D2

Comments

[longthomas]

hey, Althor, you all come back now, ya hear?

[longthomas]

Sigmund Freud.

Posted by: Althor | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:44 PM

link?

or trying to trade on his reputation, since you have none of your own, ya know?

[longthomas]

work, and you still experience cravings, introduce one of these 'Joran Suppositories' up your anus, and call me in the morning."

Sigmund Freud.

Posted by: Althor | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:44 PM

why are all your comments genitocentric in nature, ya know?
mommy not train you right?

[longthomas]

Hey LT, have you read over at SM the comments from some of the posters from Holland, since the Jenson show aired. They've now had their eyes opened to the many variations Joran's told in this case.....very interesting.

Posted by: Lexy | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:57 PM

yes, and how quickly we forget that the Nederlands do not have freedom of the press, and the govt has an official line out on all the issues. thanks for reminding me to go back, i saw some of this earlier today, but someone reminded me that since Linda is boycotting me, i would have time to check the ward over here on the front page.

[longthomas]

What anyone with the least bit of logic wonders, is what is the purpose of you keep posting your?!?!

Althor

Posted by: Althor | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:51 PM

thats not a clever cumback today, are you off your game, today,ya know.

[longthomas]

PM

What?!?! You mean to tell me that "moronic" people are still contributing to this bitch's account?!?!

That would be so utterly unbelievable, that it merits being in Ripley's!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:34 PM

you are losing reality, there is now enough in the fund to continue the investigation for at least twenty years...........where have you been? and where is that cite that i asked for?

[Lexy]

Hey LT, have you read over at SM the comments from some of the posters from Holland, since the Jenson show aired. They've now had their eyes opened to the many variations Joran's told in this case.....very interesting.

[Althor]

Quote: why do you keep posting your madness?

Posted by: longthomas | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:30 PM

What anyone with the least bit of logic wonders, is what is the purpose of you keep posting your?!?!

Althor

[Althor]

As I commented before, if Sigmund Freud was still alive, this is what he would say and diagnose about you guys:

"Lie on the couch please. Now, tell me about your mother....err I mean about your obsession with Natalee Holloway"

"Ahhh! You are suffering from a variation of the "Oedipus Complex": "Nataleepussy Copmplex"! You are also showing signs of 'Beth Withdrawal Syndrome.'"

"I prescribe for you to get involved in other human interaction, other than to keep indulging this 'mania' like a dog chasing its own tail."

"As for the 'Beth Withdrawal Syndrome' use this 'I love you Beth' patch on your arm. It works in a manner similar to that of nicotine patches for those trying to quit smoking. However, if that doesn't work, and you still experience cravings, introduce one of these 'Joran Suppositories' up your anus, and call me in the morning."

Sigmund Freud.

[Althor]

Quote: "...they can at last declare her officially dead, and collect the life insurance money...now that donations into the AM South Bank have dried up!"

Posted by: Althor | Tuesday, September 26, 2006 at 12:18 AM

link please

Posted by: longthomas | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:27
PM

What?!?! You mean to tell me that "moronic" people are still contributing to this bitch's account?!?!

That would be so utterly unbelievable, that it merits being in Ripley's!!!

Althor

[longthomas]

Althor:

Have anything intelligent to add today, or are you here because you are lonely?

[longthomas]

Nothing much will come of it, but I am sure that it will give you all enough "fodder" to endure another year of posting madness on this thread!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 01:36 PM

why do you keep posting your madness?

[longthomas]

they can at last declare her officially dead, and collect the life insurance money...now that donations into the AM South Bank have dried up!

Posted by: Althor | Tuesday, September 26, 2006 at 12:18 AM

link please

[longthomas]

they can at last declare her officially dead, and collect the life insurance money...now that donations into the AM South Bank have dried up!

Posted by: Althor | Tuesday, September 26, 2006 at 12:18 AM

link please

[Lexy]

Lexy, jurors aren't asked, at least in the USA, about reasonable doubt about innocence, but reasonable doubt of guilt.

Posted by: kaycee77025 | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 02:06 PM

LOL, you're right and I hope I'm never on a jury!....so just between you and me, I still have reasonable doubt of his innocence, even though there is no hard-core proof and I'm under no illusions that he will ever be charged with Natalee's disappearance and/or demise.

