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Sunday, November 20, 2005

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"haha, alabama's poor" - Nelson Munts (simpson's)

I would venture to say most Alabamians could not even locate Aruba on a map,so they go blindly along with "yahoo aleebamie". If shown photos of Aruba, and given a free trip???? more takers than not, plus the of the educated answering 'boycott', will go to Aruba if they have a time share there, etc. As will the Twitty gang.

Usually its those blind followers that will act like sheeps. They just need something in their life since they dont have one of their own. No opinion since they havent been exposed to much anyway, can't blame them either. I went to College in S.C. sad to say but I didn't feel I was in the US, these states are still in the dark. Except from a few which wanted to break out of that mentality and created their own life.

Even more interesting is this article from the Birmingham newspaper. It's anti-boycott, but completely Anti-Aruba. Essentially, "boycott is meaningless, but there are a multitude of other reasons not to visit this corrupt cesspool"

Read it here:

http://tinyurl.com/8a892

alert, you are more ignorant than most alabamians making generalizations like that.

also, dan, you should consider the cost of living in alabamba. 35K is not the same there as it is up here.

Boycott or no boycott, Aruba is not a country worth visiting, unless you enjoy traveling four hours to a destination with attractions that you could easily find much closer to home. With the exception of a cluster of tourist hotels on the western side of the island, all of which offer beautiful beaches, conditions on most of the island prove that travel brochures are mostly hype.

Aruba is a 77-square-mile rock that reminds me more of a third-world banana republic than an island paradise. One might claim that the capital city Oranjestad is quaint with its shops and restaurants, but its campy atmosphere resembles Panama City Beach. Travel south on the island and you’ll find conditions that resemble Haiti; mostly cinder-block structures, trash littering front yards and roadsides, and seedy haunts that double for brothels, crack houses, and God knows what. The city of San Nicolas, at the southern end of the island, is constantly overwhelmed by the stench of gasoline from the island’s major oil refinery. There is nothing romantic about enjoying a beer and a hamburger in a local tourist trap while breathing high-octane trade winds.

There are other reasons not to visit Aruba, besides the fact that justice for a missing teenager has been sadly derailed. Aruba is a corrupt Caribbean island, and has been so for quite a long time. Today, drugs and money-laundering control an economy that is supposedly driven by 750,000 annual tourists, 70 percent of whom are from the United States.

According to CIA files made available to reporter Tom Brickman of the TNI Researcher, “within three years, between 1997 and 2000, Aruba rose from a ‘medium risk’ to a ‘high risk’ country in the State Department’s annual International Narcotics Control Strategy Report.” Aruba, through benefit of its Free Trade Zone status [areas that allow goods to be held then re-shipped elsewhere without paying an import or duty tax] provides the opportunity for bulk shipments of cocaine to pass through the area without the scrutiny of local officials. Free-zone facilities on Aruba continue to facilitate mass trans-shipments of cocaine and other illicit commodities from South America to the United States and Europe. Cocaine, heroin, and marijuana are readily available in Aruba at very modest prices, suggesting that the flow of drugs is heavy.

Aruba also plays a significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money-laundering. Crime organizations use offshore banking and incorporation systems, free-zone areas, and resort/casino complexes to transfer and launder drug proceeds. U.S. officials have long been concerned that money-laundering operations on the island direct large cash deposits into land development and other construction projects on the island, which are visible to anyone who visits.

Dutch officials are on record expressing concern about the island’s fate. According to Brickman’s article, Arthur Docters van Leeuwen, former Dutch Attorney General, said “Aruba is in the hands of some powerful families and Holland can’t do anything about it, due to constitutional restraints.” This fact was substantiated by a 1993 article in an Italian daily newspaper which reported that a Sicilian Mafia syndicate, specifically the Cuntrera and Caruana families, had acquired “over 60 percent of the island’s assets through investments in hotels and casinos, as well as the election campaign of the island’s Prime Minister.” Much of this clan went to prison in Italy in 1992 and their activities on the island suffered a major setback when they were exposed in an article in Business Week in 1996.

Today, the Mansur family is considered to be the largest player on the island. Many people I spoke to during my visit agree that few things happen on the island without their approval. Jossy Mansur, the editor of the island’s daily newspaper, Diario, has been a familiar face on cable news channels for the last six months despite the fact that his newspaper prints sensational stories about the Holloway case based on sketchy “inside” information that is less than credible. In fact, much of the information printed in his newspaper regarding Holloway’s disappearance has simply not been factual. Many believe, as I do, that Mansur is taking advantage of the Holloway case by utilizing the international media to drive his own personal political agenda against local officials. Up to now, Greta Van Susteren, Geraldo Rivera, and others have foolishly played into his game.

