Natalee Holloway: The Fox Template Continues

When not looking like a deer in the headlights tonight on On The Record, ace reporter Greta Van Sustern, who clearly has only ever taken time to learn and report one side of the Natalee Holloway story instinctively fell back on her bash the Aruban ALE theme.

Calling the police force she and her network have been haranguing for months weak, she actually acted surprised that they might cave to pressure from outside forces to try and find a quick resolution to the case - conveniently forgetting that that's precisely what she has been incessantly yammering about their needing to do for months now. It seems no matter what Aruban authorities do, it isn't going to be good enough for ace reporter Greta. What a joke.

One can only imagine what would have happened if the family of Taylor Behl had shown up at VCU the night of her disappearance demanding that authorities accompany them to the home of, say, Ben Fawley. If anything they would have been advised to go home, let alone be accommodated as the Twitty family was in the first of their incessant demands and repeated attempts to interject themselves into an investigation for which they offered no expertise or even basic qualification.

In the Behl case, Fawley went free and was not even named a person of interest for some time while police were doing leg work behind the scenes. The Twitty's made sure that wasn't going to happen in their case by broadcasting far and wide to anyone who would listen that the three boys were under suspicion and needed to be arrested immediately. One can only speculate as to how, if they knew so much better, nothing has come of this case given that the ALE did, in my opinion, go too far in trying to relieve the pressures on it from the family and the tourist industry. Of course, any small tourist town in America would likely have done the same thing and made some of the same mistakes. But why think about that when it is so much more convenient to blame someone else, especially a foreign country.

Of course the only conclusion the misinformed talking heads can draw now is that if the family hadn't done so, nothing would have happened. But that's a straw man argument as no one will ever have the chance to find out now that the Twitty's inability to come to terms with the situation, or accept any outside advice has resulted in such a public mess.

The fact is, their antics have alienated just about everyone in Aruba who ever genuinely tried to help them and dared question them when they began telling inconsistent stories and attempting to inhibit an investigation which needed to look at every aspect of every possibility. But that couldn't be, the arrogance of Mountain Brook, Alabama wouldn't hear of it - and evidently protecting that noble old Southern reputation was more important than trying to find real answers as to what happened to Natalee Holloway.

The fear all along was that if a candid telling of events were to come out America might not have grabbed onto the story as they have, instead seeing it as simply another case of young kids gone wild with one falling into some type of unforeseen event which led to her disappearance. The fact is no one knows if Natalee Holloway was raped and murdered, became a drowning victim after choosing to take a late night swim alone, or simply took her own life by drifting out into an ocean she wouldn't return from on the heels of a trip in which she hay have engaged in some behavior she was afraid she couldn't live down given the sensibilities of some of those around her.

And barring some new revelation or discovery, we'll likely never know. Instead, everyone from the family to the ALE and the media, to the Mountain Brook community itself will end up not looking at themselves and what role they may have played in all of this. Most will simply take the easy way out and continue to blame anyone and everyone else for Natalee's misfortune.

Comments

[ustt]

One can only imagine what would have happened if the family of Taylor Behl had shown up at VCU ...
_____________

Natalee went missing on foreign soil.

Natalee went missing in a place that didn't speak English, couldn't communicate in English to any degree or chose not to (I think it was more the latter!) especially in the early days. Odd how their reps and PR speak much less pigeon English in December than their PR did in June.

Natalee's parents should have had assistance of the US State Department to give both legal help dealing with Dutch law/Aruban hodgepodge law and language barrier!

Natalee's parents were not dealing with the LE of the United States. Taylor's mom was. You better not judge Beth and Dave until you go to a foreign country that has swallowed up your child and see how "easy going and nonchalant" you act with the whole situation.

Taylor's mom was not Beth. Not all people react and can handle losing their child in the same way. I personally would probably have done what Beth did bec that's how I am.

The only fault I find with how Beth and Dave went about this search is I would have bypassed any law enforcement at all, and performed my investigation undercover of both law and media.

I say I would forget LE and media because of how I had already seen the poor Sjodin family treated when they lost Dru. It does no good to get LE involved because they leave the family out of the loop and are rude and arrogant - and most of the time sorely undertrained.

Dave and Beth if you ask me were TOO courteous to Aruba, and should have quit jumping through Aruba's hoops long before they did.

Even now, here come Aruban authorities trying to dictate things - when on Nov 10 Aruban authorities thumbed their nose at the families and said "you gotta get your information from the Hague - joke's on you!" I for one will never lose the impression I have gotten of Aruba after this case and the way they treated Beth and Dave. Never.

Go look at the hx of those Caribbean islands. See how many "solve" the murders that even have taken place this summer. Does the "laid back island attitude" get them answers? Does it?

I hear the argument that Americans must remember they are not dealing with our law in Aruba. Well, a human being is a human being no matter where they inhabit the earth. This island LE didn't give a hoot about this American. And THAT is the point.

I'm not saying all crime is worked the same, in fact it is pitifully investigated. However, is that justification to not do at least one right? So, don't throw up the stale argument that "well, that girl in Duflunky, Arkansas never made the news, why should they cover Natalee?"
If you have parents who are willing and have the capabilities to continue to pursue answers to what happened to their daughter - how does it become OK then to denegrate these parents, just because they continue? How does that become a crime? How does that somehow make them have bad character?

[jkatl]

Greta spent so much time with BHT early on in this tragedy. She saw the hotel room, natalee's packed bags, chased down the Van Der Sloots with Beth in tow, ate meals together, witnessed a mother's grief firsthand, moreso than any other journalist. She spent a weekend in Mountain Brook, hung out at the house, ate dinner with Beth in her home, probably saw Nat's bedroom, pictures on the wall, read Beth's daily journal, witnessed more grieving. In Greta's defense she would almost have to be inhuman to be anything less than at least somewhat emotionally attached. She's human, she's got a heart, you can see it if you watch her show. Her emotional attachment probably has skewed her objectivity with regards to this case, but give her a break; for one, On The Record with GVS is not World News Tonight or Nightly News with Brian Williams for god sake. I like Greta, you can tell she's a decent person, I like her show as well, and so do 2 million+ other people per night.

