Natalee Holloway: The Politics

The audio segment pertaining only to the Holloway case from my recent call in to Subject2Discussion is being hosted by Hyscience here.

I have also gotten word that politics in the Netherlands could be leading toward a reconsideration of their troop deployments in Afghanistan. This from email:

... I was startled to hear from a very prominent Dutch MP,
Mr. Van Baalen (a staunch supporter of Dutch military involvement
in support of the US war on terror from the beginning), that he had a list of "questions" to be answered by the foreign Minister, Ben Bot, before his party
(the right wing VVD, also part of the current Dutch government)
would consider expanding/continuing the support to US led operations in Afghanistan (150 more Dutch marines to be sent for "Enduring Freedom" for covert operations on top of 4 more F16s, 100 airforce (wo)men, and 750 more marines during election time.)

The TV reporter asking him why he - of all persons - changed his mind
on his well known unconditional Dutch support policy for the US operations
in Afghanistan, he said that he had too many questions about current
"open issues", he mentioned the following:

-- will prisoners taken by Dutch marines and thereafter handed
   over to US marines, be treated according the Geneva convention?
-- does the CIA have permission from the Dutch government to use Dutch airports (e.g. Schiphol) to transfer prisoners from one place to another?
-- does the CIA have secret "prisons" in Europe?

and I could almost hear him wonder:

-- why did the US government not publicly condemn the "boycott" of Aruba from day 1?
-- why did US diplomats not publicly condemn the media
   slander against Dutch government officials (yes, including
   Karin (not Karen or Caren) Janssen and Paul van der Sloot)?
-- why does the British government warn a newspaper not
   to publish more details from a secret document suggesting that
   pres. Bush wanted to bomb al Jazeera headquarters?
   (What did the President have in mind? Replace al Jazeera by Dr. Phil & Co??)

And if those last 3 points were at that moment not in the mind of Mr. Van Baalen, they certainly are in those of many - if not all - other members of parliament in Holland.

I guess your concerns about US-Dutch relations were on target and
prophetical...

Also see here at Hyscience for more on the Aruban side of this story, including the Mansur connection. I should be clear on something - I am not suggesting that one of the chief protagonists in this story, Jossy Mansur, is in any way linked directly to the types of activities the US needs to be concerned about should certain political changes take place in Aruba due, in part, to economic damage America attempts to influence with a boycott. However, there are groups and individuals in the Caribbean that do warrant America's attention, ones who would likely exploit those changes.

For background, you'll also want to see Cable News: A Season of Fraud and Why We Think Van Der Sloot Is Guilty.

At this point, my basic contention is that the media circus fostered by our Cable News outlets could result in negative consequences for America which override any one missing persons case in importance - however unfortunate that one case.

Comments

[sadie]

So Alyssa...what you are saying is that it's really not about Natalee but about MONEY....you
should get alone well with Holloway/Twitty...seems like it's all about MONEY for them too.
Seem's like more people on the blogs care for Natalee more than her family.

[Forreal]

For those of you who are wasting their time (then again, what is there to do in Alabama or rural PA anyway) wishing for Aruba's demise, go read a book or fix your teeth or hunker down that trailer for the next tornado/hurricane.

Aruba is there to stay, live and kicking! The Holloway tragedy has not significantly affected tourism and things will normalize after this tragic story dies on tv after November sweeps (trust me).

Why have you never seen a commercial for Aruba (like Jamaica or Puerto Rico)? Because Aruba has become the most popular Caribbean destination by word of mouth and travel agents who still love and heavily promote the SAFE island getaway.

Aruba also gets so many return travelers because they own a piece of paradise with their timeshares. Just like you support your own neighborhood and your investment.

If this unfortunate case alerted parents to pay more attention to their kids and where they go, GOOD! There aren't too many of these wealthy young travelers anyway.

Finally, please stop comparing the US coastline to Aruba. You only look like a fool! I've been to most beaches in the South and the best one I've been to is Ft. DeSoto by St. Petersburg. Hot . . . but no Aruba. By the way, if you have travelled a bit, you know that it's not only the estetics but also the feel and culture of a place that people enjoy.

So Arubans, don't worry - be happy!

[Nicole]

The timeshare raised the eyebow of IRS because of the abuse of offshore investment tax credit. The new tax code flagged the IRS for an audit of an individual investments starting this year. Many financial advisors are telling their clients to dump their timeshares and buy realty in retirement condo communities. A bad name such as Aruba draws much more attention. You can easily become a focus of tax evasion audit and criminal investigation if you own a piece of timeshare in notorious place something of the nature of Aruba.

[justthefactspls]

These were West Indians from the West Indies, not Dutch Nationals, black immigrants in their own community spured by gangsta rap and porn

Posted by: Lara | Nov 24, 2005 7:51:22 PM

BIGOTED MUCH?!!!

[justthefactspls]

The Arubans are the grand grand children of black slaves and Dutch death row prisoners. The Dutch Kingdom shipped these outcasts to cultivate the island and intermarry with the local Cannibal tribes. The Cannibal tribes ate all the black and Dutch females. That's the reason why there is this murderer gene in their blood. The world starts to wonder how many people had been murdered on the island and not reported because they can dispose the corpse so well, and nobody, no crime.

