Duke LaCrosse Players Arrested

Two Duke LaCrosse players have been arrested.

The two men, who attorneys say are sophomore Reade Seligmann and sophomore Collin Finnerty, surrendered to authorities at the Durham County Magistrate’s Office at about 4:55 a.m.”

Also, Dilby has posted information on the accuser on line. I won't link it at this time.

Durham police arrested Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, said Col. George Naylor of the Durham County jail. The arrests come little more than a month after a stripper told police she was raped at a party thrown by the team.

Naylor said the players' bond was set at $400,000. If they are unable to post bond, the players will make a first court appearance Tuesday. Seligmann, is 6-foot-1 sophomore from Essex Fells, N.J. Finnerty is a 6-foot-3 sophomore from Garden City, N.Y.

And in the Holloway case, apparently a Dutch newspaper has an image up of the man currently being detained pictured with his sister.

Comments

[ChinbeardXIV]

I'm almost ashamed to be a North Carolinian these days, with such obviously political jockeying as in this case. In an alleged rape case, one would think that DNA evidence (or lack thereof) would be a very high issue--not one to be brushed off like lingering lint on a dark suit. With all of the info known to the public, this case should just be dropped. Time-stamped photos showing this stripper was already injured (by her pimp, possibly?) plus the lack of DNA evidence should be enough to send ol' Jesse Jackson and his posse packing. Not in an election year, though, huh? Damn.

[xxx]

I really dont' think the lack of DNA, in and of itself is a case killer, a lot of times men wear condoms and DNA isn't present.

But in THIS PARTICULAR case since the DA originally touted the DNA as a way to narrow the field and 'prove' who the rapists were it seems fairly clear that the woman never said the alleged rapists were wearing condoms, which is the first of many flaws in her story.

It is possible she said she didn't know, but if that is what she said then why would the DA have been demanding DNA from 46 people and saying it was going to show who was innocent and who was guilty?

The two really critical pieces of evidence that make me believe this woman is lying are the time stamped photos...this is proof positive that many if not all the injuries the doctor/nurse assumed came as a result of the rape were already present when she arrived at the house.

The second is the 'coincidental' call from some other poor black woman that these guys were yelling racial epithets at her was really, it appears, from the other stripper, who couldnt' even keep her story straight in the 911 call, contradicting herself by saying both that she was walking and riding by the house in a car.

If you add in the fact that it appears that every person who saw her that night said she was intoxicated on SOMETHING..the other stripper, the security guard, the students and the cop, that doesn't add up to rape.

And you can forget about her being given a date rape drug...as the DA so disgustingly alluded to...if they had given her a date rape drug she would have passed out and not been able to scratch and claw these guys and the timing is off for a date rape drug, in my opinion, and if you gave her a drug to knock her out why didn't you wait for it to take effect and then bring her to a bedroom??

The whole thing is ridiculous, the ONLY way this case is going to end in a guilty verdict is from a racist jury that convicts the boys becasue they are white and go to Duke and she is black.

I guarantee you if it had been a white stripper and black football or basketball players they would all still be playing and the woman would have been charged with making a false complaint.

It is this kind of double standard that actually PERPETUATES racism in this country. The only way to end racism is for everyone to be treated equally, a knee jerk/white/liberal guilt reaction to situations like this helps no one.

Just like the poor white college student in New York who was robbed, beaten and chased into the street by a gang of black thugs yelling 'get whitey' who then laughed as he was hit by a car and died is NOT A HATE CRIME....

I hope Durham comes to its senses before a grave injustice is done.

[Florida Patty]

Time-stamped photos showing this stripper was already injured (by her pimp, possibly?)

>>still haven't seen them, heard about them but still haven't seen them. Funny it took three weeks for them to turn up.

plus the lack of DNA evidence

>>one round of DNA testing came back with no link, we have not seen the second series of test results.
I thought this link would be enlightening as well as educating on mitochondrial DNA, where it is found, how science uses it for investigative and research purposes:http://www.dnatestingcentre.com/Mitochondrial.htm
These markers occur in males and females and are inherited through the maternal line. Forensic Casework Analyze sample materials that are not suitable for nuclear DNA
Test hair strands without the root
Test highly degraded tissue
Test skeletal remains
...........

should be enough to send ol' Jesse Jackson and his posse packing.

