Taylor Behl - Ben Fawley Prosecution

Apparently Fawley has written approximately fifty letters from his jail cell, one is said to detail what happened to Taylor Behl the last night of her life. Fawley's lawyers are trying to have them thrown out. Video here

More details on the letter issue here via TheTimesDispatch.

Comments

[capt. joe's wife]

Hey Jude - don't be a fool...try AA, they can help you turn your life around.

[peace]

Hey Jude - I think you'd be first on the show. You're supposed to be an adult. I don't see evidence of that.

[capt. joe's wife]

Hey Jude - why did YOU get banned? I'm serious, you really shouldn't drink ao much - it destroys brain cells...

[RJ]

Jack's boy did you get that right. That Katie what a case! I have to agree with your assessment of the future with these headcases running things. What the Hell kind of education are parents paying for these days?

[jacksbleedingrectum]

ohmigoodness, Jude- looks like youse been getting the same cracker jacks as dem. Posting lunatic shiz on the internet? No, you'd never do that now wouldja looney tunes?

[RJ]

People like Fawley always do themselves in. It's a compulsion his self hatred. It is just a shame he could not stick to hurting himself instead of Taylor, his children, and countless others.

[peace]

Hey Jude - thank you for your comments towards me, but there are a few misconceptions about the rest. As far as Rowan's letter from Scott Peterson, the information that did not get passed on was that she did not sell them, an attorney or an attorney's office did. The money that was collected was donated to two charities for abused women.

I don't think that Rowan was the only person who complained about the posts on CTV - it was getting ugly and I did feel that your comments were a bit of an attack.

As far as my banning, you may know more than I do. Marilyn Bardsley and Hotwater both told me I was removed because people were uncomfortable posting with me posting on the board, that I was being hostile, creating a hostile environment (or was it a negative environment?), and that I was there with an agenda. They have yet to come up with the hostile post and I know I was not hostile. I'm actually feeling far more hostile now.

I do think it's highly irresponsible that people who are adults attack kids in their teens and early 20s for their lifestyle. I would wager that none of us have lived a pristeen lifestyle. I, personally, would not want to be judged for things I did during those years. I grew up. Some of the posters who are now adults still do not seem to have grown up. There's enough hatred and anger in the world without people adding to it. Who will be the one to stop it? Who will be the one to stop judging and putting down others? As far as I'm concerned, when people make their hostile judgments based on a little bit of knowledge and to the extreme that they have, they become low-lifes. They take life away from others. It's not right, Jude.

Katie has her own problems. Whether she should post or not is her business and I don't think that gives the right to anyone to condemn her. These kids have been through hell. I think people are striking out at them because they can't strike out at Ben. And, Jude, when you attack my son, you attack me, too. He'll still be my son even when he's 80 - and the women in my family live a LONG time (into their hundreds). These kids have been through ENOUGH. I commend Katie for turning them over. She is also a victim of Ben's deceipt. People need to leave all of these kids alone.

[Paulo]

With the greatest of respect to every poster here:

It doesn't appear to me that anyone is attacking anything or anyone. When one meddles in affairs and minds of a madman, well, quite respectfully, this altogether doesn't seem like behavior that I or any member of my family would willingly get involved with.

Please understand that I mean no harm to anyone here. However, for the life of me I don't know why anyone would want to receive letters from a murdering madman.

Furthermore, somehow these folks who are receiving letters are referred to as "kids." Seems to me the last time I checked they were students of legal age; therefore, how do we start referring to them as kids?

And lastly, "…these kids have been through enough…" Hog washing bu!!sh*t! When they have been through enough then they will stop communicating with this person. Now for all of those who are feeling very superior and old today remember this: A man is a man until he proves himself otherwise; a woman is a woman until she proves herself otherwise; therefore, stop pointing your fingers at others because when you look at your own finger, you have three pointing right at you.

Sorry, just one more thing: If one acts like an adult, one will be treated like an adult...otherwise I think you can figure it out.

BTW Jack's Smirking Revenge, I like what you're doing!

Paulo

[Captain Joe]

I wonder who Maria Serraes is, the third party who turned the fifty letters in to Johnson, Fawley's attorney. Google shows her to work at a Richmond bank and possibly plays basketball.

