Inconsistency Emerges In Van Der Sloot Interview

I can't say if this is an inconsistency in Joran's recent version of events, or if people in and around the case were reporting erroneous information.

see here

It is unclear what statements, if any, the boy has made to authorities in this regard.

It is also said that he received a call from Joran Van der Sloot the next day while Joran was playing tennis after school had ended. It's claimed that that is the first Joran had heard of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and called his friend as he was unsure of what to do.

This initial report, which conflicts with some other reports on the case, is unconfirmed through additional sources at this time.

As they say ... developing.

Comments

[justthefactspls]

i thought joran said she was IN and OUT in one interview but in the latest
she was not..

its called COVER YOUR A_ _
LOAD ALERT

Posted by: ROBOTS | Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 11:57 PM

You heard that from BETH. BETH'S BS speculation she's been tossing around as 'fact.' Right up there with the rest fiction she's been spouting unchallenged for month. So glad that's finally changed.

Jeez, if you don't even know who said what. If you can't even get the FACTS of people's statements right. How do you expect to prove you've solved the case ROBOTS?

I'm just looking for some "obvious" EVIDENCE here.

If you don't mind.

[justthefactspls]

I find very difficult to believe ANYTHING that Joran says now. Once u lie, it gives u a label and u are labeled as a LIAR !
Everytime I listen to a segment on the media concerning the NH case, I feel dizzy ! There is so much frackin spin I am dizzy !
Posted by: Stefani | Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 11:41 PM

I feel the exact same way about BETH Twitty et al, and their endless lies and BS. She's been spinning this for such a long time.

Here's some differences I've noted, Joran answers the questions he's asked, he doesn't say "that's not relevant." He doesn't claim that he knows the 'facts' of circumstances he wasn't witness too. He doesn't speculate and accuse. He doesn't call pure speculation facts either. He answers questions that don't make him out to be a saint.

[Kat_Gram]

Just the facts please...
Get a freaking grip ....

"UNLESS of course, you're more interested in passing off your BS as fact? "

The My Sapce was something that was started before Joran met Natalee. All the " friends "
pictures and names were deleted. But it does look funny when you look on the page.

And what about your BS, do you want me to pass off your bs as fact ? I like my own better.

I come on this blog to share opinions and have a few laffs about this case and the way it has played out.

I care very much that a girl is missing, presumed dead and no one has been arrested or charged or a body has not been found.

This a a blog. It will not be solved here on this or any other blog by any of us.

It is also a place to let off steam about this case.

If just the facts could be posted, it would amount to ten lines tops.. None of us know what the facts are.

[justthefactspls]

if JORAN told natalee he was a foreign student from another country
why take her TO HIS HOUSE, he would not have a house there!
another lie added to the list
i think it is up to 863 total lies
Posted by: ROBOTS | Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 11:20 PM

You either weren't paying attention, can't read a transcript, or are just way too deep into the Koolaid.

Joran admitted to her that he was 17 and not a foreign student before they left CnC's. By his own words.

Come on ROBOTS, you've got to do better than this to prove your "obvious" theory of what happened to Natalee.

[kate]

Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.

that's right, he was in jail silly. get a grip, joran has more trips abroad that natalee ever did.

[kate]

"Joran admitted to her that he was 17 and not a foreign student before they left CnC's. By his own words."

by his own words, LOL. he's self confessed liar.

[hardyandtiny]

Last summer a lot of people started wondering why they would have come up with such a complex lie within an hour of receiving the phone call from Paulus. It seemed more likely one or two, or all of them, had thought about it all day and was ready to lie when the call came. Now we find out that acccording to Joran that someone is Deepak - and I bet according to Deepak it's Joran.
The story about the tennis court phone call suspiciously appeared just after some folks started talking about the Holiday Inn lie and how it was created.
Whoever created that lie is most lilely the guilty person, but can we ever know who created it? We'll have to wait to see the record of the interrogations and if the ALE was lied to from both sides or if someone actually admitted to creating the lie.

[CARRY NATION]

I don't know why so many on this board rush to Joran's defense. He was the last known person to see NH (this, from his own mouth). He has lied from the beginning and excuse him if you will, he had a chance to correct himself long ago but continued to lie. So now he's telling the truth, ok, I guess ?
Yes he came across as pretty believable in the Greta interview but some people are very good liars. I KNOW people who can look you in the eye and spin the most unbelievable lies you can imagine.
He is a good liar but not a smart one. I hope he keeps talking because we get to hear something other than Beth's spin or the MSM spin. If liars talk enough they tell the real story in spite of themselves. So, keepa talking baby.....

