Webb Is Toast

Jim Webb is toast. Not because of the whole fiction writing meme, but because of this in, of all places, the Washington Post. For all I know, it may even go on to be a glowing recommendation. That matters much less than the first ten or so paragraphs of a newspaper profile, especially given that people who know relatively little about Jim Webb aren't looking to read a book to find things out.

A majority of people aren't going to read much more than Page A01. Some excerpts:

He has switched from Democrat to Republican and back to Democrat

At 60, Webb, who says he loves writing because of the independence -- "You can sit on a park bench, and no one knows who the hell you are" -- is running for a chamber where there is no anonymity, and people can't switch parties when things don't go their way. Even his good friends question whether he has the temperament to serve in Congress.

The article still resonates. "Now you've got a bona fide war hero -- and I'll never take that away from Jim Webb, because he was a war hero -- and he just lined up every woman there and publicly executed us," said retired Navy Cmdr. Kathleen Murray, a 1984 Annapolis graduate who lives in Norfolk.

Paul E. Roush, a retired Marine colonel, wrote in a 1997 naval journal that Webb's article was "the single greatest purveyor of degradation and humiliation on the basis of one's gender that academy women have had to endure." And several Navy women said Webb's views later resurfaced in his writings, speeches and actions as Navy secretary.

Dogged by the issue during the campaign, Webb has dismissed the article as old news and apologized for its excesses, especially a crack in which he called a dormitory at the school a "horny woman's dream."

After reading that, on top of the fiction item being in the news, how many moderate North Virginia women are going to want to read more?

Comments

[jaime]

Saying that the fictional novel he wrote is fiction is a meme now?

I could feel the desperation seeping out my monitor. This is actually an act, non-sexual, that is done in Cambodia. That's near Vietnam, that's the war that George Allen was too much of a pussy to fight in.

Your hail mary is THIS? Really? You think the voters of Virginia are really stupid enough NOT to find out the truth?

[Dan Riehl]

Calm down, Jaime. There's a prozac something or other commenting in another thread. Maybe you should read there. ; ) See, I actually am a thoughtful guy.

[Shalimar]

Toast? I guess you missed all of the previous front-page articles on Allen, which don't seem to have killed his campaign. Webb is a misogynistic pig whom most Democrats and moderates will have to hold their noses to vote for. This isn't news, online progressives have been railing against Schumer and Emmanuel for ages for recruiting pseudo-Republicans like Webb, Casey, Allen, etc.

[Shalimar]

and by Allen, I meant the Tennessee candidate, Ford, one of the most conservative Democrats in the House.

[Phoenix]

Dan,

What kind of karma is coming back to haunt you with all these literalist commenters? Were you a choir boy in another life?

Or maybe a writer of fine fiction? :}

[jaime]

"This isn't news, online progressives have been railing against Schumer and Emmanuel for ages for recruiting pseudo-Republicans like Webb, Casey, Allen, etc."

Please provide links to where this is so. I doubt you will.

[jaime]

From Michelle Malkin (I think she was talking about you Riehl):

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006211.htm

"Now, the George Allen campaign has detonated its October surprise using the same tactics as Cheney's and Libby's critics--attacking the fiction of his Democrat opponent, James Webb via an official "press release" sent to the Drudge Report last night. Are the passages in Webb's "Lost Soldiers" bizarre and perverted? Yes. But they are no more proof of Webb's immorality and unfitness for office than the passages in "Sisters" are proof that Lynne Cheney hates men or that the passages in "The Apprentice" are proof that Scooter Libby endorses sex between children and bears"
...
Political strategists in the Beltway are exulting that "Webb is toast" as a result of this Drudge/Allen bomb. But if this what Republican Senate candidates need to do to win elections, I don't think any of us should be cheering.

http://www.kxmb.com/getARticle.asp?ArticleId=59287

Thira Srey, office manager for the Southern California-based Cambodian Association of America, said it is acceptable for a mother or caretaker in Cambodia, especially those from rural areas, to kiss the penis of an infant or put it in her mouth as a sign of respect or love.

The child is usually 1 year old or younger, "but no more than 2 years old," he said.

The act has nothing to do with sexual feelings, he said, noting that it can be viewed as a sign of high respect by a caretaker for a future master.

[Dan Riehl]

The child is usually 1 year old or younger, "but no more than 2 years old," he said.

