Re-Thinking The Natalee Holloway Disappearance

A quick note before I start, Greta is on TV talking about the ABC video. This was a casino video - Beth knew it existed. What does it say about Fox's actual reporting that it came from another network after all this time? If you really think Greta Van Sustern is some kind of an actual news reporter, you must be daft.

Many of the followers of the Natalee Holloway case seem to have had it ingrained into them via cable news that Joran Van Der Sloot is a murderer and a rapist. No other answer will do. However, there are some good reasons to reflect back on events and at least contemplate another possibility, if not two or three. But I'll only deal with one here. Is it possible one or both of the Kalpoes raped and murdered Natalee Holloway and had help to hide the crime?

Let's review some facts and some items, even if they can't be confirmed as true.

Fact, starting with an outrageous report from Geraldo Rivera, cable news cast Joran Van Der Sloot as a devil long before there was any proof. And, actually, there never has been any proof of such a thing, other than he lied early in the investigation. People were informed by Geraldo Rivera Joran made and sold a pornographic video featuring underage girls - not true. We've been told there is a long line of Aruban girls who claim Joran was involved in some rape, or date rape scenario with them, but none have been produced.

At the same time I did conduct personal interviews with two separate females who either knew Van Der Sloot or dated him. One was living in the US at the time, far from any intimidation or threat. Those interviews gave no such impression of an evil Joran, in fact, the opposite. And there was also an American girl, however misguided, who spoke out favorably on his behalf.

Based upon the facts I know to be true, versus the hyperbole of cable news, there's simply no way for me to conclude Van Der Sloot is an evil rapist or murderer. And if there were, I would say so.

Like it or not, Fox and Natalee's Mother gave everyone a villain before there was any actual proof of a crime. Even the Mountain Brook students who encountered Joran spoke well of him until the story began to be shaped in a narrative designed more to hold an audience, than to inform.

So, suppose the assertion that Satish Kalpoe did drive Joran home that night is true. I've heard there is reason to believe it from actual police reports, despite the denials of the Kalpoe attorney. The fact is, if he admitted it, it would put his clients in a real bind.

Consider this. If either of the Kalpoes drove Joran home, not only would they know he left Natalee alive, but he would be over an hour on foot away from her - and he of all of the three boys did not have a access to a vehicle. Could Satish have decided to take a quick drive back to the beach where Natalee was left after dropping Joran at home? I can't suggest he did, but I also certainly can't rule it out.

And remember, there are reports, one which I myself passed along, which was apparently confirmed, that the two Kalpoe brothers were cleaning out Deepak's vehicle shortly after Natalee's disappearance. Why would that be if they simply dropped Joran and Natalee off at the beach? Did something go on in that vehicle after Joran was dropped at home?

Also, enter Steve Croes who foolishly stepped in to try and give the boys an alibi. He was not a friend of Joran's. He was a friend of Deepaks, so far as I can tell.

I'm not trying to steer attention away from Van Der Sloot. My interest in this case began like most people's, with a genuine desire to find out the truth of what happened to a missing young girl. That's never changed. I've forced myself to not buy into the unsupported statements, the confusing allegations, not because I don't like someone, but because there was no way for me to see how such things would lead me to the truth.

It's easy to blame someone for a crime you can't prove they committed. It's more difficult to reign in your emotions and insist on solid evidence because it's the only thing which can give you solid answers. When I look at what I personally have been able to learn of the principles in this case, it's more difficult for me to conclude Joran did it, than to conclude he did not.

And if that indeed is the case, it opens up the possibilities to some other interesting scenarios which may not have been as over-zealously pursued. Something happened in or around that beach that night in Aruba. And someone likely knows what it was. And at least one possible reason why we've never gotten answers is because we've been asking the wrong person.

Lastly, a senior criminal interrogator was brought in from Holland. And his reputation was that of one of the best. After significant time going at Joran Van Der Sloot, his conclusion was there likely wasn't anything else there to get.

Whatever the case, unfortunately, while the video tomorrow night on PrimeTime may be compelling for some, I doubt it will yield any of the real answers people want when it comes to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Update: I meant to add this. I realize no matter what I write here, some of you are going to insist everything is the work of those sneaky, scheming Dutch - but it's a fact. Joran has not been cleared as a suspect in this case. If he were actually a good liar, his early lies likely wouldn't have come to light. Fact is, he's a bad liar, apparently.