Posted by: CARRY NATION | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:07 AM

[justthefactspls]

Natalee is murdered and the press is worried about giving poor Joran the benefit of a doubt because he hasn’t been charged with any crime.

There is a 100% chance that Joran and/or the K2s raped and murdered Natalee. No innocent persons the history of mankind have ever acted as these guys are acting. Their behavior and actions says they are guilty as sin.

Why as Joran acting so normal the next day?

Joran was probably gambling as usual the next night because he wasn’t worried. Personally, I think he met with Deepak earlier in the day and discussed the alibi and/or disposal of evidence then. During the Greta’s interview, he first said he met Deepak during the next day and then corrected to say the next night. That seemed like a Freudian slip to me.

Perhaps, the body was taken care of the night before by them or some else because they didn’t seem to be concerned. I also don’t think they expected Natalee’s disappearance to be linked to them or to cause so much commotion. They were not concerned about being caught so soon–if at all–and certainly not the next day. I also wonder if Deepak and/or Joran found out people where looking for them and they sought each other out. One has to wonder if someone called Deepak late that night to warn him–-Joran, Paulus, someone at the HI?

Did you notice that Joran and Deepak “conveniently” managed to miss the group looking for them at the hotel? They obviously did it intentionally to give themselves more time to discuss their alibi. I wonder if there was a call to Satish at that time.

Gary
Posted by: Gary | Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 08:56 PM

What the hell are you on? No innocent person has ever lied to the police? ARE you FREAKING KIDDING me? Dude, go ask any detective if innocent people lie. PLEASE! BECAUSE FRANKLY, that's the ONLY 'STRANGE' BEHAVIOR you can state they're guilty of.

If I buy your theory, then I gotta say I'm extremely impressed. Three boys with no criminal record, didn't Plan a murder, but somehow in the space of a couple hours in the early morning, killed someone, didn't panic, didn't leave any trails or evidence, then went home surfed the web chatted with friends, went to school/work NORMALLY, then sometime during the day, slipped away, and disposed of a body in the middle of the day, in such a way, THAT NO-ONE SAW ANYTHING, went somewhere to clean up, again left no trails or evidence, THEN WENT TO A CASINO to hang out, ABSOLUTELY UNPERTURBED.

WOW, that's freaking amazing. EXCEPT, one would think, that if you could dispose of a body so completely, without experience, on such a tight schedule, and without anybody seeing and without leaving a trace, then MAYBE you could have also come up with a better cover story.

I MEAN clearly these amateurs are smarter than the all the investigators, searchers and their equipment.

I got ONE SIMPLE QUESTION for you. WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE? EVEN A SHRED OF IT?

[Kat_Gram]

Dave Holloway, who most of us have a tremendous amount of respect and sympathy for says something like this.... She got in the car with the three boys and hasn't been seen since. That is a fact.

Katie, how clever, I am sure J will always remember his 18th birthday in the KIA prison. Look what that Natalee did to him ! ! !

[justthefactspls]

Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:17 AM

As are the overwhelming majority of teenager and adults Kate. Being a liar, does not make him or anyone else guilty of murder or gangrape.

Beth Twitty has been lying for months. But whatever.

You certainly don't have to believe Joran. But you should and do have to proof the accusations of rape and murder. Clearly you can't.

Based on the absolute lack of evidence in this case, I find it more believable that a 17 year old boy lied cause he was afraid he's be in trouble with his dad. Than I find the theory that they killed her and disposed of all evidence so completely that nothing could be found, when they would only have a couple hours max to do so. I find it even more difficult to believe Beth's theory that there's no evidence because of some grand conspiracy reaching all the way to the Hague (in her words).

[justthefactspls]

Posted by: CARRY NATION | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:18 AM

Doesn't it tell you something, that this 18 year old who is in the middle of an investigation is so willing to answer all questions asked in public and on tape? He's gone head to head with two legal media interviewers and answered all their questions. ABC investigated what they could to verify his responses. If someone thought they might say something to prove their guilt they would not speak. But he's more concerned with his reputation than the criminal proceedings, because, IMO he's innocent.