Why did you leave out that the child in Webb's work was 4 years old? I guess he did enlighten all that much, maybe he was pre-occupied thinking about the boy? And for the recrod, she doesn't mean me - I'm not inside the Beltway and also don't see it as a huge deal. I find it more funny than anything. But, hey, if it hurts Webb, too bad. After all the help from the WaPo and others, Webb deserves some knocks. He's been running a stealth campaign trying to slip in through the back door. Oops, or may I'm thinking of McGreevey LMAO.

You take this all too seriously, Jamie.

[Marina making pictures]

Yes I agree with you, Webb is already done for at least 50 jears.
I think he is a pervert and has gone too far.

Thank you for sharing this story with me !

[Captain Wacky]

Neither Webb nor Allen can answer a simple question about even mundane matters.

http://modernopinion.com/video/2006/10/tim-i-dont-spit-tobacco-juice-on-floor.asp

[jaime]

"Why did you leave out that the child in Webb's work was 4 years old?"

Webb explains its out of the ordinary. Why are you and Drudge not including the paragraph before this one in Webb's novel? Or the paragraph after?

"You take this all too seriously, Jamie."

The fate of our country hangs in the balance. It should be taken seriously. I actually care about things as an actual citizen. I am not a political operative who doesn't give two shits as long as I get paid like you.

Republicans staying in power will be taken as a mandate. Just like when Bush won by esentially 70,000 votes in Ohio, he treated it as if he won by 7 million votes and nothing changed. If the right eeks by it is a mandate for 5 Americans a day to die in Iraq, because winning is staying and not actually winning. It is a mandate to go deeper into debt to China. It is a mandate for lobbyists to be a part of keeping political majorities. It is a mandate for shaping the rhetoric and not the policy. It is a mandate for the status quo.

[rhodeymark]

What office did Lynne Cheney or Scooter Libby run for again? What opponents have they smeared to garner this examination of their works? Oh, right... they're eeeevil Republicans. Either way - like I said on Wizbang - "peepeegate" is a red herring, guaranteed to get the attention to the real message (as plainly said in the press release), which is to the women of Virginia. "Look at how much worse he thinks of you - IN HIS FANTASY WORLD." Try real hard to imagine those women holding their noses and voting for him now - the subconscious is powerful mojo.

[jaime]

Thanks, rhodey, for inventing my argument for me. I don't give a shit about what Lynne Cheney or Scooter Libby or James Webb wrote. But your argument that, lying about the "pedophelia" in Webb's book means that Webb himself is a pedophile is bullshit. Pure and simple. Just like Scooter Libby doesn't actually condone bear fucking.

You people are so transparent. You know for a fact that the incident in the book was purposefully taken out of context. Why? Because the act Webb describes is not a sexual act in SE Asia. It just isn't. But the whole "good for the gander" attack means you know this is all bullshit and you just don't care.

And I don't think Republicans are evil. I just think the ones in power suck. And the Bolshieviks like Dan Riehl who blindly support them are soullless.

[rhodeymark]

Hey now Jaime - you missed my point completely. Forget the SE Asian custom. That was brought up because it's gross - but SENSATIONAL. The bulk of the excerpts concern Webb's female characters, women overwhelmingly depicted as immoral hos or need-to-get-laid ballbusters.

[jaime]

"That was brought up because it's gross - but SENSATIONAL. The bulk of the excerpts concern Webb's female characters, women overwhelmingly depicted as immoral hos or need-to-get-laid ballbusters."

Did you know there were no women in Lawrence of Arabia?

Did you know the only women in Platoon and Full Metal Jacket are whores?

It's a hard nose look at war from a Warriors point of view. Women don't fare too well in The Illiad either. Rhodey, if Allen were really concerned with showing what a mysogynist Webb is, why the focus on the SE Asian custom? That's all anyone is hearing.

People aren't stupid. When Allen went all macaca, they figured out over time what macaca meant and decided it wasn't an appropriate thing to call the only person of color in an all white crowd. They'll also be outraged for a day or two over the whole custom thing. It's all they'll hear and then they'll learn that it isn't sexual in nature. The only residue will be the slime of George Felix Allen.

[Dan Collins]

That's all anyone is hearing.
That is not the same as saying that that's all that people are saying.
http://www.webbagainstwomen.com/writing/
But they're probably just a bunch of cunts, anyway.