>>these people go wherever the spotlight is. I did, however, find it interesting that the Rainbow/Push groups will be picking up her tuition so she never has to work a job like that again.

Hard to refute science, let's just see where this case goes.

[xxx]

Florida,

The DA REFUSED to look at the photos, according to the defense team.

These photos were shown to at least two reporters who verified that they appear to show exactly what the defense has said they do.

My guess is they went public with the photos because the DA and police refused to take them into consideration.

Imagine how bad the rush to judgement would be if they had kept silent about them and their existance wasn't known at this point?

[Florida Patty]

XXX you will not get an argument from me on the perpetuation of racism by the press and these so-called help groups. I'm still with Morgan Freeman who doesn't want a Black History month because "you're relagating my history to a month" and "is there a white history month?"...spot on Morgan.

Hate crimes make no sense to me and why do we have to call them HATE crimes? as if a crime against a human being isn't hate in and of itself.

It's unfortunate that we have what is more of a wall of difference in society that has more to do with status and money and less to do with race.

If an upper middle class black family in a well to do neighborhood were victims of a crime by a black individual would they call that a "like" crime? Think about it.

[xxx]

I also think the 'hate crime' statutes are stupid, if you want to use it as a mitigating or aggravating factor at the sentencing that is fine, but to make it a separate "crime" in and of itself seems silly.

Hate is not a crime. Rape, murder, robbery, assault, kidnapping are crimes.

If I kill you because you are gay/black/white you are just as dead, regardless of my motivation.

But since we DO have hate crime statutes the least we can do is apply them equally and fairly.

[cj]

there are reports everywhere that they found the date rape drug GHB in the woman's system that night. You think she self-ingested it?

[xxx]

I have NEVER seen a single link that they found GHB in her system, if that was true it would be headline news.

I've you've seen such a report please post a link.

[jkatl]

NBC already trying to confirm a report that one of the two indicted lacrosse players was not even at the party. How convenient. It's been reported by several outlets that have seen the photos of the accuser prior to the incident that you can NOT see obvious bruising. The other stripper also does not recall any bruises previous to the incident. Also the other dancer thinks the accuser was drugged with something b/c she observed her behavior change dramatically during their time at the house. The accuser had to be carried to the car, the dancers were only there about 40 miutes in total, thats too short a time to pass out from alcohol, that's more consistent with GHB. The accuser also left the party w/o her purse with $400 in it, w/o her cell phone, with only one shoe on, and incoherent, that is also consistent with GHB. When the two dancers were at the Kroger the accuser was passed out and had a death grip on the car's gearshift knob and the security gaurd while thinking she was passed out on alcohol actually reported that she did not smell of alcohol, again completely consistent with GHB. The Duke Univ hosp trauma nurse reported substantial vaginal tearing and anal trauma and bruises on her neck consistent with the accuser having been choked. The nurse reported the accusers demeanor and mental state were consistent with having been raped. Other than the first day and a half when D.A. Nifong gave out interviews we have only heard from the defense for the last 4 weeks. Today we may finally hear from the D.A and there IS additional evidence that has not yet been released to the public. Let's not forget 2 Lacrosse players were indicted by a grand jury. For a DA to present a case to a grand jury for indictment he has to believe there is enough evidence for a conviction at trial, to do otherwise is unethical. Lastly $400,000 is a hefty bond amount. For those who think this is just politics and the DA is just trying to get elected read the article on MSNBC.com titled - Prosecuter In Limelight In Duke Rape Case. A defense attorney who says he has worked with Nifong on about a thousand cases says "Nifong is a level playing field, with Mike you always get a square deal". Incidently Colin Finnerty, one of the two indicted lacrosse players was just in court in November on an assault charge having punched an alleged homosexual in the mouth. I don't know if these two indicted "boys" will be convicted, sadly with their wealth and status probably not, but in my mind I have absolutely no doubt that they seually assaulted this 27 year old mother of two. The defense in this case would definitely strike me from the jury. Just look at Finnerty's head shot that they're running on MSNBC that's an evil dude.

