Wever To Be Released In Holloway Investigation

Figure this one out.

Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer

Oranjestad, Aruba (AHN) - An attorney in Aruba confirms a man has been indicted in the case of missing Alabama teenager, Natalee Holloway.

Guido Wever, 18, will appear in court Tuesday in the Netherlands, to answer charges of murder and manslaughter stemming from the May, 2005 disappearance.

But:

(CNN) -- A man indicted in the Netherlands on murder charges in the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba will be released Tuesday but must remain available for questioning, the man's attorney said.

Bottom line - more of the same.

Comments

[windy city]

Saw this coming a mile away!

[FloridaPatty]

Are we shocked? C'mon be honest. Did anyone really think this would go the distance? Well we can no longer say it's a DOMpig and PONY show.

Dr. SPOCK, Guido's lawyer, was very matter of fact. As if the kid came in for the past week and was questioned, oh and by the way, he has finals tomorrow and oh, by the way, they were going to release him anyway but just didn't have time today to get him out.

Where's his mother? She's definately not got the American grit in her.
(thinking) My son? wait til tomorrow? (not just no but HELL NO)

[TempleOrange]

Well this was expected. Not suprized at all. Loved the link about I cam across on the net whiel surfing. Too hillarious.

[DennisAOK]

M-I-C, K-E-Y, M-O-U-S-E.

[jolari]

There are more ups & downs in this case that there are on a seesaw. Oh well, many involved seem to belong on a playground anyway.
This must be hell on the families involved. Uncalled for.

[truthbetold]

did anyone really expect differently? well I guess it is on to the next poor person who happens to know joran or have seen him once in their life or ya know whoever is next in line - so sad people have to go through this again and again - by now someone would have gave up something if they knew it - I don't think they know anything and I still think the kids in MB do know something and are lying and so is the Twitty family and it is easy for them to keep up the act - nobody has put them in jail or ruined their lives for media's sake. Everyone says it is common sense Joran did it because he lied - sure he lied ONE TIME we know of for a fact and most likely out of fear from the twitty clan hounding him - yet nata;ees friends all have differeing versions of what happened and they have been caught lying and so has beth twitty numerous times whether people want to admity that or not it is there in print and on air - people blast joran for being a jerk who left a girl alone on a beach if he didn't kill her yet what about her best friends who supposedly saw she was not back in her room at 4 am and did nothing and alerted nobody? the ones who let her hop in a car supposedly and told nobody? the ones who said not a word until they were in the airport waiting for a plane and who all got a plane nd left despite the fact their friend was missing? I have a hrder time believeing them than I do Joran and that to me is plain common sense - but of course aruba was not allowed to question those kids as hard as they did these kids in aruba because of the almighty twitty machine and their great political connections and so on - behavior says alot and they behavior of the twittys and those kids in mb made no sense at all to me for people who were supposedly torn up with grief

[Skye]

Joran lied more than one time and continues to lie. His lying "behavior " says it all. He knows what happen.

It is stupid to constantly claim the MB kids know when the FACT is Natalee has not been seen since she was seen with JVDS. He knows what happen and he is responsible for what happen.

I fault Joran because he craved Natalee out of her group at 1 A.M. for his selfish intentions. He took advantage of a tourist and I think he contributed to her condition prior to leaving CnC's. I DO NOT believe his beach story for not even ONE second. He is lying about the beach story. He was never there with Natalee.

If Joran doesn't want every person he knows to be questioned or suspected he should develope some decency and tell the truth.

[Skyboxx]

Orenjadgt Aruba...Aruban Law Enforecment today announed they have arrested Joran Van Der Sloots School teacher and a former Nanny of JVS. ALE said "they too, once knew JVS" and that is grounds for arrest in the disappearance of NH. Meanwhile, JVS too younger brothers have retained legal counsel to renounce that they ever "knew" JVS. Said a spokesman for the brothers, "Yes they lived and grew up in the same house, but NO, they actually did NOT know each other, strange as it sound."

Aruban authorities have also set up a hot line where you can call one of two phone numbers. One number if you KNOW JVS, one number if you don't. No word on which hot line is being used the most.