[peace]

Jude

First off let me be up front in saying that I have no problems with Mike's posts. Mike's angry - I'm angry. Mike has been accused of many things - of being a media whore. It was George Peterson and Taylor's mom who asked Mike to talk to the media and continue talking to the media to keep the word out there about Taylor. When they found Taylor, he stopped talking. He was followed the wishes of Peterson and Janet. Then Peterson had the - how do I say this delicately? No, I'm not feeling delicate at the moment - Peterson had the balls to call my son and tell him he better watch himself because "afterall, you ARE the one who introduced Taylor to her killer." And then Peterson posting as mjolnir on CTV. Totally unprofessional and I have no respect for the man. So, as far as Mike introducing Taylor "to her killer" - Ben was one of 3 roommates. Mike DID tell Taylor about the problems he had begun to have with Ben. Taylor was not interested. What was he supposed to do at that point? Forbid her? Mike called, texted, or IMed Taylor several when she arrived at VCU. She was busy. Had she called him that night to say she had to leave the dorm, he would have gone to get her. All she had to do was ask. She didn't. Yet the John Q Public has told him he wasn't a good friend. He said leave the judging to the jury - which I agree with by the way - and he was told he was supporting Ben. He's supporting our American Justice system. So, right now, Mike is MAD. And you know what? I'm madder. I do not have a problem with what Mike is doing. I know he attended a fetish convention. I'll bet quite a few of you out there have watched (adult) porn movies or been a bit kinky sexually. I'll bet there are a lot of people who like to be tied up. Doesn't interest me but I certainly won't tell anyone else it's wrong. There's nothing illegal about it. They weren't hurting anyone else. My son, it might amaze you, is a VERY gentle, sensitive young man. So, that he's striking out now I don't have a problem with. He's striking out because he's pissed.

So, Hotwater and Marilyn Bardsley - you want to see hostile? This is me being hostile. I'm pissed, too! It was a bunch of BS that they banned me. They know it and everyone else knows it. They have another agenda. You want to know tacky? I suspect something tacky is behind it. That's the main part of your post I agree with. Want their email addresses? I'll be happy to post them. They're public addresses.

Rowan? I have no problem with her writing to Scott Peterson and selling a letter he wrote back. I don't think it's tacky. I think you'd be surprised how many people might write to prisoners. So, then she had it and sold it. She could have kept the money. I commend her for donating that money to a charity - two of them, actually. Rowan and PK so many others were wonderful in defending me, defending Mike. They cared. They saw that there was, perhaps, another side that wasn't out there for the public. I will be forever grateful to them for posting and supporting me because sometimes it was depressing. I am saddened by others that did not defend my son. If Peterson was going to go on CTV and post, why didn't he speak up? No, instead he chose to also attack my son. He couldn't even own up to his part.

[peace]

Paulo -
Who said Katie WANTED Ben to write to her? He wrote to her. When someone writes, the postoffice is legally obligated to deliver the mail. They're NOT communicating with him. Where did you read that they were communicating with him? I actually AM interested in writing to Ben. I knew Ben, too. I'm angry that he's done this. I'd love to know why. Why did he put Taylor's family through a month of hell, why did he sit by and watch all his friends' lives torn apart? You, sir, have NO CLUE what they've been through.

[Captain Joe]

Judge rules new trial date is Aug 17. Letters must be turned over to pros.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-va--brf-missingstuden0405apr05,0,4618858.story?coll=dp-headlines-virginia

[peace]

Jude - I'll answer a couple of these, but one at a time:

1 - "So are you implying that Peterson, right at the beginning, said Mike has to do A, B and C, and if Mike didn't comply, then Peterson would tie him to the crime because he introduced Taylor to Ben? That's a serious charge. That's how it's coming across, that there was a threat of some type and Mike didn't have a choice. As far as media whore, I don't know about that. I really never heard of him until after Taylor's body was found."

No - that's not what I was saying. Initially Mike was asked by George O. Peterson, Janet's attorney, and by Janet to talk to the media. You, personally may not have called him a media whore, but he got a lot of flack for talking to the media, for his interviews with Nancy Grace (I think that's her name - CNN) where she took parts of a prior interview and aired what she wanted, his interviews with the newspapers, etc. Many of these people posted on CTV and slammed him. Peterson could post on CTV as gopeterson and as mjolnir and slam Mike, but never once did he say, "I asked Mike to do this." Janet is grieving and I am forgiving of her not speaking up even though it was hurtful - in a state of grief, it's hard to process all that was going on. It was after Nancy Grace took the parts that she wanted and aired them - out of context, mind you - that precipitated a phone call from Peterson saying, "It looks like you don't care about Taylor and that you're supporting Ben." Mike told him he cared very much about Taylor and Peterson replied, "Yeah, well, you'd better be careful because you ARE the one that introduced her to her killer." or something to that effect.

2 - "As far as Mike telling Taylor anything, we'll never really know. In October he said he didn't think there was really anything wrong with Ben, now he says he did. Whatever. "

You say "we'll never really know", but this is frustrating to me. It seems that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he doesn't say it, he gets badgered for not saying it. If he says he did say it, that's not believed. This is why he doesn't say it on his journal. He won't give in to the "anony e-mob" or whatever he calls them. You don't have to believe it, Jude. That's fine. You don't know him and he owes the general population nothing. As far as saying there wasn't really anything wrong with Ben - I, too, initially said no way, Jude. Ben had issues, Ben wasn't a model citizen, Ben had a juvie record, but no where ever did I see anything that suggested he would kill anyone. This has been a shock for us all.