Yes he lied before, but he's not the first teenager to do so. That does not make him a murderer. And NOTHING shown after 9 months even comes close to proving that.

[justthefactspls]

Posted by: hardyandtiny | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:17 AM

I disagree that the Holiday Inn lie was thought up all day. I think it's more likely Deepak, (by Joran's words) thought of it on the spot. I think it was a far more casual suggestion, by one guy trying to help a friend out of a jam with his dad. More of a - just tell them you dropped her off at the hotel and get your dad off you case - scenario. Not some diabolical scheme, but what young people do in giving advice on how to fool their parents. That's just the way I see it.

[Kat_Gram]

Couple of hours max? They had ten days. They met to discuss the " story " Two other people were held on suspicion based on their lies.

There were no searches or serious investigation of those three or where they said they left her. Their " story " directed any looking away from the Marriott as they said they dropped her off at the Holiday Inn.

Natalee had been in Deepak's car, no disagreement there. Yet not a trace was found .. a hair, a fibre a anything. TEN DAYS LATER.

[justthefactspls]

Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.
that's right, he was in jail silly. get a grip, joran has more trips abroad that natalee ever did.
Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:15 AM

Natalee, who was so well travelled according to Beth? *sigh*

KATE don't be deliberately OBTUSE. You claimed that Joran's parents were "very permissive" because his dad took him to a free poker game.

Well let's compare how permissive Natalee's parents were.

Five Days Unsupervised with Friends, hundreds of miles away from home, on a trip where there would be drinking, gambling, clubbing and partying, at minimum. Gee, how would the parents know these activities would be taking place? Because the same trip occured in the previous years and the "chaperones who were not actually responsible for anyone" would have been available to answer questions. Beyond that, they had to sign a waiver, absolving them of responsibility for their children.

So, I take that to mean, Natalee had permission from her parents to engage in the gambling, drinking, clubbing and partying that she was engaged in, far away from home and parental supervision.

I'll repost the thread for you, see if it jogs your memory of what your comments were.

---

When any of us were 16 / 17 / 18 did your Dad ever give you an allowance big enough to go to niteclubs, drink and go to Casinos ?

I could never stay out until that hour no matter whether it was a school nite or not.

Very permissive parents.

Posted by: Kat_Gram | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:36 AM

I don't know about that. Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.

Don't try to use a double standard here.

"Permissive parenting" apparently abounds everywhere by your standards anyway.

Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:54 AM

[CARRY NATION]

Yes he lied before, but he's not the first teenager to do so. That does not make him a murderer. And NOTHING shown after 9 months even comes close to proving that.
Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:35 AM

I think if she died it was accidental. We don't know what the ALE has or doesn't have as evidence.

[justthefactspls]

Posted by: Kat_Gram | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:39 AM

NO traces of anything of Natalee's in the car. Do YOU shed in every car you get into? So let me get this straight, they find NO EVIDENCE of anything in the car, no blood, no bodily fluids nothing, but it's THAT that makes them guilty. THE COMPLETE LACK OF EVIDENCE is what proves their guilt to you. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?

DNA can be found years later. The Forensics Institute found chocolate stains that someone had tried to clean up, but NOT a SPOT on anything from NATALEE. TEN DAYS or not, even if they had 10 months, they couldn't get the car so freaking spotless that NOTHING could be found.

SO AGAIN, I ASK, HOW IS THE ABSOLUTLE LACK OF EVIDENCE, PROOF OF GUILT?

[justthefactspls]

I think if she died it was accidental. We don't know what the ALE has or doesn't have as evidence.
Posted by: CARRY NATION | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:47 AM

CARRY, let me remind you of what we do know abou the evidence the LE has. We do know that the standard for arrest in Aruba is lower than in the US. Where you can be held for months on suspicion.

We do know that they don't even have enough evidence to hold them based on Suspicion.

We know this becuase they were released by a judge's orders, and the prosecutor appealed to 3 more judges, who also concluded that there was not enough evidence to hold them on suspicion.

If there is not evend sufficient evidence according to the rulings of four judges, to hold them on suspicion. There is certainly not enough evidence to arrest them and charge them, nevermind convicting them of ANY crime.

