charge may be. Whether the officer used more force than necessary does not change it. The lack of proper training (or professionalism in using a poor choice of words in a tense situation)was evident in the end when the officer warned the complainer in the white t-shirt that he was going to get "tazed" - while it is funny to watch these guys flop around (trust me I never tire of it) - it is also evident that the officers need to go back to the classroom.

[Ken]

I agree with the old-school approach -- knock him about the head with a night stick (I believe it was often referred to as a "wood shampoo") and the issue is settled rather quickly.

[William]

That's ok. Pelosi and Reid will soon repeal the Patriot Act. Not much you irrelevant clowns or your sad, lame duck leader can do about it.

[Phoenix]

I liked the cop chorus chanting, "Stand up! Stand up!" That was the only clear audio. But then they kept tasering the guy and knocking him down. All those cops needed were great big fat black moustaches to twiddle in between taser hits and big, hairy eyebrows to lift for the webcams to make this a YouTube winner.

(I'm for the cops, though. The guy was a screaming weenie. He needs a week of jail time with a big burly guy as cell mate.)

[Purple Avenger]

"Everyone acts like a moron from time to time"

Really?

I'm 48 years old and have yet to ever have a cop physically touch me for any reason what so ever. I must be doing something wrong in the way I run my life.

[Purple Avenger]

Cops should have cuffed his left wrist to his right ankle behind his back and walked away leaving him flopping on the floor like a fish. 10 minutes later he'd have become cooperative and be begging to leave the building ;->

[Ken C.]

Let's review: no library card. Told to leave. Talked back, began to leave. Yep, sounds like a candidate for multiple shots of near-lethal force. Add to that, studying-while-persian, and it's a no-brainer.

"I agree with the old-school approach -- knock him about the head with a night stick"

But let's not forget severe concussion. Anybody who talks back to cops deserves at least possible permanent brain damage.

"They should put him in prison, he already screams like someone's bitch."

How could I have left out anal rape? Hell, anybody who forgets their library card deserves anal rape.

"I nearly cried - I was laughing so hard when they popped him with the taser in the door way. He certainly screamed and jumped like a b#@ch."

Nothing breaks the ice at parties, I'm sure you find, like a quick tape of someone screaming in agony as cops simultaneous knock him down with tasers and demand that he stand up. Put this together with those Abu Ghraib pix, and you've got yourself a laff riot.

"He needs a week of jail time with a big burly guy as cell mate."

...and it's back to the anal rape. Or maybe you think knocking his teeth out and demanding a blowjob would be better?

"I'm 48 years old and have yet to ever have a cop physically touch me for any reason what so ever."

Well, I had some argument or other to make, but this pretty well shuts me down: there's nothing more to be said.

[Phoenix]

Hey, Pastor Ken,

You ignored the second comment on this thread.

[Ken C.]

You mean, the one that was only wrong?

[spree]

How about mentioning that this poor, innocent "disobedient" student was trying to incite a riot.

In that situation, there is a limited amount of time to handle this guy. Personally, I think the cops should be commended for avoiding a riot. Everyone seems to forget how quickly some of these spoiled brats get out of control.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/nyregion/07columbiacnd.html?ex=1163912400&en=a933bd41e3dba698&ei=5070

These children need to learn to follow the rules. Perhaps he deserved the taser and the bleeding heart liberals should try teaching their children to follow the rules, instead of pissing and moaning when someone else has to do it for them.

[LAW AND ORDER]

They should have dragged him outside and put a bullet in his head. Filth deserved what he got and more.

[larry]

am no fan of noisy collegiates - especially of the middle eastern variety - but it might be time to start taking a hard look at the cops and their (over)use of tasers. every other day, it seems, you read about some guy who got tased dying because of it. here in vegas, there've been 3 deaths so far this year alone. it seems pretty evident that the cops are waaaaay too in love with their tasers (ever seen the police station video of the pittsburgh cop tasing the grandma for not "standing up" fast enough to suit him?)(i think it was pittsburgh - might have been a suburb)

tasers pump something like 50,000 volts into a person. that's a lotta electricity running around a body. a body in which critical systems like "hearts" and "brains" run on....electricity. and when a cop decides he'd rather *tase* a loudmouth college punk for trespassing rather than remove the kid the old-fashioned way, something's wrong. tasers weren't designed/planned/sold by the cops to the public to be used on trespassers. or too-slow grannies. or uppity jaywalkers.