[xxx]

You don't advance the woman's case by making stuff up. The reporters who saw the photos say the woman had bruises when she arrived. Period. The ABC report absolutely confirms what the defense said, with the exception they say you can't really tell if she is smiling on the back porch or not.

The photos also show she had only one shoe when she was 'dancing' so again, that is pure b.s. that she left her shoe there to get away from these guys.

The Durham grand jury has indicted 99% of cases brought before it, so that is really not a ringing endorsement of the quality of the district attorney's evidence in this case.

I would say her behavior is consistent with her locking herself in the bathroom and taking some kind of drug while at the house, not with being dosed with GHB, which would cause her to pass out, thus obviating the need for the alleged perps to strangle her in order to control her.

[Florida Patty]

Yes XXX equally and fairly. I still think for argument's sake it has more to do with money and status than equality.

Daryl Strawberry use to slide under the radar for all kinds of offenses, get a wrist slap until he started looking like the rogue son at a family reunion. But these days he is wearing a different kind of uniform and his glory days are only a shadow of his present self. He's also broke.

I'm eager to see how this case unfolds. The pictures, if they are authentic, will appear and some point. The digital date and photo manipulation can easily be done by even the novice photographer who has PhotoShop or Picassa or any other number of programs.

Truth, more than anything I am hopeful for truth.

[Florida Patty]

XXX any idea how she bruised her anus?
.........................................

HEADSUP!
Okay I followed a hunch and got a hit. XXX this is the affidavit for the search warrant. It names three boys: Matt, Bret and Adam.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke4.html

[mylena]

I want to comment on Chinbeard! you have very oldfashion ideas on strippers. Nowadays strippers don't need a pimp, they often are collegestudents and want to make extra money.

In my opinion if those pictures were real evidence it would have been taken that way, but timestamped pictures aren't ofcourse REAL evidence (it dependns what time your camera says it is) and also it can be bogus....

[xxx]

Funny, the names of the three boys DO NOT match the names of the two who were arrested....but I guess they were so smart they used fake names and condoms but forgot to throw out her fake nails when they cleansed the room of all DNA or blood.

I think someone beat her up before she arrived at the party, and maybe raped her as well.

Though I don't see where this affidavit mentions specifically any genital trauma or tearing.

[Florida Patty]

Items retrieved during the search:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke5.html

I'm thinking fluids would be on the green mat in the bathroom and that white floor towel.

30 items seized. (check out the KY jelly bottle)
a photograph, digital cameras, pills, paper towel in a plastic bag (wet), ... should be something in that list that could have traced back to the two or three in order for the Grand Jury to hand down and indictment.

[Florida Patty]

I was just going to check those names XXX thanks for double checking that. Okay, so where is the connection with the two boys who are in custody now?

[xxx]

It was reported the guy who called the strippers did use a fake name, so it is plausible they were using fake names, but, come on, a bunch of drunk guys who hired some strippers and then go out of control and rape them have the presence of mind to use fake names during the rape? Is that really realistic? THe kid probably used a fake name to hire them because he didn't want it to get back to the university since the team was already having problems with bad behavior.

I do not see ANYWHERE that this document mentions any genital tearing, nor do the reports about the rape exam specifically mention genital tearing, they mention signs, symptoms and injury consistent with sexual assault which could be the other bruises that she already had on her.

SOrry, I believe this woman lied to get out of being arrested.

[Florida Patty]

Dan Flannery is one of the Captains of the team. He is the one who was served with the search warrant (see second page)
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke6.html

his name:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25937&SPID=2027&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=208524

[jkatl]

xxx, you are way too hung up on these pics and you haven't even seen them. Dan Abrams saw the pics and he said they are inconclusive. A guest on Scarborough last night said he doesn't think the pictures will help the defense at all, if they were helpful to the defense they would have made sure they were released to the public. Also how the hell are pics going to show bruising around her vaginal area which the trauma nurse said was severe. I am not making anything up, the stuff in my posts were from Nifong's interviews of which I saw several and read several reports of his initial interviews. You have bought into the various defense spin over the last four weeks hook line and sinker which is what they want you to do, it's why they have been on the shows everyday for the past 4 weeks. You don't even know what evidence the DA has yet your convinced a rape did not happen, based on pics you haven't even seen????? My bet is you came in on this case after Nifong had already stopped his interviews, you sound like a mouthpiece for the defense when in actuality you are clueless.

