Duke LaCrosse Players Arrested

Two Duke LaCrosse players have been arrested.

The two men, who attorneys say are sophomore Reade Seligmann and sophomore Collin Finnerty, surrendered to authorities at the Durham County Magistrate’s Office at about 4:55 a.m.”

Also, Dilby has posted information on the accuser on line. I won't link it at this time.

Durham police arrested Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, said Col. George Naylor of the Durham County jail. The arrests come little more than a month after a stripper told police she was raped at a party thrown by the team.

Naylor said the players' bond was set at $400,000. If they are unable to post bond, the players will make a first court appearance Tuesday. Seligmann, is 6-foot-1 sophomore from Essex Fells, N.J. Finnerty is a 6-foot-3 sophomore from Garden City, N.Y.

And in the Holloway case, apparently a Dutch newspaper has an image up of the man currently being detained pictured with his sister.

Comments

[mylena]

what are you trying to tell xxx ? that she wasnt raped, or that she was raped by her boyfriend?

[xxx]

Okay, I stand corrected on the drugged drink theory. If they dosed her with a date rape drug it would definitely show up given that she went to the hospital within a couple of hours of the alleged rape.

I have no idea whether she was raped or whether she had sex w/her boyfriend as part of a scam to get money after the fact, but it is my opinion that based on what is known about the case her account is extremely suspicious and as yet, appears not to be backed up by any facts or evidence.

[jkatl]

I know you think Rita Cosby is some sensationalistic journalist, but I'm sure MSNBC and NBC by extension have journalistic fact checking and reporting guidelines that she must follow. And she is consistently mentioning that the trauma nurse at Duke U hosp says SEVERE vaginal trauma. Two different reports now by Cosby who is in Durham today, when she mentions "Severe vaginal trauma" she follows it up by saying the nurse's own words.

[xxx]

She also reported yesterday that the new guy arrested in Aruba knew Joran van der Sloot and had been communicating with him for months, which appears to be totally false...so I have to take Rita with a grain of salt and not just believe her when she says what I want her to...if she can be that wrong on the Natalee case she can be that wrong on this rape case...

[Sgt. York]

YES: Victim identified her three attackers as Adam, Bret, and Matt... we already knew that.

Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty were arrested.

[mylena]

@xxx i see, still i think you should take in consideration, if you went under severe trauma (rape) it's not easy to stay sane and tell the story straight, just because of all the emotions you going trhough. Rape is a very difficult case for facts and evidence, and peope who are raped know that. Most dont' even make a case out of it or dont even tell anyone.

But as this case evolves and if this goes to trial, we will know about the evidence.

[tester]

"piece of paper--in vehicle suckie suckie $5.00."

What is this?

[xxx]

Mylena,

I agree with everything you said, but in my opinion, what we know of the facts don't jive.

If these guys raped this woman, a stripper, why wouldn't they have admitted to sex and said she was a hooker?

It was their lawyers who publicly said there would be NO DNA found on her and they said this well before the tests were completed...wouldn't it be risky for these guys to say with absolute certainly no DNA would be found if they really had sex with her? They would have looked 100% guilty if the test results came back and their DNA was found on her....why would their lawyers take such a risk.

And what happened to the DA's initial stance that DNA was going to prove who was guilty and now all of a sudden it is immaterial to the case...it makes me believe that her statement did not mention condoms and was not told in such a way as to make the DA think these guys did wear condoms.

There may be more to her story than what I know of, but what is going to happen if the results come back that the drugs in her system weren't date rape drugs but some other drug??

[Florida Patty]

Probably cause affidavit:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke3.html
"I'm gonna shove this up you" while holding a broom stick...
The victim and her fellow dancer decided to exit the residence because they were concerned for their safety. They were approached by one of the suspects. He apologized and requested they go back inside and continue to dance. Shortly after going back into the dwelling, the two women were seperated.