[ustt]

Posted by: jkatl | Dec 6, 2005 5:16:13 AM

_____

me too jkatl. i like GVS and your points are well made.

[Brooke]

When GVS starts with the NH saga I turn the channel quickly.
I thought the Jeffrey Fieger story was much more interesting.

[Also_Dutch]

@ustt
If I read your post right then your opinion is that Beth and Jug should not respect authorities on a foreign island? Just because they are Americans?

Beth has tried to run the investigation from day one. She too told lies. She even tried to bribe people to give false witness statements! She bases her belief that J2K gangraped her daughter on non excisting documents. She is not even clear on the type of documents she is always talking about, ranging from het own notes to a signed confession!

All I have learned from this case is that there are a lot of Americans out there who lack respect of other countries, cultures and justice systems! I mean it is ok to critize and yes even I believe the ALE made mistakes, but they DID NOT screw up. The media in the States just made up stories to keep the storie going. At one point even Beth talked about an illigitemate half brother of Joran van der Sloot. Turns out that this half brother doesn't even excists! Does this get corrected in the media? NO!

The reason that the ALE is not communicating with Beth is that every time she gets sensitive of confidential info from the ALE she immediately relates them to the US Media, who form their own stories around those facts. Some even don't need facts (like Geraldo), some send in a hasbeen cop who interviews a suspect and then manipulated the audio recordings of that interview. Great, after 8 seconds of tape Dr. Phil could immediately tell that Deepak was a Psychopath.

This case is being tried in America by the Media! These are some of your judges Dr. Phil, Geraldo, Greta van Susteren, Nancy Grace. The Jury are the American Viewers!

Also rude to expect is that everyone on this planet speaks English! Beth and Jug could have hired translators, but like any a lot of Americans they just expected that everybody would understand them. If someone made clear to them that they didn't speak English, they would have just spoke a bit louder!

But now the tables are turned. The ALE never stopped the investigation, the just continued and gotten more leads. Some of them leading away from J2K but heading for Mountain Brook.

But what worries me must is what Beth's secret mission is. What is she going to hit Aruba with next? If people really care for Beth than they should stop her now! Because I think that whatever she is going to do is illegal by Dutch, Aruban AND American standards.

And this is just my opnion!!!

[ustt]

I'm not even going to read your whole diatribe.
Suffice it that you will have the opinion you have had all along, just as I have mine.
My point is, anyone met with the obstacles Beth and Dave had in Aruba would have appeared distraught. (of course their anxieties came across greater than other families with missing loved ones because the media were being whores and using the story to make a buck). You would have been just as distraught too I can just imagine. I can't visualize any parent sitting on their hands at being told, "go have a beer", no matter if it was in Atlanta, Ga or Dubai, Africa.

For some reason everybody who watches TV thinks they now have the right to chime in and condemn these poor people only having half-baked information. We don't know facts. We read internet crap. We hear TV crap. We see rag crap at the checkout line. That's all we have. That's all you have unless you are working on the case in some legal capacity.

I write from my own life experiences and how I would react in the same situation. I can tell you I would be saying Aruban law be damned. I would have been there digging in dumps and in the Arubans faces trying to get answers and if my country chose not to support me - well skrew them.

[boywonder]

Dans just waiting for the hot date with Julie Renfro....

[DoorMart]

Hey I hear Steve Cohen, the new PR spin man for Aruba, is big into porn. Got sued over the www.sex.com website

I wonder if Julia Renfro will report that

Looks like that boycott is working on the Arubes

[berry]

What I want to know, is why did Greta led with the announcement that Natalee supposedly called her mom and told her she had fallen in love (which may have just been silly talk) with a blue eyed Dutch guy.

I heard BT say she never talked to Natalee when she was in Aruba.

Then, at least until I turned off my TV - she never mentioned it again.

I hope the VF piece is honest and does not give Team Twitty a free ride. They do bear some responsibility for this mess. From their van loads of pissed off parents and strong arm tactics to the endorsement of a phony boycott, to the constant yammering about how they have Joran's statement he sexually assaulted an unconscious Natalee, this case reeks of agendas.

Now they have hired, supposedly, John Q. Kelly, who represented the estate of Nicole Simpson. Hopefully he will provide sound legal advice. But the truth is, I smell a lawsuit. I think the Twittys will sue the ALE and the trio.

[berry]

I meant LEAD. Geesh.

[jkatl]

What I want to know, is why did Greta led with the announcement that Natalee supposedly called her mom and told her she had fallen in love (which may have just been silly talk) with a blue eyed Dutch guy.

Greta will almost certainly cover that on tonight's show, she announced at the end of last night's show that Beth will be on tonight to respond to the VF article among other things. Wonder if Greta will bring up the secret mission business. She should. She should ask Beth about making the statement "They don't realize who they messed with"

[ustt]

Now they have hired, supposedly, John Q. Kelly, who represented the estate of Nicole Simpson. Hopefully he will provide sound legal advice. But the truth is, I smell a lawsuit. I think the Twittys will sue the ALE and the trio.

Posted by: berry | Dec 6, 2005 8:17:55 AM

____________

gosh, I hope the Twitty and Holloway families do sue.

[BRAINWOMAN]

Natalee Holoway shud be pute to rest becuz sshe doesnt deseve the treat she got. her mother is only not doing the justce by not letting go. her atiude is warantted becuz she lost her daughtir. there will be no end to this cade

[ustt]

Dans just waiting for the hot date with Julie Renfro....

Posted by: boywonder | Dec 6, 2005 6:49:53 AM

__________

I thought Dan only had eyes for SJ? How do I get so behind in the news?

[Flying Dutchman]

Natalee went missing in a place that didn't speak English, couldn't communicate in English to any degree...

