Grieving Father Challenges The Washington Post

On Tuesday, January 3 the Washington Post published an Op Ed entitled A Life Wasted. Subtitled Let's Stop This War Before More Heroes Are Killed, the op ed was penned by Paul Schroeder, the Father of Lance Cpl. Edward "Augie" Schroeder II who was killed in Iraq back in August.

Now the Father of Sgt. Mike Stokely, a member of the Georgia National Guard who was also killed in Iraq in August is requesting equal time. His letter offers a significantly different perspective on his loss, than the loss of Paul Schroeder.

The point is not does one parent's position somehow invalidate the others - both parents are certainly entitled to their particular point of view. The question is, will the Washington Post display a similar consideration to a parent who feels his loss was not in vain, as they justifiably displayed to a parent who felt otherwise. We'll have to wait and look to the Washington Post for the answer to that question.

Robert Stokely, who's son Michael was killed in Iraq, has given me permission to post and distribute his letter to the Post, in hopes of gaining some traction in getting it published. Most of the letter was originally published at Mudville Gazette on Christmas Eve, and touched me when I read it. That was why I contacted him about the Posts piece yesterday.

For now, you can read Robert Stokely's letter here.

Comments

[Crazy Politico]

Thank you.

[melissa]

Yeah Dan. So many parents of these guys gone dead are going to say its for the better good. So what if they went thinking that it was for something else. So what if our president is a fricken liar, no problem. I will sacrifice my own for an illiterate moron who is backing a completely corrupt party, because hey, the Dems are not strong right now, and they are just as bad right?.

Yeah, If I was the parent I would be right with you right now.

Its one thing being a conservative hon, completely another to think that our president is anything less than shady and worthy of looking into at the very least.

Says THIS moderate anyway :)

[SondraK]

Jebus....no matter what the topic SOMEONE has to get in a Bush jab.

Thanks for the provocative post and for sharing, Dan. This is reason number one why I blog...the squeaky wheels already have a megaphone. And a real shitty attitude too.

Glad you're on our team. POSITIVEly.

[TheAlamo]

Actually I feel for both of those men. Both letters had good points. My son is due to get out of there in three weeks, and I cannot wait until he does.
I think all soldiers are honorable and deserve our respect. All of their sacrifices have meaning, whether the "conflict" they are in does, or does not. I lost 5 friends in Vietnam, and though the "war" was not worth it, I still think they were just as much deserving of honor as any soldiers in any other war. Theirs is not the politics, theirs is to do the dying for those playing the politics.

My thoughts about this war are simple. Send enough troops over there to get the job done, because as it stands now, it is becoming another Vietnam, where they clear a village one day, then leave it for the enemy to take again. If I recollect, that was the story behind the deaths of one of these two soldiers. 100,000 troops there is not enough. The Iraqi army is years away from being able to stand on their own. If the government intends to stay the course, then send enough to get it done and over with.
Otherwise, the public outcry against it will continue to grow.

I think we never should have been in Iraq in the first place. We put Saddam in power. We could have taken him out without an invasion. If John Kennedy can be hit, then anyone else can as well. However I am mixed about staying. If we are there to win and get the job done, then do it. If they plan to make this another Vietnam experience as is the history of our government in every conflict since WW2, then why see more killed?

There ought to be an international law that requires soldiers to be over 50 years of age. Most people that age are smart enough to know that all wars are because one group of rich guys wants to steal the goodies from another group of rich guys. Let the leaders fight duels instead of sending others to do it for them.

[melissa]

Yet another reason not to like SK lol.

[melissa]

Alamo, you said it in the same terms. With the exception that if it not for the lies we wouldnt be over there.

I really wish people would stop thinking that because Bush lied and I do not WISH to just get over it, because lets face it, he wasnt lying about a blow job, that I am not a bad person. I love our troops, I love my country. And I am not a fricken liberal just because I can see facts.

I just dont like our president. Those that wish to call me a liberal because you think that he is above anything else can get over yourselves IMO.

[SondraK]

Obviously I'm in good company, Melissa.
And why so negative? Your life suck that bad, hon?
Yannow, that's how you can tell a Libtard, by all them frown lines. They're soooo unbecoming. And it takes so much more work for so many more muscles.
Your poor face....sigh.....

