Hezbollah Still Exploiting UN Positions

I heard a pundit on the radio last night claim that the reason we were hearing so many anti-Israel and anti-US statements out of the UN recently is because Kofi and his crew's terms are up in five months and they feel free to speak their mind. That should make you feel real good, as our Federal government continues to dump money into that swamp.

One might almost wonder why Kofi is keeping the failed UN peace keepers there with reports like this. Their presence seems obviously helpful to Hezbollah if you ask me.

Comments

[xxx]

Isn't our federal government now touting the need for everyone to abide by the UN resolution about disarming Hezbollah? Isn't Israle talking about a UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon??

As is typical, the UN is all good and wonderful when it suits the purposes of the U.S., but when it doesn't, then its just a no good waste of money.

It's funny, how it is only the Israelis that have killed UN observers....maybe those Hezbollah guys arent' as stupid as everyone thinks they are...or maybe the Israelis aren't the white hats that everyone thinks they are. One might wonder if maybe the Israelis are shelling the UN observers because they dont' want anyone there observering the carnage.....even though it isn't shown on US TV..dead children, even Arab children, arouse sympathy of all but the most rabid neocons, and believe that those images are being shown all over the Middle East and Europe.

The entire world with the exception of the United States has condemmed Israel's invasion of Lebanon as out of control. Ya know, sometimes when everyone tells you that you are wrong, it is advisable to take a long hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate whether you are wrong or not.

I thought the debacle we created in Iraq might at least make the crazy neocons pause, but apparently there is no defeat they cannot reconstruct as a victory or a challenge that needs to be met. The definition of a zealot.

[rwilymz]

"the UN is all good and wonderful when it suits the purposes of the U.S., but when it doesn't, then its just a no good waste of money"

You'd expect otherwise?

"it is only the Israelis that have killed UN observers"

Bosnia... Congo... Somalia... "UN" troops have been killed the world over.

"maybe those Hezbollah guys arent' as stupid as everyone thinks they are"

Of course not. Fire from UN positions, run, wait until the response-fire is over, move back to fire from UN positions ...

The UN is expressly forbidden to take an active role in the hostilities, which makes them sitting ducks in shiny white helmets. If *you* were a band of brigandes, outmanned and outgunned, what would *you* do? ...if you were smart rather than merely being the sanctimonious pontificator you play on the 'net?

"dead children, even Arab children, arouse sympathy of all but the most rabid neocons"

Pal-arab "children" are war-fodder, made war-fodder by their loving parents, who are following the orders of their Hamas/Hezbollah commanders.

Sympathy directed at "children" who take an active roll in war-making is entirely misdirected.

"The entire world with the exception of the United States has condemmed Israel's invasion of Lebanon as out of control."

Not exactly, but it certainly meets with the approval of your biases to think so.

With the amount of fantastical air castles you're cutting out of whole cloth, here, you might do well to re-evaluate who the zealot is.

[xxx]

How exactly are the parents of the dead Lebanese civilians to blame for their deaths?

These are CIVILIANS, many of whom, initially, were against Hezbollah, not Hezbollah affiliated or sympathizers, just Lebanese people living in Southern Lebanon.

A five yeard old, or a baby cannot take an active roll in war making no matter how much you want to make it so. The Lebanese civilians that have died as a result of Israeli attacks are innocent civilians. The dead children are innocent children, not terrorist children or Hezbollah children.

I suppose the 500,000 Lebanese who are now homeless also 'deserved it'??

And don't give me any nonsense about they deserved it or they would have gotten rid of Hezbollah. I can't get rid of George Bush or the scurge of right wing fantantics in the US, why should a bunch of poor Arabs be able to get rid of Hezbollah.

I am innocent of the crimes committed by Bush, just like these Lebanese citizens are innocent of any crimes committed by Hezbollah.

[old trooper]

I have spent 12 years of my adult life in the Middle East. i am educated beyond post graduate level. I realize that some folks post based upon emotion, bias, arrogance, ignorance or some odd fascinition of personal vanity at having their keystrokes appear on a forum like this.

Ok, you have that moment of gratification courtesy of Dan Rhiel.

Every posted response that I have read so far indicates that a lack of personal experience or history of past events in the Middle East or a simple minded pop culture squirrel cage logic prompted the previous posts.