...three males (Adam, Bret and Matt)forcefully held her legs and arms and raped and sexually assaulted her anally, vaginally and orally. The victim stated she was hit, kicked and strangled during the assault. ...the victim's four red polished fingernails were recovered inside the residence consistant to her version of the attack. She claimed that she was clawing at one of the suspect's arms in an attempt to breath while
being strangled. During that time the nails broke off.

...claiming $400 cash in all twenty dollar bills was taken from her purse immediately after the rape.

...medical records and interviews that were obtained by a subpeona revealed the victim had signs, symptoms and injuries consistant with being raped and sexually assaulted vaginally and anally. Furthermore, the SANE (forensic sexual assault nurse) nurse stated the injuries and her behavior were consistant with a traumatic experience...

HEADSUP:
...
THE VICTIM DID NOT THINK THE NAMES THE SUSPECTS WERE PROVIDING HER WERE THEIR OWN. SHE STATED ONE MALE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS ADAM, BUT EVERYONE AT THE PARTY WAS CALLING HIM DAN...
...IN ADDITION, THE WITNESS/CO-WORKER STATED THE MEN AT THE PARTY TOLD HER THEY WERE MEMBERS OF THE DUKE BASEBALL AND TRACK TEAM TO HIDE THE TRUE IDENTITY OF THEIR SPORTS AFFILIATION--DUKE LACROSSE TEAM PLAYERS-...MR. FLANNERY ADMITTED USING AN ALIAS TO MAKE THE RESERVATION TO HAVE THE DANCERS ATTEND THE LACROSSE TEAM PARTY...

...KNEW EVERYONE THERE (LACROSSE TEAM) AND THERE WERE NO STRANGERS WHO SHOWED UP AT THE EVENT...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke4.html

[Mylena]

@xxx First of all I do not know the facts, we are making speculations. If we would take your way, and she is trying to frame, then she will know right now that will not stand. If they go ahead and try the case there HAS to be enough evidence.

The boys may say there wasn't any rape (But Kobe bryant said that at first too), until they will be faced with evidence. Even in a case that condoms are used, there maybe hairs, semen on her clothes, or whatever, what still could proof something. I think they boys say this because she is a stripper, you are not supposed to have sex with a stripper. I'm interested in how they booked her ? through an agency ? what did they said when they were booking her ? According what I read was that she thought she was going to strip for a bachelor party. I think when she found out it wasn't she should have left. If so (bachelor party) why were the boys lying ? also when asked about what kind of stripper they wanted, what did they want ? (black, short, tall etc.)

It could ofcourse also be that she was raped by someone else, that in rare cases happens.

[jkatl]

She also reported yesterday that the new guy arrested in Aruba knew Joran van der Sloot and had been communicating with him for months, which appears to be totally false...

Once again, that is what joran and Joe Tacopina would have you believe, we know Joran always tell the truth so that must be the case right?

Rita reported what she was told by quote "Aruban Authorities" and when challenged that Tacopina was maintaining Joran told him he did not know GVC, rita said something to the effect- between what joran says and what I hear from the Aruban authorities I'll go with the Aruban authorities. I don't think Rita Cosby makes things up out of thin air

[xxx]

If this woman is telling the truth then the guys should go to prison, but god forbid, she made up a story because she was afraid of getting arrested, due to her prior conviction, and it has now spiraled out of her control then she needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I usually believe rape victims, I believe that Kobe was probably guilty, but at this point, what I know of the facts don't seem to add up.

If GHB was in her blood and she told police someone gave her a drink that made her dizzy, then I would change my mind. If her blood is on any of these guys clothes then I would change my mind. If any of these guys change their testimony to 'consensual sex' then I would DEFINITELY change my mind.

But right now, to me, the evidence leans away from guilt and toward a false charge.

As far as Rita goes, I've seen her make other mistakes in the Holloway case and have found that for stories I follow closely the media often make mistakes about details...