[Wearenotstupid]

Im Sure Koen was that friend and it has been said that Koens daddy wouldnt let him answer questions
and Someone from another blog was in Aruba and Koens daddy has house for sale and boat also I guess there moving to Holland

[Gary]

Justthefacts said:

If I buy your theory, then I gotta say I'm extremely impressed. Three boys with no criminal record, didn't Plan a murder, but somehow in the space of a couple hours in the early morning, killed someone, didn't panic, didn't leave any trails or evidence, then went home surfed the web chatted with friends, went to school/work NORMALLY, then sometime during the day, slipped away, and disposed of a body in the middle of the day, in such a way, THAT NO-ONE SAW ANYTHING, went somewhere to clean up, again left no trails or evidence, THEN WENT TO A CASINO to hang out, ABSOLUTELY UNPERTURBED.

WOW, that's freaking amazing. EXCEPT, one would think, that if you could dispose of a body so completely, without experience, on such a tight schedule, and without anybody seeing and without leaving a trace, then MAYBE you could have also come up with a better cover story.

I MEAN clearly these amateurs are smarter than the all the investigators, searchers and their equipment.
_________________________________________________

You are forgetting who is doing the investigating, the Aruban "Key Stone Cops." They probably didn't have any forensic equipment or the skills needed to find evidence. One can only imagine how incompetent their search of the van der Sloot property was. I bet a million dollars that even today, 9 months after the crime, Dr. Henry Lee could find evidence of a crime somewhere on the van der Sloot property. If Paulus ever sells his house and the next owner lets Henry on the property, he will find evidence.

Anyways, if she was killed on the beach, there would be little or no evidence, esp. if one didn't know the exact place to look.

As far as his behavior the next day goes, I already discussed that he is a very confidence, young man and probably a sociopath. He would naturally expect not to get caught like his blood brother, Scott Peterson. You are underestimating Joran's ego and self-confidence.

[justthefactspls]

Koen had been questioned by the ALE, even Dave Holloway admits that.

[kate]

there is circumstantial evidence, but no proof positive. why? because for ten days the three suspects in this case were letting two other men take the wrap. after that ten days the three suspects were still lying and leading the police in the wrong direction/s. even if they are innocent (which i highly doubt), it's their fault for this never being settled. if joran wants me of him as only an a$$wipe and not guilty of a crime, let him take a lie detector test with the fbi. as far as beth lying, she has repeated what has been presented to her. why not bring up dave (you sexist pigs), he says the exact same things beth does. for pete's sake, the whole family does. man, you guys think beth was bad. if that was my kid, i would have ripped that island (or any other place) up one side and down the other. i would have made beth look like a choirgirl. ps. one or more of the three is still lying. where is natalee? she deserves a proper burial, the poor kid.

[kate]

"KATE don't be deliberately OBTUSE. You claimed that Joran's parents were "very permissive" because his dad took him to a free poker game."

wrong, i never said anything about a poker game.

[justthefactspls]

You are forgetting who is doing the investigating, the Aruban "Key Stone Cops." They probably didn't have any forensic equipment or the skills needed to find evidence. One can only imagine how incompetent their search of the van der Sloot property was. I bet a million dollars that even today, 9 months after the crime, Dr. Henry Lee could find evidence of a crime somewhere on the van der Sloot property. If Paulus ever sells his house and the next owner lets Henry on the property, he will find evidence.

Anyways, if she was killed on the beach, there would be little or no evidence, esp. if one didn't know the exact place to look.

As far as his behavior the next day goes, I already discussed that he is a very confidence, young man and probably a sociopath. He would naturally expect not to get caught like his blood brother, Scott Peterson. You are underestimating Joran's ego and self-confidence.

Posted by: Gary | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 02:08 AM

GARY, I haven't forgotten a thing. WHAT YOU seem to have forgotten, was that the FBI also ran tests on the samples from the car. THEY'VE ALSO said there was NO EVIDENCE found in the car. BUT I guess they're associated with the "key-stone cops" and the mass conspiracy too. THE ALE did not run the forensics test on the car, the Forensics Institute in Holland did. Why don't you look up their reputation for yourself, and the FBI's while you're at it.

HELL YEAH, IF YOU'VE GOT A MILLION TO BET, I'LL GLADLY TAKE YOU UP ON IT!!

You're comparisons to Scott Peterson are quite ridiculous. One's a grown man, and the other is a 17 year old boy. One kept silent, and one's been talking to everyone who would listen. One has evidence against hime, and one has absolutely ZERO evidence against him.

