Natalee Holloway - Partial FBI Transcripts

A site uploaded screen captures from Fox News which showed portions alleged to be the FBI transcripts of the interrogations of two girls - Katherine Madison Whatley and Lee Broughton. Using magnification, I've tried to translate as much of the documents as possible.

There are a few interesting items. Among them, one description at least seems to match Steve Croes. And Natalee's shot of 151 that last night was, unfortunately, far from her first.

Whatley:

On Sunday night Whatley advised a group of friends ate dinner. Holloway had a couple of alcoholic drinks at dinner. Holloway was drinking Red Fires which had 151 in them. Although she had a couple of drinks at dinner Holloway "was not out of her mind."

While at dinner Holloway was making a bet with who Holloway "would hook up with" Sunday night. Whatley advised she did not actually make a bet was just talking amongst other girls.

Whatley thought that Holloway would hook up with Kevin Broday because Holloway was flirting with him.

After dinner, Whatley went to the (?) casino with Holloway. Broughton, Merrill, McViegh, amd (?????)   McViegh had lost money at the casino during the trip and they went to the casino to help McViegh win (some??) money .........  They sat at a blackjack table. Holloway was not playing blackjack but was hovering from student to student. Whatley ................. at the blackjack table while they were playing.

Broughton:

Broughton and Holloway were assigned the same hotel room at the Holiday Inn. The daily routine for Broughton and Holloway was to get an alcohol drink and go to the ocean around 10:00 AM in the morning. At around 5:00 PM they would return to thier room for naps. At 6:00PM Broughton and Holloway would get ready to go out to get dinner. After dinner Broughton and Holloway would go outto Bars. Saturday, May 28, 2005, Holloway became very intoxicated and eventually had to be escorted back to her room by (Kevin Broday?).

During the morning hours on Sunday, May 29, 2005 Holloway started drinking mixed drinks called " Red Fires" The drinks contain Bicardi 151 and Diet Coke. Holloway became intoxicated and her friends told her to slow down. Holloway and Broughton continued to drink throughout the day. They went to dinner between 6:00 and 7:00 PM. After dinner Holloway and Broughton went to the Hotel Casino to watch Ruth McVay gamble/

While at the casino, Broughton and Holloway (came upon?) Joran (Last name unknown) Holloway had met Joran earlier that day on the beach. At about (xxxPM)  Holloway  (switched to?) a drink containing Vodka.
While sitting in the Casino a friend of Joran(LNU) arrived. Broughton (does not?) know the friend's name.xxxxxxxxx remember him to be fat and Chinese or Hawaiian looking.

At approximately (xxxxxPM) Holloway, Broughton, xxx and others? went to the hotel by the pool. Approximately five minutes later when Joran LNU was leaving Holloway asked if Joran LNU was planning to meet them later at Carlos and Charlies. (He said it was really dead on Sunday nights???)

Comments

[Arubaanse]

Ofcourse we got angry at her!...This is the woman that we have accepted as one of our own...we have received her with arms wide open and this same woman said to us that she will never call for a boycott because she is thankfull for everything we have done for her...well, not only did she called for a boycott but she said that she feared for her life when she was here in Aruba.

[XXX]

Since this information is coming from the MB students, I fail to see how they have hindered the case by not telling the truth?

This is their truth: Natalee was drinking heavily during the vacation to the point of not being able to handle it...this is coming from MB, from her friends, so, please explain how this "cover up" has worked?

How did they hinder the case exactly? And what does Natalee's drinking during the vacation have to do with what happened to her in the company of Joran and K2?

[wreck]

I sincerely thought in the beginning that ALE was a little over-whelmed with a murder/kidnapping/missing-person investigation. I felt they let "pride" prevent them from letting a more experienced American FBI team be more actively involved. After 10 months -- I have to conclude that it goes WAY beyond "pride."
I think that ALE took an overly-protective view of their own Dutch citizens. I think that Paulus' connections to the judicial system and being friends with Van Der Stratten also had a influence on how this case was investigated/handled.
I also think the family was genuinely and rightfully indignant on how this case was handled. The family was not merely blaming Aruba because the "crime" happened there -- it could have happened anywhere. They were only upset that they were mis-lead, lied-to, and essentially ignored by both ALE and the Prosecution.
When the boycott was called for -- it was the last straw. ALE was going to do their utmost to get back at the Holloway/Twittys. I don't think Aruba ever fathomed that this case would STILL be in the public eye after all this time. There is simply no way to exit this case gracefully anymore.
I don't think any rational person can honestly say that the last 3 months have been competent, earnest attempt to find the truth. You just cannot explain why such a "credible tip" on where the body is has taken 3 months for an actual search.
The Aruban posters here (for the vast majority) have been very congenial and honest in their opinions. I respect that, and can only feel pity that they have to suffer the consequences of what a few people in authority have wrought upon them.
I have said all along that I do not support a "boycott." However, I do understand what caused the family to call for one.