Finally tourism continues to plumment on the small self governed proterctorate of Holland. ALE denies any connection with their inabilithy to solve the case of the missing Alabama teen. They are however looking to find someone else to arrest, just to keep the ARuba name in the press as popularity falls for this tiny island nation.

[Skyboxx]

You Truthbetold, Joran has lied four times, confirmed. Not once. But hey it was just a few tiny lies. Nothing to get in a twist about right? I man why should Beth be so upset, all she did was lose her daughter, where is the Justice for Joran right? Give me a break

[Neantaeus]

The good news is that pot is legal in the Netherlands. The bad news is that everyone is stoned.

[getalife]

Ha-ha....It seems that at last BH lust for revenge is showing some results....Their sinister bloodthirsty philosophy: Let’s throw down the whole Aruba plane killing everybody just to get the suspects seems to be working.….

[dt]

truthbetold - get off the twittys and mb students kick. it goes nowhere and everybody in law enforcement in 3 countries know this. guess who remains the primary suspect.....yep, your loser pal Joran. it's amazing how really ignorant you are.

[Flying Dutchman]

Already old news! He is already released!

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/43332551/Verdachte_zaak-Holloway_op_vrije_voeten.html

[Flying Dutchman]

The good news is that pot is legal in the Netherlands. The bad news is that everyone is stoned.

Posted by: Neantaeus | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 06:39 AM

Check you references. Pot is most certainly not legal in the Netherlands. The selling and use of it is condoned, but it is not legal.

[medicinegirl]

YEAH!!!! How did Beth Holloway Twitty become one of the most despised mothers of a missing child?? Spin that Beth!!!

[Skyboxx]

Med Girl,

Time to take your meds. BHT did not COMMIT A CRIME. She is a VICTIM. Her DAUGHTER was taken from her.

Now take your meds and go lie down. No really, go

[DennisAOK]

Beth Holloway despised? Maybe by a few crackpots on blogs, but elsewhere she is widely admired.

[DennisAOK]

Flying Dutchman,

Pot may not be legal, but a lot of people there seem to be on it. Did you read the long rambling statement from Wever's family telling us that they are on guard against Nazi-like aspirations by the Americans, especially their media, and asserting the universal rights of man. You just never know when an American journalist will break into your home and start shooting people.

And asking Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somalia-born MP and critic of modern Islam, to leave Holland is not exactly a profile in courage, either. I welcome Ms. Ali to the USA, land of the free and home of the brave!

[IMHERE]

Anyone who seeks the truth is always despised by those who do not want the truth to surface, so I guess if you lie you may despise Beth, but by and large she has won the respect and admiration of many across the world. Look at the ones who despise her, no one needs say more.

[Florida Patty]

people blast joran for being a jerk who left a girl alone on a beach if he didn't kill her yet what about her best friends who supposedly saw she was not back in her room at 4 am and did nothing and alerted nobody? the ones who let her hop in a car supposedly and told nobody? -truthbetold

@truth

You should pick up Dave Holloway's ARUBA. You've been around here long enough to know much of what has happened since last summer. I thought I knew most of the information but Dave delivers some amazing bombs in his book. He adds no inference, no emphasis, he just puts it out there for people to decide.

BTW: The girls were searching for Natalie from about 3 AM on. Others made the mistake of thinking she was staying with this friend or that friend.

[kaycee77025]

Wasn't someone else also arrested in Aruba?

[Florida Patty]

Anyone who seeks the truth is always despised by those who do not want the truth to surface, so I guess if you lie you may despise Beth, but by and large she has won the respect and admiration of many across the world. Look at the ones who despise her, no one needs say more.

Posted by: IMHERE | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 08:47 AM

@IMHERE
Well said! I have such admiration for this family who demonstrate how a unified family, despite divorce, should behave.

[kaycee77025]

From SCRUX: http://www.scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=570

Julia Renfro of Aruba Today

Catherine begins with Julia Renfro of Aruba Today. She asked what sort of evidence brought about the detention of Guido Wever. Julia believes this arrest came as a result of the show that was done in Holland. Someone following that show gave information to the Aruban authorities and in order to clear things up Guido was brought in. However, Julia announces that there is "breaking news" that this suspect who was supposed to go before a Judge at the Hague tomorrow will in fact be released tomorrow. A very surprised Catherine responds that he had been charged with assisting with a murder, a various serious charge. Julia, explains once again that is the way the Aruban system works, that they put the highest level of the crime in the beginning since you cannot go back later and charge a higher crime. Catherine asks if releasing him will mean he is no longer a suspect or that he is not considered connected to the case. Julia says he will remain a suspect with the charges brought forward.

