The War Crime In Jim Webb's Past

I admit to instinctively reacting negatively to Virginia Senate candidate Jim Webb for some reason, much the way I reacted to the personae of Bill Clinton when he arrived on the national political scene. According to polls, Webb and Allen are neck and neck.

In looking for an answer to my intuitive response, I was surprised when I Googled An Hoa Basin in 1969 while researching a war crime to which Webb is prominently linked and instead found myself reading blurbs from Webb's book - Fields of Fire.

I'm not accusing Webb of involvement with a war crime, his role in the affair is widely known - his post trial defense of Samuel Greene. But his judgment in that and on a related matter leaves me with a very troubling feeling about the man.

Webb touts his early military experience in his campaign, aside from writing fiction, it's the only consistent experience he has. Some insiders of the Reagan administration suggest he left on not very good terms. And while as disparate entities as the Washington Times and The Daily Kos have praised Jim Webb for what he did in defending one Marine as regards the war crime cited above, for the life of me I can't understand why, as it doesn't seem to be driven by anything other than pure narcissism - a dangerous quality I loathe in a politician.

Daily Kos brags that during his first year of law school, Jim Webb began representing, pro bono, an African American who had been wrongly convicted of war crimes. Putting aside Webb's fiction, here is what really happened in the An Hoa basin that night:

A five-man (all volunteer) team went on a search-and-destroy mission for Viet Cong in a small village, Son Thang, ordering 16 women and children from three huts and executing them. Within a day, the Marines began investigating, resulting in convictions of Pvts. Michael Schwarz and Samuel Green. Schwarz was sentenced to life imprisonment and Green to five years.

Both sentences later were reduced to one year.

Other reports suggest the men knew what they were about that night well before the patrol even began. And as I said, they were all volunteers and ultimately for his role in the crime, Greene was sentenced to only one year. Webb didn't exonerate him. He simply had his discharge upgraded, admittedly going to great length to do it. An extended version of events is below the fold.

Webb's argument was that the political leadership was at fault, Greene was relatively new to the field and shouldn't have been held accountable for his crime.

Now contrast that with this:

His GOP conversion came on Jan. 21, 1977, when Democrat Jimmy Carter, on the second day of this presidency, carried out a campaign promise to pardon all who avoided the Vietnam draft.

“It was the last straw,” Webb said. “There had never been an amnesty program in history that gave blanket pardons to everyone. There were a lot of people back from Vietnam who kept trying to identify with the Democratic Party and it was like they didn’t want us.”

I simply don't get a sense of someone reaching for any objective standard of justice given the two extreme positions. It's almost as if Webb sees the entire world as Me and them. Follow orders as I did and if you kill innocents, that's okay. But walk away from that possibility in protest and you absolutely need to be held to account.

It doesn't add up for me. It appears to be driven more by ego and too much from personal experience than any objective sense of justice. And it's that Me versus them approach I sense in his demagogy - from invoking the the chicken-hawk slur, to offending women and allegedly maligning Blacks.

In the final analysis, Webb strikes me as precisely the kind of intelligent but very small minded man capable of such things. You're either with Jim Webb, or one of Jim Webb's kind, or you're not. And if you're not, you're automatically wrong.

I could understand Webb wanting war criminals and draft dodgers forgiven through a liberal sense of justice given Vietnam. I could understand a Law and Order type wanting both sides held to account. But I'm not sure a liberal or a conservative can vote for Jim Webb without coming to regret it down the road.

In my opinion, his judgment isn't to be trusted in the Senate. There appears to be no consistency to the man beyond defending positions taken through self-interest and not the common good.

On the evening of 19 February 1970, Company B, 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, operating in the Viet Cong dominated countryside south of FSB Ross, sent out a five-man roving patrol. Called a "killer team," the patrol had the mission of setting ambushes near the many pro VC hamlets in the Que Son Valley to catch enemy troops or underground members moving in and out .

Of the members of the team, Lance Corporal Randell D. Herrod, the leader, had been in Vietnam for seven months; PFC Thomas R . Boyd, Jr., had spent six months in the war, and Private Michael A. Schwartz, three months.

The remaining two patrol members, PFCs Samuel G . Green and Michael S. Krichten, had been in Vietnam only a month . None of these Marines, except Herrod, was considered proficient in night patrolling, although all had volunteered for the mission . Herrod, recently transferred from the 3d Marine Division, was awaiting court-martial for unauthorized absence . He was acting as team leader on this occasion because better qualified men were fatigued from days of continual combat.