[Florida Patty]

Okay folks XXX and I were simply going back and forth on information. I found the Smoking Gun had posted affidavits on their site and we started going from there.

Can we not talk about Joran...move that conversation to its proper forum please.

XXX I found the statement about her injuries as stated by detectives on the affidavits.

interesting....the part about everyone calling the one guy "Dan".

According to a neighbor’s testimony, the alleged victim arrived at the players' house around 11:50 p.m.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/18/national/main1505532.shtml

Reade S. could pass for my son! Amazing.

[Gary Maxwell]

OK this is pretty preosterous in my opinion. I will conceed that the Nurses at the Duke hospital conclude that she had vaginal and anal trauma. Note this was around 2:30 am. Sexual activity could have occurred before or after her dancing episode. DA told us that DNA would prove who did this. Then ignors the evidence, which is that no DNA evidence supports the claim, at this point.

As someone posted above, the Police told the judge in order to get a search warrant that she was assaulted by three players. At least two of the names are in fact names of players and both are senior captains who happen to live in the off campus Duke owned apartment where the dance happened. So how does she get these names wrong? And then two sophomores with different names are arrested. And where is the third?

The other dancer does not support her claim in most respects. Plus the other dancer made a call to 911 to report "racial taunting". You would think that if that a rape had occurred that that would be a concerm much further down her list, NO? And she lied on the call.

Security guard at Krogers does not support rape allegation.

So where does the GHB stuff come from? Either there is a blood test to confirm that or its BS. The best I can tell is it is speculation by some folks who desperately want some white boys to be guilty OF ALMOST ANYTHING.

[jkatl]

I'm interested in how they booked her ? through an agency ? what did they said when they were booking her ? According what I read was that she thought she was going to strip for a bachelor party. I think when she found out it wasn't she should have left.

Mylena, I have also thought about this, and if you use an agency you have to specify you want black strippers, an agency is not going to send two black strippers unless you spcify that's what you want. I posted on this before I think the lacrosse players ordered black strippers not for an erotic dance but they wanted black strippers so they could demean, denigrate, insult and abuse them. As evidenced by the Mcfadden email, and over heard racial slurs by both a neighbor and the other dancer, some of those lacrosse players have some serious anger and racial hatred. Not to mention the broom stick quote at the party.

[mylena]

@xxx what do you mean she made up a story because she was afraid to be arrested? I don't understand, where was she going to be arrested for?

[Gary Maxwell]

I don't think Rita Cosby makes things up out of thin air

Well since she is on MSNBC with Dan Abrams, dont crawl out too far out on that limb. She reads stuff put in front of her. And MSNBC does not have the best track record on other stories.

[jkatl]

So where does the GHB stuff come from? Either there is a blood test to confirm that or its BS. The best I can tell is it is speculation by some folks who desperately want some white boys to be guilty OF ALMOST ANYTHING.

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 12:44 PM

See NBC17.com link in this thread posted at 11:03 A.M

We have not heard about blood test results yet, we may hear something today from the DA, I'm sure blood test were taken, however DA also may not want to reveal all his evidence until the trial. Why give the defense heads up on everything.

[mylena]

for jkat, yes I read that and I agree with you. You have to specify your wishes... it would be indeed interesting why they specifically wanted a black stripper ?

also i'm interested why if so they lied about what sort of party was going on. Did they call other agencies and were they turned down ? so thats why they came up with a bachelor party story ?

[Sgt. York]

FUZZY TIMELINE

Interesting how the search warrant compresses time and doesn't mention the cop responding to the call of the drunk women, putting her in the back of his patrol car, and bringing her down to the drunk tank.

At what point did she allege rape? After she found herself locked-up in the drunk tank? When did she go to hospital?

[xxx]

Mylena,

From what I read she didn't mention the 'rape' until she was in the police car, the officer on the scene was going to take her the station and basically put her in the drunk tank or the 24 hour hold or whatever you call it.

