Jonah (Goldberg) And The Whale

Jonah Goldberg has apparently concluded that the war in Iraq was a worthy mistake. Unfortunately for Goldberg, that is something which simply cannot be true. No mistake is worthy if it results in the loss of 3,000 American lives. So, if the war were truly a mistake, it was a most unworthy one, at that.

I don't believe that to be the case, not even close. How nice that Goldberg chooses to comfort himself with this surprising admission now, too bad it wouldn't comfort a single family member of those lost in Iraq, excluding Cindy Sheehan, of course.

I had to look up the bible story of Jonah and the Whale. I'm not a Bible banger, but the story surely fits. I'll keep it brief.

Jonah was a prophet from Galilee. Assyria was a powerful, evil nation and Israel’s most dreaded enemy. The Lord spoke to Jonah and told him to go to Nineveh, the capital of Assyria, and preach to the Ninevites. (Jonah 1:2) Jonah was supposed to warn the Ninevites to repent or suffer the consequences of their wickedness.

Instead of heading for Nineveh, he took off for Tarshish, Spain. The Assyrians had committed terrible atrocities against the people of Israel: traveling into their midst would have been frightening.

Jonah hops on a boat headed for Tarshish, attempting to hide out from God. At night, a huge storm comes up and tosses the boat wildly. The captain goes down to Jonah’s cabin and pulls him out of bed. “And they said to one another, "Come, let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this trouble has come upon us." So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.” (Jonah 1:7 NKJV)

The sailors all question Jonah about what he’s done to bring this storm on them. He confesses that he is running away from the Lord’s will and tells the sailors to throw him overboard to spare their lives. This they do. (Jonah 1:8-15)

As Jonah is sinking into the sea, a big fish (whale) swallows him. (Jonah 1:17) Here we see God’s great mercy. He could have let Jonah suffer the consequences of his actions and drown. Yet, God intervenes and spares Jonah’s life. 

Jonah sat in the whale’s belly for three days and nights. He spends that time in prayer, thanking God for saving him. He realizes the miracle that God has affected to save him and is truly grateful. He is sincere in his prayer and God tells the whale to spit Jonah out on shore. (Jonah 2:1-10)

Then, the Lord tells Jonah again to go to Nineveh and preach repentance. Imagine being Jonah, walking into a city of your enemies and preaching a message that is bound to be unpopular. It would be terrifying! But, Jonah this time does as he’s told and amazingly the people repent. The king orders all to fast, put on sackcloth and beg for forgiveness. (Jonah 2:1-10)

Jonah Goldberg has lost his faith, not in God, but in what freedom can bring to a free Iraq and ultimately a more free Middle East. Nothing else is going to eventually lance the festering boil which is radical Islam.

Yes, I know it's hard. I know more people will die. And I know it's easy for me to say because I'm not one of them. But I also know how easy it is to lose faith when you set out upon a noble cause.

I hope for Jonah's sake he finds comfort while he meditates in the belly of the whale. And I hope one day he is regurgitated on the shores of a more free, more Democratic Iraq.

Most importantly, I'm grateful that the effort is being led and fought by, whatever else their flaws and mistakes, men and women with a truer faith in freedom than the likes of Jonah Goldberg. Evidently the political conversion that is absolutely required for genuine peace in the Middle East didn't come easy or fast enough for him.

Enough said.

Comments

[Felix]

"Most importantly, I'm grateful that the effort is being led and fought by, whatever else their flaws and mistakes, men and women with a truer faith in freedom than the likes of Jonah Goldberg."

Of course, polls show a majority of our troops in Iraq think we ought to end the occupation.

But don't let facts get in the way of your true faith...

[Shalimar]

I'm not a Bible banger

Didn't think so, you don't write like a christian. It's amazing, in just the last few days you have managed to insult just about everyone in the country. Your general lack of manners is appalling, there is no way you would last even a week in the south (people get beat up for insulting christians around here).

[Terry Gain]

Of course, polls show a majority of our troops in Iraq think we ought to end the occupation.Felix
---
Of course you don't provide a link to support this assertion.

Here's my scorecard:

Plus
1.Saddam removed and permanently unable to pursue WMD programs. (Read Duelfer Report and Saddam's Bomb if you think he wouldn't have restarted these programs when sanctions ended).
2. Iraq no longer run by a stalininst dictatorship representing a small minority of its people.
3. Iraq no longer harbouting terrorists.
4. Sanctions ended. (50,000 infant deaths per year according to Unicef)
5. Al Qaeda decimated- both in terms of fighters lost and damage to reputation. Their strategy of killing innocents has their reputation in the toilet throughout M.E.
6. A.Q Khan network exposed.
7. Utter cluelessness of MSM and Democratic party on defence exposed.
8. al Qaeda now understands America will fight.