January and February 1970 had been difficult months for Company B . The company had helped defend FSB Ross against the 6 January sapper attack . On 12 February, Company B had nine Marines killed in a well-executed enemy ambush . Weeks of day and night operations had brought the men close to exhaustion, and boobytrap casualties had compounded anger and frustration at the 12 February losses . The company commander, First Lieutenant Louis R . Ambort, a 23-year-old from Little Rock, Arkansas, reflected the tension in the unit in his instructions to Herrod's patrol . Ambort, according to subsequent accounts, exhorted his men to "get some damned gooks tonight " and avenge the company's casualties . He gave the impression that age, sex, and military status were not to be taken into account, although the platoon sergeant made a point of warning Herrod before the patrol went out that the lieutenant really meant only enemy soldiers.

In the field, the "killer team" moved to the small hamlet of Son Thang (4),* about two miles southwest of Ross, inhabited by a group of known Viet Cong families. The people in Son Thang had refused both American and GVN offers of relocation to a safer area,  preferring to stay near where their men were fighting. Under the rules of engagement for this area, night patrols could enter such hamlets to search for VC ; this night, Herrod's team entered Son Thang (4) . The Marines went to a hut and called out the occupants, all women and children . One woman broke for a nearby treeline . The Marines shot her and then, allegedly at Herrod's command, gunned down the others . They went on to two more huts, ordered the inhabitants of each to come outside, and cut them down with small arms fire . In all, 16 Vietnamese—five women and 11 children—died that night in Son Thang (4).

Returning to the company position, the patrol reported a fight with 15-20 armed Viet Cong and claimed to have killed six .3 Lieutenant Ambort passed the report on to battalion and regiment . The next morning, another 1st Battalion patrol, acting on a report from Vietnamese civilians, found the bodies in Son Thang (4) . When battalion headquarters challenged Ambort's initial report, the lieutenant at first stuck by it and produced an SKS, actually taken some time before, as a weapon captured in the nonexistent fight. Later, he admitted that he had made a false action report. Information on the incident moved rapidly up the division chain of command. On 20 February, Major General Wheeler, the 1st Marine Division commander, reported to III MAF that a " possible serious incident" had occurred, involving elements of Company B and the civilians of Son Thang.

Comments

[mylena]

As a lawyer you should put your own emotions away and defend your client as best as you can. You can't hold the lawyer accountable for the crimes the client made.

Thats said my opions of the Vietnam war... and the same of the Iraq war... it is dirty... we put young people there... mistakes are made... also the anger... nobody can be trusted. For sure I know for the people who didn;t go there and went there can't judge the people that easily.

[BobDee]

"In the final analysis, Bush strikes me as precisely the kind of intelligent but very small minded man capable of such things. You're either with George Bush, or one of George Bush's kind, or you're not. And if you're not, you're automatically wrong."

So,,,whats your problem here?

"There appears to be no consistency to the man beyond defending positions taken through self-interest and not the common good."

The common WHAT? What have you become, some commie or something?

[Pug]

sees the entire world as Me and them.

So you dislike James Webb for this attitude but worship George W. Bush? Seems to me you are the one that has problems with consistency.

Another inconsistency is your constant praise for our fineset young men and women who serve in the military even though, I'm sure, you didn't. They are our heroes, unless, of course, they happen to be Democrats. Then it's time to smear their service.

[jim]

What a asinine piece. You should be ashamed at the sophomoric attempt at swiftboating.You have accomplished nothing except make yourself look like some penny ante loser with an agenda.
Reading your past articles i was tempted to believe that you had defined intelligence downeard, this article confirms it.

[HeavyJ]

Jim Webb. A man who served with honor, and a man who honors service.

Often atrocities are blamed on those at the bottom of the chain of command. It's inspiring to see an officer buck that trend.

Thanks for relating ths story. It's inspired me to send another $100 to Webb.

[Joe]

So what you're saying is:

A) Five Marines killed 16 innocent women and children in VietNam.

b) John Kerry is completely off his rocker for saying that our troops killed innocent women and children in VietNam.

Make up your mind, you idiot.

[Cap'n Dan]

It's not really that much of a dichotomy - I'd expect anyone who's worn a uniform to understand it. My military time was shortly after Vietnam, but I served with many Vietnam vets and understand the mindset. To those guys, there really is a difference between those that went and those that ran to Canada. The first group tried to serve honorably under difficult conditions, and thus are deserving of sympathy for some of the terrible situations they found themselves in. Those who refused induction are seen as betraying those who went. To them, every man who refused induction just made a place for someone else who had to bear his load in combat.