Here`s how it works in the "Real World" kids:

If you have nothing for knowlege or experience on the subject that you posted on, know that people like me will respond with facts and truths that you have never seen or heard about. So far, the posters here on this topic exhibit all of the intellect of my Grandmother`s parrot. That bird will repeat what it heard from fools, everything. It repeats what it heard last. Period. The parrot is an embarrassment, as are You.

I am tempted to stop reading this tripe and stop posting here because the bullshit from the un-informed and fatally biased is almost knee deep.

So...either know your subject or keep your knee jerk, impulsive bullshit to yourselves. I am not fooled by bold nonsense. That is in total all that I see offered by You tonight.

[splashtc]

Why was Hezbollah so well fortified with bombs, bunkers, trained soldiers ... on the border. ? Did the UN observers report this? Most likely they were waiting for word from Iran to attack and kill jewish civilians and children. Who gave them the bombs.

[kate]

With Hezbollah so close to UNIFIL, how did UNIFIL not see all the missiles being trucked in? The UN is useless except for maybe handing out bottled water after the fact. As far as the civilian's, they were warned to get out. I would have strapped my baby on my back and started walking out. There were reports of some children playing outside, why? Is Hezbollah a family affair? Regardless, I'm sure innocent people were killed and that is indeed tragic. It's also tragic that some can't leave one tiny little country like Israel alone.

[old trooper]

UNIFIL forces have been in place at outposts throughout Lebanon for 23 years. They have reported to the UN and their reports were obviously filtered by the UN agency. The build up in fortifications, munitions and hezbollah troop movements were easily observed but sponsored by the Lebanese Government. The Lebanese Army was infiltrated by Hezbollah over 15 years ago. That move was in clear violation of UN Resolution 1559.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/lebanon/res1559.htm

If you have not read it stop here!
Do not post any tripe about war crimes or other nonsense.
The UN and the State of Lebanon did not comply with this resolution, nor did the UN ever attempt to enforce it.

The UN now has all of the authority and integrity of the old League of Nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations

It cost too much and accomplished nothing as well.

The League was a posturing pompous band of career diplomats that inevitably failed , as has the Corrupt and totally Inept UN.

Syria and Iran supply all of the ordinance necessary for hezbollah to initiate this regional warfare.
Israel, however is held to another standard by both the UN and the MSM.

It is another war for survival for Israel and another Islamic sponsored attempt to commit the genocide necessary to wipe Israel off the earth.

Hezbollah had 23 years to construct fortifications, acquire and store ordinance and recruit from the Lebanese population, under supervision of Iran and Syria, the where-withall to start this fight....all under the 'vigilance' of the UNFIL force. These are facts. Not withstanding politics or religion.

Now you have it. And don`t ask about Beirut in the 80`s. Or Eastern Europe..I saw that as well.

"Where Blue Helmets Go, the Problem Grows"

[rwilymz]

"These are CIVILIANS"

Absence of a uniform does not a civilian make, 'x'. Open your eyes and spend time in the real world.

"A five yeard old, or a baby cannot take an active roll in war making..."

You have a point there, of course, but the 6 year old who's handed a wad of ordnance and told to deliver it to the bunker up the hill because "who would suspect a cuddly tyke wandering the hills looking for his goat or soccer ball" is.

This is a whole 'nother culture over there, 'x', and one that does not use our western sensibilities when conducting even their daily lives, let alone prosecuting a guerrila war. But they understand something about us in the west: we get all teary-eyed when "children" are involved, and many of us declare that we have to bring foreign policy to a screeching halt if a child stumbles out into the cross-walk of a war.

Knowing this, they arm those "children", tell them to go stumbling out into the cross-walk, we have simpletonic boobs like you demanding that we bring our foreign policy to a screeching halt, and they prosecute the war against us.

Their "children" are military couriers, 'x'. Calling them "children" or "civilians", even in capital letters, doesn't change that. That's the reason the GenCons were written the way they were written. When "civilians" play war through deception, it engangers not merely those playing war, but also their neighbors and their neighbors' neighbors.

"don't give me any nonsense about they deserved it or they would have gotten rid of Hezbollah"

That would sound too much like Ward Churchill, wouldn't it? "Little Eichmanns" and all.

"I am innocent of the crimes committed by Bush"

1] list for me just one of those "crimes", the "law" it violates, and the authority anyone has to prosecute;
2] "they" don't think you're "innocent". Do "they", 'x'? The answer is "no they don't", because the reality is: "they" believe the world is black and white, and if you are not among "the muslim nation" [note: singular], then you are the enemy, a "zionist" and a "crusader", and you have -- according to "them" -- a red target painted on your torso.