[Annette Davis]

Dear Greta,
I just cannot imagine why the FBI hasn't gotten some kind of warrant to search the well behind the Van der Sloots property. Juron and his father could have easily thrown her in that well. When this nightmare first happened, I remember the well being mentioned but the Van der Sloots would not allow the authorities to search their property. This throws up all kinds of red flags. If they don't have anything to hide ie Natalee, they should be more than happy to let this well be investigated. I will always believe that Natalee is in that well! They are probably laughing under their breath when they see all the futile searches. I would think they could fly a helicopter over with some kind of infra ray to see if there is a body in that well. Surely the Vander Sloots have no authority over the skys over their property. This really disturbs me.

Thank You
Sincerely
Annette Davis

[Arubaanse]

Well annette they have already done that. That was one of the reasons why the F-16 flew over there.

[Arubaanse]

You know alot of you still believe that Paul has some influence here in Aruba. I am telling you my family has more influence then the entire VDS family combined and I am not kidding!

[Jon]

And it's true..they are not killers. They have never killed anyone before this happened...but Dompig never ruled it out that they might have killed Natalee.

Posted by: Arubaanse

ARE not killers is present tense, so would include Natalee. And he also said he did not believe Natalee was murdered.

[XXX]

It isn't about protecting the van der sloots, it is about protecting Aruba and tourism and refusing to admit any problems w/the investigation.

[*flo*]

Posted by: harold | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 10:56 AM

Exactly and realizing the initial phase of this investigation, the mention individuals should be relieved from their duties and FORCE to disclose information. Former commissioner Vanderstratten should be jailed for coverup, since he told the world 'He Knows what happen.' The circumstances surrounding Natalee's investigation is deep rooted within Aruban's hierarchy, therefore, any Aruban or person which knows something should come forward and speakup, clearing the way to locate Natalee's body, clearing the way to have a better Aruba.

GUARANTEE YOU ANONYMITY
The tip can be done @ the FBI website or to Natalee's dad, Dave @,
helpfindnatalee@comcast.net

Don't know if Beth's lawyer set up a email for tips, if I findout will post it here.

[Arubaanse]

I have said all along that I do not support a "boycott." However, I do understand what caused the family to call for one.

Posted by: wreck | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 11:28 AM

Hi wreck, how are you??
Yes..that is true. I do understand what caused the family to call for one but she knows that we are the ones who is going to suffer not the Gov. or the Ale or whoever she wants to punish.

[Arubaanse]

ARE not killers is present tense, so would include Natalee. And he also said he did not believe Natalee was murdered.

Posted by: Jon | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 11:36 AM

Yes, I understand but we don't have any proof that they are the real killers, it could that someone else killed Natalee. Don't get me wrong...I don't believe Joran either but I can not judge him nor anybody..but what I am trying to say is that we don't have any evidence other then Joran's lies that he did killed Natalee. So far they are not killers until proven..

[sk]

Doesn't mean a thing......she was seen with a bottle of water at the casino...it's on tape. She also didn't seem to smashed, she was still standing upright dancing late at night at C&Cs.

Dan you make me want to puke in your face.

[Siny]

Yesterday police took Deepak's car into possession again,. it was in Diario today.

[Chuck Dunleavy]

sk - we would know what happened if those MB teens would just tell the truth, there have been so many different stories, interviews, silence, etc who knows what really happened. They are trying to protect themselves and their reps and it's hurting the investigation.

Whose the jealous psuedo-boyfriend Kevin Broday, why haven't we heard about him before? You don't think it's relavent that this teen and Natalee were to be an item and then came Joran who swept her off her feet? Seems odd.

