So Much For Freedom Of Speech In Holland

Perhaps ultimately throughout Europe as well. If anything tells you that contemporary Liberal political thought, as exemplified within the European Union, is devoid of principle, this ruling should do it.

The court considers in its ruling that the neighbors have been put into a situation that has contributed to them feeling less safe in their own house. That feeling is extended to the communal living spaces of the apartment complex, but also to their own apartments. The court argues that this is a severe violation of one’s private life (as per Article 8 of the European Treaty for Human Rights).

The short version - speak out against radical Islam and you will be threatened. And when your neighbors become inconvenienced or feel threatened by those threats, they can go to court and the government will tell you to move.

In essence, the state has not simply buckled under to terrorist threats, they are codifying them into law, allowing for the physical displacement of individuals for speaking their mind on controversial topics. Yet, this would be one of the same governments that would attempt to lecture America on its need for tolerance of opposing views.

What utterly cowardly and unprincipled nonsense all around.

h/t Hot Air

Comments

[coconuttree]

Dan, of all people I never expected you to write such nonsense about the Dutch government. I don't know what the case is in the USA, but in Holland the judges are independent from the government. For that reason a court ruling is independent from the policy of the government.Our present government is a big ally of your Government and is not seen in Holland as liberal. They supported Mr. Bush in the war with Irak. At this moments Dutch soldiers are fighting side by side with Americans in Afganistan. Reading your other posts I thought you were more internationally orientated than the average American. I think you should get yourself educated before giving your opinion about other countries.

[Dan]

Our present government

Your present government is also comprised of a judiciary that apparently is dictated to bow down to the EU by treaty, yes? And as for the judging, I say similar things about the American justice system when I see decisions like the above - and I do see them.

So, I take it you think the decision above is just, as you didn't comment on the heart of the matter.

[coconuttree]

I do not think the decision is just. Freedom of speech is one of the pillars of democracy and should be defended vigourously.

But you are the one who used words "In essence, the state has not simply buckled under to terrorist threats, they are codifying them into law". Which is simply not the case in the Netherlands. Just this year several people got sentenced to 5, 13 and 15 years in prison under the new anti-terrorist laws for being members of the suspected Islamic terrorist cell known as the "Hofstad" group. On the other hand I can understand that it is very difficult to know what's going on in every country in the world.

[rwilymz]

"you are the one who used words "In essence, the state has not simply buckled under to terrorist threats, they are codifying them into law". Which is simply not the case in the Netherlands. Just this year several people got sentenced to 5, 13 and 15 years in prison under the new anti-terrorist laws ..."

...which only means that Der Nederlands is schizophrenic.

[R]

I am sorry Dan, but you are just making a big deal about something you copied from another misinformed blogger .
It has got nothing to do with the freedom of speach,
it is a safety issue.
Try and find out what realy is going on and than blog it. This time you are way off target, but it is ofcourse another american chance to hit on cultures you donot know anything about.

R

[rwilymz]

"It has got nothing to do with the freedom of speach,
it is a safety issue."

So ... let's take this to a logical extension, then, Mr Safety ...

If I say "Blacks are people, too!" in the town of, say, Coonlynch Mississippi in front of the local meeting hall of the KKK, I can be silenced because others around me might get hit with the rocks being flung by the robed bigots?

If George Clooney were to say "down with US foreign policy" in front of a VFW hall, *he* could be silenced if the vets were willing to start flinging rocks over it?

Do we only have freedom of speech if those offended by what we say are not willing to impose random violence on others?

Izzat what you're saying?

If so, then you ought to be silenced, because I'm suddenly feeling like doing some random violence...

[R]

rwilymz,

You too donot know where it is about, first try and find out where it is realy about before just assuming that everything you read on the internet is true.

It has got nothing to do with silencing poeple, it has got everything to do that a very well guarded safe house for a threathend person is in the middle of a local community ( house block), which would mean that if it were for instance bombed other poeple would be at risc too. Even Hirsch Ali ( the heavely guarded person) understands and respects the judgement. So who are you and others to take this out of context??

And for your examples, i am glad that i have never been in the position to ever come up with those. In my life they donot excist, never have.

You feel the urge of doing something violent?? You should see somebody about that, and maybe your neighbours wouldnot agree, because of the possible conesequences ( not by me, i was raised different)and win a case, because they may be at risque.

Is not safety for "ALL" a big issue where you live??
If not than just stop the tireless things i have to go through traveling through the states, poeple going through my suitcases, having me scanned belongings swiped to see wether i once was in contact with explosives or not.

So yes, safety is the issue.
Bye
R

[rwilymz]

"It has got nothing to do with silencing poeple"

Just making them move if they speak.

"Either keep quiet or move." But that's not silencing people, no.

"Even Hirsch Ali ( the heavely guarded person) understands and respects the judgement"

What choice does he have? He has the choice of: comply. It's funny to me that people who see someone doing what he's commanded to do infer that doing so shows "respect".

"So who are you and others to take this out of context??"

Um ... this may seem odd to you ... but we're free people in a free society who don't particularly like to capitulate to terrorists, by proxy or otherwise.

"i am glad that i have never been in the position to ever come up with those. In my life they donot excist, never have."