[kaycee77025]

Lexy, jurors aren't asked, at least in the USA, about reasonable doubt about innocence, but reasonable doubt of guilt.

[Lexy]

There is NOTHING to point to any scenario ... NOTHING. It's just a bunch of "I believe"s and "I think"s and "I know"s.
Posted by: kaycee77025 | Friday, September 29, 2006 at 10:35 AM

Exactly...and whenever I try to get passed Joran up and leaving her on the beach where no one else seemed to be, I get blocked by all the lies he has told. I do NOT know with 100% certainty that he or the Kalpoes are responsible for Natalee's disappearance...but to be honest, if I was a juror right now, I would have 'reasonable doubt' of his innocence. I've read this case from the beginning and what I've noticed recently, is that more and more people are commenting that "something isn't right" with all the statements made by Joran and to a lesser degree the lack of statements by the Kalpoe brothers. I don't know, sometimes a person can weave themselves into a corner when they tell a lie to get out of another lie. What happened to Natalee Holloway and will we ever find out...sigh.

[Althor]

Quote: Beth will be on Greta tonight. Get your cheap shots ready!

Posted by: windy city | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 04:38 PM

So very true! It is utterly unbelievable!!! No sooner do you get a bit of quiet on these sick blogs, and someone resurrects some stupid theory that has been discussed, dissected, and debunked "ad nauseam" in the past !!!

And Lo! What is this?!?! None other than the "Bitch" herself, like some ungodly Poltergeist that simply refuses to go away from the "limelight," comes Beth back to "haunt us" all, from Holland, again, with her shrill wails?!?!

Next she will be broadcasting from Hezbollah headquarters in Lebanon, and will have a "terrorist's Fatwa" on Joran's head, while she discusses Nasrallah's assistance in finding what hapened to her "Girl Gone Wild Daughter" with Greta!!!!!

When will this bitch simply crawl away and die?!?!

No such luck Althor. Updates on Greta tonight!!!!

Makes me feel like singing that song from the "Wizard of Oz": "Ding Dong the Bitch is dead...except she isn't, and just as always, and far more than any care she may have ever had for her daughter, she must feed her "insatiable lust" for the "LIMELIGHT"!!!

Nothing much will come of it, but I am sure that it will give you all enough "fodder" to endure another year of posting madness on this thread!!!

Althor

[kaycee77025]

Kaycee,
There is about an hour and a half difference in their posts. Maybe your clock is broken.
Posted by: windy city | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 04:40 PM

It's seems to have been that way ever since I brought up the issue a bit back. Look, you're convicting someone of murder with scant evidence. I'm saying someone might be playing online with scant evidence. I can guess which is worse in your opinion?

[kaycee77025]

Kaycee,
There is about an hour and a half difference in their posts. Maybe your clock is broken.
Posted by: windy city | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 04:40 PM

It's seems to have been that way ever since I brought up the issue a bit back. Look, you're convicting someone of murder with scant evidence. I'm saying someone might be playing online with scant evidence. I can guess which is worse in your opinion?

[kaycee77025]

Most likely a tipsy Natalee went skinny dipping and misjudged conditions, swimming past the sandbar to be swept out to sea.

Posted by: kaycee77025 | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 02:58 PM
I would really like the supporters of Joran to give a plausible scenario of what they think happened to Natalee after Joran says he left her on the beach. Not including..she ran away with the spoon...her and her clothes drifted out to sea...jack the ripper was also on the beach that night. TIA
Posted by: Lexy | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 08:27 PM

It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Let's throw out all the scenarios xxx suggested which covers a lot. Yeah, why not quote xxx's post and suggest that?
What is so implausible about Natalee going for an early morning swim .. assuming she could swim. It seems you want the few plausible scenarios thrown out; especially when you want us to believe everything up to NH and Joran being left at the beach ... will you limit all your scenarios from there on?
There is NOTHING to point to any scenario ... NOTHING. It's just a bunch of "I believe"s and "I think"s and "I know"s.
The problem is you accuse anyone who insists on proof to be a Joran believer. Jack, who definitely wants proof, has time and again said Joran's actions had been very suspicious; that he would not make a choice of innocence or guilt until there was proof. xxx on the other hand says Joran is guilty because he believes it, and it seems if he can just puzzle the right scenario together all the pieces will fall in place and Joran's guilt will be proven.
So, it's not like people like jack and I are true believers, we just want some real evidence. You and xxx are the true believers here.