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 4:59:08 AM

You're wrong there! I think that because the Arubans and Dutch speak English very well, the Twitty's had an immediate advantage.
They were informed of the investigation from day one, yet they choose to distort the truth and get in the way of Aruban LE. Apparently this caused for radio silence on behalf of the Aruban LE and that was not to their liking either.

--

My point is, anyone met with the obstacles Beth and Dave had in Aruba would have appeared distraught.

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 6:42:55 AM

As far as I can conclude, the obstacles you mention are all caused by Beth and Jug and the way they decided to treat Aruban LE and others.

No bad words about Dave, he seems honest enough. Too bad he has to deal with the mess his ex-wife caused.

Wonder why they divorced?

[CitizenDick]

...You better not judge Beth and Dave until you go to a foreign country that has swallowed up your child and see how "easy going and nonchalant" you act with the whole situation...

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 4:59:08 AM

There ARE over 78,000 MIA American soldiers from WWII who are still missing. Just like Natalee, they were NOT "swallowed up" by a "foreign country". Their fate was decided by other humans and it's still unknown even with the power of America.

You are still demanding instant gratification and that is often impossible in missing persons cases even in the US.

Atributing her disappearance to another country is absurd.

[Flying Dutchman]

Now they have hired, supposedly, John Q. Kelly, who represented the estate of Nicole Simpson. Hopefully he will provide sound legal advice. But the truth is, I smell a lawsuit. I think the Twittys will sue the ALE and the trio.

Posted by: berry | Dec 6, 2005 8:17:55 AM

Based on.... There is nothing they can base an accusation on.

Where will this case take place?

The US? Why, the US don't recognize any international courts where they might get sued themselves, so how can they sue someone who is not from or in the US?

Aruba then? Don't think so. No evidence, no case. And Dutch legalsystem does not lend itself to a show-processes, like the ones with OJ and MJ in the US.

[MikefrMd]

"What I want to know, is why did Greta led with the announcement that Natalee supposedly called her mom and told her she had fallen in love (which may have just been silly talk) with a blue eyed Dutch guy."

I thought this statement came from Julie Renfro and Holiday Inn employees....wouldn't this make this info kind of tainted....Both sources have only Aruban financial interests in mind. If I remember the Aruba paper that Renfro edits is mostly a tourism paper full of ads for tourist...seems its all about money to them and nothing about Natalee.

[26ANDCOUNTING]

The truth hurts.. Its better being able to make up anything you want for 6 months because people feel bad for you.. Until the time comes were you have crossed a line and enough is enough.. I want the truth not what Beth thinks is the truth.. If shes not being totally honest I want to know.. Beth should not be front and center in this investigation her daughter should be.

[Cheri]

It is sad that this all took these twists and turns....the Twittys are much to blame tho. The way they have injected themselves into this,going to the VDS house that night is the reason Joran says he lied...they went to his school and put up pictures of him, bothered his classmates...try doing that at an American High school!

The "visit" by Beth and Greta to the parents...Beth's "visit" to Deepak's place of work...and then the "tapes">>

Most of what Beth has been saying for the past 2 months was based on the tape apparently....and who knows what is up with that? Most likely manipulated

I think that by allowing Jossy, TJ, Art Woods, Phil and Skeeter, and Joe M into this, Beth has been used and gotten into a vendetta mode.

Now the news that Jug pushed Julia is really shocking....she filed charges on him? and we know Jug "acted up" in Karin J's office....I wonder if he is even welcome back in aruba? He and Beth are never seen together lately...."feisty"?? Yeah, right...

I think the people of aruba are to be commended for holding back as long as they have, Julia should have spoken out but she respected Beth's sorrow too much...now? with the latest threats, the ludicrous boycott, I hope all of aruba stands up to this farce

[moey]

JKATL- I agree with you observations. It is too bad that Greta didn't maintain more of an 'independent' observer; I do think she got too close to the subject and lost her objectivity.

What others have stated is true, we just plain don't know what happened to Natalee and who may or may not have been involved in whatever happened. No one can say for sure if she is off in another country still alive (I doubt it, but it certainly is a possibility). There is absolutely no solid forensic evidence of what happened that night after she left C&C, unless there is evidence that has not been released to the general public.

I really believe that the MB students, parents, school officials and the Twittys have been less than forthcoming about what happened on the trip and since the trip. There is still the mysterious message that Beth originally talked about and then clamed up on and will not discuss it to this day.

I have never believed that these three 'boys' were capable of pulling off the perfect crime, nor do I think that they are cold murderers and I don't think they are capable of eliminating all forensic evidence of any crime whether it was intentional or an accident. If that did happen I think there was help from someone with a heck of a lot more experience than they have.

The more I think about it and ponder disappearances, I really wonder if she is alive somewhere and as awful as it would be if true, perhaps she did just 'want to get away' from all the pressure she must have been under. I really don't think things were as happy in this family as they would like us to believe, there is just something that does not ring 'true,' about the whole thing. Especially when you compare it to the reactions of other families that have been devastated by missing/killed/raped children.

I can't begin to guess the truth, but I think there are more questions than answers coming out of Mountain Brook.

Keep putting out the facts, that will certainly help, IMHO.

[wreck]

For all the bitching about Beth and Jug from Aruba -- Dompig still admits in VF that Joran confessed to fondling Natalee while she was in and out of sleep. Why the hell shouldn't the Twittys be upset that this is not being investigated/pursued by the ALE/Justice system?
J2K are the only suspects according to ALE. If ALE thinks they are "pressured" by the Twittys/MSM, all I can say is "grow a pair" and just do the right thing -- their opinions be damned.

[Karen]

"Dompig still admits in VF that Joran confessed to fondling Natalee while she was in and out of sleep. Why the hell shouldn't the Twittys be upset that this is not being investigated/pursued by the ALE/Justice system?"

So, would that be considered some degree of assault in the US? Like, maybe, a few months in jail? If so, then just about every male in the US who's ever been with a drunk date would end up in the pokey. As we've heard dozens of times, a confession is not sufficient to CHARGE someone (why the ALE wouldn't pick up Depak on basis of what he SUPPOSEDLY said on the Skeeter tape).