Minus
1. Deaths of and injuries to coalition soldiers.
2. Iraq not likely to emerge as Jeffersonian Democracy in near future.
3. Daily death toll in Iraq approaching 75% of what it was during Saddam's reign.
4. Dems popular despite utter cluelessness of Democratic party on defence being exposed.

[ed]

"Of course, polls show a majority of our troops in Iraq think we ought to end the occupation.Felix
---
Of course you don't provide a link to support this assertion."

Hey, glad to help out. Zogby poll at www.zogby.com/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Released in February, 2006:

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.

Of course, it doesn't say what you want, so the poll is of no value, right?

[Dan Riehl]

you have managed to insult just about everyone in the country

Thanks! I try to be as fair and balanced as I can. ; )

[Terry Gain]

Felix,

Thanks for the link. The poll does not say what you claim. A year from now it might be quite appropriate to leave Iraq.

Secondly the poll is a Zogby poll which means it is suspect.

Thirdly you show extreme bias and an unwillingness to see the situation as it is when you use the word "occupation" . Occupupiers do not let the occupied call the shots. An appropriate description of the U.S. role is "Honorable, Courageous, Principled, Valiant, Freedom Fighting Guests".

[Terry Gain]

ed,

Obviously I did not note you were the author of the post I attributed to Felix. Thanks for the link.

[Ed Muntin]

Other plusses and minuses:
Halliburton profits up up up
Defence industry profits up, up, up
Several dozen nations around the world are still run by dictatorships representing a small minority of their people.
Afghanistan still harbouring terrorists with situation deteriorating
Iraq close to civil war
Man responsible for 9/11 [which changed everything] still at large.
Islamic extremism worldwide worse than ever

[Ed Muntin]

"see the situation as it is when you use the word "occupation""

I hate to use a WWII analogy, they’re so overdone.
But after June 1940 France still had a government,
which probably called just as many shots as the current Baghdad regime does.

The “Iraq War” has been misnamed from the start – Invasion & Occupation is a much more accurate description.

[Phoenix]

"(people get beat up for insulting christians around here)."

Whoa.... ain't this sumthin' ta be proud of......

hahaha.............. Dan, Dang it...stop insulting people. One o' them (lower case) christians might chop yo' haid off.

[ed]

Terry:

The Zogby poll was taken in late 2005, the link was for a paper released in February, 2006, so the 72% majority of troops wanted us out in 2006. Exactly as claimed. The Zogby methodology was not suspect as I read it, but I only have doctoral level training in research methodology and statistics, and have published numerous research articles in refereed journals, so what do I know?

That said, J. Goldberg is an inarticulate windbag that I stopped reading a long time ago.

[RightRight]

This Tillman character is obviously trying to use his brother's death for cheap political gain, a la the Defeatocrats with the Jersey Girls and Sheehan. There is no more noble cause than being sent into harm's way to enact the ideological whims of the ruling class. Despite what the media says, civil war is just another page in the book of Democracy. The USA went through it--most countries have gone through it. Democracy is a messy business and we knew it would be a long hard slog but, one morning, we are going to wake up and there will be peace and prosperity in Iraq. We know this because we have numerous reports from multiple think tanks that have assured us of this.

Kevin Tillman ought to be prosecuted under the Alien and Sedition Act for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

[SinCerely]

there is no way you would last even a week in the south (people get beat up for insulting christians around here).

Posted by: Shalimar | Friday, October 20, 2006 at 08:56 AM

Now,now. How Christian like is that? lmao.
When did becoming Christ like require beating someones ass? Dumb F***

[Phoenix]

That Tillman exegesis of how rotten America is looks like one of those demogogic spam letters aimed at the brainless.

I'm surprised it didn't have at the end: SEND THIS TO FIVE OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS AND WE WILL PUT YOUR NAME IN THE SWEEPSTAKES: TAKE DOWN AMERICA NOW !!!!!!!!

[Nick J.]

"Yes, I know it's hard. I know more people will die. And I know it's easy for me to say because I'm not one of them."

And yet here you are, still blogging when you should be enlisting. Funny, that.