[Joranknows]

Natalee was raped by Joran at his house and she died, and Paulus helped get rid on the body. Natalle is deceased.

http://www.youtube.com/v/TNM32lS81Zc

http://www.youtube.com/v/to_Md4i2_Lk

http://www.youtube.com/v/THT3vIALktU

[lyannea]

We're not obsessed with Natalee Holloway.
We're witness(thanks to Beth Holloway) to what can happen when a wrong decision is made.

We're all capable, in any circumstance, in making a wrong decision, taking a wrong turn, that could altimately change the course of our lives.
Someone's decision cost Natalee her life.
One day we could be sitting on a beach with friends and the next day, we're burned toast or, even yet, fried.

It can happen to anyone.
Thanks, Beth, for allowing us to be witness to someone's bad or wrong decision,
Whose- hopefully, one day, we'll know

[Lexy]

Most likely a tipsy Natalee went skinny dipping and misjudged conditions, swimming past the sandbar to be swept out to sea.

Posted by: kaycee77025 | Thursday, September 28, 2006 at 02:58 PM

I would really like the supporters of Joran to give a plausible scenario of what they think happened to Natalee after Joran says he left her on the beach. Not including..she ran away with the spoon...her and her clothes drifted out to sea...jack the ripper was also on the beach that night. TIA

[Chocolat]

Ahhhh! Silence at last after a year and a half!!! How sweet the sounds of silence!

Nighty nite Beth! Zzzzz....

Althor :D

Posted by: Althor | Monday, September 25, 2006 at 03:54 AM
================

Beth - the little engine that could. Hope for loved ones all over the world.

[windy city]

Kaycee,
There is about an hour and a half difference in their posts. Maybe your clock is broken.

[windy city]

FYI Althor,

Beth will be on Greta tonight. Get your cheap shots ready!

[kaycee77025]

It's so strange the "two of you" are always online at the same time.

[jack]

"It's possible he left her at the beach passed out and someone else killed her but very unlikely to be victimized by two sets of people in a single night."

Thats assuming that Joran DID victimize her , though

[kaycee77025]

Most likely a tipsy Natalee went skinny dipping and misjudged conditions, swimming past the sandbar to be swept out to sea.

[xxx]

K2 probably dropped Joran and Natalee off, probably at the beach, though I am still not 100% convinced that K2 are not still lying about the location and what happened before they left the two of them, wherever they went....there Natalee died, probably as a result of a rape or attempted rape, Joran either put her in a dumpster or swam out with her body beyond the sandbar.

It's possible he left her at the beach passed out and someone else killed her but very unlikely to be victimized by two sets of people in a single night.

The most recent K2 statements released seem to support the Kalpoes innocence...at least innocence of knowing what happened to Natalee ultimately, they may or may not have witnessed some level of sexual assault in the car, I tend to think they did...hence Deepak's obsession with the radio volume...he couldn't hear what was happening in the back seat...

[wasnotthere]

I am sure that this is what happend - based on the feeling I get from all the info out there:

The group left C&c's togther - and drove to the hotel area. Joran was getting some action - and he split with NH - went to the beach. I think they parted as she wouldn't go for the whole deal. He tried to reach the bros but they drove home. So he walked home. done

NH in the meantime headed back to her hotel and on the way met with somebody - perhaps a jealous friend or a freak or whatever - and this led to her dissappearance. We don't know who she met - but someone who caused her to disappear that night.
It is highly likley it was someone in a hotel - and she ended up in there room and was there until morning or longer. We dont know if something bad happed to her there or not. I'd say probably not killed as it is hard to sneak a corpse out f a hotel. In any event - she was taken from the hotel later and moved somewhere else and eventually either taken off the island (dead or alive) or hidden extreemly well (less likley. If taken off the island likley for kidnap purposes - ransom or some kind of human trafficing. If ransom - things got too blown up and the plan was abandoned wisley and she was likley disposed of. If trafficed - not likley a prostitute as she would probably be found by now - more likley some form of personal servatude. This is the best scnerio for the family to hope for.

[wasnotthere]

Everyone remember - we are dealing with a bunch of dorky spoiled teens here - no way they pulled this crime off - no way. Everyone who thinks they did it is WRONG - sorry

[SETHLEVINETHEJEW]

Althor is correct! It's all about the fame and notoriety that Beth has received looking for her child. Now it's on to the cash and the social scene she will create everywhere she goes, and she will be able to afford it as well. I wonder where Juuug is these days?