His Father knows the law. I have a difficult time believing his Father would allow him to go on TV for an extended interview now of any kind, with any restriction, given that one misstatement captured on tape could put him back in jail. Based on logic, it's difficult to conclude he has anything to hide.

Maybe he does. But if he did and he was my son, he wouldn't go near a television studio under any conditions until he was cleared as a suspect and not subject to re-arrest.

Comments

[Flying Dutchman]

There's proof that they were seated near one another and that she wasn't aggressively pursuing him as he's claimed in interviews. There's proof that he said he went to the casino to enter a poker tourney but was videoed playing blackjack and now he's trying to packpedal his story.

Posted by: Bitsey | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 03:24 AM

And this proves...?

[roy]

Just suppose that Joran was trying to cover for Satish....
That would also explain his expression that some day he will tell us more..
Who knows?

[Bitsey]

And this proves...?
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 03:31 AM

Joran can't keep track of his stories.

[godmother]

If Paulus had any respect for the law,or abided by the law, then he wouldn't be endorsing His Son to break the law by gambeling in casinos and drinking.He obviously lost control over Jorin long ago.Had he any regard for the law,Jorin would be at home instead of gamboling, drinking,drugging victims, and murdering them. No crime would have been committed if DaddySloot did his job and Natalee would be alive today.

[Bitsey]

Just suppose that Joran was trying to cover for Satish....
That would also explain his expression that some day he will tell us more..
Who knows?
Posted by: roy | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 03:54 AM

Satish appears to be doing just fine without Joran "covering" for him with lies that implicate Satish but "clear" Joran.

[roy]

Satish appears to be doing just fine without Joran "covering" for him with lies that implicate Satish but "clear" Joran.

Posted by: Bitsey | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 04:08 AM

And...??

[truthbetold]

I know of ONE lie Joran told - ONE that there is actual proof of and that is where he admits to lying about dropping her off at the hotel and that is it and ALL he admitted he lied about PERIOD. However, I have heard SEVERAL lies, half truths, and the like come from beth Twitty and the group she assembled as her "supporters" which just happened to include a suspected money launderer and mafia person, her husband with ties to a brother who works for a bank with a fine for money laundering being conducted in his bank, a man who abuses women and commits crimes, a tv "dr" who hires people to edit and splice video for tv ratings true or not, and the several other not so reputable people she has used to further this circus of hers. Why Joran lied to begin with, I don't know. Does it look bad he did? Sure it does. But I am more apt to believe he was just a scared kid after all the BS I have heard come from the Twittys and those kids in MB. You could fly jets through the holes in their stories and there is documented proof that Beth has lied again and again and changed her statements again and again and showed her true colors enough for me to make up my mind....no matter who gets all in a hissy fit about it, Joran actually comes out looking more honest than the mother of the supposed victim in this case.

[SallyVee]

Good post Dan.

I can't see three kids sticking together like glue with a bogus story, up against many interrogators over many weeks/months.

Joran does not look or act like a rapist or murderer. The interview will accrue favorably to him in time.

I watched Greta Van Scientologist for awhile. Cuomo of ABC was impressive, and I really enjoyed the fact that he had the scoop. He pretended to be deferential to Greta, but his true opinion of her came through, loud and clear. I think what Cuomo said was true: the video proves nothing other than it tends to corroborate parts of Joran's description of the night's events... After Cuomo, the "panel of experts" was led off by a flaming jackass I'd never seen before... guy named Cardozo or something? We flipped to another channel right after that.

[Student]

Good post Dan! I'm completely new here, but have been reading the NH stuff for a while now.

I think everybody is analyzing everything Joran sais and does.
Lots of people find it very strange that he left Natalee on the beach that night. Okay, it is not what I would have done if I was a guy, but hey, who is acting completely thoughtful and rational at the age of 17 when you drunk?
I can't imagine that Joran committed the perfect crime, even OJ Simpson was't able to do that. And how can you kill someone AND hide the body in such a short time span? The body would then be somewhere nearby, and it is very strange in my opinion that advanced 'finding-technology' (as I call it) cannot find the body then.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Good morning, all! I just wanted to applaud Dan for his post (above) and to add to it that I personally feel that if the FBI heard/saw/read anything that led them to believe JvdS and/or the Kalpoes were guilty of some sort of crime (if one was even committed), that they would have come back to the US screaming and finger-pointing. Last I heard, that didn't happen. You know?