[IMHERE]

Does Aruba have any idea what people across the world are saying or thinking. This case in Aruba has become the butt of jokes. This morning on a local radio station, the joke was that Barbarow was arrested in connection the the Holloway case.

Aruba stop mocking yourself and self destructing your island.

Posted by: IMHERE | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 10:12 AM

[Captain Joe]

Check you references. Pot is most certainly not legal in the Netherlands. The selling and use of it is condoned, but it is not legal.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman |
A very fine disctintion, indeed.

[Forreal]

Everyone who is so worried about Aruba, tourism is doing just fine. Tourism from cruise passengers is actually up this year. I think they should just give up or at least do the investigation secretly. If they don't arrest anyone people complain that nothing is being done and they don't give a #$&@!, but if they arrest someone the investigation is just a joke or they're show-boating. Aruba can't win either way. If no more arrests are made the story will go away.

[dt]

I laugh at those idiots over in Holland and in Aruba...they talk down to us, but in the back of their minds they know WE ARE THE SUPREME POWER in this world and WE ARE THE REASON THEY EXIST today, just ask the servicemen who died for their freedom.

It's funny they call themselves a Kingdom...what a joke. Maybe a kingdom of murderers, rapists who have no regard for the female gender..I hope they all burn in hell.

[dt]

tourism is not up....thank you try again.

[lookin4info]

It's amazing that everyone can be charged with these charges and yet we still know nothing.

[Forreal]

Oh and by the way let's not use semantics with the legality of pot in holland. The point is that its use is allowed. But this is where it gets interesting. If you've ever been to Amsterdam and visited the "coffee" houses guess who you will find there. Not Dutchies, but . . . yes! mostly Americans. A friend told me a story that when they went into one of these places, the sales clerk was an American. I guess the owners got some good business sense.

[c]

Posted by: Forreal | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 10:50 AM
I hate to say this but u are very right. I went there to check to see what "coffee house" was all about, could not beleive it, it was a hangout for Americans. But that does not mean all Americans do that.....

Also I only saw that in Amsterdam, did not see it in Rotterdam though....

[dt]

BS ^^^ I went to Amsterdam for my honeymoon and I visited as many coffee houses as I could and I maybe ran into a handful of Americans. There is one coffee house in Amsterdam that is run by two Americans (The Grey Area, I believe). I talked to people of all nationalities while in Amsterdam and to say mostly Americans frequent those establishments is simply FALSE!

[Rolls]

Posted by: Skye
> I DO NOT believe his beach story for not even ONE second. He is lying about the beach story. He was never there with Natalee.

Which only leaves three cellphone calls your theory has to explain; the first at 2:40am from near the Marriott.

These three calls are an obvious and *perfect* fit with Joran walking home from the Huts from 2:40am, whatever he says.

They may be made to fit some *other* pattern of movements, but that won't stop them being a perfect fit to him walking home. Bare feet, but it's a sealed road, so no problems at all.

And how can Deepak have done what Beth has claimed if he is logging on at home in Hooiberg only *half an hour* after leaving C&C's? He must have dropped Joran *somewhere* near Palm Beach in that those thirty minutes before going home.

Moreover Joran has to somehow get to be in the Palm Beach area only 70 minutes after leaving C&C's in Deepak's car.

It gets so difficult fitting in time for rapin', murderin', and diggin' holes that one has to wonder what the all-fired RUSH was that morning?

Why did Deepak have to log in so damn early and demolish so many *great* theories, even the ones that didn't feature custard or man-eating Gerbils?

If the data conflicts with the theory - attack the data. Never let awkward facts get in the way of a good theory.

---

Posted by: Florida Patty
> BTW: The girls were searching for Natalie from about 3 AM on. Others made the mistake of thinking she was staying with this friend or that friend.