[junebugofva]

Thank you Althor, but no amount of money can ever make up for the loss/death of one's child. Unless you were a child that wasn't loved.

[SETHLEVINETHEJEW]

How do you know if you wasnotthere? You're right, Joran and those Kalpoe brothers did it, and they know it. You know it too even though you wasnotthere. So brown is golden only when the golden brown is brown.

[wasnotthere]

I am so pissed off at this case - nothing is happening - and lets face it - those boys didnt do it - i like the person above who says it was in Jorans house - lol

NH is missing because she was kidnapped - figure it out dudes.

We must make a rule on here - no more assuming joran did it - this concept has been over explored here

[Althor]

Quote: Ahhhh! Silence at last after a year and a half!!! How sweet the sounds of silence!

Nighty nite Beth! Zzzzz....

Althor :D

Posted by: Althor | Monday, September 25, 2006 at 03:54 AM

Bah! Should have left it up to "Freud" to close this thread!
Now the yapping got going again: "Beth, Beth, where are youooo???"

LOL!

Althor :)

P.S. Junebuqofva, your sentiments about Natalee, her parents, and closure are very noble indeed, but don't worry, Natalee's parents will finally find the closure they need when in four more years they can at last declare her officially dead, and collect the life insurance money...now that donations into the AM South Bank have dried up!

[junebugofva]

Natalee's death was an accident. It occurred in Joran's part of his parent's house. The older Kalpoe brother was there too. Both of them had or were having sex with her in her drunken state. She vomited from too much to drink and then choked to death. This type of accident occurs frequently in young people who don't normally drink. It can be quite difficult to get medical help in time to save the person.

Joran hit the panic button and begged his father to help him, which he did. They disposed of the body in Kalpoe's car so no evidence could be found in the father's auto. They dumped her body on the far side of the island where the current does not carry the body back in. The father knew about these currents. They discussed calling the police (which they should have done, as it was an accident) but because of Paulus' vain reputation, he decided to dump the body, thus the statement, no body, no case.

Sad to say, but her remains will never be found. And Joran will never confess because in his mind he is not guilty of murder, just of being a witness to a tragic accident. Like he said, someday he will tell what really happened. Maybe after his father is dead. If anyone breaks, it would be the Kalpoe brother, but he has too much to lose because Paulus pays him to keep quiet. That is why there is no law suit for false arrest.

Now it is time to let it rest, and let Natalee rest in peace in the ocean. I only wish that her parents will be able to find some peace in their lives.

[blaberous]

I would like to put in my 2 cents here.

Everyone here is slightly off the right path. There is much talk and many convinced people who seem to believe that the boys and the brothers did it along with the dj Steve Croes. Main and only evidence - they all lied at some point and we know that.
This is interesting, very interesting - and over and over and over we circle though all the crap that has come out and it ends up back at them once again. But they are free, no evidence, no body - nothing. In fact its hard to build any good case against them. How would they perminanly dispose of a body in a matter of less then an hour? maybe some luck was involved? fact is they couldnt do it. There is no way. They had neither the tools or expertise to think that through.
the main problemhere is we are all stuck like magnets to the idea that because they lied when they did - they must be guilty.

These guys definatly lied we know that. We cant believe any of the info they have told us. So when they say they are innocent - we dont believe them.
Guess what - they might be inocent. Im not going to get into why they lied when they did - there are many reasons - all possible. They also might be guilty. Lets explore both paths starting with Guilt:

Guilty: Here they took here - somewhere, killed her for some reason and then hid her body somewhere. Where did they take her - somewhere on the island near the hotel. How did they kill her - no guns, knives or weapons - i supposed by hand - strangled perhaps - maybe the car crobar? - seems kinda savage and far fetched to me - but like you all - lets go with this - so they took her somewhere near the hotel - killed her by hand - probably strangled her. Why -- seems everyone here thinks it is because they raped herand didnt want her to tell - Good enough reason - no other reason comes to mind. Now they must have gone to work to hide her - extreemly well - somewhere that nobody will ever find her - and they have - maybe 1/2 hr or an hour to do this. Ok no shovels, no weights, no rope, no body bag, no hydrocholic acid, ....hmm what to do here? Maybe they got some quick help - a friend with a boat - call him - explan they killed a girl - asked if he would get involved - sure I will - then get him to come - drag the body on the boat and out to sea - and far enough where she wont float to shore and weihted so she wont re surface - then rush back to totally norml life and look innocent - well - maybe. In any respect - this is looking a bit thin. All possible however.