And lastly:
3 - "No, I don't think it's normal to tie people up. Yes, I think people who want to be tied up to get off have problems. Yes, putting holes everywhere in your body is not normal. Yes, cutting yourself with razor blades is wrong. Yes, head-to-toe tattoos are strange and bizarre. No, I'm not afraid to tell my children these types of behaviors are deviant and are a sign of some type of mental disturbance. Yes, if I see this behavior I will take IMMEDIATE steps to reverse it. That's MY right as a parent."

Hmm, where do I begin. How about - I agree - I don't want to be tied up. I don't want piercings all over. I don't want tatoos. My children DO know how I feel about that (well, okay - I haven't talked to my kids about my sexual likes and dislikes). I DO tell them it unfortunately sends a first impression. And you know what - since I don't like those things, I choose not to do them. I don't agree that they're deviant or a sign of a mental disturbance. There was a lot of stuff that our generation did (I'm assuming you're my generation - I'm 46). We were considered deviant, too. I ask my kids to do their best, to be kind to others, to be honest and fair. I correct them if they're wrong. I think asking my kids and asking any of the kids at the school where I work that I am very strict. But I choose my battles. I try not to judge by appearances. I used to. I remember some of the kids who were in the school plays. I "got stuck" talking to one young "goth" lady. I found her to be extremely intelligent, very kind and accepting, articulate, insightful, and enjoyable. I have a lot of faith in our youth. I just spent 4 days with 124 high school students in Florida. They're an awesome generation. Certainly not all of them. There were four of them that got on my "bad side". Mike's description of my "bad side" is that it "ain't pretty". The rest of the kids were shocked because they don't have to deal with that side of me. But four kids crossed the line. So again, I say choose your battles. And appearances isn't a battle I'm going to pick. There are far more important things.

[RJ]

peace I have read your sons LJ and heard his interviews. Anyone who blames him or believes he in any way led Taylor to her fate is a fool. I do believe that your son is a smart and gentle human. As for Katie read her journal. She has deep feelings for Ben and never expressed any sympathy for Taylor or Bens children atleast not in the beggining. All she did was talk about how much she missed Ben. She reveals quite a bit about herself and some thoughts and feelings that she should not if she does not want them to be commented on. In that circle ther are many who don't think what happened was a tragedy. I do think as they grow further into adulthood that those perceptions will change. Atleast I hope they do.

[peace]

RJ - thank you for your kindness towards my son. I do appreciate that.

As far as Katie, I have read some of her journal and understand that she has things that she struggles with. I am sorry for Katie. I don't think that she knew Taylor - I don't really recall. But she's a young woman and is dealing with so many things. Understand that I, too, as an adult knew Ben. I took Mike and his roommates to lunch on several occasions. It was months of talking to Ben before I realized he had to be in his 30's and not early 20's. Turned out he was just turning 36. I had a lot of trouble accepting that Ben could have killed anyone. Whether it was the nature of manipulation, his mental illness, whatever - I have no idea. But for those who knew him - it's hard to accept. And it hurts to think he did that or that he may have betrayed us. Does that make sense? Katie also has to deal with that. I won't judge Katie. She has enough to deal with.

I only hope that all of these kids/young men and women are able to move past this and get on with their own lives. Taylor's life has ended - we don't need anyone else's life to end.

[abigail]

You guys left, changed your name(s) and personalitie(s). Why is this becoming an attack zone? Is everyone PMSing? I know I am, but I'm trying not to prove it! :) I only read a few posts and it's quite sad. We used to all try to get along. Who took a bite of that apple? HUH? Bfs a jackass, Taylor is gone, let's focus on that, not on attacking each other like I don't know--crackheads... love you guys, let's get back to why we are here.

[abigail]

Okay, skimmed the rest and it seems we are all making up and trying to understand each other again! Hey Peace! xoxoxo.
Do you guys think bf really wrote truthful letters or are they just a ruse? Perhaps he's being deviant again. That was his protocol after all. Is it a "plan" between him and a certain someone? Then again if it's nothing the prosecuters have not heard why would they want them admitted? Is he throwing a wrench or has he been broken down enough?

[peace]

Hi, Abby -

I don't think he had a plan with Katie. Katie is on his list of victims. I don't know if they're a ruse or not. I don't know if he's on his meds or not or whether he's still in solitary or not. But Ben has always struck me as someone who needs to be around people.

Sorry about the anger - you know I won't leave these "kids" out for everyone to bash. Good to see you again!

[abigail]

I don't know what he's up to. But if Katie is on his "list" then he may be taking advantage of her either way. Who knows with this guy?
Everyone gets angry, but it was just weird seeing it here--I've seen it on Natalee blogs on this site, but usually on the Taylor site it's not bad and I was not really talking about you. You were doing what a mother does. Like I've said before, until I hear "proof" of others being involved I really have no interest in them. Mike was not Taylors "keeper". I don't believe he was an accomplice or anyone else for that matter. I'm sure bf would have sung like a canary if he could have figured out someone else to blame other than himself or T. bf should have stayed the hell away from all college girls unless they were over 30! Uhhhggg.