[Dan Collins]

Also, I don't recall the sniper in Full Metal Jacket being a whore. I suppose that the contrast was supposed to be part of the message.

[jaime]

Also, I don't recall the sniper in Full Metal Jacket being a whore.

No she just gets shot and left for dead. The other women help steal a camera and "Love you long time".

I'm sure women would vote for George Allen, the man who would force them to have an abortion even if their life depended on it, because you know, he's pro life. Just like macacas would vote for Allen because, you know, Democrats take them for granted.

[Dan Collins]

I don't remember the mother whose idiot boy gets his head hammered in in Platoon being a whore. I don't recall that the little girl who was almost raped was one, either, though goodness knows what the Kong did when they came through later.

Where's the outrage about the Ozzie mullah's statements, here?

[Dan Collins]

"It is just so disgusting. What has happened to the dignity of the human being? It reflects increasingly certain people in society's attitudes to the unborn child just flushing them away, or burning them like any other waste. How can we let this happen in a civilised society?"

One local woman, who asked not to be named, said after the heartache of deciding to have an abortion she was mortified to find the hospital had used the same furnace they burn rubbish in to incinerate her terminated baby.

She said: "I am furious and very hurt. Imagine my horror when I discovered that my baby was incinerated in the same furnace as the hospital rubbish."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412172&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true

[jaime]

"That's all anyone is hearing.
That is not the same as saying that that's all that people are saying."

Then its poor message delivery. George Felix Allen The OC's favorite rich cowboy, decided that people are stupid which is why he added the passage of the little boy.

Days will be spent on this (bringing Foley back in the news) and eventually people are going to realize. Oh, it's a weird local custom and not child pornography. Every message you want to push about Webb the woman hater has now been drowned out.

People like Michelle Malkin and Glenn Reynolds think its tacky and reflects poorly on George Felix Allen.

[jaime]

Ummm...OK, so the women depicted in Full Metal Jacket and Platoon are either whores or expendable victims of violence, rape, and misogyny. Is that helping you prove your point about Webb somehow?

And about your UK aborted fetus story...WTF????? Should we hold mini-funerals for the hundreds of thousands blastocysts (excuse me, fully functioning human babies) you and your president are willingly allowing to be incinerated in fertility clinics rather than allowing to help in ESCR?

[Dan Collins]

Do they really? Nothing like, "I don't know what a macaca is, and I don't care. I'm just glad that he's in trouble over it."

Nothing like, "He was a Republican when he wrote that shit."

Nothing like the praise for Studds, right?

Nah, he's "horny woman's dream."

[Dan Collins]

No, it's just funny how it became a terminated baby after the fact, like so much other misplaced outrage.

[Dan Collins]

--OK, so the women depicted in Full Metal Jacket and Platoon are either whores or expendable victims of violence, rape, and misogyny.

Yeah? That's not how I viewed them. And if they were depicted that way by Homer, or by Oliver Stone, or Kubrick, would that make it more acceptable?

[jaime]

Who are you quoting? Certainly not me.

Gerry Studds happened 23 years ago. The incident happend 10 years before that. Would you please provide me a link to where he was applauded? If by praise you mean censured along with the Republican congressman who had sex with a page, then sure THAT'S praise.

"That's not how I viewed them. And if they were depicted that way by Homer, or by Oliver Stone, or Kubrick, would that make it more acceptable?"

Then how did you picure them? As beacons of feminism? I'm sorry your talking point of Webb hates women got lost in the easily disproven charges of pedophelia. Dumbass George Felix Allen decided to get sensational with his mudslinging and he missed the target.

[Phoenix]

Wow. Have to go with Jaime on her last comment.......

[Dan Collins]

Wait--you didn't see how Kerry and others eulogized Studds? Where the fuck were you? Not around when it was revealed that the guy had sex with a 17-year-old page and turned his back when his censureship was read, rather than, say, quit, I guess.

I pictured them as victims of war. What's laid out above in the Studds incident is paedophilia. Probably Barney Frank has engaged in paedophilia. What's depicted in those novels is not paedophilia, as far as I'm concerned, but the repeated strange and degrading depictions of women are pornographic, and whether or not you believe they are overshadowed by the child cocksucking issue does not dismiss the effect of those representations.

[Phoenix]

This is pure masturgation of fact and fiction. Jaime pointed out the verisimilitude of the penis-sucking; why would Webb create 'pornographic' depictions if they were not as 'real' as the young child incident? If he based his fiction on events he witnessed, that is hardly gratuitous 'pornography'.