[Florida Patty]

According to this:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25937&SPID=2027&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=208524

there is a Bret and Matt who are Captains of the team. (doesn't mean it was them or that there aren't other folks named Bret or Matt on the team) trying to find a roster now.

This is her account to the police (and XXX this is cause for the search warrant, it doesn't contain the medical report. It also looks like no one was home at 4 AM) how odd. 40 plus people at a party at 1:30 and by 4 everyone is gone? Strange.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke4.html

[xxx]

Isn't that because he lived in the house where the alleged rape took place?

I commend you for trying so hard to fit the facts into a story that supports the victim....I always believe rape victims unless there is a reason not to, and I see multiple reasons not to believe this woman...

This crime doesn't fit the profile of a typical college gang rape, the level of violence she describes is VERY RARE in any rape, even stranger rapes. But her story of heroically resisting a very, very violent rape is consistent with most actual false claims...the false claims conform to society's rape mythology...strangers, violence, physicial resistance...not to the reality of how rape really happens which is that women usually don't get hit, don't resist and don't get injured.

Her story does not add up. Unless the DA has some other bombshell information, based on what we know I can't see enough evidence for a conviction, and not really even enough evidence to charge them.

What's going to happen if it turns out this woman has more baggage from her past?

[xxx]

PS,

There is NO WAY the defense would release photos of an alleged rape victim to the media. You have got to be kidding me. Especially if she is wearing, as has been reported, basically a see through outfit???!!!

[xxx]

Does this really sound like the defense is making it up about the photos????
_______________________________

Meanwhile, several defense attorneys on Friday allowed The Herald-Sun
to view --but not copy or take pictures of -- time-stamped photographs
they say an unidentified student took during and immediately after the
alleged rape victim danced at the 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. party the night
of March 13-14.

According to the defense attorneys, the photos discredit the dancer's
claim that her audience grew rowdy and aggressive with her. They also
disprove the woman's timeline of events, lawyers believe.

Here is what the pictures show and the time:

11:02 p.m.: Students are hanging out in a living room, apparently
waiting for the dancer to arrive. Most have drinking cups in their
hands.

Midnight: The dancer is sprawled on her stomach on the floor, as a
second dancer stands over her. Students are watching the show but not
grabbing or attempting to touch the women. Bruises are clearly visible
on the legs and thighs of the alleged victim.

12:01:16: The second dancer is lying on her back on the floor with the
alleged rape victim kneeling over her.

12:03:57: The dancers are leaving the room after performing for four
minutes. The photo clearly shows that the alleged victim left one of
her shoes behind as she departed.

12:10:39: One of the Duke students apparently is passed out on the
floor, his head leaning against a sofa, a crushed beer can at his side.

12:30:12: The alleged victim is on the back porch. She has a shoe only
on her left foot as she appears to smile and apparently tries to get
back inside.

Although the precise time of the alleged rape apparently has not been
established, defense lawyers contend it was before this photo was made.

12:31:26: The alleged victim appears to be stumbling down the back
steps of the house.

12:37:58: A series of photos beginning at this time shows the woman
lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or
asleep. Pink splotches are on a wrought-iron railing beside her.

Defense lawyers believe the splotches were from undried nail polish the
woman applied in a bathroom between 12:10 and 12:30 a.m., during which
no time-stamped photos were taken. So, the defense lawyers say, that
indicates she was manicuring her nails at the only time a rape could
have occurred in the house.

Defense lawyers say the alleged victim was helped to the second
dancer's car. The second dancer then got into a conversation with the
lacrosse players, which included hurling racial insults about their
manhood, the players told their lawyers.

12:41: The alleged victim is being helped into the car.