[hardyandtiny]

I wonder why Joran would continue to say Satish picked him up if it's not true? He has already said that he knows lying is not a crime, so why would he continue to lie about Satish picking him up?

[Jody]

I am glad that ABC, Vanity Fair and others are willing to show the world there are two sides to this story, and the story that Beth has spun can't be believed.

[boywonder]

Good morning, all! I just wanted to applaud Dan for his post (above) and to add to it that I personally feel that if the FBI heard/saw/read anything that led them to believe JvdS and/or the Kalpoes were guilty of some sort of crime (if one was even committed), that they would have come back to the US screaming and finger-pointing. Last I heard, that didn't happen. You know?

Posted by: ChinbeardXIV | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:11 AM

You obviously have no idea how the FBI works....but keep up your hopes up that Joran didnt insert his foot in his mouth yet again.....Now he says he INTENDED to take her to his house ....its funny how the truth is interspersed amongst the BS. Hey Chris did you ask Joran when he found out his Daddy wasnt a judge after all?

[Donna]

About Natalee using the cell phone in the Casino..

I live near a casino, and everytime we go there, there is a sign that states no cell phones or pagers are allowed to be used on the gaming floor. All cell phones have to either be turned off or put on vibrator mode. IF you get a call or want to make a call you must go outside of the casino. Could this be the reason why Natalee kept going out of the casino, to keep making calls?

Is this phone she rented when she got to Aruba? Or was it one of hers she brought with her? And has ALE received the phone records?

[ChinbeardXIV]

You obviously have no idea how the FBI works....but keep up your hopes up that Joran didnt insert his foot in his mouth yet again.....Now he says he INTENDED to take her to his house ....its funny how the truth is interspersed amongst the BS. Hey Chris did you ask Joran when he found out his Daddy wasnt a judge after all?

Posted by: boywonder | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:29 AM

Holy closed minds, boywonder! I suppose you work for the FBI and all, huh? Riddle me this...if the FBI had seen/heard/read anything at all that went contrary to JvdS statements, they'd have alerted someone by now, wouldn't they? Of course. You'd have to have your head in the sand to think otherwise.

[xxx]

I will only say this, that is the first post by Dan that DID not contain any sneering, negative or salacious references to Natalee and her family in many, many months.

It is a reasonable alternative scenario, it would make sense that the brothers would stick together, it would even account for why Satish is the one person who has said nothing at all to the public.

I still believe all are involved, but it is at least a logical inference that thankfully doesn't go on to blame Natalee for her own disappearance because she got in the car willingly with the 3 boys.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Please don't take this as derogatory toward Satish Kalpoe, but is he "slow" or anything? I always get the feeling that he's being protected for some reason...

[boywonder]

Holy closed minds, boywonder! I suppose you work for the FBI and all, huh? Riddle me this...if the FBI had seen/heard/read anything at all that went contrary to JvdS statements, they'd have alerted someone by now, wouldn't they? Of course. You'd have to have your head in the sand to think otherwise.

Posted by: ChinbeardXIV | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:50 AM

The FBI has no jurisdiction whatsoever in Aruba...and to be sure if they did Joran and Pappy would be under the jail now....Look for the FBI to give testimony in the United States...dont think the Van der Sloots are off the HOOK yet...Joran's so stupid....he just gave every judge in America enough cause to hear the civil suit

[Annalisa]

I've been pondering the "leaving her behind on the beach" story for quite awhile and actually believe that it's possible Joran DID in fact leave her behind on the beach. Consider this: perhaps they have a little disagreement...or she vomits from having too much alcohol...or he wants more than she wants to give him...any of a number of scenarios that all end with Joran ditching Natalee on the beach. 17 year old young men (and women I must say) do things like that. They get mad or upset or frustrated and just say "fine...I'm leaving" and leave. Isn't that possible?? Maybe he said "can I drive you back to your hotel?" and by this time she's miffed and says "no...I'll walk". It is a possible scenario. But WHERE ARE YOUR SHOES, JORAN??? I just haven't been able to fit that into any scenario yet. Anyone else??