And the further reality is: this is the way "they" have viewed the world for roughly 1,300 years, giving the west all during that time such fun-filled intrigues as two-pronged invasions of Europe; Ottoman vassal states throughout central Europe starting a millenium's worth of wars, not to mention world wars; a half century of Barbary piracy.

We in the west tend to forget such things for the simple reason that most of us who never bothered to pay attention to history class -- 'x' -- are seeing that the west is now the dominant world power in the east-west dichotomy, and not the fairly evenly-matched power bases of the post-renaissance world, or the east-dominated alignment of the post-Roman -> middle-ages world.

Most modern simpletons consider Arabs and muslims to be these docile, peaceful critters who will follow you around the bazaar lowering prices like mad until you finally buy the basket, because that is how Hollywood has been portraying them -- like human pets. And how dare we commit wars upon human pets?

They are not our pets, 'x'. They are not peaceful, docile, cuddly critters only wanting to play-act the Arab-trader for our Epcot-Center vision of the world. These are people who believe that the world belongs to them to dominate -- not through capitalistic manipulation, but by cutting the throats of those who struggle. They teach this value to their "children", and enlist them in that war at an age that, were they Americans of the same age, they'd be getting their first adult teeth and playing Nintendo endlessly.

Cruel world, ainnit, 'x'?

[xxx]

You are really nuts. Half a million Lebaneze are now homeless, last time I checked we considered Lebanon a democracy on the rise, a friend...now all of a sudden because it looks bad for Israel to be killing Lebanese children and making families homeless you turn them all into mini terrorists and Hezbollah supporters. All 500,000 of these displaced Lebanese are Hezbollah???????????

Well if that's the case, then Israel is going to need a lot more than 45,000 reservists to beat them.

Why can't you just admit that these are innocent people caught in the crossfire between Israel and Hezbollah??? who have done nothing wrong or bad other than living in Southern Lebanon.

Bush has conducted surveillance on U.S. citizens on contravenience of American law, without following the procedures laid down for doing such, he SAYS he doesn't need to follow those procedures but he's a liar.

Bush has stated point blank that the U.S. does not have to abide by the Geneva Conventions and it has been ADMITTED that our treatment of 'enemy combatants' makes us in vilation of Article 3, I believe it is.

That makes him a war criminal in my mind on the one hand and a wannabe dicator on the other.

I don't care how many fucking Americans are beheaded or tortured, you do not get down in the gutter with your enemy, period. You do not throw away an entire history and culture of values because the other guy plays dirty...you most certainly don't move over torture from black opps to soldiers in uniform. Nobody sent the wives of Nazi officers to the gas chamber because the Nazi's gased women and children. There was no Bataan Death March of Japanese soldiers, though they most certainly deserved it. Instead, our guys got tortured and starved and their guys got treated decently. Right was on our side and we showed it, we were better than them. That is why we won the war. That is what America stands for, idiot.

History will prove me right, George Bush has done more damage to this country than anyone in history.

Nobody ever said the

[rwilymz]

"You are really nuts."

I'm cookoo for cocoa puffs, at any rate.

"Half a million Lebaneze are now homeless"

That's what happens when you live in a war zone.

"last time I checked we considered Lebanon a democracy on the rise, a friend."

Not exactly "friend", more like "pleasant acquaintance".

"now all of a sudden because it looks bad for Israel to be killing Lebanese children and making families homeless you turn them all into mini terrorists and Hezbollah supporters."

Hardly. Read what I wrote, 'x', not what you want to see. I don't take kindly to people putting words in my mouth, or on my keyboard.

"All 500,000 of these displaced Lebanese are Hezbollah???????????"

One '?' is sufficient to relate an inquiry. Think of all they bytes you're wasting.

I've never said anything about who is and who is not Hezbollah. Just that these people teach their children to wage war on "zionist crusaders". Which they do. Whether or not they are all war-wagers is not really relevant; there are enough who are that -- the rules of war being what they are -- all people in the area are endangered.

Now that the endangerment is leaping out of the realm of "theory" and manifesting itself in reality, NOW we call foul? Where were all the inane sympathizers when Hezbollah set up shop in the middle of "civilian" areas 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 23 years ago?

Let me put this simply for the simpleton: If.You.Do.Not.Want."Civilians".To.Be.Killed.In.Such.Wars.Then.Demand.The.Ones.Who.Put.Those."Civilians".In.Danger.To.Play.War.Elsewhere.