[melissa]

I have great company Sondra. And I dont have to whore myself to get it.

How much work did it take to get someone to take a picture of your ass to sell for votes?

My life is cool, has its ups and downs. Mostly ups. Because I like who I am and dont sell myself hon.

And like I said, I am hardly a liberal. But you seem to "simplify" if thats possible whats left of the right corrupt wing.

[SondraK]

mellissa with a small m, why do you hate me so??? Why have you barged into my space....you never really properly introduced yourself but yet you seem to think you know so much about me. Sigh....me and my W,we're so alike. Is why I love my fearless leader so.

And hon, you're very very VERY gullible.

Am I the only person who finds you entertaining,........missy?

[Dadsaherotoo]

What a great father. Thank you so much for posting that. He is also a "hero" for
sharing how he feels with others and I am
"sure" there are "more" than less that feel
the same way this father feels.
God bless him always.

[melissa]

oh..well..
I am sorry that I am so stupid. I guess I do not like Bush because I just want to go with the flo.
He has not done anything to me and I really think he cute.
He is probably actually no doubt a good man.
I know he is trying his best to do all he can to help this country be safe from terrorists on our land. It would be horrible if we here in the United States had to live in fear everyday like they do in Israel.
I am sorry I sounded so much like a total idiot.
I see from other posts here there are also other idiots. Idiots are just what they are IDIOTS.
Guess it is a disease. Hope there is a cure soon.

[Jack Hamilton]

I read the post of Melissa and f0or the life of me I will never understand the vile hate that is contained in there words. I really dont think they know what a lie is or either they read it from a rag like the NY times and believe it with out researching the facts.The truth is the President did not lie about a damn thing nor can they give an example where he did.This man is doing what has to be done to keep this country safe from another attack. Fighting the terrorist as well as it can be done. He is also having to fight the democrats at the same time whose only concern is to try and regain power even if it cost the lives of more of our troops. All anyone has to do is check with those that have been there in Iraq or many of those that are there now.We are winning in Iraq and winning big. It will not be long till most of the troops can be removed because the Iraqi's will be able to defend themself.Democracy will have a foothold in the middle east. The one thing that will work to ensure our safty more than anything else. But some people are just to blinded with hate to care. God help these miserable people.

[Jack Hamilton]

I read the post of Melissa and f0or the life of me I will never understand the vile hate that is contained in there words. I really dont think they know what a lie is or either they read it from a rag like the NY times and believe it with out researching the facts.The truth is the President did not lie about a damn thing nor can they give an example where he did.This man is doing what has to be done to keep this country safe from another attack. Fighting the terrorist as well as it can be done. He is also having to fight the democrats at the same time whose only concern is to try and regain power even if it cost the lives of more of our troops. All anyone has to do is check with those that have been there in Iraq or many of those that are there now.We are winning in Iraq and winning big. It will not be long till most of the troops can be removed because the Iraqi's will be able to defend themself.Democracy will have a foothold in the middle east. The one thing that will work to ensure our safty more than anything else. But some people are just to blinded with hate to care. God help these miserable people.

[Crazy Politico]

Dan,

I just want to thank you again for the link, you've sent a lot of readers of the letter over to my place. Hopefully a few are clicking the link to submit a letter to the Post.

For your commenters here, this has nothing to do with Bush, or one parent being right or wrong. This was started, and is only about, asking the Post to be balanced in their coverage.

Mr. Schroeder, who wrote "A Life, Wasted" is as entitled to his opinion, and has earned that entitlement, as Mr. Stokely is to his. I'd just like to see the press present both opinions.

I feel deeply for both these men, as I've lost friends in combat, and have carried the dead and dying from a terror attack in 1983.

Neither is wrong or right, they are both fathers of fallen heroes, who have a different point of view on this topic, that is all.

[MrsLevy]

Most soldiers are poor, uneducated kids who couldn't get a job in the private sector. They settled for government work.