[Jon]

Yes, I understand but we don't have any proof that they are the real killers, it could that someone else killed Natalee. Don't get me wrong...I don't believe Joran either but I can not judge him nor anybody..but what I am trying to say is that we don't have any evidence other then Joran's lies that he did killed Natalee. So far they are not killers until proven..

Posted by: Arubaanse

It's one thing for the chief investigator to say "we don't have proof they are kiilers".. it's another for him say "they are not kiilers", and express a belief that the victim died accidentally, based on absolutely no evidence.

[Florida Patty]

If I end up being wrong about this, I owe the island a full on vacation with me and my spouse. But I still contend that if they were not involved, there is no reason to lie.

*and we're not talking no "little white lie" here but thousands of man hours and countless expense.
And the drop in tourism is having an after effect of it all*

[TJ]

Why was one of the Twitty brothers lawyered up at once? Why tried the Twitties to get a death certificate early on? To get insurance money??

[Arubaanse]

It's one thing for the chief investigator to say "we don't have proof they are kiilers".. it's another for him say "they are not kiilers", and express a belief that the victim died accidentally, based on absolutely no evidence.

Posted by: Jon | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 12:00 PM

Now that you have explained it to me like that I have to agree with you. But like I said earlier on Dompig is a jackass and I hope that I wont hear from him until he solves this case...after he solves this, I will be more than happy to hear from him but now I want him to shut the f*** up and do what he is suppose to do...

[Stella]

From what I read on the NH thread, Red Fires are a mix of Red Bull and alcohol; in Natalee's case, she was drinking it with rum:

At Brown University, researchers have studied the effects of combining energy drinks and alcohol. According to Frances Mantak, director of health education at Brown, drinkers who mix the two substances together are doing two drastically different things to their bodies. Red Bull makes people feel more awake, but vodka slows down the central nervous system.

The results, Mantak said, can be dangerous.

“The stimulant effects can mask how intoxicated you really are and prevent you from realizing how much alcohol you have consumed,” she said.

Fatigue is one of the body’s signals for when you’ve had too much to drink, but Red Bull and other energy drinks reverse this signal, allowing for more consumption.

“A person who’s been drinking Red Bull and vodka won’t have as much inhibition and will keep drinking because they are missing the signals their body is putting off,” said Dennis Miller, an assistant psychology professor at MU who has taught a course on how drugs affect behavior.

Miller added that Red Bull and other energy drinks can give users the impression they are unimpaired, which could lead to more drinking or driving under the influence.

“They may think they are alert, but their reaction time is still diminished, and their judgment is impaired,” he said.

Once the stimulant effects of the Red Bull wear off, the body is left with the depressant effects of the alcohol, which could cause respiratory depression or vomiting while unconscious.

A final danger, Mantak said, is the extreme dehydration the combination causes.

Caffeine is a diuretic, and Red Bull has two times the amount of caffeine as a can of Coke. Mix that with the dehydrating effects of alcohol, and it hinders your body’s ability to metabolize the vodka and increases its toxicity — not to mention the killer hangover it leaves the next day.

http://columbiamissourian.com/features/story.php?ID=12825

[Dan]

cashmere: Dan you actually seemed to have done more cutting and pasting than magnifying

FYI asshat, I did NO cutting and pasting. You think I would trust a message board with teh translation? That isn't how I work. I downloaded the original files and went over them all myself for from 1 - 2 hours to post what "I" saw. If it confirms what someelse saw, great, that's corroboration. Don't shoot off your fly trap here with accusations when you have no idea what you're talking about, though I gather that's probably par for the course with your type.

[Dingbat]

Well, I'm sorry to say that this blog has gone to hell in a handbasket. Arubaanse, don't even try to reason with these people, it isn't worth your time or effort. Those who live in Aruba and those of us who are fortunate enough to vacation there and call the people our friends know the reality. And we'll continue to visit and enjoy your hospitality.

[Arubaanse]

Posted by: Dingbat | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 12:28 PM

Hi Dingbat,

Well, they are not bad people...they are just fed up with our ALE and who can blame them. Ofcourse it's sad that people think of us like that..Some of them have heard my feelings but hey, they are intitle to their own opinion and I should respect that. But I know they are nice people..I don't agree with Harold all the time but I don't have any problems with him cuz I understand him and the same goes for Skye, wreck, xxx and many others. We don't always agree with eachother but we don't hate eachother either...that makes it so wonderfull.