Natalee was first missed at a head count around 8 am, confirmed at a second muster in the lobby shortly after. At 3am a group of MB'ers were still drinking around the pool, until some time after 4am, and Natalee was *not* missed by them. (statements on Scrux by FEB et al)

All this stuff is on the net. So I wonder if you make up stuff like this just to see who's paying attention and who is, or isn't, up to speed and good for a bit of sport. Or are you just unresearched?

"JORAN LIED!!!!!" is true, but not exhaustive or sufficient.

Two things I find curious.
1) It would be better for Joran if he had to walk home, but he says he didn't, that Satish gave him the mobility of Deepak's wheels.

2) It would be better for Joran if they did take the side trip to the lighthouse and back, yet again he insists they didn't, again leaving him more time opportunity.

The first is clearly not true, but why does he persist with this version that is DISadvantagous to him, when in the first case (what we can see is) the truth would serve him better?

So I look into the goat entrails and this is what I see; someone with something to hide alright, but that something is worth accepting a *greater* personal exposure to a rape and murder charge risk, so it can't be that he is moving away from and therefore the two are unconnected. Taunting the authorities like this would only be an acceptable risk if you knew you were innocent of the crime they were likely to charge you with.

Discography: 'Long Black Veil' by The Band

Spare a thought for Beth. She is so committed to Joran's guilt that if some other person or thing is found to be responsible her brain will explode.

[4 years without charge - Free David Hicks]

[dt]

Rolls - I'll take what was said by Dave in his book before something from that garbage pail called SCRUX. Dave was there, you weren't. Dave knows when and where they were looking for Natalee, you don't and neihter does SCRUX. Dave has more credibility in his left pinkie than you or SCRUX will ever have in a lifetime.

Joran and GW know each other well.....i know you aren't very smart, but you can probably piece things together with just this info. I wonder why they are still calling Joran the prime suspect...that is why Beth and Dave are so adament about Joran.

[jack]

dt , you are an imbecile but I LOVE your posts !!

[Charles]

MB teens know more than you think.

[truthbetold]

truthbetold - get off the twittys and mb students kick. it goes nowhere and everybody in law enforcement in 3 countries know this. guess who remains the primary suspect.....yep, your loser pal Joran. it's amazing how really ignorant you are.

Posted by: dt | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 07:40 AM

wow idiot....and yet joran is free of all charges and there is no evidence to implicate him continue with your beth worshipping see how far it gets you

[Debra]

Joran implicated himself with lies.

An innocent does not need to lie. But, if he did,.... he would be decent enough to come clean, and tell the truth when a girl is missing and her family is searching for her........

[Is that what you REALLY believe?]

Truthbetold......

Honestly and seriously, I would like an answer......with all your heart and intellect, do you believe that the reason Joran VDS is free of all charges is because he is innocent in this matter?

I am far from a Beth worshipper as you accused DT of being, but I reaaly want to guage where YOU are coming from.

If you could answer I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[Is that what you REALLY believe?]

Forgive the typing errors in my last post please....

[Rolls]

Dear dt,

you wrote:
"Dave knows when and where they were looking for Natalee, you don't and neihter does SCRUX."

Rolls wrote (pre-emptively):
"If the data conflicts with the theory - attack the data. Never let awkward facts get in the way of a good theory."

Better still, simply *ignore* any difficult facts or contradictions that may risk kicking your thinking processes into gear, and attack the messenger. I've seen your posts dt and, whoever you are in realspace, if you misread and write like an opinionated teen dweeb on speed then that persona/Avatar has to expect to cop some lofty contempt in return.

WAKE UP! I'm not quoting *Scrux* - I'm quoting transcripts of on-camera *interviews* with FEB and other students. You confuse the document with the filing cabinet. Maybe you can find them on Deech's cesspit (but I rather doubt it); Scrux just happens to be the most obvious collection of such transcripts.

So - what you are really saying is that you take Dave's word over statements by the MB students. *FEB* was there at 3am drinking with a group of 20-30 MB'ers by the HI pool (pic) 'til after 4am (statement), and Dave was home tucked up in bed in the USA - okay?

The credibility that is in question is not mine, it's the statements by the MB students against whoever is now claiming a 3am search (Dave in his book I assume).