Before you start labelling people sociopaths, I suggest you look up the actual definition and syptoms of that diagnosis. Because if you do actually know what that means, you'll see that those characteristics are absolutely not displayed in this boy.

It's so ludicrous that people say that because he was calm and forthright during the interview he's a sociopath. If those people are honest with themselves, had he been nervous and reaching for words or answers they would have said he's lying and has a guilty conscience. You cannot have it both ways.

So you up for the bet?

[justthefactspls]

there is circumstantial evidence, but no proof positive. why? because for ten days the three suspects in this case were letting two other men take the wrap. after that ten days the three suspects were still lying and leading the police in the wrong direction/s. even if they are innocent (which i highly doubt), it's their fault for this never being settled. if joran wants me of him as only an a$$wipe and not guilty of a crime, let him take a lie detector test with the fbi. as far as beth lying, she has repeated what has been presented to her. why not bring up dave (you sexist pigs), he says the exact same things beth does. for pete's sake, the whole family does. man, you guys think beth was bad. if that was my kid, i would have ripped that island (or any other place) up one side and down the other. i would have made beth look like a choirgirl. ps. one or more of the three is still lying. where is natalee? she deserves a proper burial, the poor kid.

Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 02:11 AM

LOL KATE, a lie detector test proves what? I'm just amazed that that's all it would take to convince you he's innocent. When months of searching for evidence against him has turned up nothing. When months of interrogation by trained Dutch investigators have shown nothing. Wow, a lie detector test is all you need?

[justthefactspls]

"KATE don't be deliberately OBTUSE. You claimed that Joran's parents were "very permissive" because his dad took him to a free poker game."
wrong, i never said anything about a poker game.
Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 02:15 AM

You're still being DELIBERATELY OBTUSE KATE. Because you are MISREPRESENTING THE ISSUE THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED.

You're original point was that Joran's parents were "permissive" because his dad brought him to the casino at 17 years old. ALLOW me to point out, that it was for a free poker game.

MY counterpoint to you, was that by YOUR standards of "permissive parenting" Natalee's parents are go beyond permissive sine they sent her unsupervised on a five day GAMBLING, DRINKING, PARTYING AND CLUBBING TRIP, far away from home as a reward.

AGAIN see and this time READ YOUR OWN posts below:

Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.
that's right, he was in jail silly. get a grip, joran has more trips abroad that natalee ever did.
Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:15 AM

Natalee, who was so well travelled according to Beth? *sigh*

KATE don't be deliberately OBTUSE. You claimed that Joran's parents were "very permissive" because his dad took him to a free poker game.

Well let's compare how permissive Natalee's parents were.

Five Days Unsupervised with Friends, hundreds of miles away from home, on a trip where there would be drinking, gambling, clubbing and partying, at minimum. Gee, how would the parents know these activities would be taking place? Because the same trip occured in the previous years and the "chaperones who were not actually responsible for anyone" would have been available to answer questions. Beyond that, they had to sign a waiver, absolving them of responsibility for their children.

So, I take that to mean, Natalee had permission from her parents to engage in the gambling, drinking, clubbing and partying that she was engaged in, far away from home and parental supervision.

I'll repost the thread for you, see if it jogs your memory of what your comments were.

---

When any of us were 16 / 17 / 18 did your Dad ever give you an allowance big enough to go to niteclubs, drink and go to Casinos ?

I could never stay out until that hour no matter whether it was a school nite or not.

Very permissive parents.

Posted by: Kat_Gram | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:36 AM

I don't know about that. Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.

Don't try to use a double standard here.

"Permissive parenting" apparently abounds everywhere by your standards anyway.

Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:54 AM

Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:46 AM

[justthefactspls]

Folks, it's almost 2:30am, I am going to bed. If any of you are interested in testing your theories against the facts, or seeing how your memory of the facts hold up, please drop by The Refugees board.

http://ceetveerefugees.11.forumer.com/index.php

They post transcripts and links to a lot of the information in this case, and the posters spend a good amount of time debunking the misinformation and speculation posted elsewhere (like by some of the posters here). There's a moderated forum and and unmoderated forum, depending on how friendly you's like to keep the debate. It's open to all opinions and speculation is fine, just be certain you are not misrepresenting the facts or your speculation as facts. Enjoy, if you dare!