[peace]

Actually - I usually don't come here but was told I should. I have had more issues with this seeming more like a free-for-all and anything could be said. There were times I found some of it almost libelous (sp?) and there is one specific poster I consider somewhat of a stalker and have spoken to an attorney. People need to be responsible for what they say. The internet makes it too easy to say what you want without seeing what happens.

On CTV, "singlesix" made a comment about "sticks and stones". The truth is that what we were all told growing up is BS. Sticks and Stones may break your bones but names will forever hurt you. That's what I teach my students.

[abigail]

People do get "banned" from here, but you have to remember it's a much smaller place then CTV. RWV is a one man operation. If there are problems you can email Dan or he may catch them and he will give warnings or ban if he has to. Censorship is "UnAmerican", however we all need to be reponsible for what we say and type. That's why I try to type "IMO" or "this is what I think". Can't get in trouble for that unless you state it as fact, but I could be wrong and probably am! :)
Yes, I'd rather have the crap beat out of me a million times then have emotional hurt. I'd be willing to be chained and stoned to have my momma back, but unfortunately that's not how it works. I would take a beating to ensure my kid does not get teased because she's got a gap the size of the sun in between her two front teeth, but kids will be kids. You are doing a great thing though teaching your students that bullying is wrong. Empathy is the way to go. Isabel got attacked for her empathy though--think I told you about that, but I'm proud of her for sticking up for the "underdog" even though she was told her head was going to get chopped off or she was going to be fed to the sharks in the River. Little punk. I did what you are doing, I called the school and stuck up for my kid. Of course this same kid punched her in the chest a few months ago on the bus because she put her hands over her ears while he threatened her and another girl. I've never called before, so I'm not one of "those" parents, but this kid has a history and I thought they should know what I heard. I'm rambling--sorry!

[error404]

...And so it begins.

Peace, my heart goes out to you and everyone who has been affected by this horrific tragedy. Sadly, I see things only getting harder for you all as the trial becomes public fodder once again.

I've been following this case from the onset and have been humbled by the amount of restraint your son and his friends have shown, I know that numerous youngsters haven't, when faced with similar confrontations, been able to demonstrate the civility and maturity that these youngsters have shown. That in itself speaks volumes about their characters.

I feel a deep amount of empathy for EVERYONE in the real world who has been affected by this tragedy, I know all too well how something like this can tear your life and perceptions to pieces.

I only wish that the people in the internet world, who are lashing out from their own feelings of hurt and anger, would try, even for one minute, to put themselves in the shoes of those in the real world. My bet is that they have never had a tragedy of this magnitude affect their own lives, and if they haven't, they should feel both blessed and thankful.

If only everyone would only take a deep breath and wait for all of the facts of the case to unfold.

There is so much displaced hurt and anger going around.

Peace and strength to you and yours for the upcoming months ahead.

I think you'll need it...

Good luck.

[k]

I still think he has been and is probably still manipulating his young girlfriends...like Katie, etc.
I also believe that one of these young females, who were "kids" when he met them and laid his tainted hands on them, does know more than they have said and possibly even where evidence to his probable guilt might have ended up. Take that camera/photocard, whatever, and the tripod for example. I'll bet one of the girls was asked to hide things for BF...I'll bet it went something like this:"oh, So & So, You know me, i couldn't intentionally hurt even a fly, it was an accident I tell you... I didn't mean for any of this to happen...please keep this stuff safe for me, for when I am proven innocent and can be free to be with you..."

Thank God, that trial was not postponed til September. That should be a month to honor Taylor's passing since, afterall, that manipulative BF took away the spotlight on Taylor's mom's birthday and on Taylor's memorial/burial service. Just remember he seems to have a way of timing things like his "confession" to coincide with anniversaries of one sort or another. BF BF!!!!! I hope they don't put him in solitary and that someone even more crafty, at the new Jail, gives him a "memorable" birthday gift as dates seem so important to that BF. And now it's his Birthday month. Reference Katie, who knows when she turned over the letters or received the first & last one...but she says she has moved at least two times since September so for the letters to get to her she had to have responded, it seems.

[peace]

Error 404 - Thank you. I've followed your posts for a while and know you understand from a personal perspective. I'm sorry for your loss. I am extremely proud of these young ladies and gentlemen (I call them "kids" but I think some didn't like it). Of course, I'm especially proud of my son. I wonder how many of us "adults" would have handled this had they found themselves in a tragedy such as this? I'm always amazed at the people who "know" how they would act as there is no way of knowing unless you're in their shoes. We can imagine or think, but we couldn't KNOW.

k - Thank you, also. I don't believe that any of these "young females" are holding anything back. At this point it would only be to their loss. I believe that they've told LE everything they know. They've also become victims of this horrible tragedy.

Wouldn't it be so easy to turn the clock back and do things differently? Taylor would still be here today. Wouldn't it be nice to have hind-sight?

