And Then There's The Law

There's something of a debate going on between left and right when it comes to giving the children of illegal aliens certain benefits as regards college tuition. You can read one view from the right here at Wizbang and click through The Moderate Voice for a more liberal view.

Call it ADD, or the Gordian Knot approach to solving many issues - what about the Law? We purport to be a nation of law - we elevate principles even above people, codify them into law and allegedly use them to guide our society. At least that's how it is supposed to work in theory. Once we begin to skirt, re-shape, or fail to follow our laws as a country, we begin to undermine the very fabric of the Republic.

The first word in illegal alien is, if I'm not mistaken, illegal. And so long as that holds true, I don't need to do a lot of political calculation to arrive at decisions about how I feel on issues impacting same. Get legal, or get out, or be put out. Respect the law if you want the law, and also importantly, my tax dollars to respect and support you.

Call it the Keep It Simple Stupid approach, or call it what you will. I prefer calling it upholding the law. And I believe we should.

Comments

[SINcerely]

I have to agree here Dan. Illegal is illegal and should not be beyond the laws. Every January I have to produce copies of my tax returns, when I file for financial aid for my kids education. I am also asked if myself and my children have been residents of our state for over four years. I have no objection to a child seeking to better their selves above their parents. What I do object to is being a tax payer and supporting those that do not contribute.

[thealamo]

Excellent article and commentary on the subject. It seems we have two classes in this society today. Those who make laws forget to obey them themselves, and yet, they pass ever increasing burdens upon their own people, who, of course, make up the second class. Unfortunately, the "governing class" has exactly that opinion of the rest...second class.

[shonane]

I agree, illegal alien is ILLEGAL. No scholarship that were intended for citizens.

[Sgt. York]

The border should be sealed. Anyone apprehended illegally entering th country should spend six-months in jail for the crime and then deported. Employers who knowingly hire illegals should also see prison time.

But that won't happen as both DEMS & REP politicians do the bidding of companies - and companies want the cheap labor [which pushes down real wages for workers].

However, if the child of an illegal is born on US soil, that kid is a US citizen - per US CONSTITUTION - and should get the same education benefits as any citizen.

============================

[ViVi]

Problem is children of illegal aliens who are born here are legal.

However, THAT needs to be changed, and there's a big debate going on in Texas about that issue, amending the 13th amendment. Not that it's a Texas issue---that's just where I've been listening to the debate.

[Muirnin]

JMO here......

It really pisses me off that a pregnant illegal alien can get FULL medical coverage during her pregnancy while in the US...yet a citizen of the US can't get shit.....

Something wrong with that picture.

It encourages illegal aliens to come here and get pregnant! I don't know about other states, but in the State of Maryland.......on their website, they assure you that they will not contact INS, if you are pregnant and illegal........sad but true!

Muir

[thealamo]

JMO here......

It really pisses me off that a pregnant illegal alien can get FULL medical coverage during her pregnancy while in the US...yet a citizen of the US can't get shit.....

Something wrong with that picture.

Posted by: Muirnin | Sunday, January 15, 2006 at 10:14 PM

Damn sure is. You ought to live down here.
I took my little girl to the dentist the other day, and the waiting room was filled with illegals...on medicaid...getting free dental care. Had to wait for them first, then when finished got handed a bill for $223. I asked the receptionist why I had to pay, but the illegals did not. She just shook her head.
Our country is being destroyed by these people and the government is all too eager to support it.

[CitizenDick]

Didn't President Bush want to make the illegal Mexicans and Cubans legal?

[thealamo]

Didn't President Bush want to make the illegal Mexicans and Cubans legal?

Posted by: CitizenDick | Sunday, January 15, 2006 at 11:58 PM

Yes...and that isn't over yet, they will try again.

[Muirnin]

Damn sure is. You ought to live down here.
I took my little girl to the dentist the other day, and the waiting room was filled with illegals...on medicaid...getting free dental care. Had to wait for them first, then when finished got handed a bill for $223. I asked the receptionist why I had to pay, but the illegals did not. She just shook her head.
Our country is being destroyed by these people and the government is all too eager to support it.

Posted by: thealamo | Sunday, January 15, 2006 at 11:03 PM

Geeze Alamo.........

Sorry to hear that! Free dental care too? I never even got that with an employer!!!!

That is absolutely ridiculous....an insult to American citizens!

I'm not normally an aggressive, hostile person....but lately I've been wishing for a "shoot to kill" policy for anyone crossing the border. Isn't that awful that I am being driven to this state of mind????

BTW, where do you live....you mentioned "down here". I live in Maryland, but I'm sure all the illegals are getting better care than us, no matter what state!

Muir

[NikName]

It sucks. Contact your Representatives.

[thealamo]

Geeze Alamo.........

Sorry to hear that! Free dental care too? I never even got that with an employer!!!!

That is absolutely ridiculous....an insult to American citizens!

I'm not normally an aggressive, hostile person....but lately I've been wishing for a "shoot to kill" policy for anyone crossing the border. Isn't that awful that I am being driven to this state of mind????

BTW, where do you live....you mentioned "down here". I live in Maryland, but I'm sure all the illegals are getting better care than us, no matter what state!

Muir

Posted by: Muirnin | Monday, January 16, 2006 at 12:42 AM

LOL! Alamo? Hint....

I live about 25 miles north of San Antonio.
And....when it gets below 70 we are cold...you guys are tough, that's all I can say.

[lwm]

Well, there is something to be said for the privilege to complain about losing money to "illegals." Not that you sound pompous or whiny in the way of a spoiled child who must learn to share, but perhaps a bit more compassion for a fellow human being?