I don't need to know what happened to recognise contradictory statements when I see them, beit Satish and Joran or FEB and Dave. (and having done SAR work the idea of an uncoordinated "search" by a bunch of drunken high school students at 3am is in equal parts funny, absurd, and bloody alarming; who rescues *them*? ;)(

It's a simple fact that these two versions don't agree. Like FEB and HI staff saying they saw Natalee after 3am (ref 48 Hours), or Beth getting a call from Natalee after she vanished (ref Dr Phil), the implications of a 3am search are also profound. Is Dave misinformed, or are the MB'ers telling lies? I previously accepted FEB's word at face value, but perhaps you're right and the MB'ers are a pack of liars.

Questions that arise in my simple mind are; *IF* Natalee was missed and being searched for at 3am;

* why were the chaparones not told until after 8am when Natalee didn't show for breakfast, 5 hours later;
* Beth until "a little after 11am" when Jody Bearman rang her (VF) after Natalee didn't make the 10.30am flight, 8 hours later;
* or the authorities until late the *next* day after Beth and Jug flew in and conducted their "family investigation" first (Beth/Greta), some 20 hours later?
* When did the chaparones find out from the MB students that Natalee left C&C's with three unknown guys in a car?
* Why didn't the chaparones call the police *then*?
* What does the word "emergency" mean to the chaparones?
* At what time were HI management made aware Natalee was missing (and when did they secure the security videotapes? Does the HI chain have an established proceedure for missing guest reports and was it followed, particularly w.r.t. informing authorities)?

The "not really chaparones" have made a nonsense of the word by being "only there for emergencies" (said one "chaparone" on Birmingham radio). Well sonny a lot of parents would like to know what the hell you call an "emergency" if it isn't one of your charges going missing without trace! Wake up Sunshine, your bum is on fire! You blew it big time! When the shit hit the fan these so-called "chaparones" totally screwed up the only thing they were there for. They even manage to outshine hotel so-called "security" guards who were stealing from the guests.

Skye wrote that her(?) mental model doesn't include J2K going to the beach. The logic seems to be "Joran lied about some things so he lies about everything".

Abusing her won't change her mind, but posing some questions may result in her proposing a plausable pattern of movements that is different from what seems obvious from the phone records, but still consistant with them. Of particular interest to me is how Joran came to be in the Marriott area at 2.40am if they didn't go to the beach. Or, reflecting on this phone data, Skye might be induced to reconsider her mental model.

Most commentators seem to have it upside-down, trying to make reality conform to statements. Okay, the suspect states "I didn't shoot the victim", but you have the bullet out of the victim which matches the gun which carries the fingerprints of the suspects hand which shows gunshot residue. Now which is supreme, the *statement*, or the *evidence*? It might still be true, but you give the material evidence more weight.

When Joran says he didn't call Deepak but the phone records say he did, which do you accept as more likely to be true? Or do you dismiss both and look for answers in an L.Ron Hubbard book, like Greta?

First there are the facts, the material evidence, and these tell you which parts of statements are correct. Not the other way around. Here we have various phone and swipe-key entry records, and almost nothing else in the way of *hard* evidence.

This evidence supports Joran's statement that he was leaving the beach at 2.40am,
BUT
it also contradicts his statement that he was then picked up and driven home.

Dave (I assume) says she was missed and a search started at 3am,
BUT
various MB sources are on record agreeing that she was first missed just after 8am.

So which is true? Because they can't both be right.

dt> "i know you aren't very smart"

Yep. That's right dt, you know ALL about me and my background.

I'm soooo stoopid I like *all* the facts to fit before I'm ready to believe something. I'm not a fat teen dweeb who gets all his exercise jumping to conclusions, so I'm not really up to the mental gymnastics required to extrude a logical camel through the eye of a factual needle.

Being senile I need to have it explained to me in simple *detail*, step-by-step, A-B-C..., no hand-waving, bluster, abuse, or smoke and mirrors, how these phone records fit in if the group didn't go to the beach.

There's an elephant in the room.

* They leave C&C's at 1:30am.

* Deepak's computer logs-on in Hooiberg at 2.00am.

* Joran's cell makes a call from the Palm Beach area at 2.40am (then two more that track his walk home).