[error404]

Jack's Smirking Revenge, I'm not putting these kids on pedestals, I'm simply respecting the way they are handling the public attacks, I KNOW that I probably wouldn't show the same amount of self-control and restraint, given the same circumstances.

How many youngsters could handle people calling them 'Fags', 'Sluts', 'Homos' and so on, without retaliating and resorting to the same behaviour?

Secondly, unfortunately I know all too well, that I'm not the only person in the world who has been touched by tragedy, which is why I stated in my post that 'MANY' people, would not know what it feels like...

And thirdly yes, I do tend to lecture, my own teenage son tells me the same thing, I apologise for that, it must be something to do with the teacher in me.

[error404]

ah crap, I DIDN't use the word 'many' in my original post. Apologies JSM, it DID sound as if I was generalising when I was talking about those unaffected by tragedy.

JSM you make many sound, valid points about the youth of today, I just don't think that the they apply to THESE particular kids.

[Rick]

Now we are assuming that because Katie has moved twice that she is corresponding with fawley. And that someone else cares enough for fawley to hide evidence. Willing to go to Jail rather than giving up evidence when the murderer has confessed and will be punished. I'd like to sell the Brooklyn bridge, would one of you morons like to buy it? It's on ebay.

[k]

Rick,
Just saying, dependant on when the last of the 46 letters was received, unless they just got forwarded to the new "addresses", that he had the correct address to get the mail to her. I don't know, that sounds logical...now doesn't it...and at least, initially, she writes of how she cared enough to clean out his apartment, loose alot of personal items to the search warrant process, and be saddened by the fact that she wasn't on the visitor's list at the Richmond Jail. She wrote of all of this and how she was glad to hear that she could put money on his BF's jail account so poor ben could buy some stuff. Yes, I do think it's concievable that one of his many female friends may care enough and be swayed enough to try to help him if she thought he was a victim of an awful accident. Half these girls did know of one another. And even after being abused by him, in one way or another, would still socialize with him. Don't always try to be so hardcore...it's not like we haven't been here since September 2005. Some of us do have very good memories.

[Rick]

k, you're right, I was in a bad mood and I've also been here since Sept....maybe before. I'm not hardcore I just dont like some of the speculation that goes on. I've had the same PO box 24 years but lived in three homes in that time. The jailers know whom prisoners send mait to and who they get mail from. Still, the letters were turned over to the cops....before the trial. fawley never lost a tripod or anything else because he was never kidnapped. He confessed to the murder, there's no need for anyone to hide anything. He did not lay awake nights planning this thing and we've all spend hours speculating on how he "accidentally" cut her air off. Truth is it could've happened half a dozen ways. As far as Cino introducing them. That may well be, but it was dear old dad who dropped his 17 year old daughter off to spend the weekend with two men.
But I hurt your feelings before and I apologize

[abigail]

Rick, oh my gosh your alive! Love ya, but this is no ones fault but bfs. Many people probably wished they could have hindsite in this. Bf could have targeted Taylor even at a glance. He did not kill her that night she visited. He calculated and tried to get her to trust him. It seems she did at first, but changed her mind. He is old enough to be her dad! Why do some not realize his responsibility for his actions? What if dad left her with some girls and they invited bf over? I think it would have been the same outcome. Do you think he's not blaming himself? Don't you think he wishes he had a time machine? Most parents don't intend to put their kids in harms way. If he was to blame he would have been charged with something. All of this is a shame, but one person is at fault here and you know that.
I'm dissapointed in you guys and you know who you are--whether you care or not anymore. What's done is done and now we need to focus on justice and a trial that will land this bastard in jail for the rest of his sleazy life. If he had not gotten to Taylor I think he would have gotten another young victim. He never needs to be free again. We all need to work towards that and stop blaming others.

[vedder]

Rick, I agree. Never would I have left my 17 yr old daughter with 3 men for the weekend. Never...I don't care who they were, BUT...

"dear old dad" didn't make Taylor use "jailbait" as her moniker..
"dear old dad" didn't make her "climb onto Ben's bunkbed..."
"dear old dad" didn't make her lie to her Mother and spend the weekend/sleep with a 40 yr old loser...

As much as it pains me to say this, these were horrible, horrible choice's Taylor made herself...Now as much as I believe that that weekend was the catalyst(I know, Kathy, I know)to this whole nightmare, I don't think we can really blame her Father....Maybe he thought he was giving her the independence she had been wanting so deperately..

Now ,Matt didn't know he was leaving his daughter with a 38yr old emotionally retarded scumbag. He thought she was going to sit in on some classes, get a feel for the campus, maybe get to see her get really excited about something for a change. He thought he was doing the right thing.
He had no idea Taylor was going to get a 3 month pass to "Club Fawley"(I stole that from you Jude)That was again, a poor choice made by Taylor...

I also know that many Father's have a hard time(right or wrong) saying "NO" to their little girls. Maybe he did go against his better judgement, I don't know...