The problem I have with Aruba with respect to the Holloway case is that the judicial system is a virtual Twilight Zone. Very little of what you hear or read is real; there are only empty words and a few meaningless deeds. As for travel destinations, there are plenty of better island vacation spots than Aruba, and you surely don’t need Bob Riley to tell you that. &

Reminds me somehow of "deja vu" this boycott... However, like the other famous boycott campaign ..
U.S. companies will suffer more than the Island and NL in the long run due to a European / Rest of the world backlash against American goods.

From what I have read, most of the hotels and big business on Aruba, as well as most of the good and commodities offered for sale are from the US. So a boycott of Aruba is not only against the economy of Aruba and its people, but also against US investments. From an economic standpoint it is a lose lose.

As for Alabama, it is interesting that people who do not know (in person) many people from Alabama can make such broad claims about the state and its people. Fact is, there are highly educated people, uneducated, rich and poor, just like everywhere else.

Much of Alabama is rural and there are many small to medium farms that still are surviving. When the income for someone on a farm like this is reported, the investments back in the farm are subtracted from the gross, and this does not take into consideration that that folks on these farms grow crop and have large gardens, have cattle, pigs, chickens, and produce a lot of their food either directly and through swaps with neighbors. Thus, the amount of income cash needed for daily survival is not the same as someone who has to purchase their own food. Many of these people's incomes who appear to be low are actually quite wealthy and have large assets in land and property - farm equipment and animals. Further, may of them are true believers in "there is no place like home" and are not that interested in regular travel. Not to say that there aren't people into travel there, but for the farmers, it is a confining way of life and they are bonded to their land.

I cannot imagine that 2/3 of the people in Alabama are even aware of this case or what this hub bub is all about, nor were most of them every planning on going to Aruba anyway. If all the people in Alabama boycotted Aruba, it would not make a dent in their tourist trade.

I asked my mom who is a retired teacher in Alabama where she and her friends are talking about going. She had not heard of this case or the boycott. She said Aruba would not appeal to her as she likes history and classic art and the non island like terrains. She wants to go to Germany (my parents hosted a German foreign exchange student for a year and she wants to visit his country and family) and to Canada.

In response to Nelson about South Carolina. Yes, we do have a segment of the population that is in the dark; however, I think that you appear to put yourself in that group if you stereotype the state as a whole that way. We do have some colleges in South Carolina that are very weak. They accept very weak students. Is that why you attended school here? I have spent time in states outside the South, and they have their share of sheeple also.

boycotts dont work so this is all meaningless.

AL GLENN sorry but I only stayed for 6 months in the South, I could not bare the injustice and the southern mentality sorry, so I left for NYC, where more educated people reside.

You know Dan, there are some really hard working songle mothers in NEW JERSEY that make about as much as those Alabamians you keep pokin' at. I think you should watch your tone, and learn that some people that have high respect for you, can be offended at the snide, rude, and orrogant nature you have been having. Do you have a problem or something? Mid-life crisis? stress? cause really, you just insulted me BIG TIME.

Well seems like its OK thought to insult anything thats Aruba but you can't insult the South!!

Dan, you would have to be a raving lunatic to think the people of Alabama would have to have a free trip to Aruba to go there. Please don't show your ignorance at this late date!!!

there are some really hard working songle mothers in NEW JERSEY that make about as much as those Alabamians you keep pokin' at

I dont keep poking at anyone - I'm merely stating the facts regarding Ala incomes and how income can relate to ones ability to travel. You're reading into it things I didn't say.

Nelson,
Since you recognize where the more educated people are, I am surprised that you do not have a better command of the English language. Examples:
it's means it is; its is possessive;
bare mean naked or uncovered;
sheeps - awkward at least
their life should be their lives since their is plural and life is singular;
dont =don't
a few which? - who and whom refer to people;
frequent run-on sentences.
As for insulting Aruba, I am a strong defender of Aruba. They are a sovereign country, and we have no right to interfere in their investigation. The Alabama officials calling for a boycott are totally out of line and should be reigned in by the State Department. Beth Twitty has her following all over the U.S., not just the South. Most of the people I know think that she is a nut who wants only money and the spotlight. Personally, I am all for setting up a fund to help the three suspects with their legal expenses. I really think that we agree on the basics. I simply thnk you make a mistake when you stereotype.