Here's one that exists that you wish to be in denial over: Hirsch Ali ( the heavely guarded person)

"Is not safety for "ALL" a big issue where you live??"

Safety for all is not supposed to trump individual rights. The more we allow the dillution of individual rights in favor of safety the fewer rights we'll have, and we won't even be remarkably safer.

Particularly with the immediate example of terrorists wanting to bomb one of their critics. The terrorists are not now and never have shown any capacity for ceasing their demands. If it wasn't that one critic, it would be something else.

Have you ever listened to pan-islamist yahhos? What excuse do they use whenever they commit random violence? Essentially: whatever comes to mind.

"So yes, safety is the issue"

You can rationalize all you want, but you're still advocating the elimination of free speech in order to give you a warm fuzzy that you don't really have.

[annie]

Just another example of a 'token' response from the Dutch!!

The governments of the various countries involved with this maddness called The European Union, no longer have control over their own laws.

Anything, but anything, can be overruled by European Union law.

The European Union is a dictatorship run by an unelected few with a 'token parliament' which the people of the Member States go through the farce of 'electing', yet anybody that has really studied the European Union knows it is run by an unelected few i.e. the Commissioners, The Council of Ministers, and that atheistic, unelected Marxist, (given his power by European Directive 666), His High Excellency Mr Javier Solana.

Go against his wishes, (and he wishes all to join), and you will soon see what will become of you!!

If Milosovich had kept his mouth shut and demanded to join the EU, what's betting he would still be around!! Do you think he was the only one involved in killing??

If you are in favour of a One World Government Dictatorship, you will love this, hence the Dutch neighbours who are using it to get rid of this woman will be highly praising it. There will ultimately be no free speech. Neither will there be different religions, as the New World Order hopes to impose its own composite version eventually, whereby there will be no need for anybody to disagree with anybody else, we will all worship the one composite, 'token' god. Just a world where everybody does what they are told. That is the nature of the One World Government, or New World Order, whatever you want to call it.

Don't expect spirited people like this lady to survive very long in it, they will disappear!!

[exilesanctuary.com]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a real heroine to me. Sure I can appreciate the apprehensive feelings neighbors have, but, they should applaud such a strong, independent and courageous woman, willing to speak out against Islamafascists, and the horrible injustices committed against Islamic women. The idea that she is forced to move is appalling, though. If her neighbors feel unsafe, they should move.

This kind of pandering to the fears of terrorism, only aids the terror, and how safe will those numbskull Dutch be after all their rights erode, and they give over their state to terrorists? Europe is scarier than the Middle East.

[Eagle]

Study our "Patriot Act" a little more carefully. And.... bon apetit with our "Liberation" Fries.

[Daniel]

The other posters were right to point out that it is not a freedom of speech issue. When the government offered Ayaan a safe house, they made a rather poor choice by locating it in a big appartment building. It's not just that the neighbors (rightly) feel threatened, they and their visitors are inconvenienced every day by all the security measures and if they want to move, they have to sell their property far below its market value. I agree that people should show Ayaan some solidarity, but what was asked of these particular neighbors was too much of a sacrifice. In that sense, it's a fair ruling and the government will just have to find Ayaan a more suitable place.
Maybe she can move in with Her Majesty :)

[mylena]

well Dan: why don't you go live with your family nextdoor Ayaan?
But just start what first happened, there were people living happily in their appartments, and then Ayaan came (they were not able to have a vote in that ? go find an appartement in New York, you have to be invited IN) and that changed the families life dramatically, thats where this is about.... you are so focused to bash the 'liberal and social" way of living in the Netherlands, so are too fast with this story, if you sit back and think about it again, im sure you might see where it was about.

[coconottree]

Sami Amin Al-Arian ((born January 14, 1958) is a Palestinian-American computer engineer who was convicted on helping Palestinian Islamic Jihad and sentenced to four years in prison[1]

Arayan, a former university professor was arrested by the United States government in 2003 on charges of funding terrorists. He was acquitted on eight of the 17 charges against him last December after a six month trial with three co-defendants. On April 14, 2006 al-Arian pleaded guilty to a single count of conspiracy to provide services to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and agreed to be deported. In return, federal prosecutors agreed to drop the remaining eight charges against him.

Al-Arian appeared on the popular television show The O'Reilly Factor on September 26, shortly after the September 11th attacks. On the program, host Bill O'Reilly, resurrected charges from fifteen years prior that alleged Al-Arian had used a now-defunct university-affiliated Islamic think tank that he headed as a front for Palestinian "terrorist" organizations. Though Al-Arian denied all links to terrorists O'Reilly claimed he believed Al-Arian had terrorist connections.

Following the airing of the program, USF received several death threats for Al-Arian. University president Judy Genshaft placed Al-Arian on paid leave and barred him from the campus on September 27, saying it was for his own safety and the safety of others at the university.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Al-Arian

I'd rather live in the European dictatorship than in a country where the color of your skin decides whether you have a life or not.

[rwilymz]

"I'd rather live in the European dictatorship than in a country where the color of your skin decides whether you have a life or not."

I've got a few comments, 'nutry:

1] don't lie on your exit visa;

2] Duke U just kicked the [white] lacrosse team out of their dorms and off campus because the Black Panthers have been making vague and notso-vague threats against both the players and the university.