[Dan Riehl]

Terry:

The Zogby poll was taken in late 2005

Whoa now. You'd have to thumb the archives but I debunked that poll when it came out. Forget thaty Zogby's brother is on one Arab group or another and that Zogby is a stone cold lib - he used a Lebanese or maybe Jordanian, I forget, firm that had never done a poll outside of Lebanon and never accounted for how he managed access to the soldiers in Iraq. Who, btw, are not likely to respond to every idiot with a clip board who happens along. That poll was total BS when it came out and it still is now.

[Dan Riehl]

still blogging when you should be enlisting

Yeah, at my age (which you don't know) - dumbass. Are you always this dumb, or do you just play moron in comments on a blog.

I couldn't enlist if I wanted, though I did in my time as the draft was already over. Now run back to the student center and pull your thumb out of your ass before your head explodes, dope.

[M.A.]

It's one indication of the fact that conservatives are now much more politically correct than liberals that people like Riehl go into hysterics at the slightest suggestion that the war was a mistake. But it was a mistake; Iraq was better off under Saddam (not because Saddam wasn't evil; he was evil; but there is more death and devastation in Iraq now than under Saddam).

The fact that conservatives can't admit these obvious truths shows how wedded they are to their PC dogmas, and why Republicans can no longer be trusted on national security: they refuse to stand up for America's interests and admit that Iraq was in the interests of neither America or Iraq. Which is why people who care about national security will vote Democratic.

Also, casually accepting the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people because you think it's in a "noble cause" is a sign of psychosis, of utter disregard for human life. No wonder the GOP is the Party of Death; you guys think that the deaths of innocent human beings is just a blip in your Great Experiment.

[mockmook]

Dan,

Did you read Jonah's article? His major points are:

1. With 20/20 hindsight, going into Iraq was a mistake (and the prosecution of the war was part of that mistake).

2. Now that we are there, it is important to finish the mission.

How is his analysis wrong?

[Dan Riehl]

How is his analysis wrong?

Because I don't believe it was a mistake. The strategic implications of a free Iraq are quite different from Afghanistan, or any other state. It borders nearly every critical nation in the middle east. We had every justification to launch the war. So the issue, as I see it, was, are you going to play defense or offense in eventually deflating extremism in the middle east in the longer term.

I advocate playing offense and conclude it wasn't a mistake. Obviously others disagree.

[Cyan]

"We had every justification to launch the war."

Yeah! Every justification! Except for WMD -- none were found. But at least institutional torture was stopped (except at Abu Ghraib). And Saddam's regime is no longer killing Iraqis, although now that I think about it, coalition troops and sectarian violence are doing about as good a job as Saddam ever did at killing Iraqis. But Iraq is a democracy now, so that justifies everything. A democracy in the throes of civil war and rapidly beoming a failed state, true, but a democracy none the less. Nyah, nyah, stupid liberals!

[drinkslinger]

You know, Dan, I'd call you an asshole, but assholes have a use, and I'd be insulting all the assholes in use everyday.

Ahhh, screw it. You're an asshole.

[mockmook]

Hey Dan,

I think Jonah is saying that THIS war was a mistake, i.e., if we had it to do all over again, we would do it differently (DUH, Jonah!!!).

He definitely made his so-called "argument" in a provocative and clumsy way.

But, he wants to win, as do you.

[Phoenix]

Saddam Hussein was his own personal WMD. The fact that we haven't found any that go "clink" when we thonk them does not mean they weren't there. Had we not gone in, who's to say WMD would not be there now? The U.S. needs a presence in the Levant to protect useful assholes in the western hemisphere. Oh, and the even more useful assholes in Europe and anywhere else where the heat of several nuked-up countries desirous of the annihilation of Israel and those supporters of Israel is a relentless threat.

Building a democracy is not easy. Our own history shows that. But try building one where the people don't have the psychological ability to 'think' they have rights. What a great guy, Saddam.....If he wasn't killing thousands, he was destroying their minds by sublimating any thoughts of 'individualism'. It will take a couple of generations before Iraqis can be as bold as we were in defending their new nation; but does that justify leaving them to their pitiful attempts to make that nation work? Not any more than it justifies us giving up defending our nation by bailing out and leaving no U.S. presence in an area that is bent on our destruction. There are two very futuristic dynamics going on here that some short-term thinkers cannot seem to grasp.

[M.A.]

Phoenix, if Bush hadn't kicked the U.N. inspectors out of Iraq and had let them have the time they were asking for, they would have discovered that Saddam had no WMD and we would have "disarmed" him without invading. That's what a real national-security success looks like: you get what you want without making war. And it's why the Republicans -- who don't want any solutions short of war -- aren't serious on national security.