I think because of her previous conviction,which included intoxication she might have been scared of getting arrested again and I do believe the players were probably horrible to her, said vile and racist things, etc. so she may have thought she could get out of trouble by claiming rape, assuming nothing would happen anyway because she was a black stripper, so no harm/no foul...but it ended up getting taken seriously and now she can't back out.

Remember, the police were not called to report a rape, but the security guard called 911 to get her out of the other stripper's car....

Again there is a lot of contradictory info. I read they asked for white strippers and when the two black women arrived they were not happy about it and that is maybe where things started to go bad...but I don't know, of course this 'fact' should be easy to verify from the escort service.

As far as the racial premeditation I don't see it, frankly. Drunk people hurl slurs at whomever is around, if the strippers were white they would have called them white trash trailer sluts, and b***ches...if they were Asian or Hispanic I suspect they would have hurled the relevant racial slurs at them...

These are drunk, arrogant, spoiled bratty jocks...who most probably have no respect for women and even less respect for black women and even less respect for stripppers of any race. But that does not make them rapists, it makes them assholes...and you don't go to prison for being an asshole in American, at least not yet.

[mylena]

@xxx I'm very confused I quess i don't pay enought attention, I thought you mentioned before she went to the police station with her boyfriend.

How did she end up in the police officer's car ?

All what I'm trying to say is you need to specify your wished when you order a stripper, they don't send you just someone, so yes in this case I think you may wonder why they wanted a black stripper. The reason I'm asking about the bachelor party story is, that an agency is not sending strippers to unsafe places.

[mylena]

@xxx indeed if they didn;t want a black stripper the agency will know (usually the stripper will call in to the agency to make sure all is fine that everybody is happy and so fort).

[Gary Maxwell]

"DA also may not want to reveal all his evidence until the trial."

Really? Thats gonna be a shame then. Cuz now he must turn over all his evidence to the Defense lawyers well prior to trial including any evidence that might tend to be exculpatory. Like the security guard at the Krogers statement, and the full DNA evidence etc etc etc.

[Sgt. York]

THIS IS GARBAGE: "...and if you use an agency you have to specify you want black strippers, an agency is not going to send two black strippers unless you spcify that's what you want."

The kids likely expected to get two young sexy white girls and got two older black women (one was all bruised up and apparently drunk). Reportedly, the photos showed several guys disinterested and not even paying attention. I'm sure most of the guys there felt ripped-off. Young white college guys want to see young white girl strippers not older black women... this would have been like sending over two fat chicks. [ NOT PC - BUT THAT'S THE REALITY ]

If there were racial slurs (if) it was likely because they were angry that the agency sent them two older black women and that wasn't what they thought they had paid for. Likewise, the black strippers were probably angry that the young white boys were disinterested and contemptous of them. Good reason to be angry but not good reason to falsely accuse somebody for rape.

[xxx]

Mylena,

What I got from the reports is that she told the police officer she had been raped but did not immediately go to the hospital...but arrived at the hospital with her boyfriend.

Which in and of itself is not suspicious since women often wait to go to the hospital,want to think about things or whatever. It was on Abrams Report on 4/5 where it was said she went to the hospital w/her boyfriend, I just saw that for the first time today, I had assumed the police brought her.

The officer was called by the Kroger guard [who says no rape, but what does she know really] to get her out of the other woman's car. The cop on the scene called in that she was passed out drunk in the car, looked okay, did not need medical attention...I believe he was going to take her in for probably public drunkenness or some such charge, but I don't know that.

The defense says the first time she mentioned a rape was when she was in the back of the police car, presumably he was going to take her to the station..

There is also another potential reason, again, all this from media reports and defense statements...supposedly the women were paid $800 for two hours of 'dancing' but they only performed for a few minutes, which also outraged the guys...

The women say they quit dancing because they were afraid, the guys say the alleged victim was too intoxicated to perform...