Anyway my friend take care and see you on the happy island.

[david1017]

The Holloway-Twitty bird is crashing to earth and burning. The truth about the MB kids is emerging and contrasts sharply from the HT stance. Sure Joran lied. But who else has lied in this? Hmmm.

[goodgirl.]

what if they never went to the beach after c&c. what if her last drink contained a drug. sure she would be fine walking out of c&c. gets into car they drive to lighthouse area for time so the drug would kick in, then end up going to a 3rd partys house where everyone took turns, having there way with her. then when things went south joran called dad for help getting rid of body, dad shows up uses 3rd partys car or truck to transport body then everyones given a job to do, the brothers take joran home the father who was said to have left house to get joran never really got him but ran interferance of body dumping. the reason no one knows where the body is is due to the fact that theres several people involved, how many times do you think they could move it?
if jordan had met nh earily in the day or week he could of had a plan hatched. why would you say no c&c is dead then an hr later show up. he told her at the beach c&c was dead on sundays found out while in the casino everyone was going to c&c and showed up after his dad took him home and he called for a ride to go back out. thinking if i tell the brothers theres gonna be lots of american girls out they will go with me. i might now have dotted all the i's or crossed all the t's here but this is how i think it went down.

[Chuck Dunleavy]

Kevin Broday and Natalee were going to final seal the deal, then she gets drunk and leaves with Joran and two foreign brothers. He is shamed, instead of letting it go, he follows them to the beach and becomes enraged when he see's Joran with "his" girl. After Joran leaves Kevin confronts her and it all goes wrong.

I know what your saying, how did he move her twice, how do peole know her body was moved twice if they haven't even found her once? I'm sure there are plenty of locals digging areas up hoping to solve or get the reward. The MB teens know more than they are saying and Beth is foolishly protecting them.

[df]

david - you're a putz....this isn't new information! The MB students have been interviewed and none are under suspicion. Keep grasping for straws loser!

Dingbat, you should move to Aruba, then when one of yours goes missing and can't be found we'll see how quickly your tune changes.

If nobody can see this charade for what it is, your blind. This whole thing has been orchestrated by the Aruban government. It's no coincidence that the busiest time for Aruba is on its way that the chief comes out with the absurd and unsubstantiated ALLEGATION that Natalee drank herself to death.

[*flo*]

Well, I'm sorry to say that this blog has gone to hell in a handbasket.

Posted by: Dingbat | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 12:28 PM

I tend to disagree, considering Dan is consistent in responsible blogging with many informative real-time Topics. Elaborate on your objections would make more sense Dingbat.

BTW Dan, it would be helpful you continue to post anonymous tip lines for Natalee, anyone can email me, I will report the tip. REWARD MONEY!

[Chuck Dunleavy]

df - it's blog people can give their opinions, if you think you know what happened, then what are you doing on this board, you already know everything. People like you are the reason this case hasn't been solved, people have formed one opinion and failed to deviate from it, thus costing other leads that could produce a final resolution. They have gone down the Joran road for months and months, with FBI people and others interrogating him, it's not him, something else happened, we are hoping to figure out what that something else was.

[df]

chuck - nice try and not even close to remotely possible. Aruba's own chief of police would laugh at your ridiculous and retarded assertion. "They" know who the perps are.... Yep... Beth is protecting these kids while she's breaking down on TV because she's lost all hope?!? Get a life. The FBI interviewed this guy and there are no locals out there digging. Somehow Dompig knows she was moved. There is no possible way her classmate buried her to the point where she wouldn't be found. If that were the case there would a lot of others involved. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[Skye]

Kevin Broday and Natalee were going to final seal the deal, then she gets drunk and leaves with Joran and two foreign brothers. He is shamed, instead of letting it go, he follows them to the beach and becomes enraged when he see's Joran with "his" girl. After Joran leaves Kevin confronts her and it all goes wrong.
Posted by: Chuck Dunleavy | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 01:04 PM

What proof do you have to support that outrageous accusation? You are accusing Kevin, a person no one has mentioned in this case until the FBI reports on Greta's show were copied on screen and transferred to the internet and Kevin's name was mentioned that he escorted Natalee to her room. NOTHING else. You have no proof to support that lie you are spewing on this blog. You should be sued for slander.