I'm not saying it need extend to funding the education or lifestyle of an illegal alien, or even relaxing the law. But when speaking about what it is you've earned, consider that it takes far fewer poor choices for our south-of-the-border friends to live in poverty than it does for those in the U.S.

I always feel it is a failure of some Americans to appreciate all this country affords us with a measure of grace.

[thealamo]

Well, there is something to be said for the privilege to complain about losing money to "illegals." Not that you sound pompous or whiny in the way of a spoiled child who must learn to share, but perhaps a bit more compassion for a fellow human being?

I'm not saying it need extend to funding the education or lifestyle of an illegal alien, or even relaxing the law. But when speaking about what it is you've earned, consider that it takes far fewer poor choices for our south-of-the-border friends to live in poverty than it does for those in the U.S.

I always feel it is a failure of some Americans to appreciate all this country affords us with a measure of grace.

Posted by: lwm | Monday, January 16, 2006 at 03:38 PM

Are you joking here? Surely you are...you jest
I always thought the term ILLEGAL meant....illegal...you know, as in criminal, as in breaking the law. Based upon that mentality, then the racists in the KKK must need our understanding and compassion as well...right?
You associate the theft of our hard earned dollars....by force or the threat thereof, with not appreciating what this country affords us? Uh, when that very country is under assault by people who have no intention of learning our laws, customs and about our Constitution, you are right, they get absolutely no sympathy. Their country is like it is because they are not willing to change it. Instaed, they come here, steal your tax dollars, and then proceed to make the rules as to how they are treated, and then convince persons such as yourself that it is "their right" to have what you have. Karl Marx would be very proud of you..."from each acoording to his ability...to each according to his need."
Yeah...you're right I damn sure don't appreciate a country that denigrates its own citizens in such a way.

[thealamo]

Well, there is something to be said for the privilege to complain about losing money to "illegals." Not that you sound pompous or whiny in the way of a spoiled child who must learn to share, but perhaps a bit more compassion for a fellow human being?

Posted by: lwm | Monday, January 16, 2006 at 03:38 PM

One other quick note. "Privilges" are grants by governments on a selective basis, i.e. communism, fascism, monarchies and the like.
"Grants" are at the whim of your "rulers," therefore the only persons in this country with the right to "grant" privileges is you....not the government. You got it all backwards.

Rights are natural, and not "granted,"--you are born with them and they cannot be taken or infringed upon legally by anyone but yourself....and you can only do that by breaking a law.
In this country, WE grant government the right to work on our behalf. They do not "grant" us anything since legally, they are the lowest person on the totem pole.....government 101.

[lwm]

Wow, I feel you completely missed my point. I'm almost at a loss to reply, so I'll just say that compassion does not require handouts, nor for one to become a Marxist.

And in what way did I say that the government grants you privilege? I said it is your privilege to complain, and there is something to be said about being able to do that. Maybe I was too off topic?

[thealamo]

Okay, I stand corrected. Sometimes you can misinterpret intentions...
my apologies...no harm intended.

[lwm]

Lol, that's what happens when I try to be a contrarian. I think my irritation is directed more towards a knee jerk reaction to immigrants of both sorts--legal and illegal. Of course, we are talking about *illegal* aliens. But still.

It frustrates me the expectations placed on certain applicants, to include a certain level of education and financial ability. Mm, maybe what I mean is it's far less easy than one would think. You'd be surprised at how deliberately cumbersome and, most troublingly, rife with corruption the process is for some.

That said, the irony is that those immigrants with the means (i.e. education, money, or connections) are those best able to exploit our system, should they choose to. For example, did you know one can rent an apartment with utilities for a month and enroll in an American public school without paying taxes? And this is legal . . . you know, as in not criminal. ;)

[thealamo]

You'd be surprised at how deliberately cumbersome and, most troublingly, rife with corruption the process is for some.

Posted by: lwm | Monday, January 16, 2006 at 10:11 PM

Tell me about it. My wife is from Peru. They want an arm and a leg, and her to jump through 10000 hoops to become a citizen.

Heck I told her to forget it. She has more rights as a legal resident alien than I do as a citizen. The only thing "extra" she would get out of becoming a citizen is the right to vote. Well, the new voting machines have taken care of that one for all of us, so why bother..

It is interesting all this "stamping" and "certified" bull that we have allowed to be put onto people has produced an inertia of the minds of most. Credentials, licensing, certificates etc., and yet the incompetence grows almost exponentially. Seems people would put two and two together.

In my personal opinion all human beings deserve to be treated equally until they prove they do not deserve it by committing a crime. This idea that somehow government personnel are superior beings and they have some sort of innate right to "rule" over others borders on insanity. They specifically have the right to "serve" us, not rule us. Mankind has allowed it to be totally reversed.
As for the illegals, I truthfully think all nations should open their borders, get the hell out of the way and let people trade and interact without this insane "supervision." But both ways--not just them coming here, but us going there as well.

Until someone can show me the biological superiority of someone in a government position from ANY country I will not understand why the rest of mankind just accepts second class status. To me it is disgusting.
There is no such thing as a superior being. Rules and regulations are made to protect society in many ways, and should be agreed upon by those affected in those areas of the world where they are fitting. To have one entity dictating for a vast area is not inefficient, it is bound to lead to corruption, because human nature has not changed one iota in 4000 years.

This is why our country ws founded with a bottom up leadership. Heck, I remember it was only a few years back when the federal government obeyed the law, and the federal agencies had to ask permission of the state entities to come into their terriroty to operate. FBI had to get permission from the locals before they could act. Now, it has been totally turned upside down, just like any other totalitarian country. Very dangerous. Whoever made the statement "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," should be lauded as one of the geniuses of all time. But...who pays attention.