You also might want to put in the back of your mind why the two women didn't show up with a bodyguard, which as I understand it, if all you do is strip you usually show up with a big burly guy to make sure nobody bothers you and that things DO NOT get out of hand. It has been said that dancers who arrive w/out these body guards sometimes are available for more than dancing...just something to keep in mind.

[mylena]

serg York, that is not BS, you do have 'bad' agencies i agree if you specify what you want and then you get something else, what will happen then is 1:) the stripper calls in, or one of the boys and says they are not happy and the deal is off, 2) they go along any way, The agency will and CAN tell this. (You may not know but those agencies are pretty sophisticated, they even have FILES)

@ xxx so as i understand they went away then in the car she called the police ? So she was asking for the police first? it wasnt that the police came after her? (you mentioned she was afraid to be arrested)?

[xxx]

The Kroger guard called the police, not the alleged victim.

The Kroger guard called police because the alleged victim would not, or was not able to get out of the other unnamed woman's car [alleged by the defense to be the other stripper].

When the police officer arrived on the scene, in response to the Kroger guards' call he called in and said the woman was passed out drunk.

At some point, I ASSUME she was gotten out of the woman's car and put into the police car.

This is when, the defense alleges, is the first time she mentioned being raped to anyone.

[mylena]

@xxx wait a lot has been said here, a stripper is something else than an escort. A good agency will have a driver (which should be your sort ofBG) and drives you to the place, the girl goes in makes sure all is okay, calls in, etc.

Especially when a girl is an escort there WILL be driver/bg. Remember the agency get a cut of the pie, for this protection

[mylena]

okay i quess i'm still confused, was the girl driving drunk ?

[xxx]

Mylena,

No she was not driving. She was in some other woman's car, allegedly the other stripper, and would not get out, so the Kroger guard called the police to come and get her out of the car. The Kroger guard said she appeared intoxicated and so did the police officer. DOes that clear it up?

Okay, I guess I am confusing escort with stripper...From what has been reported the women showed up separately, with no drivers or escorts of any kind.

[Steve]

Here's a link to the ABC picture where he's standing behind the police woman.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1849859

He's wearing sunglasses on top of his head just like the guy in the beach picture, but you can see that the earpiece is much thinner than the one on the sunglasses that were found with the shirt.

If the beach picture was taken during spring break and the other picture was taken after Natalee disappeared, it could wind up helping him account for his sunglasses.

I did notice that the building behind the guy in the beach picture looks like it could be a fisherman's hut. Anyone know?

[doug]

The people on this site are kind of creepy. Scary and creepy. The evidence is out yet boys.

right now they got witnesses

they got a woman who was beat up and probably wasn't when she arrived

they got evidence of GHB in her system

and lots of stuff the DA is holding close to their vest.

Even if all they find is drugging her, beating her and stealing her money. In my world those are all crimes committed.

[mylena]

But why did she had to come out of the car ? Why did the quard wanted her to do so ?

[Gary Maxwell]

Mylena

You need to pay closer attention. The girl was a passenger in the car driven by the 2nd stripper. The 2nd stripper goes to the security guard at Krogers, perhpas for help in getting the girl out of her car so she can go home. Dont forget that the call to 911 is a voice that the Defense has said they have voice analysed to be the 2nd stripper despite her claiming on the call to be an innocent passerby calling in her observation of some hateful racial taunts.

Some or any of this sound like a retaliation for a failure to pay? Some of it does to me.

[Gary Maxwell]

"drugging her, beating her and stealing her money."

funny none of those even remotely resemble the crimes charged.

And if you got a link to any evidence of GHB please post it. I am pretty sure you do not as I have seen none. It sure would be convenient though if we could assume GHB, then we could move on. In fact why dont we dispense with all this formality and just go straight to the hangin'. That is what you want isn't it?

[Sgt. York]

RE: "okay i quess i'm still confused, was the girl driving drunk ?"