[df]

The FBI didn't interview Joran you tard. You dont even know the littlest of facts. They were allowed to observe and not ask any questions. Keep drinking the Aruba Kool aid and you will have the same fortune as those in Jonestown. The FBI thinks he's a sociopath. You might want to look up what that is so you can your proverbial foot out of your mouth.

Of course, you can't explain why Joran can't keep his facts straight with every interview he does. It change constantly I guess he just likes the attention!?! LOL.

[Chuck Dunleavy]

If I should be sued then there should be a whole lot of people getting sued by ole Joran and Deepak, they have been exhonerated by the courts, but you people can't accept that, whose the fools? I think if someone was in isolation for 3 months and being questioned relentlessly and still nohing came out, then he should get the benefit of the doubt.

[df]

Once again you show your ignorance...they have NOT been EXONERATED. They are still SUSPECTS twit!

Benefit of the doubt? ARE YOU SERIOUS? LOL Benefit of the doubt....what a toolbox!

It's been widely reported that the Kalpoes and Joran's statements don't coincide. Kalpoes attorney said they never picked Joran up and that he is lying. Why all the lies b/n the 3? Dompig stated Joran almost broke and his daddy was allowed visits during this time....That's the logical explanation as well as Joran's sociopathic tendencies as to why he didn't break.

You've lost any credibility with the "benefit of the doubt" statement. YOU LOSE!

[xxx]

The FBI said they think Joran is a sociopath. Let that sink in.

So, somehow internet idiots find the idea that some MB guy that Natalee flirted with killed her as MORE logical than the guy the FBI thinks is a SOCIOPATH killed her, okay, that makes sense.

Natalee Holloway did not OD and bury herself twice in Aruba.

She may have OD'd, that we will never know, but I am 100% sure that other harm came to her and other crimes were committed on her person BEFORE she died.

There is no other explanation for her being burried twice, and "panic" does not last for a year. Ever.

I don't know what kind of TV shows people are watching but the guilty don't confess unless they have to, no matter how long they are interviewed or how many years it takes.

Failure to confess is not a sign of innocence.

It scares me how many stupid people there are in this world.

[Chuck Dunleavy]

df- Your credibility is all reliant on Joran being a genius who can trick all he encounters and pull off the perfect crime, now whose the real idiot? Got a hint for you, it starts with a "y" and ends with a "u"!

[df]

cd- why do you even post? The more you post the more of a$$ you look like. My credibility is not reliant on Joran by HIMSELF pulling off the perfect crime. In case you haven't been paying attention, there are the Kalpoes and Paulus who has friends in high places and knows the laws like the back of his hand. You STILL can't explain all the lies and the contradictions between the suspects. I assume you really haven't followed the case closely as others. I think you just like to see your name on a blog to make yourself feel like your contributing something to society.

xxx - you last post said it the best. It's unreal the level of intelligence of some people especially this cd guy who claims a single american classmate of Natalee's made her disappear without a trace....unreal

[Chuck Dunleavy]

df - joran is a fool, this is why he changes stories, makes things up, wwhatever, he is an immature idiot, thus the reason I do not think he is behind this "perfect" crime.

[df]

let me guess...you probably think the Twitty's are protecting this kid too, right, all the while she's crying on national television because she's lost hope? You don't have a soul. You don't think they have talked to this kid, grilled him, her friends.....do you have kids? You don't think she would have sensed in talking to these kids that they were hiding something? What does Beth have to gain by protecting these students? Nobody can answer that because it's so off the wall in left field. Beth has talked to EVERYBODY including the VDS's and yet she still comes back to Paulus and the boys..Beth had a feeling her daughter was at the house...she was probably right.

[Lexy]

Sorry, I've had it with Aruba. Any decent people living on the island should move away. I hope their economy is destroyed, thought I doubt that will happen. I hope their image never recovers. I hope Natalee's family spend the rest of their lives trashing Aruba and telling Americans to go somewhere else and spend their money.