They're not heros, they're lackeys. And they make me so freakin hot I could scream. But then no one's been near my natty old rough patch for three decades and prospects ain't looking too good. Maybe I need me one of them Burkas. I never shoulda went through the eighties without wearing my bra. (sigh)

Ed Note: This comment was edited for content by the site administrator to make it more in keeping with site decorum.

[*flo*]

Most soldiers are poor, uneducated kids who couldn't get a job in the private sector. They settled for government work.

They're not heros, they're lackeys.

Posted by: MrsLevy | Jan 5, 2006 10:41:39 AM

MrsLevy, why even bother posting such nonsense?

[COLUMBO]

Most soldiers are poor, uneducated kids who couldn't get a job in the private sector. They settled for government work.

They're not heros, they're lackeys.

now there's an elitist remark if ever there was one....these poor, uneducated kids do pretty well with computers, lasers, infrared, etc, etc, etc....probably posted by someone who cannot program a VCR

[COLUMBO]

other 'uneducated lackeys':

Colin Powell
George H.W. Bush
Dwight Eisonhower
George Washington
Ted Williams

[callmeBetty]

>They're not heros, they're lackeys.

Does that make them expendable? While military service may be good career training for kids without the resources needed to get a good education or marketable skills, it's demeaning to diminish their value in this way. Besides being patently untrue.

My nephew is the kindest, smartest and most respectful 18 year old I have ever met. From a good Catholic family. An accomplished rugby player and a good student - accepted to a good private college. He signed up for the Marines right after high school graduation.

He is one of America's best and brightest........but even I couldn't talk him out of it.

[greenwing]

When one denigrates the war, one also denigrates the troops, both collectively and individually.

These men entered the service voluntarily to do what they felt was their duty. They deserve the respect of every American.

Thank you for posting this Dan. Doubt we will see it on the front page of the Post.

[SondraK]

Levy-who-doesn't-deserve-the-respect-of-a-title-other-than-festering-boil:

How about this guy??? I'm sure if you got your face out of Michael Moore's fat folds you could easily find more examples....
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id%3d110007681

[MCPO Airdale]

MrsLevy -
How many military people do you know? The percentage of those with a high school diploma is higher in the military than it is in the general population. All officers and the majority of enlisted members above the rank of E-6 have college degrees. After my military career, I worked with a major IT integration firm as a program manager starting at over $60K a year.

I own a home, have sent a son to a major university and continue to contribute to society. So, what is your problem?

Oh yeah and melissa. . . denial is more than just a river in Egypt!

[callmeBetty]

>When one denigrates the war, one also denigrates the troops, both collectively and individually.

It's manipulative statements like this that accomplish nothing but hate.

[Sgt. York]

Fignting and dying in a desert sh1thole so SCIRI, al-DAWA, and the Sadrists can create an oppressing Islamic state. Good times.

Does anyone really believe that Iraq will end up as a shining example of freedom and democracy in the middle east?

---------------
Abuse worse than under Saddam, says Iraqi leader
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1651789,00.html
---------------

[callmeBetty]

Sorry, that's your opinion, greenwing - I don't mean you personally. Your statement was a little too close to the type of position parroted by the WH press corp when faced with similar anti-war sentiments.

Pisses me off.

[TheAlamo]

An accomplished rugby player and a good student - accepted to a good private college. He signed up for the Marines right after high school graduation.

He is one of America's best and brightest........but even I couldn't talk him out of it.

Posted by: callmeBetty | Jan 5, 2006 12:04:06 PM

Ah, rugby. I played that game for 9 years after getting out of college. What a blast. Much more fun than football because anyone can run with the ball. I played linebacker in football, so rarely got hold of the ball....but rugby...should be a requirement! :)

[SondraK]

"Sgt" York...the story you provide to back up your very poorly composed comment specifically states:

Allawi accused fellow Shias in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centres.

It's not the US military he's accusing.

BTW...quoting from The Guardian does nothing to help your argument.

[TheAlamo]

>When one denigrates the war, one also denigrates the troops, both collectively and individually.

And someone said, groupthink is not taught in schools.....uh-huh...

[SondraK]

Alamo....just because a group of people agree on a truth doesn't make it group think. That's retarded.

I'll bet we can all agree here that the color green is green. So?

[callmeBetty]

>I'll bet we can all agree here that the color green is green.