some fine day, a situation will arise in which a cop manages to get himself tasered to death, either by another cop (ever seen the "i'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this weapon" vid where the dea agent manfully shoots himself in the foot? it's a HOOT) or by a random citizen with a taser. then watch what happens: dead cop's estate sues the manufacturer, or - much more significantly - the citizen who fired the fatal taser gets prosecuted for killing the cop.

am pretty sure the founding fathers didn't establish this country to be a place where a paramilitary police force would have the right to commit potentially fatal assaults on its citizens, because that citizen is being a pest or has a bad attitude about cops, especially when the "crime" being committed is a misdemeanor. having read this country's founding documents, i'm also positive they've have frowned on that whole "have the cop just take him outside and execute him" thing, also. call it a hunch.

[Ken C.]

"Personally, I think the cops should be commended for avoiding a riot."

Yes, it's clear that they did everything possible to keep the situation calm and under control.

"Perhaps he deserved the taser and the bleeding heart liberals should try teaching their children to follow the rules, instead of pissing and moaning when someone else has to do it for them."

Perhaps? Hey, come on, make up your mind. Did he deserve the multiple tasering or not? What *exactly* is the appropriate penalty here? Anal rape? Brain damage? Bullet to the head?

Once you've decided that, let's hear the penalties for: underage drinking; AWOL in time of war; theft via insider trading; reckless use of firearms; multiple violations of oath of office; conspiracy to protect a pedophile; bribery and money laundering; election law violations; violation of treaties; doctor shopping to feed a drug habit; provoking a riot; calling for the assassination of presidents and Supreme Court Justices; exchanging defense contracts for houses; fraudulently voting out of district; ...what do your deeply held values about "following the rules" tell you about those? Oh wait, those are nothing compared to forgetting your library card. Never mind.

[Fred Beloit]

Something to consider just for its own sake: Splash or yyy or Wm or Ken c is attending a university in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Yemen. The cops come and ask for an ID from everyone in the Univ library. Our oh so compassionate and civil rights minded friend from the list above says, "I have no ID, but I'm not leaving, FY, Don't touch me, etc." What would then happen to that son of our soil and his civil rights?

[yyy]

Red herring.

We don't live in Iran or Soviet Russia but America where the police are constrained to use the least amount of force necessary to control a situation.

All they had to do was drag the guy outside, tasering him once was over the top, multiple times..?

The idea that he should have been taken out and summarily shot for causing a ruckus in the libary is an example of why the neocon nutjobs that have been running the country into the ground are finally OUT.

Most Americans, though they are afraid of the terrorist boogeyman, don't want to live in a fasist police state.

Sooner or later there will be enough taser deaths that the taser will no longer be used by the police as a quick way to subdue someone or teach them a lesson, geezse, they have tasered CHILRREN, little kids a 9 year old in Florida, come out, a big burley cop can't control a nine year old and he's got to put the taser to her?

The fact that people not only defend this action but go one better and want to have seen the guy beaten up, or killed is a testament to exactly what kind of people you are.

The mob looking for its next victim.

[Fred Beloit]

yyy writes:"The idea he should have been taken out and summarily shot...neocon nutjobs...terrorist boogeyman...they have tasered CHILDREN, little 9 year old...people not only defend this action but go one further and want to have seen this guy beaten up, or killed is a testament to exactly what kind of people you are...The mob is looking for its next victim." Wow, you must have just come here after spending some time on Dailykos. Of course they are only talking about what kinds of bad things they want to do to Israeli's. "All they had to do was drag the guy outside." I suppose, but all he had to do was cooperate with the police and not have gone completely apes---. Then they wouldn't have had even to put their hands on him. Speaking of red herring, and I guess I'm guilty, you introduced a number of them yourself. This post was about one incident. If I were you, though, I wouldn't go off to study in a Muslim country. A volitile responder like you might find him/herself at great risk should contact with the local police there happen. As to this incident, since our "excitable boy" is suing, no doubt our legal system will ensure justice is done. I'm going to wait to see the outcome before I decide if there is police guilt. You can decide now if you insist.

