Let's Not Miss The Point Here

Everyone is going on about Andrew Young's comments before he half-heartedly apologized and resigned his short-lived position as a spokesman for Wal-mart. But no one is addressing the real point.

In the Sentinel interview, Young was asked about whether he was concerned Wal-Mart causes smaller, mom-and-pop stores to close.

"Well, I think they should; they ran the 'mom and pop' stores out of my neighborhood," the paper quoted Young as saying. "But you see, those are the people who have been overcharging us, selling us stale bread and bad meat and wilted vegetables. And they sold out and moved to Florida. I think they've ripped off our communities enough. First it was Jews, then it was Koreans and now it's Arabs; very few black people own these stores."

Okay, so another Civil Rights leader is a racist, gee, who knew? Certainly not Reverend Hymietown or Tawana Sharpton. Give me a break. Racism exists all over in our world and it was always going to take a generational change or three to flush it out of the bulk of the population. And that is taking place, thanks to people who were born to racism but have struggled to put it aside. So, let's put that given aside, too, for once, instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

First it was Jews, then it was Koreans and now it's Arabs; very few black people own these stores."

Well, in my neighborhood, an Italian owned the grocery store, the Barber was Irish and the Pharmacist was a Jew. So what? But, more importantly, who is missing from that list? And I am speaking primarily about urban Black America, as middle class blacks are doing very well. I mean, as we're being honest, I can actually call Colin Powell and Condi Rice Black now, right? I am not dismissing a race, but pointing out a particular problem.

We have passed an untold number of social programs, small business loans with minority preferences and inner-city set asides, and still a significant portion of our black urban population continues to play the victim, watching new immigrant populations come, prosper and go, ... while they live out their lives as victims lost in despair.

The policies are as failed as Young obviously is in terms of race relations. The sad remnants of the Civil Rights movement (one worthy piece died on a balcony years ago) have been conning urban Blacks with their victim-ology rhetoric for over forty years. How many of them have ever taken a young urban Black entrepreneur and told them, you might have to work sixty or more hours a week in that leased first store? Oh, and have your kids come by after school and work five hours, too.

The Italian grocery I grew up with had every family member, including two Aunts working there at some point between its opening and closing. They might not have liked it, but the family certainly got ahead. They wound up selling it to an Hispanic family as I recall. Forget racism, all Young's rhetoric really confirms is that he's as stuck in that failed blame somebody nonsense that White Liberal Democrat apologists use to pander for Black votes.

Instead of telling urban Blacks self-respect is something which absolutely must be earned, the current so-called Civil Rights movement has conned them into thinking it's something you wait in line to be given, or take out of the mailbox at the end of the month, courtesy of Uncle Sam.

Of course, I can't say all the above. Why, obviously, it would make me the racist. Just ask that great Civil Rights leader, Andrew Young.

Clearly, Young sees a victim who can't help themselves when he looks at a poor Black. And all I see is someone like everyone else - someone who needs to be told they have to work hard to get ahead. And if you don't, you won't and I'm not going to prop you up. Now, you tell me, which is the more genuinely racist view in all that?

Comments

[Dan Collins]

I'm not sure how much this will contribute to the discussion, but I like kimchee.

[Shawn Miller]

Amen! You have said well something that needed to be said.

[nova]

Well Wal mart DOES kill off all the little mom and pop stores. Nobody disputes that. Wal Mart has killed off all the little downtowns of every town it has come near. I know the people like the low prices. I know people like the better selection.
But growing up in the 1940s and 1950s I sure liked those little mom and pop stores.
There must be some truth in his other remarks or he would not have made them. Too bad people are so sensitive. Often times the truth gets sacrificed in all this PC nonsense.

[pwyll]

nova writes that "There must be some truth in his other remarks or he would not have made them"

What a novel idea. Does this apply only to Mr Young, or does it hold generally that all remarks contain some truth, else they would not have been made?