[Sean Lally]

Mr Riehl, you write with a great deal of authority on this subject it made me wonder about your military service, I urge you to share with us the details of your time in uniform

In the meantime I too am inspired by your writing and will also be donating $100 to to Mr Webb's campaign

[xxx]

macaca

[T]

Truly a low point in all of blogwhoredom.

A piece of advice, write what you know. If you don't know, or if you're relying on your "instincts", just shut up.

Also, titles like "The War Crime In Jim Webb's Past" make you look like both an idiot AND a liar.

[Pham]

Herrod was Oliver North's radioman and twice saved North's life. North went back to Vietnam, on his dime, during Herrod's trial to testify as a character witness. Herrod was acquitted. [Source: 'The Nightingale Song' by Robert Timberg, 1995.]

How many Americans were convicted and served serious sentences for war crimes during Vietnam? [Calley was convicted and did house arrest before he was pardoned by Nixon. Read 'Tiger Force,' a new book that came out in May 2006.]

Don't bother to ask. I served. In the USMC. And I don't need to be praised or thanked. www.asenseofduty.com

[1st Cav]

Thank you for bringing this to light. I do admire Webb's defense of our troops and his disdain for the pardon of protestors. However, I would very much like to know his position on John Murtha's (D-Pa) statement that our Marine's killed innocent civilians "in cold blood". Murtha stated that even before a final report was/has been issued.

1st Cav Div RVN
3rd Bde (Sep)
B 2/5th Cav
D 1/12th Cav

[xxx]

I tend to think Dan's post makes him look like an idiot, a liar and a blogwhore because that is exactly what he is.

The talking points from Rove HQ are getting worse and worse, more and more bizarre.

[csm]

As a follow up post to permit votes to assess Webb vis-a-vis his oppoinent, please explain George Allen's "objective standard of justice" (which you claim Webb lacks) and how that objective standard of justice would be applied to the treatment of Greene and the pardon of draft dodgers.

[Dan Riehl]

My, the natives sure are restless today. Must have hit a nerve. The above is simply my reaction to the facts. You may not like them, but you can't change them ... except in your leetle heads. lol

All I saw was an inconsistency and no higher level thought in his two positions. Looks like he has quite a bit of the Redneck in him, and, I thought that was Allen?

Webb apparently changes parties every time he disagrees with something. That he's hosing the Dems now only shows their desperation and his being ill-suited for the Senate due to his self-indulgent nature.

[chris]

Towards the end of Fields of Fire, Webb has a character say, "Thoreau went to prison, not Canada." That's Webb's view of the difference, which seems pretty close to "Cap'n Dan's" above.

As for Webb, he is probably the most impressive person to run for national level office (defined, for my purposes, as Governor/Senator or higher) in a long time. I'm a conservative, and I certainly don't care for the party he chose. I probably wouldn't vote for him either, though not for any love of Allen, as I haven't voted for a Democrat ever and don't want to start now. However, I think Republicans and conservatives should be very concerned that this guy, who might as well be an avatar of the people the Democrats kicked out of the party in 1972, has returned to the Democratic fold. Mackubin Thomas Owens, a friend of Webb's and an instructor at the Naval War College, has written about this for NRO.

[chris]

Mr. Riehl,

One brief comment regarding your statement that "Webb apparently changes parties every time he disagrees with something." The first time Webb changed parties he left the Democrats and went Republican, along with many of countrymen, as a "Reagan Democrat." I doubt you begrudge him that (having never read your blog, I'm assuming you're a Republican). His recent change in partisan affiliation, I believe, is 100% caused by Iraq. I won't begrudge him that either, since his son is currently there following in his father's footsteps as a combat Marine.

For my part, I just hope that Webb changes the Democrats more than they change him. I fear that, however, once Iraq has ceased to motivate partisan passions, Webb will be jettisoned by a party that, at least at its activist base, is antithetical to the way Webb led his life.

[Ken Talton]

This piece...particularly the title....is beneath contempt.

Cap'n Dan refuted your "dichotomy" better than I can.

Jim Webb has aligned himself with the Kossacks the people who threw Joe Lieberman out of their party. That should be enough to give one pause for voting for him.

Jim Webb is also a genuine hero who has stood up for what he belived in, put his life on the line for the nation when it was not fashionable to do so and stood up for people the system had thrown under the bridge.

I cannot agree with his choice of patrons and the policies that that implies, but I will not lower myself to the level of the nutroots and support such a vile hit piece.