Posted by: Tipala | Nov 24, 2005 8:26:50 PM

YOU ARE AN IDIOT BEYOND ALL MEASURE, AND A BIGOT ON TOP OF IT!!!

[Stella]

Excellent observations, Forreal! You know, I had never thought about why Aruba is never advertised, yet, why when I tried to book a hotel there over the holidays, there were NO VACANCIES at the hotels I can afford. Flights are also extremely limited.

Dan Riehl, you are my hero, the first to honestly examine the hyperbole of the media, and the systematic persecution of the Aruban people and ALE. You questioned why there is such a lack of credibility coming out of Mountain Brook.

This Dr. Phil stunt was the last straw for many who supported the family.

The media has much to hang their heads in shame about, and the public needs to question the details of the hype, wondering how it is, that if Joran raped and killed a girl, how he managed to go to school, take finals, and then had the emotional fortitude to participate in a poker championship the next night? It speaks to his lack of consciousness of guilt. Even a sociopath would find themselves too drained to go out on the town the next night.

I don't know what happened to Natalee, but, I don't necessarily believe that she's dead, and after six months of watching her mother on television, I think it's also a possibilty that "Little Hootie" ran away.
I would run away from her. That woman is not sympathetic, not honest, and has done nothing but make money off of this event, while associating with different gangsters, thieves, and potential terrorists, like Jossy and Joe. If Jossy is part of Hezbollah, then, he has a hidden agenda. I think Mammano and Jar Twitty, two other alleged money-launderers, are conveniently using the millions in the trust funds to launder money.

The American public has been defrauded, lied to, and fooled by these scam artists. I think it's also a possibility that they know where Natalee is, and have used this scam all along to make money, and ruin Aruba. Shame on those who stil maintain all of their propaganda.

[Nathalie Lacle]

Most Dangerous Cities:
1. Camden, N.J.
2. Detroit
3. St. Louis
4. Flint, Mich.
5. Richmond, Va.
6. Baltimore
7. Atlanta
8. New Orleans
9. Gary, Ind.
10. Birmingham, Alabama

[Forreal]

The timeshare raised the eyebow of IRS because of the abuse of offshore investment tax credit. The new tax code flagged the IRS for an audit of an individual investments starting this year. Many financial advisors are telling their clients to dump their timeshares and buy realty in retirement condo communities. A bad name such as Aruba draws much more attention. You can easily become a focus of tax evasion audit and criminal investigation if you own a piece of timeshare in notorious place something of the nature of Aruba.

Posted by: Nicole | Nov 25, 2005 12:28:27 PM

Where do you come up with such nonsense, Nicole?

[a..incanada]

Stella, you probably have it right!

With the Netherlands not wanting to send Dutch troops to Afghanistan, I'd also like to see the Canadian boys coming home, from the hotspots over there. Knowing some of these boys and the families, I do feel for their safety. I don't want to see good lives wasted for the likes of the MB crew!! Let the little drunken snobs from MB go over to Afghanistan. They might eventually learn something while there. They might learn to stand on their own two feet, rather than hide behind the confiscator of evidence, Marcia.

[Jennifer]

The Democrats and Republicans each kicks off the 2008 presidental election fundraising events after Thanksgiving. Both parties plan a ticket of woman presidential candidates. Hillary and Condolisa are weighted in. Both ladies want the Natalee issue be squared away at all cost and take all the credit they wish have of appearing to the American people as the most caring woman in America, and a good friend of the grieving mother Beth Halloway Twitty. This is the American politics at its best. Aruba will trampled over if they continue to insist the Deepak Kalpoe tape is faked, and not pressing charges to Joran, Deepak, Satish and Paulus. Aruba is ripe for the al Qaeda terrorists to take over and bring the Terrorists War to the American doorstep. This is the most serious threat to USA comig from Aruban insurgents.

[a..incanada]

Aruban insurgents?? You are talking about Jossy Mansur's people aren't you? I hope. Otherwise???

What exactly do you people expect? Do you think the general public should forget about the falsified tapes and throw the 3 boys in jail to satisfy a few CRAZED Women?
My God! What next??

Maybe it's time for little Hootie to speak up. hmmm where could she be, Switzerland under an assumed?

[~ iwabwu ~ ~ ~]

These were West Indians from the West Indies, not Dutch Nationals, black immigrants in their own community spured by gangsta rap and porn

Posted by: Lara | Nov 24, 2005 7:51:22 PM

I think there are quite a few cases in the Dutch media. Here are some links I found awhile ago ~

http://qsi.cc/blog/archives/cat_crime_and_punishment.html
"If you do want to commit murder, do it in the Netherlands. If the reason is important enough for you, then spending 12 years in prison may not be such a bad deal. And if you can convince psychiatrists that you're actually nuts, you can get off even more easily. It's a ridiculous and dangerous position for a country to be in, but somehow I suspect it's not going to improve any time soon."