[err]

"Well Wal mart DOES kill off all the little mom and pop stores. Nobody disputes that. Wal Mart has killed off all the little downtowns of every town it has come near. I know the people like the low prices. I know people like the better selection.
But growing up in the 1940s and 1950s I sure liked those little mom and pop stores. "

well, so what? Do mom and pop stores have a right to be free from competition? How many of those stores closed because of mismanagement? How many folded not because they couldn't turn a profit but they couldn't make enough profit that the owners felt was worth the effort? Should some peoples' preference for small businesses override others' preference for low prices and better selection? Also, which provides more jobs, Wal-Mart or the little mom and pop stores that were killed off?

[nova]

Well as a black man Andrew Young would know if those he named had ripped off blacks in his neighborhood would he not?
I meant that Andrew Young is an intelligent man. He would know what he is talking about. I did not mean everybody who opens their mouth.
I also meant that mom are pop stores are gone. That is just the way it is. The nature of changing times. However those not born when they were around will never know how nice they were.
I like the cheap prices at Home Depot. But it really is nicer to visit my neighborhood old time hardware store. And yes it is a mom and pop store. They actually have people to wait on you. And will help you with answers to your questions.
I have only been in WalMart once in my life. Thankfully they are 30 miles away from where we live near DC. I hope they stay way there in the boondocks.

[nova]

It is amusing and very funny to me that The Washington Post buried this story in the Business section of todays paper. If Mr. Young had been a Republican it would have been on the front page of section one.
They have been beating up on George Allen for a week now trying to keep a similar story going about a Republican.

[Carol Herman]

Oh, there's more way to change generationally speaking than just waiting for this to stop within the Black population. O.J. is one example. Tiger Woods, another. (Throw in Donald Trump.) And, you'll see RICH GUYS marry beautiful women; and the women "tend to look alike." Blacks are being left in the dust. Because successful blacks move along a color line to RACE OUT. (Condi doesn't have kids. Doesn't raise any, either.)

Blacks are getting no place.

One of the real shock values, when I looked back towards the "slavery" issue; was to see that at one time Blacks were INSIDE of White households, raising the kids. Cooking the meals. (At a time when women didn't work, by the way.) And, that was long ago.

In today's world, where lots of people make jobs for themselves catering to the working class; you don't see the jobs market open to blacks to come back into the home, for wages. You hardly (in my nieghborhood), even see them as gardners. Jobs that go to Japanese and other Asian newcomers. As well as to lots of Mexicans.

No matter how you wrap this up, Blacks are still forced to live in ghettos, surrounded ALWAYS by newer groups pulling themselves up by the bootstraps.

I don't know how this is going to end. Certainly, Blacks are desperate to run out of Africa; but they're heading to Europe's mainland. And, they don't seem to be all that welcome. A very large group, too, are duped into mosques. Something about this is just a terrible stew.

Maybe, in the end, after another century, it will be noticed that genetics matter. NOT SKIN COLOR! Plenty of Jews are dark skinned. And, even more Indians, from India. They can do math well, too. So it's obviously NOT skin color, per se, that's the handicap. But when a race isn't interested in books; be they arabs or blacks, you'll run across the problem where a lucky few make it UP and out. And, then look at how they marry. See if you see what I see. While all the race baiters get very rich. Andrew Young? Way ahead of his talents. But he's got a "pretty face" for "that" crowd, so he gets elected. Heck Even Twana Brawley Sharpon had to staple his stomach to stay popular. Ditto Oprah. Ditto Star Jones. (And, stardom's no ticket, either.)

Now is there a saving grace in this mix? YES. America's mostly non-judgemental. As long as you're not a terrorist. Men get hired. Men join the army. And, men who work don't share the problems of those who "would rather not."

But just as I'm sure there are "nice muslems who do not subscribe to the terrorist violence of their religion, it hardly matters when there's a significant bulk who do.