Posted by: xxx | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 10:51 AM

I hope the people of Aruba don't tar the rest of us by the hateful ramblings of a few. God bless the people of Aruba and their beloved Island.

[jackson80]

i really cant wait to see the "documentary" TV reenactment of this case on NL TV. Since the public is not given much information and the court proceedings are essentially held in secret, i wonder where NL TV is going to get all their information for this infomercial about Aruba.

[df]

Yep their island is beloved that they are scrambling to try and put some crooked ending to this so that their numbers stop from steadily declining. Aruba will and should be punished...

cd - i'm done responding to your assine posts that defy logic and intelligence. Joran is a part of this crime, not the sole person behind it, there are others including his father. That's some kind of logic and reasoning as to why he couldn't do it....because he's an immature idiot. Wow, I hope you were never part of a debate team because your team would surely lose. Who comes back with a response as the reason someone is NOT behind a crime is because they are immature idiots? Wow! The FBI thinks he's a sociopath like Scott Peterson, that's the reason he's part of this crime. He's changing stories because he's knows he can and the reason he knows this is his father. It's not hard to comprehend, really! YAWN...I'm so bored with you...NEXT?

[jackson80]

df - joran is a fool, this is why he changes stories, makes things up, wwhatever, he is an immature idiot, thus the reason I do not think he is behind this "perfect" crime.

Posted by: Chuck Dunleavy | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 01:50 PM

takes one to know one.

[carol]

Why does everyone keep saying Joran is good looking? He looks like the jolly green giant. Sounds like the only way he gets a girl is with sleezy tactics. The evidence in this case was disposed of early on. The truth is that the police in Aruba have very little authority. So now a reality tv show is being made to be aired in Dutch with all this BS proof of no crime no body. In other words, we are to believe she killed herself with drugs and alcohol and with some voodoo magic she buried herself. WOW! This show should win an oscar! It will be out on DVD soon! I wonder what the title of the show be or is there a contest to name the show. Fantasy Island Two!

[Lexy]

Posted by: goodgirl. | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 12:53 PM

Very plausible goodgirl, I also think others are involved in Natalee's disappearance.

[harold]

Approximately five minutes later when Joran LNU was leaving Holloway asked if Joran LNU was planning to meet them later at Carlos and Charlies. (He said it was really dead on Sunday nights???)

Friday, March 31, 2006 at 01:41 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

was he talking about C&C or the beach, first true words outta his mouth.

[harold]

Why does everyone keep saying Joran is good looking?

Posted by: carol | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 02:02 PM

Have you taken a good look at his friends?

[harold]

hi to all the folks from MB on this blog today. The site meter shows that you are out in force.

if you are checking things dont forget to check the inside blog here

http://www.riehlworldview.com/test_blog/

that's where the hardcore pro Aruba bunch hangout.

[harold]

Dutch with all this BS proof of no crime no body. In other words, we are to believe she killed herself with drugs and alcohol and with some voodoo magic she buried herself. WOW! This show should win an oscar! It will be out on DVD soon! I wonder what the title of the show be or is there a contest to name the show. Fantasy Island Two!

Posted by: carol | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 02:02 PM

Yes, Fantasy Island Two: Episode: "Dissing the Missing"

[Florida Patty]

Bye Dingbat and take your handbasket with you.

Dan thanks for the lengthy time it took to transcripe these. Whew.

At 5:24, just below it, that page states something in quotes. I'll do my best with that page:

.."(page is cut) brother. When I (page cuts off) "for the third time I saw a (page cuts off)wasn't wearing my seatbelt and ______(page cuts off)__tion. I decided instead of making a right __ __ in the direction of "Choose A Name". When I turned in xxxx there was a xxxx(row?) of cars in front of me
crawling along that girl put her head out the window and .(shouted) something I didn't understand what she shouted...

++I'm at work so I'll pick it up on the way home.

[ViVi]

hi to all the folks from MB on this blog today. The site meter shows that you are out in force.

if you are checking things dont forget to check the inside blog here

http://www.riehlworldview.com/test_blog/

that's where the hardcore pro Aruba bunch hangout.

Posted by: harold | Friday, March 31, 2006 at 02:16 PM

Be warned, it's ugly in there if you dont hate the Holloway family. Glad to see you posting harold--I saw your posts a week or so ago and have looked for you since.