You are blaming the victim here.

If only she hadn't worn that provocative mini skirt, the rapist wouldn't have...

When you wage war on Israel, Israel is authorized to wage war right back. If people get in the way ... MOVE!

"Why can't you just admit that these are innocent people caught in the crossfire between Israel and Hezbollah?"

There probably are some. But I'd wager that there aren't 500,000 "innocent".

Because no matter how many '?' you throw out, the reality is these people are taught to wage war against Israel and the US. Israel is the only place they can reach.

"Bush has conducted surveillance on U.S. citizens on contravenience of American law, without following the procedures laid down for doing such, he SAYS he doesn't need to follow those procedures but he's a liar."

Fine; go back and arrest every prez who has done ditto.

Word of warning: you'll have to exhume most of them, since every prez has done it. Starting with Washington, who created "executive privilege" for purposes of national security.

"Bush has stated point blank that the U.S. does not have to abide by the Geneva Conventions and it has been ADMITTED that our treatment of 'enemy combatants' makes us in vilation of Article 3, I believe it is."

...and read common article 4, which defines who is and, by exclusion, who is not to be accorded GenCon protections. Then figure out who the folks in Gitmo are, and add 2 and 2 and see if you can get a positive integer between 3 and 5.

The GenCons were written the way they were written specifically to deny protections to those who don't fight wars following the rules. If our USSC is too lazy, duplicitous or dishonest to accurately render the applicable international law, well, fine. We'll call enemy combatants "prisoners of war" when they aren't, and we'll give them a few more Red Cross visits. But bang go their attorneys, because POWs get no attorneys. Nor do we have to release them until the end of hostilities. Nor do they get charged with any crime, because fighting in a war is not a crime -- even if you don't follow the rules while doing so.

It simply means that we don't have to accept surrender when offered and we get to summarily execute those who fight against us while not wearing uniforms.

Have it your way.

"I don't care how many fucking Americans are beheaded or tortured..."

...and **I'm** nuts. I'm into self-protection. If you're into cutting off your nose to spite your face, that's your business. Fortunately, you have only as many votes as I do.

"You do not throw away an entire history and culture of values because the other guy plays dirty"

Which "culture" and "values" are those?

I can only assume that you are talking about the heretofore pristine and gentlemanly American culture and values which has never, ever, ever fought dirty or played spiteful games in our foreign policies.

The same "values" that justified us tarring and feathering royalists in our Glorious Revolution, perhaps? Tarring attaches boiling tar to a person's skin, and rolling the poor fellow in feathers traps the heat inside. The poor schmuck is literally cooked alive. What fun!! A boistrous rowdy evening with the frat brothers!

WHAT culture and values, again?

"you most certainly don't move over torture from black opps to soldiers in uniform"

Define this "torture".

"Nobody sent the wives of Nazi officers to the gas chamber because the Nazi's gased women and children"

No, we gave them Dresden instead.

"There was no Bataan Death March of Japanese soldiers, though they most certainly deserved it."

Why march them to Bataan when they could stay home in Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- not to mention the "mere" firebombing of Tokyo -- instead?

You are looking at history through the rose-colored glasses of self-deception, declaring that the dirty tricks and we'll-get-even actions and the plain old simple "do what needs to be done" never happened.

We are no better or worse today than we ever were. We're just the king of the hill. And like every child on the playground, some people think that the king of the hill only got to be so because he cheated and didn't play fair, and that he must, for some reason, suddenly play the game differently in order to make it "fair" for everyone else. Give the little guy a chance. If the only weapon the enemy has is pointy sticks, it's "unfair" that we get to use F-16s.

"Right was on our side and we showed it, we were better than them. That is why we won the war."

You nearly had God laughing with this one. Yeppers, the racist, homophobic, anti-semitic and selfish USofA was RIGHTEOUS. The reason we won WWII was that we had industrial capacity that was beyond the reach of enemy bombers and submarines. We outlasted Germany; we out-tacticked Japan. Morality is a feel-good, but it don't win wars. It simply rationalizes wars afterwards.

"That is what America stands for, idiot"

Put it in the Sunday Sermon. Leave history for those who know it.

"History will prove me right, George Bush has done more damage to this country than anyone in history."

Dunno ... he's got Carter's heart-rending misfeasance to contend with; he's got all the nameless post-Reconstruction dweebs to sink lower than, as well. And he's also got Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus to best. No matter how many times you have to change your panties because Dubya wants to listen to phone calls you make to Mullah Omar, Lincoln arrested people -- Americans, not foreigners who were shooting at Americans -- for no reason, and held them with no charges. FDR did ditto. And Wilson did considerably more.