I bet we can't, oh she of the tiny hiney - there are millions of greens and some Will be called Yellow or Blue, lol ;o~

(politics aside, what is ~ ? Took me awhile to find it on the keyboard, is it a satire "soul patch" or beard?

[JonB]

"They're not heros, they're lackeys"

ROFL!!! Oh, now that is just rich. Especially coming from the side who's most rabid members are generally found sitting at Starbucks hours on end whining about how people aren't doing enough to "stop the eeeevil BusHitler regime". Half the rest of them stand around with really stupid signs trying to get seen on national TV spewing the most recent popular vile hatred phrases.

Even if the soldiers were lackeys, at least they make money instead of sitting around on their asses whining about a lack of government freebies like the leftards do.

Oh, and melissa, do the world a favor and kill yourself. Not everyone who visits and/or contributes to SondraK's blog was attracted to it by some sort of whoring. At the very base of it, at the least, you are simply a jealous moron who can't muster half the loyalty that Sondra gets from her readers. It's not about a nice ass in a thong, it's about content. The tail is just an amenity. GFY

[TheAlamo]

Alamo....just because a group of people agree on a truth doesn't make it group think. That's retarded.

I'll bet we can all agree here that the color green is green. So?

Posted by: SondraK | Jan 5, 2006 2:05:58 PM

Sondra, if you would be so kind to read it again with this thought in mind...I was speaking of the writer...not the subject of the sentence.
It's okay...I didn't make it clear enough.

I support the troops but not the war.
It is looking like another Vietnam, which, seems to be the m.o. of our government since WW2. If that is the case then we are wasting lives. Also, as long as the Sunni/Shiite antagonism is kept alive by the media and the leaders of such, then there will be no unity in that nation, and the government there will not survive. Until everyone puts off the label "Sunni" or "Shiite," and becomes an "iraqi," then you will have anger and hatred, similar to what the racial problems were here in times past. The difference between the two is that here the acts of terrorism were rare. There, it is some kind of idiotic honor to blow yourself up. How do you fight that?

Secondly, if they set up a "democracy" then all that does is exacerbate the situation since in a democracy majority rules. Whoever is in the majority will run roughshod over the minority, and that minority will fight them.
If they had set up a republic where majority rule is not an issue, like the United States used to be....then the country could thrive even with its diversity. But my guess is that we will never know that, since everyone loves the term "democracy." Shows the success of the public school system in de-education.

[COLUMBO]

I just dont like our president. Those that wish to call me a liberal because you think that he is above anything else can get over yourselves IMO.

IMO-anyone chosing to ignore the prewar quotes attributed to members of the democratic party in order to call Bush a liar....is a liberal. Anyone chosing to ignore the FACT that our intelligence community conclusions mirrored those of Israel, Russia, Egypt, France (yes, France!), and the UK, among others....all in order to isolate the president as the only person on the planet to believe that there were WMD there-is delusional. Now, let's suppose for a minute-what if Saddam, constrained by U.N. resolutions (17), mobilized assets in a neighboring country in a clandestine effort to develop such weapons? Suppose then we find this out, contact the leader in that country, tell him to watch TV tomorrow morning....and then he turns on the TV only to see Saddam pulled from his hole. What would a leader do in this hypothetical scenario? Well, pure speculation on my part, but, I'd say those weapons would probably be in the possession of the DOE, perhaps stored in New Mexico. Purely hypothetical of course......and the reason? The U.S. military.

[SondraK]

callmebetty....I think it's a raspberry :~

callmeal;)

[A3K]

"MrsLevy" appears to be an ideological twin of that fellow with the inverted genitalia who bragged about his getting nailed by men while trying to woo a girl. In other words, someone who for lack of anything of value to say will revert to shock.

And "melissa", calling yourself a moderate means exactly what? You're moderately retarded? Moderately in need of reconstructive facial surgery?

Everyone likes to say they're middle class, but that's not really true. And everyone likes to think they have above average intelligence... But "melissa", this ain't Lake Woebegone. And whether you're a moderate or not, your comments were baseless and pointless.