I do know that I had always wished Taylor had used better judgement,but, sadly, she did not. So beautiful, so young, so trusting..The whole damn thing is just so heartbreaking...All of it...

You have no idea how much you are loved baby girl...

[Rick]

vedder and darling Pooh, I'm in total agreement that we cannot blame daddy. The point was that Cino merely introduced them. And as far as we know discouraged her from "dating" the guy. Someone thought she was old enough to make her own decisions and she made definately poor ones it turned out.SO like it or not, she has to share the blame. In the end,bf is the one who killed her, the one who discarded her like so much trash and the one who mocked her by pretending to help look for her. Until I see proof otherwise I will accept the "accident" defense.......but the cover up was totally premeditated and cruel.

[k]

Yay, Calmer Rick has returned. Yes, bad choices all around...and lots of young needy girls for a BF to prey on. He must be kept away from the likes of Taylor, Erin, Katie, Maria,the list goes on & on...But isn't it a shame that we can't find a way to teach our kids, before they are off on their own, the necessary skills to see the predators for who they are...Maybe the trick here is to really study the behaviors of these known predators and look for some common denominators; so as we might come up with some useful tips to protect our young people. (Male & Female)

[peace]

My, my, my - just when I thought things were calming down.

First - (((((((((((Vedder)))))))))) I am SO happy to see you here, as you know.

Jude - you can link Vedder's comment to me. While I wouldn't go so far to say that Mike warned Taylor not to "date" Ben (he would not presume to tell anyone what to do), she was aware of the problems Ben and Mike started having. There was discussion and she made her own choices. As far as your comment: "IOW, are people picketing outside mike's house? no. Are people calling him non-stop, calling him a murderer? no. are people putting posters all over the fan IDing him or hildy as "bad" people? no. Are newspaper articles targeting him and the goths? no. So what do they need to show "self-control and restraint" over? Are you asserting his life is being destroyed over some comments on the Internet? And if all this IS happening, what haven't we heard about it?" No - people are not picketing, but you have only to read some of the posts to know an inkling of what they've been through. And there's more, but we don't need to go into that and I won't go into that. This has also turned their lives upside down. You don't have to agree with that. Katie is not even a drinking age adult yet. These are young adults and again I say that I wonder what some of these so-called adults commenting their filth to these young ladies and men would have done in the same situation. It's disgusting. I will say, Jude, that the persecution IS there.

I cringe to see the posts about Taylor's father. For those of you parents - you know how we constantly feel the blame for anything our kids experience. I know my parents will never forgive themselves for my brother's suicide even though I know that they are not to blame. But you always look back and say, "If I had done such and such instead of whatever . . .". There were four people living in the apartment at the time and they weren't all males. I'm sure Matt knew that. Or at least knew that there was a female there. I can't believe he would have left his daughter there if he had any inkling that she would be unsafe. And the truth is - she was not unsafe that weekend. Even if she had stayed in the hotel with him, she still would have met Ben. So whatever Matt did or did not do is not relevant.

[Rick]

And as far as we know discouraged her from "dating" the guy.
Posted by: Rick | Friday, April 07, 2006 at 08:51 AM

Rick, could you link your source of this statement? And could you date the source?

The source is me, the date is whatever date I wrote it. The words "as far as we know" qualify the entire sentence as meaning that we have no idea what Cino said about bf.

[error404]

JSM - Let's say, hypothetically, for once, that yourself, or various other posters here, were to make a post based solely on the FACTS of the case presented to date, and that your posts were to exclude any aspect of blame, presumption, name-calling, personal bias, stereotyping and so on, just WHAT, of any substance, would you have to 'discuss' - and, more importantly, who would 'react' or even give a toss, what you should have to say?

In fact, until all of the facts and perspectives about this case have been presented in court, I doubt there would be very much at all that ANYONE, myself included, could debate at all.

Therefore, until there is anything factual of substance to discuss, for fear of making as much of an ass of myself as many others here are doing, I will opt out of this 'debate', because, the reality is, there is very little information to-hand worthy of 'debating', but far too many differences in opinion that we could 'argue' about.

Best of luck and strength to all those in the real world, who, tragically have to cope with so much more, than many of their e-mob posters have to worry about.

[peace]

And as far as we know discouraged her from "dating" the guy.
Posted by: Rick | Friday, April 07, 2006 at 08:51 AM

Rick, could you link your source of this statement? And could you date the source?

The source is me, the date is whatever date I wrote it. The words "as far as we know" qualify the entire sentence as meaning that we have no idea what Cino said about bf.

Posted by: Rick | Friday, April 07, 2006 at 03:42 PM

Rick - my apologies. I somehow got it in my head that Vedder had said that and we'd discussed it before. I do appreciate your thoughts and your putting it into the proper perspective. Thank you.

[Captain Joe]

Was Fawley trolling for another 18 year old female victim on September 2-3, 2005.