[kate]

Profile of the Sociopath

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

[hardyandtiny]

I disagree that the Holiday Inn lie was thought up all day. I think it's more likely Deepak, (by Joran's words) thought of it on the spot. I think it was a far more casual suggestion, by one guy trying to help a friend out of a jam with his dad.
Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:39 AM
I know what you mean. I thought it was possible the 21 year-old was helping out the younger guy with a simple suggestion. And IF that is Deepak's argument I'm at a dead emd. But then Joran said Deepak didn't ask what happened with the girl he just suggested the lie. Then again, there's is no rule that says Deepak must ask questions about the prior night. We're only hearing one side of the story. I'd like to hear Deepak's version as well. Although in the end I'm certain I'll still have nothing but speculation I'd like to hear Deepak go through the timeline.

[hardyandtiny]

there is circumstantial evidence, but no proof positive. why? because for ten days the three suspects in this case were letting two other men take the wrap. after that ten days the three suspects were still lying and leading the police in the wrong direction/s.
Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 02:11 AM
I was hoping Greta would ask Joran if he and Deepak told the police that Satish was with them when they first told the story, or if the Twitty's had asked about Satish. Seemed odd they didn't immediately seek out Satish that night.

[kate]

justthefactspls, see the post below:

"When any of us were 16 / 17 / 18 did your Dad ever give you an allowance big enough to go to niteclubs, drink and go to Casinos ?

I could never stay out until that hour no matter whether it was a school nite or not.

Very permissive parents.

Posted by: Kat_Gram | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:36 AM

I don't know about that. Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.

Don't try to use a double standard here.

"Permissive parenting" apparently abounds everywhere by your standards anyway.

Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 12:54 AM"

got that? see post below:

Joran's parents didn't send him on five night practically unchaperoned drink, gamble, club and party abroad trip, as a reward at 18. But Natalee's parents did.

that's right, he was in jail silly. get a grip, joran has more trips abroad that natalee ever did.

Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:15 AM

i responded to your comment to kat gram. i am not kat gram - i am kate. hope that clears it up for you.

[Gary]

Justthefacts said:

GARY, I haven't forgotten a thing. WHAT YOU seem to have forgotten, was that the FBI also ran tests on the samples from the car. THEY'VE ALSO said there was NO EVIDENCE found in the car. BUT I guess they're associated with the "key-stone cops" and the mass conspiracy too. THE ALE did not run the forensics test on the car, the Forensics Institute in Holland did. Why don't you look up their reputation for yourself, and the FBI's while you're at it.

HELL YEAH, IF YOU'VE GOT A MILLION TO BET, I'LL GLADLY TAKE YOU UP ON IT!!

You're comparisons to Scott Peterson are quite ridiculous. One's a grown man, and the other is a 17 year old boy. One kept silent, and one's been talking to everyone who would listen. One has evidence against hime, and one has absolutely ZERO evidence against him.

Before you start labelling people sociopaths, I suggest you look up the actual definition and syptoms of that diagnosis. Because if you do actually know what that means, you'll see that those characteristics are absolutely not displayed in this boy.
________________________________

If Natalee died a Joran's apartment, there would be no incriminating evidence in Deepak's car. But you think it is strange that no a single hair of Natalee's was found in the car considering that she was there making out with Joran? Under the circumstances, NOT FINDING ANYTHING is actually suspicious and suggests a very thorough cleaning.

The place that was not searched thoroughly was the van der Sloot property--the most likely crime scene. The FBI never had access to that property!

The case is very similar to the Scott Peterson case. There is no known cause of death, no known time of death, no known crime scene, no witnesses, and no physical evidence pointing to Scott. Does this all sound familiar? All they really had were lies, a motive and a very unlikeable accused. That was enough to get Peterson convicted of murder and sentenced to death.

As far as being a sociopath, I discussed that issue before on the internet. Joran matches the definition perfectly. I could give a long answer but basically:

Joran is is a sociopath and that's why he is not really deterred by the law/societal norms. I don't think he can truly appreciate that what he did was wrong. He has that "she deserved it mentality" and blames Natalee for everything that he did to her.

P.S. Do have much more than a million dollars. Do you have enough money to match my bet?