To get history on your side, you'd probably better know some.

[Sgt. York]

Let's recap and bring everybody up to date:

* It's 2006 and Israel needs to destroy Hezbollah
* Hezbollah was founded in 1982 to fight the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon that lasted until 2000
* Isreal invaded Lebanon in 1982 to destroy the Palestine Liberation Organization
* The PLO were attacking Israel from within Palestinian refugee camps along the Lebanon-Israel border
* The Palestinians were living in refugee camps along the border because European Jews wanted to create a 'Jewish State' where the Palestinians were living
* European Jews wanted their own county because of persecution in Europe

-------------------------------------------------

[Rick]

"Bush has stated point blank that the U.S. does not have to abide by the Geneva Conventions and it has been ADMITTED that our treatment of 'enemy combatants' makes us in vilation of Article 3, I believe it is."

For pitys sake turn off Al Franken and actually pay attention. Bush never said that.

[Rick]

"Lincoln arrested people -- Americans, not foreigners who were shooting at Americans -- for no reason, and held them with no charges. FDR did ditto. And Wilson did considerably more"

Did you leave US Grant and the indians out on purpose? Talk about racism run-amuck!

[rwilymz]

"Did you leave US Grant and the indians out on purpose?"

There's any number of US prezes who have done things that, were they to happen today, would be hooted at, hollered about, and weeped upon by the a-historical twits wetting their panties about Bush.

All the guys on our paper money were outright scoundrels, grasping power for power's sake -- including Washington, Lincoln and Jackson. Jackson tried moving the Cherokee out of Jawja cuz he wanted to use it for something. The USSC said no, you can't forcibly move the tribe. So Jackson said, "that's a fine court order, Mr Chief Justice; let's see you enforce it." And he moved the Cherokee anyway. And we all know how well that one turned out.

Yet, somehow, Bush, whose policy on the non-POW POWs in Gitmo was reversed, and **who*is*complying*with*the*ruling**, is the one who is doing the illegal things.

I just don't get these people. There is no way you can have paid attention in even basic grade school history class and avoid coming away from it with the concept that Bush is, on the whole, no better or worse than any other prez in the history of the country. Particularly on the aspect of protecting civil liberties. Yet that's exactly what these dimbulbs are doing.

Bush isn't arresting Americans for no reason and keeping them in jail without charges. FDR did that, Wilson did that, Lincoln did that. Adams the Elder crafted a law that his party passed that out-Patriot Acted the Patriot Act. The government didn't merely get to *snoop*, the government got to arrest you if you criticized it -- and throw you out of the country for it. Has Bush arrested George Soros yet? No? Cindy Sheehan? Natalie Mains? Howard Dean or John Kerry or Harry Reid? No?

...yet somehow Bush is still worse... and "history" will vindicate that frankly insupportable position.

"Undeclared" wars were fought by Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Polk, Lincoln, every post-Reconstruction prez, Wilson, FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush the Elder and Clinton. I'm not even counting Carter's Desert One fiasco because the operation never encountered enemy resistance, and the less said about his "moral equivalent of war" the better. ... yet Bush the Younger's "undeclared war" is "illegal" and he's a "war criminal" for it.

'x', if you're still listening and not feverishly looking up the Alien and Sedition Acts, our undeclared wars in Nicaragua and Haiti and the Mexican border war of the early 20th century, and all the rest, you might do well to silently pay attention for a while before you go spluttering again. Watch the history channel. Get tivo.

[Rick]

rw; I've given up on expecting people to attempt an understanding of history, especially the causes and effects of war. Our schools are pathetic, few history "teachers" understand the subject and or lack the energy to teach more than rote "facts". So we now have generations that think Columbus murdered all of the indians, the civil war was over slavery and GWB is the meanest thing since the grinch who stole something they can't discuss in school. They have no idea how many of america's wars were tied up in neat, easily palatable little excuses (usually the defense of the underdog) or why. You mention undeclared actions in Haiti and Nicaragua. How many readers here do you imagine think you're talking (only) about "arms for hostages" ala Reagan and the Pizza Run of Clinton? How many know what the line from the Marine Hymn "the shores of Tripoli" refers to? I guess we debate simply to debate because you cannot change a closed mind. So who's winning on Idol?

[rwilymz]

these people get to vote is what nauseates me.