[truthbetold]

I write from my own life experiences and how I would react in the same situation. I can tell you I would be saying Aruban law be damned. I would have been there digging in dumps and in the Arubans faces trying to get answers and if my country chose not to support me - well skrew them.

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 6:42:55 AM

would you now? maybe yo should have told betha nd jug whatt o do then because I never saw them dig look or search ANYWHERE - DAVE DID - AND THE ONLY FACES THEY WERE IN WERE THOSE OF THE CAMERAS 24-7 - GRETA HAS BEEN TOTALLY BIASED IN HER TREATMENT OF BETH AND NEVER CALLED HER ON ONE THING ECER WHEN I KNOW AND SO DO YOU SHE HAS SEEN BETH'S LIES AND INCONSISTENT STAEMENTS AND KNOWS THE TAPES ETC WERE A BUNCH OF LIES TOO - WHAT OTHER REPORTER GOES AND EATS AT SOMEONES HOUSE?? SHE LONG AGO LOST ANY CREDIBILITY THAT SHE CAN BE FAIR - STOP CALLING BETH A "GRIEVING MOTHER" WHERE'S THE GRIEF? ALL I SEE IS BETH ON CAMERA WHY ISN'T SHE WITH HER SON? REMEBER HIM??? SHE DIDN'T EVEN SPEND THANKSGIVING WITH HIM AND IT LOOKS LIEK SINCE SHE IS ON HER "SECRET MISSION" SHE WON'T BE THERE FOR CHRISTMAS EITHER - ONE WOULD THINK YOUR ONLY REMAINING CHILD WOULD BE EXTRA PRECIOUS TO YOU WHEN YOU LOST YOUR DAUGHTER BUT OF COURSE, THERE ARE CAMERAS AROUND SO THAT'S WHAT IMPORTANT - FACED WITH A CHOICE OF JOE MAMANNA OR HER OWN SON BETH CHOSE JOE

[April]

Here goes Dan again, Greta bashing! He's jealous because all he has is this blog, while Greta probably gets six figures & respect.
Thank God Natalee's story stays in the news. Lots of cases have been solved from the media coverage. I remember so many "missing" stories Greta has covered, some in more depth than others. The Elizabeth Smart story had a happy ending, unlike most. Bottom line: this is still about finding Natalee.

[antoinette]

Well you know Domping gave an statement to the VF that Natalee was in love with a blue eyes guy, so maybe the fact that he was left alone or was a sailors love maybe he left and Natalee had a broken heart. She did something stupid. The bottom line is that Joran does have brown eyes. First statements from BETH and the MBK.
Yesteday I was making the point that Princess Diana had an accident in France, UK never call for a boycott, following this never made public that the French police was incompetent, UP TO THIS DAY NO PERSON HAS BEEN CHARGE.
Anyways some people think that because they have a nacionality, they are higher or smater that other nacionality. for the BEth and Dave supporters supporters think they need more your financial support, so here is the link http://www.anation4natalee.org/
I believe the case is not any more about Natalee, because it has been so many lies, tapes, calls, blue eyes guy, sex, no sex, well you name it....

[scubajap]

Hey I hear Steve Cohen, the new PR spin man for Aruba, is big into porn. Got sued over the www.sex.com website

Posted by: DoorMart | Dec 6, 2005 8:08:53 AM

What a crock! If you guys have nothing intelligent to say you will just make stuff up, put it out there so that it can get repeated all over the net?
And I saw Penowa on Free Republic say the same thing months ago about the leader of the Task force at that time, which was total BS, so just more to smear anyone representing Aruba? You can't even make up an original lie?

[Skyboxx]

Folks,

As I said in June, July, August, Sept and so on, this case was about the Ted Kennedy-esque of the Vandersloots. Ted got away with the demise of Mary Jo and VDS are getting away with Natalee Holloways rape, disappearance and more than likely demise. Paulus VDS holds the key and the sooner they put pressure on him, the sooner this thing gets solved. I told everytone back in August that as soon as the kid gets released, they high tail it back to Holland. Well folks, that what they did. I just wish Anita VDS would come forward and tell what she now must know about Paulus.....

[Not a Hand Wringer]

Greta is one of the new breed of Cable News 'Advocacy-Journalists' as Mark Geragos calls them.

In the Natalee case, Greta's mind is made up. She is pro-Beth's point of view, and Greta also has her own personal axe to grind with Aruban LE and the prosecution in particular.

Some viewers will respond to that, and others will be turned off. Put me in the latter category.

One thing for sure. She's talking out of both sides of her crooked mouth at once, when she lobbys for external pressure on Aruban LE on one hand, and chastizes them for caving to pressure on the other.

[john]

Cover up games in action. Spin the case and best way is blame the victim and her family.She had exceses, drank too much, every day and missed breakfast twice says Domping and there is this Dutch tall blue eyed boy who fell in love with NH who should not be Joran says Domping again. Why not pick up the blue eyed guy Domping if he is for real and not a dummy in these cover up games.So Natalee had to be drugged, kidnapped,raped and killed for engaging in drinking, justice done to her. Lets not prosecute anyone who did this to her because she deserved it. What a dirty game this cover up has become! Somebody big and powerful should be behind this cover up.So far its working and the USA seems not to care except for one governor so far.

[Samantha West]

I'm glad that Vanity Fair wrote the article. It portrays Aruba as lacking leadership, willpower & resolution, if a petite woman can sidetrack an investigation. Dompig needs to retire or grow a backbone & some gray matter!

Posted by: Han | Dec 5, 2005 11:18:15 PM

I agree with this post. After reading the article it makes the Arubans police department look really weak! So, they just arrested the three boys b/c they were pressured by the Twittys? Hey Arubans...grow some balls why don't you! I guess daddy van der sloot but the pressure on them to arrest the two security gaurds to deter them from the what really happened. Maybe the comment made to Dave about "how much money do you have" is really how things work on that island. Wimps!