[sunshine]

Vivi:6. Joran admitted to having sexual contact with Natalee (I believe, not sure). Joran now states there was no sexual contact.

No he didn't. He said something in dutch which you translated it into having sex.

[xxx]

I have no problem believing Joran could have left Natalee on the beach either awake or passed out cold.

But, if that is true, it doesn't explain all of the subsequent behavior.

Why does he have mulitple versions of how he got home from the beach?

Why does Deepak 'coincidentally' need to clean out his car of ANTS that very same night?

Why did they wait until they were thrown in jail to change their story?

Leaving a passed out girl on the beach makes you an idiot and an ass, but it doesn't come close to being suspected of kidnapping, rape and murder or of leaving open the possibility that based on your lies innocent men might go to prison.

[ChinbeardXIV]

The FBI has no jurisdiction whatsoever in Aruba...and to be sure if they did Joran and Pappy would be under the jail now....Look for the FBI to give testimony in the United States...dont think the Van der Sloots are off the HOOK yet...Joran's so stupid....he just gave every judge in America enough cause to hear the civil suit

Posted by: boywonder | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:58 AM

So, basically, you're telling me that you think if JvdS and company never came to the US that the FBI would have just sat on whatever evidence they have--uh--according to you? Sorry, boywonder, but I think your blinders are on a little snug this morning...

[ChinbeardXIV]

Leaving a passed out girl on the beach makes you an idiot and an ass, but it doesn't come close to being suspected of kidnapping, rape and murder or of leaving open the possibility that based on your lies innocent men might go to prison.

Posted by: xxx | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 09:13 AM

But, xxx, when you're 17-21, you don't think like you do when you're 25. It's a fact.

[mem]

Where is the footage of them leaving? Is there any footage of them even talking to each other?

Still no proof.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 02:57 AM

That is what i was asking myself, ABC was supposed to air a something like a bomb, but i think they back off after having Beth Twitty on the phone a day before, this is my personal believe that they got intimidated

[xxx]

But, xxx, when you're 17-21, you don't think like you do when you're 25. It's a fact.
______________

That is making excuses for something that is inexcusable. How many days in your view does it take a 17-21 year old to realize the missing girl is not going to show up? Or do you believe that 17-21 year olds don't possess the requisite empathy to care about this?

[Annalisa]

xxx, I personally think that we shouldn't generalize. I think that JORAN does not possess the empathetic capacity to care at all sincerely about what happened to Natalee. That has also bothered me from the beginning and certainly since seeing the interview on Nova. He's much more concerned about what this has all brought about in HIS life...in HIS schooling...in HIS further career possibilities and reputation. Sounds a bit self-absorbed as best but most likely more pathalogical in the sense of narcissism. If he is innocent and really did leave her on the beach and he WAS empathetic, he should be back on Aruba dedicating the rest of his life and all of his earnings to finding her, her body and/or who killed her.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Taking into consideration that this is a "pleasure isle" (if you will), where 18 year olds are of legal drinking age--AND--that 124 (+/-) of them are (for the most part) without chaperones, I'd say that 3 or 4 days would be the max. Unfortunately, I think BHT immediately started pointing the finger at JvdS (with help, of course) and caused him to put up the defensive wall full of lies. I'm not convinced that he's covering up a drugging/rape/murder/disposal...just that he's trying to distance himself from the fact that the girl is missing and he's one of the last KNOWN to have seen her.

[splashtc]

oh pleeese. He already admitted to having sex with her on the first night Beth and co. arrived.
They can't prove murder so now the little sc_mbag is trying to get off on the rape charge. I don't know how Beth refrains from slapping his smug face. I'd like to see the whole family prosecuted for conspiracy.