Check this out at the bottom of the comments section.

http://nursemaddy.deviantart.com/

[IslandHney]

Wow Captain Joe, I forgot about this. Taylor's birthday is around the 13th of October. She would have turned 18.

Deviant: ~skulz (#167218322)
Date: Sep 2, 2005, 12:11:06 PM
:: Thanx for takin' a look @ my Gallery. I am glad you like. I know the deal, a friend is about to hit 18 in October as well and she can't wait. As for "porn, porn, porn..... I am a photographer with work up @ "porn" sites and well there is something to be said about it. I don't do "hard-core" as that just isn't my thing. Your art is good. I was an art major and I can not draw people to save my life. ::

Skulz

[IslandHney]

I guess I see what you were referencing on her site - maddy is listed as currently 18. Didn't catch that at first.

[Rick]

peace,
We've all been back and forth over this case, doing a lot of speculating. So someone may very well have said something similar to what I said.My whole intention as it has been all along was to illustrate the foolishness of blaming fawley's friends for any part in this. For the same reason I mentioned daddy dropping her off to stay at Cino's. While I don't agree with him doing that. I certainly dont think it brought Taylor any closer to being murdered.There is no huge conspiracy, no hiding of evidence, no sneeking letters hither and yon. If I am wrong it will come to light and I will be first to agree that the perp pay for the crime.

[abigail]

Slow down, who made bad choices and poor decisions? Has anywone stopped to think that a 38 year old man made bad choices? Taylor was a kid, a child! Think back 10, 20 or however many years when you were a teen. "If I knew then what I know now...." does that ever pop into your minds? Luckily all of us here survived it. Everyone makes stupid choices whether out of ignorance, immaturity or what have you and when you are a teen it can be downright crazy. However, we have a grown adult with 2 girls of his own that let a child "climb into his bunk". Did I ever hear Janet blame Taylors father? If bf was not a roomie of Cino and whoever else, Taylor would probably still be around. If bf did not exist we would have never heard her name and I wish that's how it was. Don't you think her parents are punishing themselves enough without our help? It's all part of "letting go", from taking them to day care for the first time (if you're not able to stay home), to the first field trip, to the first day of kindergarten and riding the bus--that's as far as I've gotten so far.:) It's hard, and sending a kid away to college has got to be grueling on the heart and mind. So let's say Taylor stayed with her dad that weekend, so we don't think she'd be hanging out with Cino once school started? Once kids go off to college what are you gonna do? You can't watch over them and protect them like you want to. It's growing up time and being on your own time. bf took that away from Taylor, no one else.

[peace]

Thanks, Abby - I think that's what Rick is saying.

Rick - I've been reading Riehl World off and on since Sept/October. I've got one of the worst memories around - but I do get strong impressions and I think that, for the most part, your posts have not blamed anyone but Ben. I recall battling with you a little bit early on, but I think there were a few people I battled with then that are not so . . . "agressive" now. In my early posts I didn't come forward with my identity, although it hit a point on CTV that I knew it was time to step forward.

So, thank you - Abby and Rick. We have several bad choices that were made. People make these sorts of bad choices every day. Fortunately, they don't all have the same outcome. I know you've seen the pictures of Taylor and her smile. It was the picture of that smile that flashed the memory of her sitting on my couch downstairs. She will be missed by all.

[Rick]

peace
You're right, I've never blamed anyone but ben, exxcept to say that others including Taylor made bad choices. Still in the end he did it (his own admission) and deserves to pay. What I have done, like Cino, is defend the system because the jurists will know more than we ever will. I have also defended Mike and the others as victims themselves. Frankly they are the kinds of people I want as friends if I am ever in trouble.....willing to wait for facts before feeding me to the wolves. I'm sorry to Abby but I do not accept 17 years and 10 months as being "a child". Maybe in our day but these kids today are far more worldly and it was Taylor's choice to get with ben. Yeah sure, the proper adult thing to do was to turn her away. The "legal" thing to do was to wait until her birthday and the magic pixie dust that would imbue her with all of the adult faculties of that grand age. I do not recall ever arguing with you peace, because I've always suspected that you were closer to those involved than you let on. That and you've pretty much agreed with my "let the system do it's job" approach.

[peace]

Rick - KUDOS!!! I agree with you 100%. It does not really matter what we all "think" happened, although we all have our opinions. As for me, our country isn't perfect, but it's a darned fine country and I'm very proud of it. We put our justice system into place and now we need to let them decide. We do not have all of the facts that the jury will have. Thank you for being so level-headed.