Posted by: mom | Dec 6, 2005 11:17:51 AM

You people fail to understand, this woman began to release confidentially shared information about the case to the media in order to put pressure on the ALE to march to her perscribed timetable, in order not to torpedo the case if this woman released even more confidential data, they had to proceeed immediately with what they had. Dutch law allows that any evidence that is compromised and exposed can render a case null and void even before it has started. The case can be tossed out immediately.

ALE's only mistake was to keep these Mountain Brook "people" informed and share this confidential data. Instead of understanding this and appreciating the woman began to flog it on late night television as means to get in front of a camera and by discussing it, jepordizing the case.

Again ALE's only mistake was they were too nice to the Twitty "people" who abused this or as it is apparent today don't really care as they are not really interested in solving the case.

GET THIS INTO YOUR PEABRAINS PEOPLE.

Posted by: BIG STICK GUY ! | Dec 6, 2005 11:33:47 AM

...
* High Commisioner Berndadina was also interviewed regarding the case and just gave some commment. ... He also stated that after that he was in Philadelphia for a meeting with other American police and investigator and sharing some information he was critized by the American colleagues that the ALE gave too much information to the family, since the family is also being investigated in the US. The American police told him, that too much information to the family, they will used it againt the ALE. And it happened, so he regretted the way the ALE kept informing the family regarding the information.

Posted by: MF | Nov 2, 2005 6:58:42 PM

ALE's only mistake was they were too nice to the Twitty "people" who abused this or as it is apparent today don't really care as they are not really interested in solving the case.

Posted by: BIG STICK GUY ! | Dec 6, 2005 11:33:47 AM

Posted by: BIG STICK GUY ! | Dec 6, 2005 11:33:47 AM

To be frankly, this was a pretty grave mistake, wasn't it?

Posted by: George | Dec 6, 2005 11:51:33 AM

HUGE! ALE had to rush arrest them with what they had before the entire case would be dismissed by the courts for ever. Really really stupid of the Twitty's and thankfully at minimum ALE still has two years to do something and they are still legally suspects under the laws. Can you imagine if the entire case was dismissed without recourse before it even got started because the Twitty's kept releasing confidential evidence.

Posted by: Samantha West | Dec 6, 2005 12:00:41 PM

To be frankly, this was a pretty grave mistake, wasn't it?

Posted by: George | Dec 6, 2005 11:51:33 AM

[Samantha West]

Reading between the lines it's starting to sound like the 5 days was a drunken sex romp. Something Caligula would be proud of.

Posted by: jkatl | Dec 6, 2005 7:38:42 AM

LOL! Well it wasn't a Bible Study trip like you are led to believe. Mountain Brook is quite the party town, You need to read the stats on that little town

[1] Prostitution hidden in the form of "excorts" [tecnical difference only being rate for time spent min 1 hour versus rate for stated act of sex only] is legal in Mountain Brook and licenses allow for 18 year olds to procure them even though the age of majority is 19 [2]. Drugs and Booze are an enormous problem there to the point of concerted efforts and programs well beyond the norm to combat it plus random drug testing outside atheletic endeavors.

Mountain Brook is quite the party town despite the innoncence its residents try to project. You can bet your bottom dollar this trip was all about sex booze and drugs. You don't send your kiddies to another country where drinking is legal at 18 versus your countries law being 21 AND buy them all inclusive drinking plans and bands for your wrist for now reason. A veritable den of iniquity. Let's not even go into the Police Stats for Domestic Violence and Drug arrests which would explain Jug Twitty's violent act against Julia.:

[1] "No matter how hard they try, Mtn. Brook students will always drink, smoke, and party hard every weekend. Our motto will forever be “there ain’t no party like a Mtn. Brook party because a Mtn. Brook party don’t stop”

MOUNTAIN BROOK HIGH SCHOOL
DRUG SURVEY

Mountain Brook Students were asked:

If you could say one thing to the parents in this community, what do you think they need to
understand regarding teenagers and substance abuse issues?

Your kids aren’t as perfect as you may think. A lot of parents assume that other kids are doing drugs
and drinking, but not their child. Well, you may be surprised.
I would say that parents need to understand that they are our parents and not our friends, meaning they
need to discipline us when appropriate and be willing to deal with us not being happy with them, not
liking them. They need to be more concerned with our character than our feelings towards them at one
point in time.
Most parents are oblivious to their kids that do drink, do drugs, etc.
I think they need to understand their kids, know who they hang out with, and talk to them. It is not
viewed as a big deal for some reason, and it seems to be the thing to do. Put emphasis on how not cool
it is and encourage them to see above the rest.
It’s more widespread then you think.
I would tell parents that if they are trying to keep their kids off drugs, and just started the effort in high
school, that they will be unsuccessful. People will do what they want to do regardless of the
consequences. So, if they are serious, they need to start by raising their children correctly and starting
early.
No child is safe – tons of people you would never imagine smoke pot and drink – pot and alcohol are the
biggest problems – only morons smoke tobacco.
Parents need to stop having the wool pulled over their eyes about substance abuse. Just because we go
to Mtn. Brook doesn’t mean it’s not there.
It’s their responsibility, more so than the schools.
Whatever they are doing now, isn’t working.
If you think your child isn’t drinking, he/she is. Wake up and set consequences.
Many parents are in denial about their children. I don’t think they realize how much substance abuse
goes on. Parents need to wise up and take control of their kids. They need to ask questio ns, and actually
care. There is a lot of underage drinking, and part of it is due to the parents’ lack of care.
That the most unassuming kids are the ones doing the most drugs

[2] Chapter 5.1 ESCORT SERVICES
Sec. 5.1-1. Definitions.
Sec. 5.1-2. Escort license--Required; age qualification.
Sec. 5.1-3. Same--Application.
Sec. 5.1-4. Same--Investigation; temporary permit; appeals.
Sec. 5.1-5. Same--Issuance; renewal.
Sec. 5.1-6. Same--Display; mutilation, etc., prohibited.
Sec. 5.1-7. Service license--Required.
Sec. 5.1-8. Same--Fees.
Sec. 5.1-9. Unlawful to employ persons having prior conviction for prostitution.
Sec. 5.1-10. Records to be kept.
Sec. 5.1-11. Penalties.