[hardyandtiny]

And how can you kill someone AND hide the body in such a short time span? The body would then be somewhere nearby, and it is very strange in my opinion that advanced 'finding-technology' (as I call it) cannot find the body then.
Posted by: Student | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:06 AM
I don't know...seems like the Kalpoes are clear as far as not being "there". Why would the Kalpoes break down and tell the beach drop-off story if one of them, or both of them, had gone back to the beach or anywhere else? Most likely the Kalpoes DID leave Joran and Natalee, and they never went back to them, but I'm not convinced that they left them "alone". The details of the Holiday drop-off story are very odd- she fell down, she was drunk, etc...And I remember Mrs. Kalpoe recounting to GVSusteren what her sons had said; they told their mother that Natalee was VERY drunk, VERY drunk. But now we're told she was not that drunk and no one ever saw her fall down?
Maybe when they were driving around they met some other people, some friends, and someone mentioned that they were going for a party cruise on a boat. Natalee got excited about it and wanted to go. They dropped Joran and Natalee off at the fisherman huts about 120am, the boat pulled in at 230am, Nat got on, Joran went home.
Maybe those guys on the boat are tough guys and J2K are afraid of them.

She got into a car with three strangers and so why wouldn't she get on the boat with three more - maybe there were other women on the boat?

It would be easy for the Kalpoes to stick to that story and disassociate from the boat, and Joran could also feel that he did nothing wrong other than leave her with others?

[wreck]

Repeat:
Follow some logic --
Here after 9 months, the Kalpoes and Joran have a major descrepancy in their stories. The Kalpoes claim they were both at home and did NOT take Joran home. Joran says Satish drove him home. At least one of the three is lying -- but which one? I submit to you that the one telling the truth would rat out the one lying to save their own skin. Why after all this time and with jail stays for each; has this not happened?

Logic tells me it is because NONE of the three can afford for the truth to come out. I believe all THREE have some degree of culpability.

Posted by: wreck | Wednesday, February 22, 2006 at 11:35 PM

[ChinbeardXIV]

Careful, splashtc, you can't believe everything that's passed along...

Annalisa, just to clarify, why should he overly concerned about a person he barely knew. I know it sounds callous, but I don't think he'd had time to develop any feelings. You know?

[hardyandtiny]

Could this be the reason why Natalee kept going out of the casino, to keep making calls?
Posted by: Donna | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 08:34 AM
She kept going out and making calls? What makes you say that?

[xxx]

So, he left her passed out on the beach, and he thinks maybe she woke up in the middle of the night and hooked up with someone else or went to a crack house? How the hell is Natalee going to find a crack house in the middle of the night? Who is she going to hook up with at 3am on the beach?

But my biggest reason for not believing it is that his story changed on how he got home, he can't account for what happened to his shoes.

[Robin Tyra]

Now you are becoming stupid. Turning what is to what you want it to be does not make it true.

Joran marked her as a target. When CnC closed , he collected her. People like Joran do not make their target based on looks as you imply. Rape is not about sex. It is about power , control, inducing fear.
Joran could not have been Natalee's target because he had nothing she wanted. Nothing for her to gain.

Posted by: Skye | Wednesday, February 22, 2006 at 02:20 PM

Go ahead and call me names all you like Skye. Funny how you were lecturing about name-calling yesterday, though. Odd.

Still, and once again, you are arguing from a point of very faulty logic and a serious lack of ethics. "Rape?" That hasn't been proven Skye, therefore your argument about it being a crime of power is full of holes.

From all indications Natalee was an absolutely willing partner. That does not constitute rape.

[xxx]

Except all the "indications" are coming from those who are suspected of raping her...so they pretty much lack all credibility unless you assume getting in a car with someone counts as pre-consent to have sex with everyone in the car....apparently some do believe that, but I don't.

[hardyandtiny]

Logic tells me it is because NONE of the three can afford for the truth to come out. I believe all THREE have some degree of culpability.

Posted by: wreck | Wednesday, February 22, 2006 at 11:35 PM

Joran will stay with his last story because he knows that it leads the police to a dead end. Why change the stories? If they all stay where they are they are free unless the police find new evidence. Lies or not, they will stay with the stories that got them out of jail

[wreck]

Joran will stay with his last story because he knows that it leads the police to a dead end. Why change the stories? If they all stay where they are they are free unless the police find new evidence. Lies or not, they will stay with the stories that got them out of jail

Posted by: hardyandtiny | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 09:44 AM

You make my point. At this point they THINK they "beat the system."