And frankly, I think Sondra's ass is quite nice, but don't take it into account when I consider her opinion, any more than she takes into account my plus-sized schlong.

[callmeBetty]

....I think it's a raspberry :~

Oh. In that case, ....Can I borrow your airbrush sweetie ? :~

[southern girl]

A3K, looks like melissa needs a bone to smoke

[SondraK]

A3K...I do so!

[A3K]

I always thought you loved my plus-sized brain...

Hmmmmm.

[lwm]

Ah, you are EXACTLY the people I want to hear from. . . . I've never quite understood the idea that if you don't support the war you don't support the troops. (I'm talking about when people publicly question a war or our leadership, not an action such as protesting at a veterans' parade that is directed at the troops.)

Here's my thinking: When we are at war, or considering engaging in conflict, it's the public's grave responsibility to make sure that we are sacrificing our troops, and a considerable amount of money, for good reason. It's my opinion that it's our responsibility to honor their willingness to sacrifice themselves for our country by not putting them in harm's way unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. The soldiers do not make the political decisions--they follow orders.

I know some of us are feeling snarky today, but if anyone cares to offer an honest response, I'd be very interested in reading it.

[SondraK]

lwm...methinks maybe you should speak with a few members of our fine Armed Forces about that question....most I talk with seem to be quite entusiastic and inspired by their endeavors....rather proud actually, of the great things that have been and are being accomplised. But I see that many of you don't hear about most of that. Which brings us back full circle to the point of this post, thank Gawd.

[Dan]

I have a nephew who graduated top of his class from HS - was going to do a full football scholarship to West Point but blew out his knee and chance for the scholarship. Went into a funk for a bit but got his act together, enlisted Army, did a year on the ground and when I saw him at Christmas he just hopes he can get back to Iraq for another tour. He's a computerized air defense specialist but a lot of his deployment was spent in tents, not in a central command.

His current plans are OCS on re-enlistment and he supposedly already has the needed endorsements. His ultimate goal is general officer level, long way away I know - but he could do it, he takes tremendous pride in what is being accomplished in Iraq and his biggest bitch was the news coverage of it here.

poor uneducated lacky? LOL what a effin joke. And he isnt even political for heaven's sake. He simply takes pride in doing "good."

[COLUMBO]

It's my opinion that it's our responsibility to honor their willingness to sacrifice themselves for our country by not putting them in harm's way unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. The soldiers do not make the political decisions--they follow orders.

It wasn't absolutely necessary but if Hitler was confronted in 1937 the lives of millions would have been spared....I'd say if we apply this logic to an enemy that has its sights on acquiring WMD and eliminating entire countries from the map, a cost/benefit analysis will show that the risk of not acting is too great

[southern girl]

lwm

i agree with your statements entirely. my father was forced to go to vietnam at the age of 18, when i was in the womb, only to return to having vegetables thrown at him. and today? he's fubar.
War has been a part of human culture since time began, exccept that our ability to annihilate one another has become largely more effecient, and more destructive than ever. I believe in fighting for independence, but not policing the world. I have some good friends who have done several tours in Iraq and the morale is pretty grim. It helps to carry out orders when the mission is clear. So going back to the Iraqi war, and my views, I really don't think the US has any business conjuring up conflict for the sake of global democracy. The islamic culture is something we don't understand at all. How many americans do you know that truly understand the concept of Jihad? Pregnant women willing to sacrifice their lives to knock out an american or two?

I say stay out of it all together. If a country is under dictoral leadership, so be it. It's none of our business.

[SondraK]

southerngirl...ever see a person with rat-poisoned nails perforate their body?

Take a look some time...that's what a large pop of peeps want to do to all of us.

I think the bigger picture of the mission is quite clear for those who get it. That's trademarked, btw.

Too many people have been spoiled by instant gratification. Sigh.....

This is a volunteer Military...and anyone who signed up for the bennies also read the fine print...IE: combat is possible. To pretend that risk didn't exist is unfortunate for "your friends". I'm sorry that they "pulled the short straw" and didn't get to do their duty peacetime/stateside if that's what they wanted to do...

Willing to knock out an American "or two????!!!"
What rock have you been under?