Innocent: ok here - the boys take her somewhere - Joran does whatever young kids do with her - then bolts. Next he hears of her she is missing and starts to BS like crazy when the parents and cops arrive and drags his buddies into the BS, all the while being innocent. The BS makes him look guilty - so they haul him in with no real evidence - and the press an everyone else - convince themselves he did it. The police got their man - all other leads and possibilities are abandond - left to go cold - but who cares - this kid will crack. Time ticks - tick tick tick - guess what - no evidence in the evidence file, no body, the kid is NOT cracking, nor are his friends, they seem like a bunch of dorky teens, - basicallt the whole investigtion and case is nothing but CRAP now. They made the big mistake of convincing themselves the wrong guy did it - opps and they simply did not look for other possibilities until it was too late. This gave ample time for those really involved here - to cover their tracks and this they did. All the reporters, the bloggers, the tourism folks - everyone wanted Joran to be the man - and they screwed this whole thing up.

Back to Reality: So here is both sides - you pick a side I guess -

[blaberous]

wow - there is soo much talk re this girl

[JW]

We will quietly wait for justice as we plan our vacations to anywhere but Aruba.

[Althor]

Ahhhh! Silence at last after a year and a half!!! How sweet the sounds of silence!

Nighty nite Beth! Zzzzz....

Althor :D

[Althor]

Guys, you still discussing this??? Isn't it time to go see your psychoanalyst?!?!

This is what Sigmund Freud, if he was still alive, would say and diagnose about you guys:

"Lie on the couch please. Now, tell me about your mother....err I mean about your obsession with Natalee Holloway"

"Ahhh! You are suffering from a variation of the "Oedipus Complex": "Nataleepussy Copmplex"! You are also showing signs of 'Beth Withdrawal Syndrome.'"

"I prescribe for you to get involved in other human interaction, other than to keep indulging this 'mania' like a dog chasing its own tail."

"As for the 'Beth Withdrawal Syndrome' use this 'I love you Beth' patch on your arm. It works in a manner similar to that of nicotine patches for those trying to quit smoking. However, if that doesn't work, and you still experience cravings, introduce one of these 'Joran Suppositories' up your anus, and call me in the morning."

Sigmund Freud.

[jack]

And the moral of the story is when you lie to police over and over again some mean people like myself will believe you are guilty of horrible crimes, which is why our mothers told us to tell the truth and not lie:)

Posted by: xxx | Friday, September 22, 2006 at 01:57 PM

Most certainly yes . If the suspects are indeed innocent they are still for most part themselves responsible for the suspicious attention that they attracted towards themselves .

[xxx]

And the moral of the story is when you lie to police over and over again some mean people like myself will believe you are guilty of horrible crimes, which is why our mothers told us to tell the truth and not lie:)

[jack]

But we don't know and won't ever know if he gave any advice along the lines of leading him into understanding that a "true" story that involved no witnesses, an isolated area...would be easier to manage than a story involving security guards and camera range drop offs...

Posted by: xxx | Friday, September 22, 2006 at 01:45 PM

We dont , and that gives you the freedom to use your imagination to assume anythng that you would like to believe happened .

[xxx]

I think Joran's father knows in his heart his son is lying and has known all along, but I believe he let himself believe the HI story was the truth...

But we don't know and won't ever know if he gave any advice along the lines of leading him into understanding that a "true" story that involved no witnesses, an isolated area...would be easier to manage than a story involving security guards and camera range drop offs...

[jack]

His father had ten days to prepare him for what was coming and he seems to have done a wonderful job.

Posted by: xxx | Friday, September 22, 2006 at 01:41 PM

Again , it seems that his father had believed in the HI story all along during those 10 days .

[xxx]

Freddy allegedly told Joran's PARENTS about the beach story before he told police.

I don't think we have the timeline of when Freddy told the sporter's parents, when he told police and how soon after the sporter became a truth teller....

His father had ten days to prepare him for what was coming and he seems to have done a wonderful job.