Want a bigger change? I don't mind being called a racist. What was once racism in America was pretty far out. After OJ, and after 9/11, I think there's been a switcheroo. (Besides, this is even true for the label "GOP." It's gone mainstream. It's not for the country club set and the John Birchers. The worst of them are nowhere near the levers of power.) And, Americans like to see Blacks getting ahead. It's all about INDIVIDUALISM, though.

[Rick]

Abdrew Young has always been a motormouth on stilts. He was another of Jimmy Carter's mediocrities along with Hamilton Jordan. How the United States ever let a twerp like Young say "Africa could go Communist for a generation or two" and then let Cuban troops trample all over Mozambique and Angola..........and let Soviet troops invade Afghanistan and Khomeini replace the Shah.

Andrew Young is beneath contempt - he tells us how he hates Jews and Koreans and anyone who makes themselves independent. Shopkeeping is the bottom rung on the capitalist ladder - Wal-Mart is the Corporate that destroys independence.

Wal-Mart is a disaster but was destroyed in Germany. It could not file accounts for 5 years for fear of showing its losses. It started a price war with ALDI and REALKAUF and was destroyed - now writing off $1 billion it had to sell out to METRO AG.

Wal-Mart is lousy in Europe and has no idea how to sell to Europeans - it certainly cannot exploit its workforce as in the US. Andrew Young worked for Wal-Mart because he was a Black With Attitude available for Hire...........he cannot build, cannot respect those who do, but he can be bought.

[dick]

I read this and I was reminded of a black friend of mine. She grew up in a lower middle class family and her father insisted on all his kids getting an education. She ended up as a college professor, senior nurse administrator and after she retired a black business owner. She told me that she had joined NAACP in her town and went along to a couple of the meetings. The discussions were much like what Andrew Young said here. She got up and made an offer that as she had been a successful business owner for several years, she would volunteer to mentor any black person in the area who truly wanted to own a business. She would help them set up accounts, set up a business plan, find a site, train employees, etc, the whole 9 yards. Three years later she has had not one single person even ask about the offer and three years later there are still no black business owners in her town - and the town is majority black.

What message can one take from this? Beats me but times surely have changed. She is now in her late 70's and she told me about her father and his friends back during the depression. These friends would get together in one of their homes and discuss things. They would read books and discuss the books. They would invite professors from the university to join them for discussion on topics that they had problems understanding. They were all members of unions. The unions then had sections that were involved in educating the members and would put out lists of recommended books for the members to read. These lists were the starting point and the professors and religious leaders would help them augment the lists. All the kids of these men ended up getting an advanced education. All the kids of these men ended up in successful professions and most have gone on to form their own companies.

Until the black community gets going on some of the things that their members used to do to improve their lot, then they will keep on buying from Arabs and Jews and Latinos and Whites, not from blacks. The white community cannot fix this for them. They must fix it for themselves. The other communities can help but what is the use of that unless the initial effort is made by the community itself. That is what is missing from Andrew Young's speeches and Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's and Charlie Rangel's and Julian Bond's. That is what Thomas Sowell and Bill Cosby have been on about for years but nobody seems to listen.

[splashtc]

I believe target recently sent out a letter to all it's employees to join their political action comittee /PAC so they can influence legislature in their favor. Wonder how that would effect cargo container inspections or imminent domain decisions...
Independance is absolutely destroyed by these big -no i in team-corporations.

[nova]

Now for some good news.
http://www.pr.usm.edu/oola1.htm

[Phoenix]

I think Wal-Mart is at the top of corporations that employ more people than any other. Every ask one of the employees in a Wal-Mart where something is? They stop whatever it is they are doing and walk you right to that item. Service. I live in a Top Ten Best Small Towns in America near the DC conurbation, and not one 'mom 'n pop' store went out of business when Wal-Mart moved in. All the 'mom's' and 'pop's' sneak to Wal-Mart to buy their goods to sell in their stores. Get real. If your little, old-fashioned store is good, Wal-Mart is not going to put it out of business. That is a myth.