[hardyandtiny]

One thing that really surprised me about the interview with Joran was that he said they were dropped off at the corner where the Marriot is just to the south and the beach road runs north. I was always under the impression that they were dropped off at the Fisherman's Huts. And it SEEMS that Joran is claiming he was also picked up at that point. Although that was not made clear I got that impression. (why didn't she ask if he was picked up whe he was opped off?)
Anyway, considering that drop off point at 130am, you would think someone out there saw something. Maybe the ALE does have witnesses that saw them dropped off/walking pass the area?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/namsanboy/dropoff2.jpg

[kate]

"LOL KATE, a lie detector test proves what? I'm just amazed that that's all it would take to convince you he's innocent. When months of searching for evidence against him has turned up nothing. When months of interrogation by trained Dutch investigators have shown nothing. Wow, a lie detector test is all you need?

Posted by: justthefactspls | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 02:22 AM"

that is correct. a lie detector test administered by the fbi and released to the public by the fbi is all it need.

[Gary]

Kate, I loved your summary of the characterists of a sociopath. It is worth repeating with a few additions by me in parentheses:

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. (How can anyone believe him when constantly changes his story? I still can't figure what those who believe him think happened. Which version of events is the one they believe is his truthful version?)

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge.
Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common. (He likes to takes risks--why have consensual sex when it is more dangerous and fun to rape a girl, why stay safely in Holland when he can take a risk by going to the U.S., etc. I really believe he would like to go to college here just because it would put him at more risk.)

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. (Never showed any concern for Natalee's well-being? He says if he ever say Natalee again he would hate her and never offered to help find her.)

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Posted by: kate

Is this a accurate description of Joran or what?

[hardyandtiny]

Some folks claim they were never at the beach. However the lawyers have said there is evidence that Joran made a call from that AREA. So what was he doing in that AREA at 230am making a call to Deepak? How would that work into the scenario of them never going to the beach? Why would Joran be in that area making a call?

[kate]

Posted by: hardyandtiny | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 03:20 AM

i wish she would have asked that to. i also wish she would ask ale about the fishermen witnesses. i believe it was arlene schipper (sp?) or the kalpoes attorney who stated that the fishermen (who made statements admitted in court according to them) didn't see anyone on the beach at that time. note that joran said HE passed another couple on the beach at one point. guess the fishermen witnesses were bogus, or were they.

[hardyandtiny]

Another point of the interview I found odd was that Joran told Natalee he was 19 but then Greta never asked him what school he told Natalee he was going to. He said he told her he had to go to school, so I guess she must have wondered which school? Or maybe she was just bombed and it never dawnwed on her? Or maybe at some point he told Natalee the truth and said he was in high school. Anyway, I would have liked to have seen the response from Joran.

[hardyandtiny]

i wish she would have asked that to. i also wish she would ask ale about the fishermen witnesses. i believe it was arlene schipper (sp?) or the kalpoes attorney who stated that the fishermen (who made statements admitted in court according to them) didn't see anyone on the beach at that time. note that joran said HE passed another couple on the beach at one point. guess the fishermen witnesses were bogus, or were they.

Posted by: kate | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 03:34 AM

Do the fishermen fish from offshore there or is that just a place where they gather before going out? Seems a little busy for good off-shore fishing. I could be wrong. I guess 200 meters is enough to keep things quiet at night.
Looking at the area from above I guess that's a very popular spot to hang out and fool around. It's not too far from the hotels and just enough space to find a bit of privacy - plus you can drive right up to it. You can do stuff there and then easily walk back to the action in 20 minutes. It would be the logical place to take a girl for some action if she was staying at the Holiday Inn.

[cheri]

I can not believe the way people want to hang this kid just to "give Beth closure">>>>?

He left her on the beach....then who knows? There is a "locals" bar near there I am told, there were many party people there with boats for the concerts, also even the fishermen

I find it far more likely that some guy with a boat met her, took her willingly or by force....she is probably in the ocean, in deep water

The "civil suit" is going to backfire on them, Jorans lawyer, Joe Tacopina is great, and he is so strongly behind Joran. It is about time he got a chance to state his case since Beth and the talking heads on cable have called him so many names, murderer, serial rapist, etc

[kate]

gary, yes i agree. joran displays a lot of those signs. i got the feeling he was playing with us during the interview. some truths, some lies - all just a game to him. he seemed to enjoy it, which was weird.

h & t, regarding how old he was, we will never know for sure what he really told her.

night everybody, i'm turning in.

[katy]

If anyone here thinks Joran is a psychopath, you have never met one. Psychopaths have no close friends - all their relationships are very superficial. Joran apparantly had many. The word is thrown around too much. Ted Bundy was a diagnosed psychopath, but Scott Peterson is not. I've even seen those same symptoms listed further up in the discussion attributed to Mrs Twitty. It does not apply to any of the main players.