Sec. 5.1-1. Definitions.
For the purposes of this chapter, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them by this section:
Chief of police. The chief of police of the city.
City clerk. The city clerk of the City of Mountain Brook.
Escort service. A service provided for hire or for a charge or fee, whether on a daily, hourly or other basis, whereby a person over eighteen (18) years of age may be furnished or provided social accompaniment, whether such accompaniment is for the purpose of guiding or escorting such person on a trip or tour, for a social date or engagement, for social entertainment or as a social escort or guest.
(Ord. No. 816, § 1)

Sec. 5.1-2. Escort license--Required; age qualification.
(a) No person shall hire out or become employed as an escort who is not at least twenty-one (21) years of age and who shall be licensed as provided herein.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any owner or operator of an escort service to permit or allow an employee or other person acting under his direction or control to provide any escort services as defined herein who is not licensed under the provisions of this chapter.
(Ord. No. 816, § 2)

Sec. 5.1-3. Same--Application.
An application for an escort's license as required by section 5.1-2 shall be filed with the city police department on forms provided by the police department. Such application shall be verified under oath and shall contain the following information concerning the applicant:
(a) Full name;
(b) Current residence, giving street number;
(c) How long resided at current residence;
(d) Place of residence for two (2) years immediately preceding taking up residence at current address;
(e) Age, sex, color and height;
(f) Color of eyes and hair;
(g) Place of birth;
(h) All places of previous employment, if any, for the past three (3) years;
(i) Marital status;
(j) Whether the applicant has, within five (5) years, been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor and the nature of the felony or misdemeanor, together with the date and place of each such conviction;
(k) Whether the applicant has previously been licensed elsewhere as an escort and whether any such license has been revoked and for what cause;
(l) The name and address of the employer or operator for whom the applicant expects to be employed as an escort;
(m) At the time of filing such application, the applicant shall permit the city to produce a full set of applicant's fingerprints;
(n) At the time application is filed, the applicant shall pay to the city the sum of twenty-five dollars ($25.00), which shall not be returnable whether or not the license is issued; and
(o) Written verification by a licensed physician, bearing a date not more than twenty (20) days prior to the date of application, evidencing that the applicant is free of any contagious, infectious or communicable disease

Posted by: Pastor Hilton Summer | Dec 6, 2005 8:37:23 AM

[c]

Here goes Dan again, Greta bashing! He's jealous because all he has is this blog, while Greta probably gets six figures & respect.
Thank God Natalee's story stays in the news. Lots of cases have been solved from the media coverage. I remember so many "missing" stories Greta has covered, some in more depth than others. The Elizabeth Smart story had a happy ending, unlike most. Bottom line: this is still about finding Natalee.

Posted by: April | Dec 6, 2005 11:34:44 AM

Just because she makes 6 figures, does that mean that she can distort the truth, become bias towards Beth and let her broadcast all her stories, which are eventually found to be untrue.

Bottom Line: Great or Beth don't care about Natalie Holloway. One cares for ratings (so she can make 6 figures, or may be 7 figures if possible) and the other who is trying to get her own tv show so she can start making big bucks.

[hardyandtiny]

"Dompig still admits in VF that Joran confessed to fondling Natalee while she was in and out of sleep.

Whe was Joran supposedly doing that? The car or the beach, or both?

[ustt]

...You better not judge Beth and Dave until you go to a foreign country that has swallowed up your child and see how "easy going and nonchalant" you act with the whole situation...

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 4:59:08 AM

There ARE over 78,000 MIA American soldiers from WWII who are still missing. Just like Natalee, they were NOT "swallowed up" by a "foreign country". Their fate was decided by other humans and it's still unknown even with the power of America.

You are still demanding instant gratification and that is often impossible in missing persons cases even in the US.

Atributing her disappearance to another country is absurd.

Posted by: CitizenDick | Dec 6, 2005 9:20:14 AM

____________

actually cdick, i'll recount for you what col hunt on Hannity and Colmes said the other night:

"The government has the responsibility to protect American citizens abroad."

col hunt was saying this in ref to the peace hostages in Iraq presently. I personally think it can be translated to Natalee's situation.

As for instant gratification, i have no idea what you mean by the term in the Holloway situation. It sounds a little sexual in its undertone also.

[April]

Just because she makes 6 figures, does that mean that she can distort the truth, become bias towards Beth and let her broadcast all her stories, which are eventually found to be untrue.

That's your opinion. I feel Greta does not distort the truth & is assisting Beth as she has other victim's families. Greta's hierarchy continues to allow her to comment on what is aired...so he/she must also approve!

[jenn]

I would like to see how each and every person who is saying that Beth, Jug and Dave were rude to the Arubans, how you would deal with it if it were one of your loved ones that went missing in a foreign country that claimed to be a "safe" place. Don't get me wrong I love Aruba, but the law enforcement botched this from day one, and if they weren't equipped to handle it or didn't know how they should have asked for help from the Netherlands in the beginning! They may never have the answer as to where Natalee is or what happened to her, but they very well might have if the law enforcement didn't botch it up!

[Joseph]

The Most Likely Scenario of the Natalee Holloway Mystery

It is obvious that it is in Aruba’s best interest to show the world that it is a law-abiding country and that the safety of its visitors is a prime concern of its government.

Why then has nobody been charged, even if by doing so, the pressures will be eliminated, or at least relieved, and the economic reliance on tourism will not be threatened?

Natalee Holloway was last seen at an Aruban bar late on Sunday night, May 29, 2005 in the company of Joran van der Sloot, and Depak and Satish Kalpoe.