My community has a lot of blacks, and I taught a majority of them. On parent/teachers night guess who came to see me? The black parents. 80% of the parents who bothered to come in were black. They were wonderful people, and every one of them wanted to know what they could do to help. The tide is changing, slowly but surely, but it will be generations before the parity of individualism and personal effort sinks in. As long as the victimologists are out there spewing their brand of racism, it will be a tough fight. It is pretty depressing, but I like to think most black people can see through it.

Who knows. I ended up leaving teaching because of a black student who played the victim game and managed to turn the PC weenies who administer schools these days into blithering idiots because I dug in my heels and demanded accountability. I ended up walking away after an eighteen-month fight that nearly killed me. Sad stuff. If schools would stand up and slam-dunk the victim game, this problem might fix itself. Let the military run public schools. That would fix it.

Now, I'm off to Wal-Mart to be greeted by a sweet old person and to get some nice service. .... plus a whole lot of things I didn't think I needed. :}

[nova]

Well thankfully there are no WalMarts inside the beltway in Washington D.C. I am with those people who want to keep WalMart out of the cities. WalMart kills mom and pop stores everywhere they go. Glad to see the Democrats and unions joining up to keep WalMart out of the cities.
I hope WalMart will stay out in exurbia where they belong.

[Phoenix]

Right. And who do the Dems think is their base? Democrats care soooo much about the welfare of the common people. That's great - take away the one thing, the big enterprise that has given the 'common' man (and everyone else) some extra spending money to buy cars and houses and private school and SAT lessons for junior and kill it.

That makes sense.

I wonder how much money is added to local coffers by the presence of a Wal-Mart. How many job opportunities does a Wal-Mart provide a community?

The 'Mom 'n Pop' whine is beginning to sound really smarmy and stupid. And elitist. Mom 'n Pop will stay in business if they run a good business. Boo hoo if they don't.

[nova]

Well if Pat Buchanan says it is so. Then it is so.

The challenges to Wal-Mart are hardly new: it has been the target of political attacks as far back as when Patrick J. Buchanan ran for the Republican presidential nomination in 1996, and said Wal-Mart was guilty of “gigantism” for crushing smaller businesses.

[Phoenix]

What utter poop.

[nova]

I guess that you had no intelligent response to Pat Buchanan's remarks about how Wal Mart crushes smaller businesses.

[Phoenix]

No need to guess. I answered poop with poop.

[rwilymz]

"...response to Pat Buchanan's remarks about how Wal Mart crushes smaller businesses"

Wal*Mart crushes smaller businesses?

Whoa! Stop the presses.

[Didn't I see this in a South Park last year? http://imdb.com/title/tt0763048/]

To kill Wal*Mart you must stab its heart.

You, the customer seeking lower prices, are the heart of Wal*Mart.

Do the math.

[nova]

I dont shop at WalMart. I dont live anywhere near one. Between Phoenix poop and Patrick Buchanan I will agree with Patrick Buchanan. WalMart crushes smaller businesses. WalMart has killed off all the main streets of all the little towns in America. You can take your big box stores and go live in them. They are well suited for your sterile cookie cutter lifestyle.

[rwilymz]

"They are well suited for your sterile cookie cutter lifestyle."

My sterile cookie lifestyle, eh? Wanna come home with me and view my sterility? It'll be somewhere between shovelling the sheepshit out of the barn and feeding my son's chickens.

But, since I'm from the same cutter as every other cookie, who can't say the same thing? eh? Must be old hat to you.

[Phoenix]

Nova,

If you want to be credible in a debate, do not generalize. You will lose in your opening statement if it's like this:

"WalMart has killed off all the main streets of all the little towns in America. " <--- That is gasp-worthy ignorant.

[nova]

Phoenix: If you want to be credible in a debate you must be willing to accept and acknowledge the FACT that WalMart kills off small businesses. If you cant accpet that FACT and acknowledge it then you are hoppelessly ignorant. As far as killing off Main Street in small American towns I guess you dont get around very much. Plus you are probably too young to know what I am talking about.