The rest of your post is just grotesque anti-life boilerplate. Iraq is a country, not a guinea pig, and to say that those 600,000 Iraqis died so Iraq can be a democracy several generations from now shows a detestable indifference to human life. These were people, not numbers.

[Nitpicker]

This could have been a much shorter post.

"I know more people will die. And I know it's easy for me to say because I'm not one of them."

Enough said.

[Phoenix]

M. A.

Okay.

[jjcomet]

"And I know it's easy for me to say because I'm not one of them. "

The only iota of truth in the entire screed...

[jjcomet]

"This Tillman character is obviously trying to use his brother's death for cheap political gain, a la the Defeatocrats with the Jersey Girls and Sheehan...Kevin Tillman ought to be prosecuted under the Alien and Sedition Act for giving aid and comfort to the enemy."

What a douchebag. You clearly have not read any of the published excepts from Pat Tillman's own diary, in which he says about Iraq "This war is so fucking illegal." Tillman was never the pro-war right-wing hero that nutjobs like you wanted him to be. He supported attacking Afghanistan because they shelteres the Taliban, but realized much more quickly than the chickenshit warbloggers that Iraq was a distraction and a mistake. Perhaps you think Pat should be prosecuted posthumously as well?

[Fred Gallargy]

So, would this Tillman character be using his brother's death for cheap political gain if he were calling for the war to continue? Why is one position "political" and not the other, exactly?

Because of poor planning, arrogance, and incompetence, all this blood and treasure will have been for nothing. The war in Iraq was lost months ago.

[Nick J.]

"Yeah, at my age (which you don't know) - dumbass. Are you always this dumb, or do you just play moron in comments on a blog.

I couldn't enlist if I wanted, though I did in my time as the draft was already over. Now run back to the student center and pull your thumb out of your ass before your head explodes, dope."

My, such a hostile reaction. All you would have had to do was explain that you were past the age of service. Why all the anger? Did I hit a nerve?

[basils]

Iraq (first post)--by the way, the book of Jonah is all about the consequences of rejecting a direct request by God and what evolves when such requests are ignored. I do not see the parallel at all with the Iraqi conflict.

Democracy is something not for everyone. Sometimes, dictatorship is the way it is. Iraq should fight for what they want, not America policing the world. How sad we have so quickly forgotten the genenis of this country, and the reasons for liberty... Now that we are a superpower, why is it justified to start wars just because we presume in such arrogance that Iraq or other similiar countries would be better off? Other than being decendents of Ishmael, is there really a treat to Us citizens? Wonder what the death toll comparison with and without Hussien is? Anybody got some numbers?

[basils]

I meant threat, not treat

[Phoenix]

So, Basil, Some people don't deserve freedom and liberty? Wow..... What? Maybe they're too stupid or something?

What does 'being decendents of Ishmael' have to do with anything?

[Prozacula]

Man, you are such an idiot, Riehl.

Don't you ever get tired of using those tin phrases that sound like so much communist propaganda? 'Noble', 'Faith', etc.? Nothing we have done over there can be called 'noble'.

Everyone knows this entire debacle was a mistake from day one.

It's time to wake up, pull your head out of your ass, and realize what a travesty you have been a part of.

[shingles]

"Jonah (Goldberg) And The Whale"

I believe The Whale is Jon Podhoretz.

[basils]

Phoenix: How quaint of you to assume everyone in the world wants what we have. If all you've known is a certain way of living then how could you assume Iraqi's want something different? Even if they do, they can go about their freedom the way we did. Because America sure didn't get any help.

[Phoenix]

"Prozacula"?

Whoa. Hey, Dan....some guy named PROZACULA called you an idiot.

Basil,

You were talking above about some Bible stuff, so is it safe to assume you are of the faith? If so, why would you think for one second that God would think it is okay to deny a human being freedom and liberty and choice? Especially 'choice' as that is what makes us human - in His likeness.

[basils]

Phoenix: Because our involvement in Iraq has little to do with freedom as it does political agenda. And yes I am of faith, with a pretty solid understanding of the hatred that exist between muslims and jews has existed for centuries in violent conflict. It's not our place. By the way, shitty things happen to people under harsh rule all over the world, i.e., Tibet, Nigeria, Ethiopia, countless other countries, but you don't see us sending soldiers there for libety and freedom. I believe everyone has the right to live a free life, but it's not our country's responsibility to be the global police force.

Make love not war...um, something to be said for that phrase.