[TheAlamo]

Here's my thinking: When we are at war, or considering engaging in conflict, it's the public's grave responsibility to make sure that we are sacrificing our troops, and a considerable amount of money, for good reason. It's my opinion that it's our responsibility to honor their willingness to sacrifice themselves for our country by not putting them in harm's way unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. The soldiers do not make the political decisions--they follow orders.

I know some of us are feeling snarky today, but if anyone cares to offer an honest response, I'd be very interested in reading it.

Posted by: lwm | Jan 5, 2006 3:58:27 PM

This is well put. Traditionally, the United States was not an antagonistic nation. Unfortunately, our people and our leaders are not the same. If you check history you will find that every war since the civil war was been the result of lies by that current government in place at the time.
In two of the last three "wars" victory was denied our soldiers by the very government that sent them there in the first place. They all had the same "rhetoric" as this government does, and as it stands today, the results are working out to be the same. If our government intends to go to war, then the following should be done. First and actual declaration of war by congress, as is mandated by law. (don't bother with the "resolution bit--they are entirely different). Second, go to win. Get the thing done and over with, instead of dragging it out year upon year like Vietnam was...and Korea still is. The same thing is occurring in Iraq that occurred in Vietnam. We clear a town or village, then leave it and the bad guys are back the next day. In Vietnam, they were told to take this hill or that...then two days later left it and gave it back to the enemy. Then, they were told to take it again. This is not sanity. This is at best ignorance, and there is even the possibility of worse.
Go to war? Then send enough troops to win the damn thing and get it over with. Forget "policing" the world.
"policing" the world is not our responsibility, nor is the structure of government of other soverign nations.
The world does not see us as "policing" nations, they see it as American imperialism...and that is being bared out in many foreign news services.

The soldiers deserve all of our backing, and support, as they always have, and should. They do not decide the politics, they just die.
The terrorists are backed by communist weapons and communist financial support. If we really want to get this thing done right, then as I have stated before, forget the puppies, spay the momma dog.

[Sgt. York]

------------------

RE: "Allawi accused fellow Shias in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centres. It's not the US military he's accusing.

THAT WAS MY POINT DINGBAT. I wrote: "Fighting and dying in a desert sh1thole so SCIRI, al-DAWA, and the Sadrists can create an oppressing Islamic state... Does anyone really believe that Iraq will end up as a shining example of freedom and democracy in the middle east?"

------------------

RE: "quoting from The Guardian does nothing to help your argument."

I WASN'T QUOTING THE GUARDIAN. I linked to an interview of Iraq's first Prime Minister. Is is Ayad Allawi who is asserting that Iraq is A sh1t hole rampant with corruption, murder, and torture. Ayad Allawi - not an OpEd in the Guardian. Feel free to write to Allawi and tell him to pick a different newspaper for his next interview ['cuz that ain't my doing].

------------------

[southern girl]

sondraK

i hide under lots of rocks actually---but
i was speaking euphemistically of course. I candidly remember that one pregant woman at the start of the war blew herself up and only knocked out one american and injured another. I would think anyone in their right mind that had the notion of suicide as a weapon would want to maximize their efforts...

[The Ugly American]

I say stay out of it all together. If a country is under dictoral leadership, so be it. It's none of our business.

Wow....now why didn't *I* think of that!!!

--Harold Russell

[lwm]

Sondra, thanks for your (first) response. I didn't quite understand it, but I think that's because we're considering different aspects of this conversation. The best response I can give is that I grew up in a military town and currently have a close friend in the army who does not support this war, but who continues to serve his country nonetheless.

I think I got somewhat of an answer from Dan in his comment about a major gripe being all the negativity in the news. I don't want to put words in his mouth, so I'll just say I can see how it is demoralizing to see people protest against what you are proudly fighting for.

However, I still think it's important to address questions about the legitimacy of any war. Most of the kids I know who have joined up were actually poor, uneducated and felt they had no other options, but I think the comments some have made above are unfair. What I've heard from some of them is that they're not in it to be politicians, they hope/trust we're there for the "right" reasons("there" for them was Iraq a few years ago, as well as in present day) .

Also, just to be clear, my question is regaring the sentiment that if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. I disagree, but am curious as to why people say that.