I see this like a Chess problem - there's the setup, figure out the moves; and there may be more than one solution. So I'm surprised at the heat generated by the most obvious construction. This doesn't provide answers but does define the most likely scenario, viz;

Joran and Natalee were dropped at the Huts around 1:50am and Deepak and Satish then went home to make the 2.00am login. (exunt scene, avg speed 32mph)

The critical time is between 1.50am and 2.40am when Joran and Natalee are somewhere close to her hotel, presumably at the Huts, presumably without a car.
[------]
[insert personal prejudice and homicidal and/or sexual fantasy here]
[------]
From 2.40am Joran is walking home (exunt scene, avg speed 4mph).

End of scene, at least for J2K.

This doesn't prove Joran's guilt or innocence, and it may be more complex than this. But any theory that fails to explain these phone records, one way or another, isn't worth considering.

For for more stoopid details see;

http://member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/page07.htm

-----

Errata
To : Florida Patty,

I made an error in my previous post about the relative murder and rape rates in Florida and Aruba where I apparently understated the Aruban population by about 30%.

So my remark that Florida is several times more dangerous than Aruba should actually read Florida is many times more dangerous than Aruba. Sorry.

[falcon]

Hey Skyboxx; Concerning Natalee, take a careful look at www.revelation13.net/KingJames.html and then click on 2c.

If you have trouble finding it, post a note.

[Skyboxx]

Falcon,

The website is strange I will give you that. But could it just be modern day chicanery?

[falcon]

I don't know, Skyboxx. If I were smart I'd be rich.

[lancealot]

@ skyboxx & Sky et all
This site looks like a echo pit. Whatever the topic is, it always ends up with the same: he is a lyar. And when the echo fades in the empty parts of your head, you come back to the edge of the pit till you hear it resonate again .. lying….lying… lying… lying. And that for twelve months. You’re an addict.

[BamaRN]

Geez! Same ole crap but on a different day.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that there were most likely more than one car in use and more people involved in whatever may have happened to Natalee?
I could be very wrong about this, but I have lots of doubts that J2K could make a persons body completely disappear without a trace and then keep their mouth sealed about their deed without bragging about what they did to someone.
I still suspect that Natalee most likely accidently died of acute alcohol poisoning and/or a combination drug/alcohol overdose. Most people are not aware of the fact that by mixing alcohol with any type of diet drink causes the human body to absorb alcohol at a must faster rate than when the alcohol is mixed with a non-diet drink.
Remember, Natalee had been drinking the fire-reds most of her last day in Aruba and add this to her small body frame that was also dehydrated from previous days and nights of drinking and being in the sun her last day in Aruba which caused her to become futher dehydrated, so anything that she drank be it water or any type of alcoholic drinks was quickly absorbed by her dehydrated body system. Like Rolls stated on telpacific.com maybe Natalee went for a swim and drowned and her body was sweep out to sea or maybe Natelee went for a swim and a large shark eat her etc. Who knows?
On the other hand we dont really know if Natalee is alive and hiding out somewhere in another country or she has been forced into the sex slave industry in south america or what the heck happened to her.

[BamaRN]

Hi Rolls.
I enjoyed both of your post and the info on the link telpacific.com
Thanks,
Fracjack

[falcon]

Re post by BamaRN:

Interesting analysis that incorporates almost all the facts that most people seem to be comfortable with.

[roch_rogue]

I laugh at those idiots over in Holland and in Aruba...they talk down to us, but in the back of their minds they know WE ARE THE SUPREME POWER in this world and WE ARE THE REASON THEY EXIST today, just ask the servicemen who died for their freedom.

It's funny they call themselves a Kingdom...what a joke. Maybe a kingdom of murderers, rapists who have no regard for the female gender..I hope they all burn in hell.

Posted by: dt | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 at 10:47 AM

-----------------

I guess that makes the USA the EMPIRE of Murderers and Rapists

[lyannea]

I guess that makes the USA the EMPIRE of Murderers and Rapists

Posted by: roch_rogue | Saturday, May 27, 2006 at 10:26 AM

would someone like to take a happy pill, instead of a grumpy or cynical one ?
Small island of Aruba compared to huge country of USA ?
A bit far fetched. but, like I always say, if you really don't like it here, there are many a
countries to live in- you will probably like it a lot better to live outside of this country, as ya'll are having such negative attitudes toward this one- life is too short- go for it