The evidence clearly shows that she was inebriated or drugged, and was likely raped by the three boys somewhere in the vicinity of the lighthouse. At some time during the orgy, she probably regained consciousness and tried to fight them off. The evidence clearly shows that blood was spilled inside the car, but whose blood it was is unknown because the police never determined this, or at least never revealed it.

During the fracas, it is probable that Natalee died from causes unknown. She may have been strangled or suffocated. In a panic, they contacted Paulus van der Sloot, who showed up at the beach, and told them that they must get rid of the body. “No body, no case”, he told them. The boys, having a dead body on their hands, realized they had to get rid of it. A short conference revealed that local fishermen used a form of fish trap that was large enough to contain a human body, and that such a fish trap, and the weights necessary to keep it sunk were available at the fishermen’s huts. They contacted Steve Croes, and arranged for him to get a boat and meet them along the beach, which he did. The boys then stole a fish trap and weights from the fishermen’s hut. (Such a theft had never been known to have occurred before.)

The boys, along with Paulus and Steve Croes, then inserted Natalee’s body into the trap and loaded it aboard the boat. Steve took the boat out a few miles and dumped the trap with Natalee’s body.

In spite of all the conflicting statements, denials, and admissions made by all of the above suspects, and with no further evidence that can be admitted, it is likely that what followed has some logical basis, and cannot easily be dismissed as “conspiracy theory”.

The principle admitted fact, which is now beyond question, is that every single person in authority on the island of Aruba was either an intimate friend of Paulus van der Sloot, or at least, a colleague. When the blood was discovered in the car, and when other evidence, not yet revealed, indicated the involvement of Paulus’ family, the prosecutor, the Attorney General, the Chief of Police, and the Judge of Instruction, either together, or individually determined to suppress the evidence to protect the van der Sloots, and as a distraction, decided to arrest two innocent black security guards, keeping them incommunicado for ten days, without even an interrogation from the police.

The general opinion at this early stage of the investigation was that public attention would fade in a short while, and so they determined to keep the evidence under wraps.

Unexpectedly, the Holloway-Twitty family kept up a highly public campaign of outrage, heavily assisted by the TV press, at the bumbling and apparent cover-up of the case. The investigating authorities then became concerned that their criminal conduct might be exposed, but it was too late to reveal their findings without incriminating themselves.

Finally they re-arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, but they had no intention to actually extract anything of value from them. Incredibly, Karen Janssen, the prosecutor, during the “height” of the investigation, took a two-week “vacation”, during which she went to Holland. The purpose of her “vacation” was to confer with the Dutch authorities, who controlled the Aruban Judiciary, advising them of the embarrassing situation involving Paulus, who was about to be elevated to the bench.

From that moment on, Holland was in complete control of events, even to requiring judges brought from the neighboring island of Curacao (also under Dutch control), to rule in such a manner as to make it virtually impossible ever to convict Paulus or Joran.

The situation, (especially in the absence of the now well-hidden evidence) is one that resembles the Sherlock Holmes story, “The Dog That Didn‘t Bark”. In that story, what was supposed to have occurred didn’t, and that led to its solution. In this case, the lack of any real action on the part of the Aruban authorities - so what is the delay? It is seriously detrimental to the entire island of Aruba to permit this case to go on without any of the people involved even so much as to be charged with any crime, even though there is clearly plenty of reason to do so. For example, making a false statement under oath to the police is certainly an obstruction of justice in any jurisdiction. There are sufficient examples of false and contradictory statements made by Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, as well as Steve Croes to hold any or all of them on charges.

The reason seems to be as follows: upon any of the alleged miscreants being charged (for any crime), his defense counsel is entitled to both discovery and subpoena power. Discovery can be a very dangerous weapon in the hands of a defense counsel bound to exculpate his client. Discovery may well open the entire investigation to public scrutiny, demonstrating that evidence was covered up early in the investigatory process by those who had a duty to pursue it. Similarly, subpoena power might well bring under oath persons who can also expose the criminal cover-up of evidence.

On the basis of the foregoing, it seems likely that the Dutch government and the Aruban authorities will never permit anybody to be charged in this case, preferring instead to rely in the public’s well-known short memory, rather than to expose the corruption and cover up of the Aruban authorities, thus preserving the fiction that Aruba is in the hands of competent and concerned judicial personnel.

What has been reported and noted by numerous experts and commentators as “bumbling” or incompetence by the police and prosecutors in the early stages of the investigation, as well as the often-repeated “our Aruban law is not the same as yours” are all smoke screens. Anybody who has ever watched a TV detective story, or a police movie knows better than to do what was done in Aruba.

The longer the case goes on, and the longer people like
Beth Twitty are seen as a nuisance, rather than a bereaved mother, and that it is likely that people will soon tire of it, the more likely it is that this case will die.

Aside from an effective voluntary boycott, the only other pressure that seems available is a State Department warning to travelers that Aruba has not shown itself to be a safe destination

[SMS]

I honestly don't see how anyone is dense enough to believe a word that the lying H/Ts, and their minister of propaganda, Greta, has to say, anymore. I appreciate the Vanity Fair article, along with new revelations about the multitude of lies that the Twittys have perpetrated, including the scam of soliciting money by the millions to pay for their lavish lifestyle. There are thousands of missing children, and their families struggle without a single drop of help. If the greedy Twittys used that money to help others, my sympathies would be in their corner. The fact that they associate with gangsters, money-launderers, and are thieving liars, diminishes any pretense that they are doing good. I am very glad that the screw has turned and the world will see what lying thieves they really are.
I have no doubt that Natalee either ran away, or met with a tragedy trying to escape from these bad and dishonest people.

[Joseph]

The "pundits" are always whining "...but there is no evidence..." -- But there probably is, but when it showed that it incriminated the intimate friend, Paulus van der Sloot and his family, it was suppressed, hoping that this case would just "go away" as so many other cases have.

Now it is too late to come up with the evidence (whatever it is) because this would expose Karen Janssen and others to a criminal conspiracy charge.

When Miss Janssen realized that Beth and the press were pressing her (pardon the pun), she went on "vacation" to Holland to get advice and instructions from them. They apparently decided that it would be more embarrasssing for the Dutch to admit that one of their chosen candidates to be a judge was complicit in a murder.