Like Allen and the rest of the studs who cream their jeans over a rival's sexual behaviors, writings, delights....it is all going to come back to haunt them. Sure, the bad boys are shuffled off in disgrace, but who wins - the pantywaist tattletales wiggling their wankers for politics? I don't think so..... What a total bunch of losers....

Yes...the women in those movies were victims, nothing more, nothing less.

God, do we need to get a grip..... PeepeeGate means 'All Politicians Suck'.

[OldLemming]

allen follows the "turd blossom" road to the letter and all the rebubbacan neocon, amerikan taliban fall all over themselves ... get a life ... Jim Webb said nothing more, nothing less, than what 99% of midshipmen, officers, enlisted personnel, civilians and politicians [a completely different subset of humanity] felt and said at the time ... seems to me that "macacca" allen said virtually the same thing YEARS LATER when VMI was involved ... however, I haven't seen anything anywhere about Webb using the "N" word or denigrating anyone for their skin color or -for that matter- their religion, just allen. I hope not, but if Virginia wants him, Virginia can have him ... his days on the national scene and his hopes as a presidential candidate are OVER ,,, hopefully, so are his days in the Senate ! Jim Webb has shown himself to be a bigger, better human being than allen just by leaving the rebubbacan party !

[Dan Collins]

--Jim Webb has shown himself to be a bigger, better human being than allen just by leaving the rebubbacan party !

Thanks for clarifying that. OldLemming. Otherwise, one might have thought, for a while, that you had something principled in mind.

[punkingale]

Jaime, you are my HERO!!!!

[Dan Collins]

Yes, I'm sure, punkingale, because of the risks he takes to defend our way of life.

[jaime]

"because of the risks he takes to defend our way of life."

No more or less than a blog full of chickenhawk cowards.

[jaime]

"Wait--you didn't see how Kerry and others eulogized Studds?"

It was his funeral. I know Dan Riehl and friends like to laugh at people with disablities. Ha! Jerky Boyz! He's got Parkinson's and he shakes. It's a laugh riot. Speaking ill of the dead at someone's funeral seems right up you guys' alley.

[rhodeymark]

bzzzzt - you lose. Just shows how tenuous is your grip when you have to offer up Ollie Stone and Kubrick as foils to the issue at hand. Here it is on a bar napkin for you (hat tip to MKH). WEBB's throwaway females also include AMERICAN nurses, heroes in their own right. But since you didn't also include acid-head Kesey, I guess that part of it didn't resonate. So - I can now question your patriotism as well as your own misogyny! Bonus points!! Oh and not that it matters, I'm a Navy vet from back when Webb was honcho. You can stuff the chickenhawk chickenshit when you have no idea who you are addressing.

[Shalimar]

"Please provide links to where this is so. I doubt you will."

Jaime, you're right that I'm not going to waste half an hour digging through the past finding links. If you want to do it, look through the frontpage archives of Booman Tribune or My Left Wing or one of the other progressive sites started by exiles from DailyKos. The easiest period to find something would be right before the Pennsylvania primary, when there were numerous anti-Casey posts with occasional mentions of Ford and Webb too. The Kos and MyDD-approved strategy of finding "electable" Dems was not highly thought of by the more progressive wing of the blogosphere, many of whom (including me) felt that true progressives would provide a better contrast to Republican corruption and make better legislators too. Whether this could ever work in Virginia or Tennessee is arguable, and we spent alot of time arguing about it.

[jaime]

Rhodey. Most men can't write for women. I work with a lot of writers and it takes an extrordinary writer who can. Webb can't write for women because he's not a great writer AND his experiences probably extended contact with women in combat.

You are the exception to the chickenhawk rule. I thank you for your service. I hope you are proud of the job your leaders and cheerleading entertainers have done with this war. "Pilinoidal cysts", "other priorities", and "fighting the war of ideas" with our young men and women as pieces in their game of Risk.

Shallmar, you are correct, there was a debate within the liberal community over what was "electable". It's looking like Kos is right in this respect because Casey is way up and Ford and Webb are showing strong in states they could never pick up otherwise.

[Phoenix]

So off-topic.... but, whew! One writer who aced it with women: Charles Frazier in "Cold Mountain". Wow. Just 'Wow'.