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Saturday, May 13, 2006

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Reads like the American dream.

I thought this quote of his was pretty good:

"You see, I don't think you're tough at all. I think you're a little coward who is ready to give up all your rights at the first sign of trouble. You're so scared of big bad Al Qaeda, you're willing to cede your liberties to George Bush because he promises to protect your sorry *ss. Millions(or 651,008) of men have died protecting our freedoms, but you're so frightened by a bunch of guys in a cave in Afghanistan, you're willing to give up many of those freedoms they died for. I am repulsed by your weakness."

Typical skewed liberal reasoning again!!

Oh yeah, lets give our all (verbally, of course), to protect us from the security services knowing who may have phoned who, and when, (even though this is being done in order to try and catch terrorists who want to kill us), but let's not go actually fight any terrorist.

After all, we might get hurt!!

Annie:

Are you trying to argue that only people who have served in the milatary should voice their opinion on these matters? I agree that people who have served probably can offer insights into wars and how to win them, and people who have served in, and fought wars probably have more of an appreciation for the sacrifices involved. Maybe it would be a good idea to support Iraqi veterans for elected office in 2006.

Dan, Thanks very much for the link.

Bryce - If you admire that statement so much, let me ask you this. Would you feel the same way if the terrorists hiding in the caves manage to fly another airplane into a fully occupied skyscraper? How about if they detonate a nuke in the center of an American city? Or release chemical or biological weapons?

On a one-on-one basis, I'm not afraid of a guy in a cave.

But I fear for my fellow citizens. Even the ones I disagree with politically.

Gaius

Gaius:

In the end America is only as good as her constitution, and if you ignore the constitition because you are scared then the terrorist have won. I suggest you spend your time fearing that, instead of what a few guys in a cave are going to do.


Bryce

'America is only as good as her Constitution'


Is this Constitution of yours written in stone or something??

Cause you know what, it seems to me that if you don't change things, you are going to go to hell in a bucket called 'political correctness'. At the moment you are trying to cater for all and sundry minorities, who only have to claim their rights under the Constitution.

This is interfering with the main principle of democracy called 'majority rules'.

On the issue we are talking about, most of the people of US don't care if security services are registering who calls who, because they know it may lead to the catching of terrorists.

Seems to me they have more common sense than many of the liberal judges you got in place, who are interpreting the Constitution so that it is making the US less moral, and less safe!!!

Annie:

How has data mining on these phone calls made anyone safer? Has been Ladin been caught? Has any member of a terrorist cell been caught as a result of this intrusion on civil liberties.

If you want to order majority rules, the most recent polls show about 53% of the population has a problem with domestic spying.

I don't get how following the constitution makes us less moral or less safe. The constitution is all about protecting the rights of the indavidual, I thought that is what America is supposed to be about.

BTW, here is the poll, from newsweek, because I know you are going to ask.

May 13, 2006 - Has the Bush administration gone too far in expanding the powers of the President to fight terrorism? Yes, say a majority of Americans, following this week’s revelation that the National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone records of U.S. citizens since the September 11 terrorist attacks. According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy,” while 41 percent see it as a necessary tool to combat terrorism.

Bryce

What I have seen on US TV, the opposite has been reported!!

The people of the US, when it is explained to them, don't mind, if it is done in order to fight terrorism!

Also, how on earth can you cater for everybody's INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS as they are being interpreted?

Right to abortion, right to marry same sex!!

What next?

Right to be married to several women at the same time, or even several men??

Why not, it could be argued!

CAN'T HURT!!!

MADNESS!!

Bryce,

Exactly what constitutional right do you think has been abridged?

Gaius

Gaius:

Right to privacy, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, stuff like that.

Annie:

How does the stuff you mention hurt anyone else?

How has data mining on these phone calls made anyone safer? Has been Ladin been caught? Has any member of a terrorist cell been caught as a result of this intrusion on civil liberties
Posted by: Bryce | Sunday, May 14, 2006 at 05:05 PM

Sir Bryce
Having worked in National Security (Crypto, Pentagon, DOD, etc), you can be sure the data mined from phone calls and other sources has saved many lives. One thing is for certain, that you and any others interested in confirmation will remain unserved if you seek or even demand evidence. The bad guys continue to usurp our freedom by taking advantage of the rules that protect our freedom. Try living in another country for awhile; I've done it for a long time and while I will admit our government looks pretty bad and isn't popular from other perspectives, we have the best living standards and protections in the world. Just go on the internet and offer to trade places with someone from "the outside" and you'll be overwhelmed with takers.

bryce

How can the stuff I mention hurt anyone else? You ask me that!!

That is the typical left wing liberal argument.

Abortion, same sex marriage!!

First off, abortion.

Women are not told the truth about abortion, and the very high risk of breast cancer. Also, that many abortions are not performed properly, and women are walking around with bits of their dead babies still inside them. This results in gynaecological problems for them for years afterwards. One woman was horrified to find her aborted baby's decapitated head emerging from her, long after the abortion was performed. Fetal matter left inside the woman is very common.

Abortion can also result in women having great difficulty in conceiving or carrying further children.

Many women suffer great psycological problems after abortion, regretting they have consented to doing this.

Partial birth abortion, - where the baby is supposedly killed as it is being born in the normal way, this can result in some babies actually being born alive, In one case, one of the nurses was so overcome with pity for the little child struggling to breath, after he had been put on one side to die, that she went and put him in an incubator. He was eventually adopted.

It has been shown that the child can actually experience pain in the womb. What a cruel thing for a mother to do to her baby, but abortion is big business, and the woman will not be told such things!

Why don't you read up on it, and find out for yourself.


Same sex marriage??

Going into schools telling young kids that it is perfectly OK?

You don't think that undermines the morals of society??

Well, if you allow that, why not allow polygamy, lowering of the age of consent of children to have sex (can't hurt if they consent!!), and so it goes on and on and on.

Everybody gets their rights to do whatever.

Forget the moral priciples of the Bible, why should they apply, they merely make some people feel bad, or are irrelevant in this modern day and age, and we can't have that can we?

Regarding homosexuality, the Bible says that the practice is an abomination in the sight of God.

I think there must be many practising Jews, Christians and Muslims, who would find it distressing for them to have to acknowledge and witness open homosexuality imposed on them, and being told they had to acknowledge that it is acceptable. Surely, just as distressing, if not more so, as it is for the athiest who complains about having the sign of the cross on public display!!

Perhaps a good case could be made by practicing Christians, Muslims and Jewse that same sex marriage is violating their rights!!

If you think all of these things are OK, then I don't think there is any more to be said regarding liberal attitudes, 'cause presumably whatever is proposed by anybody, as long as it don't hurt, it don't matter!!

Anything to improve the society you live in eh?

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