1. Stripper #1 arrives at house. Stripper #2 (alleged victim) is already there. We do not know how she arrived there... perhaps taxi or boyfriend.

2. End of night, drunk stripper #2 is helped into stripper #1's car. Stripper #1 calls police via her cellphone claiming she was walking past the house and white guys started yelling racial slurs.

3. Stripper #1 drives to Kroeger. Stripper #1 tells store security that a drunk women [stripper #2] won't get out of her car. Store securty calls police about drunk women [stripper #2].

4. Police arrive and put drunk women [stripper #2] in back of patrol car. The time line gets fuzzy here, reports are that she tells cop that she was raped while on way to drunk tank... some time passes... stripper #1 showes up at hospitol with boyfriend.

[Steve]

Ooops, ignore my above post. Wrong thread.

[xxx]

Mylena,

We don't know why they drove to the Kroger parking lot.

All we know is the alleged victim was in someone elses car and wouldn't get out. The other woman, allegedly the other stripper, most probably went to the Kroger guard for help to get the alleged victim out of the car.

The Kroger guard either couldnt' get her out or figured it was a job for the police, so she called 911.

We do not know how the alleged victim got home or what happened after she told the officer she had been gang raped until she got to the hospital, about 45 minutes later I think?

[tester]

"You also might want to put in the back of your mind why the two women didn't show up with a bodyguard, which as I understand it, if all you do is strip you usually show up with a big burly guy to make sure nobody bothers you and that things DO NOT get out of hand. It has been said that dancers who arrive w/out these body guards sometimes are available for more than dancing...just something to keep in mind."

Yeah, they're slutty and deserve it.

[mylena]

maybe i should pay closer attention, in any case, why would stripper 2 take stripper 1 in the car is she didn't want her all along? you get paid upfront (not afterwards).

Could it just have been they drove to the guard (at least that was my understanding) to ask for help for what just had happened ?

[Sgt. York]

tester,
Nobody is saying anybody "deserved it".

Nobody is condoning racial slurs or rape but the reality is that it appears that this woman FABRICATED THE STORY because she was angy at a bunch of bratty white kids... or didn't want to got to the drunk tank.

[xxx]

That is not what I said, but if I was going to take my clothes off at private parties attended by drunk college guys, no matter how many of them I expected to be there I would most surely show up with a bodyguard.

I am sure the defense will do a thorough investigation of both of these women and if they were doing more than stripping it will all come out.

[mylena]

sgt York as long as she wasnt driving drunk i don't see why she needed to go the drunk tank

[xxx]

Could it just have been they drove to the guard (at least that was my understanding) to ask for help for what just had happened ?
__________________________

NO.

That is not what the guard said. They didn't ask for help. The alleged victim never told the other stripper she was raped at all.

The police were called to get the alleged victim out of the car, that's it. That is what the 911 call recorded.

I know you want to believe this woman, but you have to look at what actually happened and the sequence of events...

[Sgt. York]

RE: "and if they were doing more than stripping it will all come out"

No it won't. Rape shield laws. She could have just came from making a porno flick with five guys and it wouldn't be admitted into evidence. Nothing about her sexual history including whether she was a prostitute will be addmitted.

[mylena]

well xxx it just doesnt make sense, If i was stripper 2 and i didn't want stripper 1 in my car I would never ever let her in in the first place (as i understand they really had to put her in the car).

[mylena]

also if the girls came in as as stripper and lets say it lead to other things they will have to notify the agency, the price will get more expensive and the agency will get more money also...

[tester]

Baloney, you are performing character assasination by implying they are prostitutes.

[Sgt. York]

RE: "sgt York as long as she wasnt driving drunk i don't see why she needed to go the drunk tank"

If a person is so intoxicated that they are unable to properly take care of themselves they are often taken to the "drunk tank" to sober up. The patrolman likely assessed that she would be a continuing problem to others or herself if allowed to simply wander off.