[abigail]

Rick, she was a child, she was a "baby"--Janet and Matts. Sure she made a choice at first but I think he took advantage of her. He had a camera and told her how beautiful she was and probably told her she could model. Perhaps he told her she could do porn and that's when she decided she did not want to be involved.
And no, even the "birthday" of legal consent should have been refused by someone old enough to be her parent. He's a freak and he took advantage of her all the way around. She tried to be polite and he could not believe he was "shafted" by a teen. Oh, sexy bf--whatever. You saw those pictures of him in his "panties". Not sexy, but he thought he was. He looks 12 and repulsive. We all make bad choices even as grown ups, but none like bf--as far as I know here! :) Life is about choices, some bad, some great. As a parent I screw up and I will probably continue to do so, but I tell my girl when I'm wrong and strive to do a better job, however, my shortcomings don't break the law. Just hope he did not invite his kids into his bunk, he might have-- given a few years time...
Love you guys!

[peace]

My first roommate, when I was 19, was dating a guy with a daughter/son (I can't recall now - too long ago :-() who was within a couple years of her. I did tell her I thought he was too old for her, but she was happy and he was fun. Fortunately, it didn't have the same tragic ending. They both fulfilled some sort of need in each other. I didn't see the attraction, but I wasn't the one in the relationship. I think this happens more often than we realize. How many celebrities date someone old/young enough (although it's usually young) to be their child or even grandchild?

[nova]

And how many celebrities are good role models? That is no place to look for guidance.
Peace: I thought you wrote over on CTV that The Riehl World was a tabloid like Star Weekly and that you wanted nothing to do with it. But now I see you over here. Welcome to the free for all. It really is more like a dodge ball game for adults.

[Captain Joe]

A little information on Maria Serraes who received the letters from Hildy and turned them over to Johnson, Fawley's lawyer.

Apparently a civil judgement against her by Bon Secours Richmond Health System.

Richmond General District / Civil
Case Details

Case Number: GV05046149-00 Filed: 08/18/05 Case Type: Warrant in Debt Debt Type: Open Account Number of Plaintiffs: 01 Number of Defendants: 01 Possession:

Plaintiff #1 Information:Name: BON SECOURS RICHMOND HEALTH SYSTEMTrading As: Judgment: PlaintiffDefendant #1 Information:Name: SERRAES, MARIA STrading As: Judgment: PlaintiffAttorneysPlaintiff Attorney: SPINELLA, OWINGS Defendant Attorney: Defendant #2 Information:Name: Trading As: Judgment: HearingsNumberDateTimeResultType01 09/28/05 1000AM Default Judgment Judgment: Plaintiff Judgment Amount: $6,325.84 Other Amount: $.00 Interest Award: 6 % FROM 9-28-05 Cost: $64.00 Attorney Fees: Is Judgment Satisfied: Date Satisfied: Homestead Exemption Waived: Other:

[jack's smirking revenge]

And as far as we know discouraged her from "dating" the guy.
Posted by: Rick | Friday, April 07, 2006 at 08:51 AM

The source is me, the date is whatever date I wrote it. The words "as far as we know" qualify the entire sentence as meaning that we have no idea what Cino said about bf.

Thanks for the lecture on interpretation of the language Rick. I'll be sure to note that anytime I hear someone say "As far as we know" that it really means the person has no rational data to back up the claim and the following statement is complete hogwash. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Perhaps the president should have said, "As far as we know, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

I would have got it then.

I also enjoyed this statement: "I have also defended Mike and the others as victims themselves. "

But then I remembered you said this in October:

I would not have dropped my 17 year old off at a 22 yo man's apartment to spend the weekend either and would not have allowed a 37 year old to smile at her.

Posted by: Rick | Friday, October 21, 2005 at 11:24 AM

Hmmm. But if you support Mike as a victim, why would you have any concern about dropping off your 17-YO daughter at his place for the weekend? If he was a "victim," then you would have been confortable with your 17-YO daughter with him. He would have been the ONLY one who provided the safety net. You're confusing me buddy.

And dear, dear Error. I see so many inconsistencies. Above you say: "There is so much displaced hurt and anger going around." and you opine for everyone to just get along and embrace everyone Taylor ever knew.
But apparently you yourself have enough anger to go around for everyone. Gee, you sound real angry here:

"...and that your posts were to exclude any aspect of blame, presumption, name-calling, personal bias, stereotyping and so on, just WHAT, of any substance, would you have to 'discuss' - and, more importantly, who would 'react' or even give a toss, what you should have to say?"

Anyone think Error has displaced anger in this statement?
"Therefore, until there is anything factual of substance to discuss, for fear of making as much of an ass of myself as many others here are doing, I will opt out of this 'debate'"

But see, she's a hypocrite. Because when she has no rational response, she just "opts herself out of the debate." Of course she said this before too. I seem to recall she said a month ago she was bidding us adios until the trial started.
But all it takes to draw her out, apparently, is a negative statement about anyone in taylor's circle who was not Ben Fawley.
So IOW, she has no response to what, if any, REAL WORLD "damages" Mike and crew sustained and from where. And having no rational counterpoint, she simply calls us assholes and takes her toys home.
A teacher? Thank God you aren't teaching my children. You are have too much displaced anger inside you to be anywhere near children. and that's REAL WORLD missy. Not some parallel universe you live in.