[Honey]

This phone call while at the tennis court is total speculation. I remember it starting on the internet and probably it was right here at RWV.

Dan, this was from a post supposedly written by Melody.

Posted by: sensible1 | Sunday, March 05, 2006 at 11:46 PM

and Granny battered us with it for months. The part about a friend staying at his apartment, I think it was Freddy, is baloney, too. This is old discarded news.

[Honey]

If anyone here thinks Joran is a psychopath, you have never met one. Psychopaths have no close friends - all their relationships are very superficial. Joran apparantly had many. The word is thrown around too much. Ted Bundy was a diagnosed psychopath, but Scott Peterson is not. I've even seen those same symptoms listed further up in the discussion attributed to Mrs Twitty. It does not apply to any of the main players.

Posted by: katy | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 04:08 AM

Thank you. Too bad nobody will listen to you. They'll keep throwing out words like sociopath and narcissist that can't be diagnosed in a teenager.

Other notes: to those who think JQK will ever get to depose the Van der Sloots, Joe Tacopina has already said that, if the case goes forward, JQK is going to have to pony up those girls he claims Joran raped and drugged and the documents and statements that are claimed in the complaint. The case will end right there. They've proffered evidence as the basis of their complaint and, if they can't produce, they'll have a big mess on their hands.

To those who keep harping on Joran lying, I'll leave you the words of Mark Geragos:

"Wow, where do you hang out? What do you mean, most people don't lie."

and remember the people who keep claiming there have been 20 or 30 or 50 versions of Joran's story
are LYING too.

[Honey]

Natalee had been in Deepak's car, no disagreement there. Yet not a trace was found .. a hair, a fibre a anything. TEN DAYS LATER.

Posted by: Kat_Gram | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 01:39 AM

and you know this how?

[hardyandtiny]

find it far more likely that some guy with a boat met her, took her willingly or by force....she is probably in the ocean, in deep water
Posted by: cheri | Monday, March 06, 2006 at 03:58 AM
Yeah sure it's possible. The classic response will be that in that scenario the suspects' initial reactions are illogical, OR she may have never been on the beach.
It's almost like we could create a "responsbot" for each scenario offered.

The funny thing about this is the location where Joran claims he left her sets up the perfect dilemna. If he claimed to have left her directly in front of the Holiday Inn at the beach or - at the other extreme - on the other side of the island in the middle of nowhere , maybe the Natural Bridge, what would be your conclusion? The location where he claims to have left her is just about right to make some feel she could have been swept away by a third party lunatic, and at the same time allows others to believe it was beyond common sense too have just "left her alone".

But where they claim to have dropped off.......

As I look at the place where Joran claims to have left her I simultaneously believe he was okay in doing that and it was unlikely someone would have nabbed her.
Joran did make a call from that area at 230am or so. The little evidence we do have (as outsiders without full information) shows him in that general area.

Joran claims to have been dropped off by the Marriot and then to walk on the beach with Natalee towards the Fisherman's Huts. This seems like the truth. Why would anyone without knowledge of what was happening in that area near the Marriot use it as part of their story? If the beach-drop was also a lie they would have said they dropped them off at the Huts and not near the Marriot, no?

So maybe they were dropped off together, there, at the north side of the Marriot.

Maybe she kept walking North on the beach towards the other beaches?

[yankee-in-france]

Sure do not understand why this thread was started to begin with. When you know that there is in fact an inconsistency, then start the thread. All this does is feed the animals.

[yankee-in-france]

Scubajap posted photos on FOB -- one of which is a boat right near the shore. Natalee would only have had to walk four feet to get on the boat. Who knows, maybe a boat came and offered a ride back to the HI. Before commenting, look at Scuba's photos.

[Shari]

Didn't I remember reading somewhere that Joran's friend slept over his house (guest house) and if so, why hasn't any more info been released on that? Makes you wonder if they ever made it out to the beach at all.

[boywonder]

Anyone beside myself think Joran is a jr member of the mob? Steve Croes definatly comes across as another jr member. In my opinion PVDS is the resident Consiglerie....And its obvious Joran is covering for someone and it sure aint the Kalpoes. If Paulus were to go down...the mob would have bigger problems than a missing teenager..