So.... the cover-up continues. Nobody will ever be charged, because if a single one of them is charged, his counsel has discovery and subpoena powers which he will no doubt use to defend his client, and hence uncover what is now hidden.

So, forget about a solution. This case will just go on and on until it finally peters out.

[Jan]

When it comes to this case - Greta seems to be stuck on STUPID and last nite she may have reached the highest level of stupid. I could hardly believe the audasity she had for once again railing over Aruba LE for caving into the Twitty pressure - she truly does not even listen or remember what she has been stating since day one - she has always insisted Aruba LE listen to the Twitty's now we find out they did - and she calls it caving. How totally annoying can this woman be - she no more deserves to have a show than a kindergartener - at least some of the talking heads with her last nite like Janie the other defense man had the good sense to realize that the Twitts would not have had any lucky pressuring this investigation in most areas of the US and these 3 would probably never have spent a day in jail. Let alone be tried and convicted by the Twitts and shows like Greta for 6 months. Dan is 100% correct in his analysis of GVS - she is a complete joke - she is so far into the Bethites that she reaks of biase - thank goodness for remote controls!!

[Rubby]

Dan knows when his site hits start going down, post a Holloway piece.

[CitizenDick]

actually cdick, i'll recount for you what col hunt on Hannity and Colmes said the other night:

"The government has the responsibility to protect American citizens abroad."

col hunt was saying this in ref to the peace hostages in Iraq presently. I personally think it can be translated to Natalee's situation.

As for instant gratification, i have no idea what you mean by the term in the Holloway situation. It sounds a little sexual in its undertone also.

Posted by: ustt | Dec 6, 2005 1:08:43 PM

Damn, can I get a US government bodyguard when I visit Mexico next?

In this context, instant gratification would mean that you want answers and you want them now. That's an extraordinarily unreasonable request if the answers do not exist. That appears to be the situation in the Holloway case.

I have a great uncle who absolutely disappeared off the face of the earth here in America back in 1913. The family is still waiting for the answer to that mystery and I don't think we're going to get one. That's the way it happens sometimes and you'll need to get used to it.

[MF]

Aside from an effective voluntary boycott, the only other pressure that seems available is a State Department warning to travelers that Aruba has not shown itself to be a safe destination

Posted by: Joseph | Dec 6, 2005 1:18:20 PM

Well, if the voluntary boycott ever worked it would keep some Alabamans and Arkansans from going to Aruba, American Hotels and airlines companies would definitely worry on how they would fill those missing group of people.

But that the State department will ever warn its citizens about traveling to Aruba and that Aruba is in anyway dangerous, would be a dream come true to some who do not want to see the whole picture of this issue but prefer to get their biased information from Greta and Nancy Waste.

Aruba in no form has shown that it is dangerous in anyway, but mainly showed that the Judge system and laws are to be followed regardless who is the victim or suspects.

[mom]

SMS...I appreciate the Vanity Fair article,

Vanity Fair? Please, give me a break. Do you realize how stupid this makes them look by giving an interview to a fashion mag? It makes them look damn right pathetic. I would be embarrassed!

[Not a Hand Wringer]

{{ Vanity Fair? Please, give me a break. Do you realize how stupid this makes them look by giving an interview to a fashion mag? It makes them look damn right pathetic. I would be embarrassed!

Posted by: mom | Dec 6, 2005 2:06:48 PM}}

If I knew who 'Them' was, I could either agree or disagree.

But, I'm curious. There were many people interviewed by the writer of the VF article.

Are they all stupid and pathetic for being interviewed, or just the ones whom you dislike?

[berry]

thought this statement came from Julie Renfro and Holiday Inn employees....wouldn't this make this info kind of tainted....Both sources have only Aruban financial interests in mind. If I remember the Aruba paper that Renfro edits is mostly a tourism paper full of ads for tourist...seems its all about money to them and nothing about Natalee.

Posted by: MikefrMd |

__________________________________

Renfro was one of the Twittys earliest advocates and helpers. She reports on all world events as well as tourism info for Aruba Today. Go back and check their archives. The paper has been dominated by Natalee stories, pics and headlines for months. If JR says that is what she heard and a HI employee says the same, I believe them.

The FBI could seek phone records to determine if BT ever received any phone calls from Aruba before the disappearance.

[MF]

SMS...I appreciate the Vanity Fair article,

Vanity Fair? Please, give me a break. Do you realize how stupid this makes them look by giving an interview to a fashion mag? It makes them look damn right pathetic. I would be embarrassed!

Posted by: mom | Dec 6, 2005 2:06:48 PM

MOM, my honest opinion it's about the demographic. They did not want to be part in the show reagrading the false tapes in drd phil show, you know who the viewers are. Even the enquirer keeps creating stories, but no need to call them to correct the story. Remember the 75% of the 400 Alabamans interviewed that agreed with the boycott. Many of them don'r even know where Aruba is, some don't even know the difference between an island and a continent. can they afford a vacation on a Caribbean Island?

You know how many Arkansas go to Aruba per year? Not enough to know they did not even come.

[berry]

{{ Vanity Fair? Please, give me a break. Do you realize how stupid this makes them look by giving an interview to a fashion mag? It makes them look damn right pathetic. I would be embarrassed!

Posted by: mom | Dec 6, 2005 2:06:48 PM}}

__________________________

Have you ever read Vanity Fair? Fashion mag? That magazine has superb writing by Dominick Dunne, Burroughs and others.

[c]

That's your opinion. I feel Greta does not distort the truth & is assisting Beth as she has other victim's families. Greta's hierarchy continues to allow her to comment on what is aired...so he/she must also approve!

Posted by: April | Dec 6, 2005 1:11:03 PM

Greta might have helped other victims, but in this case she has been biased towards Beth.

Yes, Greta's hiearchy will let her air any comment, simply because it is all about ratings$$$ and not about the truth.