12:53: 911 dispatchers get a call about racial slurs being made to two
women in the vicinity of the house party.

1:22: Police respond to a 911 call at the Kroger supermarket on
Hillsborough Road. According to a communications tape released
Thursday, an officer encountered the alleged rape victim there and
described her as being "passed out drunk." But the officer said the
woman was not in distress and didn't appear to need medical attention.

A police dispatch log then indicates that the dancer showed up at the
Duke emergency room at 2:31 a.m. and entered Duke Hospital at 2:45 a.m.

Thomas said the second dancer described her as being highly
intoxicated. In addition, the woman never complained about being raped
as the two dancers drove away from North Buchanan Boulevard, Thomas
quoted the co-dancer as saying.

Reply

[jkatl]

I think someone beat her up before she arrived at the party, and maybe raped her as well.

xxx, Okay now I know you are clueless, after being beat up and raped someone is going to go and dance at a party, son you need to give your pipe a rest.

[xxx]

Then how did she get the bruises? Either someone beat her up or she was already falling down drunk or high and she fell down and got the bruises herself??????

You are not looking at the evidence here.

[cj]

http://www.nbc17.com/news/8694922/detail.html

[jkatl]

The other dancer says the accuser had no bruises on her before going into the house. The picture where she allegedly fell at the top of the stairs with one shoe on that allegedly shows some bruising was after she claims the rape occurred. I am looking at the evidence. Everything you have cited has come from the defense, everything.

[xxx]

Midnight: The dancer is sprawled on her stomach on the floor, as a
second dancer stands over her. Students are watching the show but not
grabbing or attempting to touch the women. Bruises are clearly visible
on the legs and thighs of the alleged victim.

-----------------------------------

BRUISES ARE CLEARLY VISIBLE ON THE LEGS AND THIGHS OF THE ALLEGED VICTIM AT MIDNIGHT.

You cannot get around this. You may choose to believe a bunch of dumb jocks are able to doctor up those photos but a reasonable person is not going to believe that.

[jkatl]

She collapsed at the top of the stairs and had to be carried to her car because she was likely drugged. Look at the timeline you just posted yourself at 12:03 the accuser is upright and walking at 12:31 she can't even stand. At 12:41 she has to be carried to the car. The second dancer said when the accuser arrived at the house she was completely sober and coherent and doesn't remeber any bruising. She goes from sober and coherent to completely passed out in roughly 30 - 35 minutes. I don't know of too many drugs including alcohol that work that fast other than GHB.

[mylena]

who are you relying on xxx? There are bruises and bruises. I have right now bruises on my legs, not from being but bouncing against a table or something.

If there around her bottom are bruises & teared issue, I would say this girls is raped !!!

[jkatl]

BRUISES ARE CLEARLY VISIBLE ON THE LEGS AND THIGHS OF THE ALLEGED VICTIM AT MIDNIGHT.

Once again from the defense, a description of pics you have not seen. It is the defense lawyers job to come up with anything and everything that casts doubt on this woman's claim, do you not get that??????.

[xxx]

1. If someone can post a report that specifically mentions genital injury, please do so. I have not seen one.

2. GHB causes memory loss and usually causes you to completely pass out for SEVERAL HOURS....her story is NOT consistent with GHB since as far as we know she doesn't have any memory loss, never reported being given a drink..it is certainly not in the probable cause affidavit...and she didn't pass out until she had left the part. However, the truth should come out in the medical report, unless of course she got a special pass for being a minority and they didn't conduct the usual test for alcohol and drugs that are done in rape cases. GHB would definitely show up. If she had GHB in her system and reported that she was given a drink at the party then I will change my mind and give her the benefit of the doubt.

[tester]

Sounds like a Leaving Las Vegas do over.

[jkatl]

Per Rita Cosby on MSNBC 2 minutes ago-- the rape nurse's own words- " Severe vaginal trauma, Severe rape" Two indictments!!

[tester]

Good thing this was just some no good trash stripper and not one of our fairy white duke princesses.

I bet one of these guys becomes president.

[mylena]

There is no way around it: if the girl has bruises and severe trauma, she GOT RAPED. The next question should be who ?