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?channel_id=1&story_id=23379
"The defendants were part of a group made up primarily of young boys of who raped three girls aged 13 to 14. Only some of the defendants were involved in each rape.

Ten of the eleven defendants were released on Monday because the sentences they received matched the period already spent in pre-trial custody. "

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=16282&name=Men+sentenced+for+rape+and+animal+porn+horror
"AMSTERDAM — A Dutch court has imposed sentences ranging from five to 10 years on four people found guilty of kidnapping asylum seekers and forcing them to take part in animal pornography. "

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?channel_id=1&story_id=2330
"AMSTERDAM — Three teenage boys have been arrested in connection with the gruesome rape of a teenage girl in an Amsterdam apartment in which a group of male youths were also forced to engage in sex acts with the female victim as the crime was captured on video."

http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/amsterdamforum/090905af?view=Standard
"In the latest case, 11 juvenile boys were convicted and given sentences ranging up to a year's youth detention after admitting involvement in raping three girls aged between 13 and 14."

http://qsi.cc/blog/archives/000016.html
"Police spokesman Martin Panman says: "This week or next, we'll set up a serious detective team of six people." The initial report was filed in May. Now it's middle of September. The suspects' identities were known. And still the police wouldn't act, and are now, under the pressure of publicity, setting up a team to investigate. Wasn't Holland pretending to be a civilized country?"

[~ iwabwu ~ ~ ~]

These were West Indians from the West Indies, not Dutch Nationals, black immigrants in their own community spured by gangsta rap and porn

Posted by: Lara | Nov 24, 2005 7:51:22 PM

Are gangsta rap and porn illegal in the Netherlands and Aruba? What about drugs? What are Joran, Deepak, & Satish considered by Arubans?

[a..incanada]

Probably considered "innocent until proven guilty by a COURT OF LAW".

[Cindy]

Hillary and Condilisa can show Aruba they are real women, and can kick their assholes. If these beautiful ladies decide to revenge over Dompig in the name of Natalee, not even the United Nations can stop them. Certainly this Aruban scandal has to end. The Netherlands authorities know it, and Netherlands stand to lose everything if they continue to cover up for the Aruban corruptions. Just remember the United States don't want any lazy Dutch soldiers. They just have gotten a good deal for the most fearsome Mongol horsemen warriors from the Mongolia president.

[a..incanada]

How about a list of all the murders, rapes, in USA?
Alabama?

[a..incanada]

I just googled the Mongolian horsemen and all that I saw were on donkeys!!! Good luck America!

[nelson]

Cindy do you live on FANTASY ISLAND OR SOMETHING???

[santo]

Cindy,

The Mongolian troops sound fierce!

[cindi in pa]

They just have gotten a good deal for the most fearsome Mongol horsemen warriors from the Mongolia president.

Posted by: Cindy | Nov 25, 2005 4:03:55 PM

LOL. Now that's funny. More fierce than US Special Forces?

[*flo*]

The timeshare raised the eyebow of IRS because of the abuse of offshore investment tax credit.
Posted by: Nicole | Nov 25, 2005 12:28:27 PM

Nicole, lets set the record straight on this, I am a Timeshare owner, free to travel worldwide... dues are paid annual...don't think this applies to individual owners but the companies/shareholder which own the properties,i.e. "Cendent," "Fairfield, "Marriott" etc...

[xp]

They just have gotten a good deal for the most fearsome Mongol horsemen warriors from the Mongolia president.

Posted by: Cindy | Nov 25, 2005 4:03:

Why don't bring back our own good old cowboys army!!!

[katya]

OMG this thread is funny.

Cindy*, Alyssa, Jennifer, Tipala, Marhta and Nicole are clearly the same person.

(*not cindi in pa)

[Arubaanse]

The Arubans are the grand grand children of black slaves and Dutch death row prisoners. The Dutch Kingdom shipped these outcasts to cultivate the island and intermarry with the local Cannibal tribes. The Cannibal tribes ate all the black and Dutch females. That's the reason why there is this murderer gene in their blood. The world starts to wonder how many people had been murdered on the island and not reported because they can dispose the corpse so well, and nobody, no crime.

Posted by: Tipala | Nov 24, 2005 8:26:50 PM

You know what instead of calling you names...I am just going to educate you on our people. Because people like you don't know anything about other culture so it's not your fault that you couldn't enjoy a proper education...

Aruba's first inhabitants were the Caquetios Indians from the Arawak tribe. Fragments of the earliest known Indian settlements date back to about 1000 A.D, as do the ancient painted symbols still visible on limestone caves found at Fontein, Ayo and elsewhere. Pottery remnants can still be seen at the Museum of Archaeology.

Some centuries later, the first European landed on Aruban shores. Spanish explorer Alonso de Ojeda is thought to have arrived about 1499. The Spanish promptly exported the Indians to Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic, where they were put to work in the copper mines.

In 1636, near the culmination of the Eighty Years' War between Spain and Holland, the Dutch took possession of Aruba and remained in control for nearly two centuries. In 1805, during the Napoleonic Wars, the English briefly took control over the island, but it was returned to Dutch control in 1816. Although Aruba continues to exist within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, it functions independently.