[yyy]

I can see there is police guilt from the videotape.

I can hear the other students telling the police not to taser him, I can see that he is tasered more than once, I can see they are telling him they are going to taser him if he doens't stand up for crying out loud.

People have to obey the law, when they don't they get arrested. However this doesn't give the police carte blanche to abuse you.

If I am drunk and disorderly at a bar and refuse to leave the police aren't allowed to shoot me. If I don't pay my traffic tickets I don't get sent to Riker's, I lose my license. The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, the response is supposed to fit the situation. You don't send in the swat team when the wife calls and says her husband is busting up the place, you send in the swat team when you find out he's busting up the place and has a big stash of meth, half a dozen guns and the kids are in the house and he's theatening to kill everyone.

The guy was offering passive resistance, he wasn't throwing punches or fighting them in ANY WAY, this is clear from the videotape.

Therefore, the police using the taser once is completely out of hand, more than once, after he was handcuffed and begging them to stop, is purely ridiculous and so is the defense of same.

Saying if the guy had just left none of this would have happened is failing to address the point, its like saying if the rape victim didnt' drink she wouldn't have been raped or if America had just minded its own business the WTC towers would still be standing. It is blaming the victim for the actions of others.

The POINT is excessive force and I can see with my own two eyes that excessive force was used.

[LAW AND ORDER]

No excessive force. Lots of excessive screaming. Learn to follow orders and nothing will happen to you. His defiance brought the taser on himself.

And to the person who said they should have used more old fashioned methods, think of this: 30 minutes later that bastard was sitting in a cell pondering his stupidity. Under the old ways (the billy club), he would have been in a hospital room with a concussion. Cops always try the path of least resistance. When you then resist.... you get what you deserve.

He is probably a muslim Al-Qaeda sympathizer.

[larry]

"no excessive force". really? multiple tasings for a trespasser?

it's always instructive how cops have that whole "2-sided" definition of excessive force. *touch* a cop, and it's a&b. so long as the cop doesn't *kill* the trespasser - or the too-slow granny, or the bratty 9-year-old kid - it's not excessive.

still awaiting the first cop death from tasing. then wer shall see.

[LAW AND ORDER]

Rubbish. If he left when told to leave, as the officer told him, no problem would ever have occurred. His defiance created the problem. Police would rather not have trouble. But Muslims always make trouble, and always defy reason and authority.

[Fred Beloit]

"I can see there is police guilt from the videotape" writes yyy. So a noble fighter for our civil rights sees no need for due process for police officers, only for a Muslim-American wackhead, the kind we see daily on videotape insulting us and our leaders and threatening us with death. Still, don't worry, our "excitable boy" will get his day in court. What really mystifies me though is how passionate you are about the rights of people like him and seem not to care in the least about people sitting in a library with their ID cards ready trying to do a little to improve their educations. Remember, the watchword in a library is "Ssshhh".

[yyy]

Who said anything about denying them their due process?

I can also tell you unequivocally that OJ Simpson killed his wife and he got due process and then some. John Cuey should be taken out and shot today, but he's going to get 'due process' for the next 30 years. Bin Laden is a terrorist, but should he ever be caught he will deserve a trial as well.

Innocent until proven guilty is for the courtroom, it does not prevent an intelligent person from deciding for themselves, especially when there is a videotape in evidence. It also does not prevent me or anyone from disagreeing with the verdict of any jury, whether I think the defendant got off when he's guilty or got convicted when he's innocent.

I also never said the guy should not have been escorted out of the library after he decided to cause a dustup over the Patriot Act..he most certainly should have left.

But tasering the guy 5 times and threatening to taser the ONLOOKERS is absurd,it is the definition of a police state, it is sad that so many 'conservatives' seem to hate arabs and liberals so much that they won't even condemn something that so obviously deserves condemming.

I believe this "muslim American whackhead" is a student at UCLA and as far as I know he has never been on any video threatening death for anyone, talk about gross generalizations!! in fact his whole little performance was about being unfairly targeted because he's an arab and about the Patriot Act, he wasn't shouting death to Bush long live Osama, I mean, he's a college student.