[rwilymz]

"If you want to be credible in a debate you must be willing to accept and acknowledge the FACT that WalMart kills off small businesses"

I haven't seen anyone denying that, "nova". Particularly "phoenix". I saw phoe be completely **unsympathetic**, but not denying it.

Needless to say, I live in a small town. Between two of them, actually. We have a Walmart. And a Target. And a Kohl's. And a Lowe's and Home Depot. Used to have a K-Mart as well, but then they had problems. ...with Walmart.

We also have two fairly thriving "main streets".

From this evidence, it would seem that Walmart is more dangerous to other chain stores than anything else.

We were told the same thing when Home Depot arrived: it'll kill the grandpop hardware stores on Main Street. Our grandpop hardware store is Kriege Hardware, and they are on Vandalia street, but I'm not going to get mired in the details. You're being metaphorical, I get it.

Home Depot opened more than 6 years ago. Lowe's opened two years ago. Kriege Hardware is still there. Still open. Still selling 19-cent carriage bolts for 35 cents. What is in danger of closing is the chain store hardware/lumber "Do It Center", and the only reason I can think of that they aren't closed yet is because they are the local John Deere dealer.

Kriege's will stay open until grandpop decides to retire.

But in general, yes, large chains with better pricing pick off the smaller places with higher margins. That's the way it works.

There is no denial in lack of sympathy: awwwwww!

[nova]

rwilymz: Well thanks for all the information from the home front. You sound like you know what you are talking about. I appreciate it very much.
It is just that I am 66 years old and am bitching and moaning about what has happened in America with the arrival of all the chain stores and chain restuarants. The sameness of it all.Blandsville,U.S.A.
We were just out in Montana to Glacier National Park. We stayed in Whitefish the first night. Nice old time small town. No chain stores. 20 miles away is Kalispell. And there all the chain stores have arrived. And fast food chains too. It looks at though the Home Depot and all the rest are very recent arrivals. But when one big box comes they all come. And yes I guess that is where younger people would want to live since it would make them feel they are part of present day America.
I saw the death of main street in many small towns. They became empty when Walmart arrived. The smaller businesses closed and stores were empty and then opened up as antique stores. Now I know things keep changing and maybe there is and/or will be a move back to the downtowns. I hope so. Shopping at Tyson's Corner always makes me want to throw up. The utter blandness of it all. The enclosed air conditoned nightmare of it all. The total materialism of it all.
At least in the good old days you could go to the town square and sit on a bench and talk to your friends in the open air.
I always thought when I got old I would be one of those old guys sitting on the bench whittling away. Well guess what? That bench is gone and that main street is a ghost town.
For a very good depiction of what I am talking about see the film THE LAST PICTURE SHOW.
Larry McMurtry went back to his small town(Archer City, Texas)and bought up all the empty stores and failed businesses and filled them with his books. Millions of books. When he was growing up in Archer CIty in the 1950s there were NO books in that town.
Anyway, he gave it a go as a bookseller in Archer City recently but has closed all the stores and moved to Arizona. Since Archer city is halfway between Dallas and Oklahoma City no one is interested in driving 2 or 300 miles to look at books. More so now that gas prices have gone up.
I wonder if you and phoenix are too young to remember what small towns in the U.S.A. were like in the 1940s and 1950s. I am just being nostalgic for a lost way of life.
And when I was real small during WW2 I can remember my grandmother taking me to the butcher shop.
But yes everyone got real exicted when the first SUPERMARKET showed up in town.

[Original Rick]

"bitching and moaning about what has happened in America with the arrival of all the chain stores and chain restuarants. The sameness of it all.Blandsville,U.S.A."

NoVa, Gots to agree with you there. Traveling pretty much sucks if you don't get off the interstate. Love those mom and pop greasy spoons where I can REALLY have it my way.

[mike]

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