[Annalisa]

Chinbeard: you're right but I would all of the sudden develop a huge interest in this woman if I were all of the sudden being accused of kidnapping, rape and murder! I would be out there trying to find out what DID happen to her. I would be completely guilt-ridden if I were the last known person to have been seen with her. He just doesn't come across as being guilt-ridden at all. It's like Natalee was expendable. Consumer goods. That, I find very frightening.

[xxx]

I always thought it was extremely flawed reasoning that the Kalpoes were let out of jail because their stories matched each other.

Seems like a big "duh" of course they do, they live in the same house, they had nothing but time to make sure every detail matched.

[BobbyTrendy]

Joran and the Kalpoes did everything they could to stay of the radar screen early on during this mess. Not by way of being themselves and going about their daily business, but by giving conflicting statements. That speaks volumes.

[dnichols]

Joran admitted in this interview that he left C& C's to have sex with Natalie...that was his intent, we don't know what Natalie was thinking, but I personally doubt if it was to have sex with this guy, I think it was because she thought they were taking her to see the lighthouse, and did not know they were going to force sex on her.

Joran stated he did not have a condom in his wallet... this is where I believe the Kalpoe brothers come in, in the car and forced sex. Why else clean the car at 3:00am? Blood on Joran's shoes...blood in car...

What if she had threatend going to the police for being raped, maybe that is why they killed her, to keep her from turning them in.

There is a lie involving the beach because it would have been easier to say they left her at the beach, which would have been something hard to confirm, than leaving her at the hotel. Joran knows something happened to Natalie at the beach and he was covering it up in the first hours, that is why he lied...and continues to lie.

[ChinbeardXIV]

Except all the "indications" are coming from those who are suspected of raping her...so they pretty much lack all credibility unless you assume getting in a car with someone counts as pre-consent to have sex with everyone in the car....apparently some do believe that, but I don't.

Posted by: xxx | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 09:42 AM

Where's the proof or evidence of no consent??? That's all I'm getting at, xxx...the burden of proof is on the prosecution, so to speak.

[xxx]

I AGREE.

The level of detail in the first lie shows it was not innocent.

If he was just embarrassed why didn't he say he left her at the beach where she was talking/waving/walking away with some Americans he assumed were her classmates? This gets him off the hook, since he left her with other people in would be more of a little white lie than a giant whale of a lie.

[xxx]

Without a body, an admission by someone either the suspects or someone they told or a prior pattern of sexual assaults there is no way to prove non-consent.

Especially since he isn't even admitting to sex, so you would then have to prove that sex did take place and that it was non-consensual.

But, remember, what is true and what is provable are not the same thing.

[hardyandtiny]

You make my point. At this point they THINK they "beat the system."

Posted by: wreck | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 09:46 AM

They are innocent till proven guilty. It's a terrible situation. Joran SEEMS guilty but we have to protect his rights - our rights. He's innocent.

[ChinbeardXIV]

But, remember, what is true and what is provable are not the same thing.

Posted by: xxx | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 10:07

What is true and what is reasonably inferred to be true, those are different. I don't think we can reasonable infer that Miss Holloway gave no consent, gave consent, or even had sex at this point.

[Lisa]

Few questions: Was it ever confirmed that they went back to Joran's house?

Has it been confirmed that Joran's shoes are missing?

Someone tell me how someone disappears WITHOUT a trace?

What info does anyone have on Satish? Deepak? Why are they so quiet?

[Bobby Trendy]

People often subconsciously give away clues without them even knowing it, and I think they did in this case as well. The lighthouse gets mentioned a lot as a sightseeing spot, something about going to see sharks, the topic of sex was discussed, etc. We now hear about the condom excuse why they didn't have sex - something I think he thought of as a strategy for his defense. Judge Judy would say: "baloney, you're making it up as you're going along!" I couldn't have said it better myself.

[hardyandtiny]

Why else clean the car at 3:00am? Blood on Joran's shoes...blood in car...
Posted by: dnichols | Thursday, February 23, 2006 at 09:56 AM

Come on, that's all hearsay/ rumor, there's no proof of those things.

[jgirl]

Dan, I think your theory is a good one. I dont think Joran is capable of murder either, and if Natalee died with the boys, I think it was accidental,
and all of the lies are out of fear. They may have been so messed up they don't remember every fact also. The cleaning of the car at the odd hour, points to something out of the ordinary also.