When you don't have your ID in a place you are supposed to, it is within the discretion of the authorities to ask you to leave, whether they picked him to card because he's an arab, don't know.

When instead of leaving, you make a big fuss, the authorities are likewise within their discretion to call police to remove you.

However, when you are not threatening anyone, harming anyone, doing anything but making a political statement and acting like a brat, being tasered five times is use of excessive force.

I can virtually guarantee you that UCLA will be rewriting the rules on use of taser after this incident to remove the discretion police have in using tasers on people that do not represent a threat to police, themselves or anyone else becuase this incident shows that in fact the police were not able to use this discretion appropriately.

If I get stopped for speeding and mouth off to the cop about why isn't he spending his time looking for violent criminals and start to argue with him about the constitutionality of speed traps and then decide I don't want to give him my driver's license [which of course used to be a right in America NOT to show ID, but no longer] I don't deserve to be dragged out of my car and tasered.

It is the responsibility of the police to use appropriate force, not to escalate a situation or certainly not to brutalize a situation when we aren't even talking about a CRIME or a suspected crime but simply not following the rules. I don't think its a criminal offense to be in the UCLA library without your student ID...making the use of a violent and sometimes deadly weapon all the more stupid and indefensible.

If the cops come to your house and your wife is all beaten up and when they put the cuffs on you they rough you up a bit, fine by me...when they pick up a known criminal and do the same, fine by me...but this was not even close to any of those situations, all the kid did was mouth off, use of violence against him was totally unacceptable.

[seekeronos]

I would have to question the cops and thier use of the Force Wheel, as well as the general application of professionalism in dealing with the public.

That is of course, assuming they are actual city policemen and not just some part time $10/hr security guards.

AFAIK, security guards do not have the right of arrest (as he should have been arrested for disturbing the peace and refusal to obey a law enforcement officer's directions, both misdemeanor offenses in most jurisdictions). Add resisting arrest to that ... except that in the dialog, I cannot discern as to whether or not the enforcement officers actually began to arrest the subject or read Miranda.

As security guards, they would be limited only to removing the subject from the premises and/or detaining him until police could apprehend him and properly charge him. However, if they were police, they should have simply arrested him, and then if he continued to resist, swatted him against the thighs with the nightstick (a practice which if properly applied, cause great pain and tends to temporarily immobilize the subject) and then cuff the guy and carry him out to the awaiting squad car.

The repeated tasering and the intimidation of onlookers - even if meant to dissuade the crowds from acting... would have bween unnecessary if the officers had proprerly immobilized/restrained him and removed him from the building.

Now as to whether or not the subject was a jihadist or a terrorist cell member... that sort of evidence can be acquired after the arrest and used to either deport him or change his status to "unlawful enemy combatant" as needed to take him to Gitmo.

[LAW AND ORDER]

Take him to Gitmo. He is unable to function in decent society. Decent people do not carry on like that.

[Fred Beloit]

Lordy day in the evening, yyy, you certainly are good at bringing a lot of unrelated material into this discussion. Please forgive me if I don't have time to respond to extraneous matter. Let me end my participation with a few related comments. Videos begin, or are edited to begin, at a point in time. We did not see the beginning of the activity, whatever it was. As a source of proof, videos have limited use and must be backed up by other evidence, though they have a heavy effect on a jury, on people like you. Just to take an infamous example, though it is not a video, the Zapruder film. Some people claim to have seen things on it that others cannot. So finding the police guilty at this point is premature, as I'm sure reflection will tell you. I submit that one of the reasons you are so exercised about this incident is you feel tasers should be illegal. I read today that this excitable boy had a section on Myspace. In it he says, and I can't quote exactly, that one of his problems is that he takes simple matters and turns them into complicated matters. In the last day or so, he edited that statement out of his profile, perhaps because it might harm his chances for winning in court. To sum up, he refused a reasonable order from authorities. He escalated refusal into a screaming and physical match. The police subdued him as they felt appropriate and it appears that the tasings were not only ineffective at the time but now seem not to have caused him any harm. "Excitable boy, they all said..."