The two boys got indicted, that is not based because of talk. (If so the police is doing a VERY bad job)

[xxx]

I am 99% sure that no rape trauma nurse said "severe rape" since they are trained NOT to make conclusions about the victim's claim...just report whatever injuries there were and what the woman's demeanor was.

I am still waiting for a link to any report that mentions genital trauma....Rita Cosby is not the most credible reporter and 'injuries consistent with sexual assault' could easily turn into 'vaginal trauma' when dealing with a lazy reporter.

If it is true she had bonafide sexual injuries, then I am willing to take a wait and see attitude about the rest of the DA's case.

[Mylena]

@xxx i agree we will see about the sexual injuries

But you see so should you take the pictures ?!

[jkatl]

Nifong definitely stated in one of his first interviews that the accuser had been given a drink. GHB does not cause memory loss in every instance and usually not at all until the drug completely kicks in. GHB effects everyone differently. First time users almost always pass out from it at some point, usually within 15 to 20 minutes give or take a few minutes, depending on how much they put in her drink.

[tester]

Seligmann, a 6-foot-1 sophomore, lives in a well-landscaped neighborhood about 17 miles west of New York City. His home is within 1.5 miles of three golf clubs.

A message left at the Seligmann home was not returned Tuesday. There was no answer at the two-story red brick home, which has two white columns.

[xxx]

No, you are WRONG AGAIN.

He did not say definitely that she was given a drink, he said being intoxicated could be evidence she was drugged had she hypothetically been given a drink.

I am done talking to you about this case since obviously you are twisting the known facts and hugely elaborating on them.

NOWHERE did he ever say she was definitely given a drink. I dare you to post a link that backs that up.

[tester]

Upon leaving jail, Seligmann ran with another man to a Ford Explorer with New Jersey license plates, The (Raleigh) News & Observer reported. The vehicle then ran a red light, according to the paper.

[tester]

In November, Finnerty was arrested on assault charges in Washington, according to the paper. Citing his attorney, the paper said Finnerty had been ordered to perform community service and the charges would be dropped if he performs the service and avoids new arrests.

[jkatl]

Nifong interviewed live by Dan Abrams in front of the Durham courthouse stated to Dan the rape nurse reported SEVERE vaginal trauma consistent with a severe rape. Check the transcript, the show was around april 2

[tester]

Yeah, I'm sure one of them will be president.

[Mylena]

Just to mention about drugs... my husband had to go for a minor operation, they gave him a pill (i forgot what it was), after that he as doing reasonable normal, he was slower in his reaction and sort of funny, but he could do all his things. He fell later in sleep, and when he woke up he couldn't remember a thing (just flashes). So ...

[jkatl]

Nifong said in one interview that the accuser told the police that she had been given a drink. That is a fact.

[xxx]

YOU ARE FULL OF IT.

FIND ME A LINK THEN IF IT IS A FACT.

Here is what the DA said on Abrams:

There is evidence of trauma in the victim‘s vaginal area that was noted when she was examined by a nurse at the hospital and her general demeanor was suggestive of the fact that she had been through a traumatic situation.
--------------------------

But the same show says she was brought to the hospital by HER BOYFRIEND not by the police....

[jkatl]

From above link to NBC17.com

DURHAM, N.C. -- An unnamed source close to the investigation of a reported rape near the Duke University campus has told NBC 17 News that someone might have drugged the accuser the night she claims three lacrosse members raped her.

"She may have been slipped a date-rape drug in a mixed drink she was given by one of the lacrosse players shortly after she arrived,” the source told NBC 17 late Friday.

[Florida Patty]

Her nail polish was "reddish color"
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke1.html

Officers called to the Krogers at 1:22 AM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke4.html

This is a summary of her account of what happened as used for cause for the search warrant on the house.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke4.html

They have a confidential source who is providing information (the email) Ryan McFadyen was the player who sent the email:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke1.html

Who is "Arch" and "Tack"? Nicknames for which players? re: check the email, it seems Ryan assumes they will be there anyway for the event where he will cum all over his Duke issued spandex. (see above email on link)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke5.html