Mr. Riehl, you are a hell of a better blogger than this.

[Dan Riehl]

"Mr. Riehl"

That's BS - this is not a hit piece. It points out the very thing I state, the provincial nature of his thinking. That is far more important to me in a Senator, then his war record - which I have done nothing to disgrace. He doesn't like Carter's pardon, he goes from D to R. He doesn't like the current President's decisions, hell, he just switches back again. If that all isn't self serving, then nothing is. His one noble principle is sticking up for his opinion as regards men at war. That's fine. But it takes a hell of a lot more to be a good Senator. And I will not buy into this BS that no one should question him because he served in Vietnam. That the Left even embraces him is a joke and a charade. As is his candidacy, I suuspect. Take away Iraq and you have nothing left but what his handlers put in his mouth.

[xxx]

Then maybe you should not have put WAR CRIMES in your misleading swift boat title Dan if that was the real 'issue'...

[Catzmaw]

Let's see, if I read correctly what you're saying, you dipped selectively into "blurbs from Fields of Fire" to arrive at the conclusion that Jim Webb is an small minded man who excused a war crime. I would be a lot more impressed with your "analysis" if you'd bothered to read the freakin' book. Through scenes of a platoon exacting revenge he explains how something like that can happen, he doesn't excuse it. This is just a hatchet job on your part.

If you want to gain insight into Webb try reading Born Fighting. In it he describes what it was like in Vietnam: "The [An Hoa] basin was one of the most heavily contested areas in Vietnam ... Local Viet Cong units sniped and harassed. Ridgelines and paddy dikes were laced with sophisticated booby traps of every size, from hand grenades to 250-pound bombs. The villages, where many battles took place, sat in the rice paddies and tree lines like individual fortresses, crisscrossed with trenches and spider holes, their homes sporting bunkers capable of surviving direct hits from large-caliber artillery shells. The Viet Cong infrastructure was intricate and permeating. Except for the old and the very young, villagers who did not side with the communists had either been killed or driven out to the government-controlled enclaves near Da Nang."

You're sitting in a place where you don't have to worry about things like booby-trapped children (which happened there). You walk down streets in which you don't worry about things like machine gun emplacements. You're well-fed, well-protected, and secure.

Look what Webb wrote about the conditions there: "We moved through the boiling heat with sixty pounds of weapons and gear, causing a typical Marine to drop 20 percent of his body weight while in the bush. When we stopped, we dug chest-deep fighting holes and slit trenches for toilets. We slept on the ground under makeshift poncho hooches, and when it rained we usually took our hooches down because wet ponchos shined under illumination flares, making great targets. Sleep itself was fitful, never more than an hour or two at a stretch for months at a time as we mixed daytime patrolling with nighttime ambushes, listening posts, foxhole duty, and radio watches. Ringworm, hookworm, malaria and dysentery were common as was trench foot when the monsoons came."

No one reading that book could call its author small-minded. He takes stands on principle and remembers what it was like to be expected to fight in Hell and then meet derision and condemnation when he returned. Read the part of the book where he encounters a law professor's final exam in criminal law which posited a Lieutenant Webb in Vietnam whose troops commit a war crime and who then ships stolen jade home in the bodies of his dead Marines. Appalling.

You're the small minded one.

[Sam McGowan]

As a lifelong Republican, I had never voted for a Democrat until I voted against G.W. Bush in the last election. I'm glad Jim Webb, who has more character than the entire political spectrum combined, switched parties. He personifies what the real Vietnam veterans are all about.

[KayInMaine]

I still crack up every now and then when I visualize Bush as head cheerleader at Yale while Americans were serving their country on the battlefield in Vietnam. From that moment on, Bush's career serving his nation only got funnier. The man is a yellowbellied chickenhawk (his twins are too) and ANYONE who stood on the battlefield with a freaking SLINGSHOT is braver than Bush ever will be!

[Will]

As a former Marine, the son of a career Marine (34 years, the Grandson of a Career Sailor (33 years) and the Grandson of a man who was in the Black Watch in WW I I was raised around warriors. James Webb is Warrior and man of integrity and honor. As a Virginin I am overjoyed that the Democratic Party is starting to swing back towards the right. Men , and I use the word losely, like you and Allen attack this mans intergity and honor beucase you can not attack his politcal positions with out seeming the fool. The problem is that by attacking his character you do not seem the fool you are the fool.

Semper Fi Mac

(And if you didnt know this is a Marines way, I learned it from WW II Marines, of telling you to get bent)