Very true but sometimes I get personal e-mail to my account and most of them are from the South. I do apoligize for the comments, but also I mentioned there are a few that are not like that.

Boycott or no boycott, Aruba is not a country worth visiting, unless you enjoy traveling four hours to a destination with attractions that you could easily find much closer to home. With the exception of a cluster of tourist hotels on the western side of the island, all of which offer beautiful beaches, conditions on most of the island prove that travel brochures are mostly hype.

Aruba is a 77-square-mile rock that reminds me more of a third-world banana republic than an island paradise. One might claim that the capital city Oranjestad is quaint with its shops and restaurants, but its campy atmosphere resembles Panama City Beach. Travel south on the island and you’ll find conditions that resemble Haiti; mostly cinder-block structures, trash littering front yards and roadsides, and seedy haunts that double for brothels, crack houses, and God knows what. The city of San Nicolas, at the southern end of the island, is constantly overwhelmed by the stench of gasoline from the island’s major oil refinery. There is nothing romantic about enjoying a beer and a hamburger in a local tourist trap while breathing high-octane trade winds.

There are other reasons not to visit Aruba, besides the fact that justice for a missing teenager has been sadly derailed. Aruba is a corrupt Caribbean island, and has been so for quite a long time. Today, drugs and money-laundering control an economy that is supposedly driven by 750,000 annual tourists, 70 percent of whom are from the United States.

According to CIA files made available to reporter Tom Brickman of the TNI Researcher, “within three years, between 1997 and 2000, Aruba rose from a ‘medium risk’ to a ‘high risk’ country in the State Department’s annual International Narcotics Control Strategy Report.” Aruba, through benefit of its Free Trade Zone status [areas that allow goods to be held then re-shipped elsewhere without paying an import or duty tax] provides the opportunity for bulk shipments of cocaine to pass through the area without the scrutiny of local officials. Free-zone facilities on Aruba continue to facilitate mass trans-shipments of cocaine and other illicit commodities from South America to the United States and Europe. Cocaine, heroin, and marijuana are readily available in Aruba at very modest prices, suggesting that the flow of drugs is heavy.

Aruba also plays a significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money-laundering. Crime organizations use offshore banking and incorporation systems, free-zone areas, and resort/casino complexes to transfer and launder drug proceeds. U.S. officials have long been concerned that money-laundering operations on the island direct large cash deposits into land development and other construction projects on the island, which are visible to anyone who visits.

AL GLENN sorry but I only stayed for 6 months in the South, I could not bare the injustice and the southern mentality sorry, so I left for NYC, where more educated people reside.

Posted by: nelson | Nov 20, 2005 10:11:41 PM

____________

You have to be kidding. There are no people on the planet that are more self-centered than people in the sewer known as New York City. The attitude of New Yorkers is hurrah for me to hell hell with you.

I think there are more than you think who feel as we do. Come visit me anytime in the South and I will show you the other side.

Carlos for your information the money laundering business is as well controlled like it is here in the US. Secondly Aruba works closely with the US reference Drug traffic, ever heard of FOL?. The US has planes based in Aruba to fly around the area to deter the smugglers. Also you have to remember the drugs are not destined to Aruba, they are merely in transit to Europe and the US, where the consumers are, maybe just maybe these countries had a smaller appetite for all these drugs, Aruba would not be that much in the picture. Secondly the same way the drug enter the US it enters through the borders of Aruba, you cannot just control it all. You dont have to show your hatred to the island by bashig it, if you didn't like it while you were there just say so, dont have to start penny pitching. Some people love it and some don't Aruba can't please everybody, but it sure does alot since they keep coming back over and over again. You have been there obviously but then again free country and we can go where we please and say so also. But dont have to over-react just to show your displeasure regarding something has nothing to do with the island itself.

Wow can really feel the anger this evening!! Thanks Rob, but we are allready in HELL, but seems like you are closer though.

Thanks Glenn, likewise if you ever decide to come up here.

Nelson,
I agree with you about Rob's post. New York City is a wonderful place. Yes, like the South, it has some problems. I have been a frequent visitor to the city and have always enjoyed the stay. Again, I say don't stereotype. You can find good poeple everywhere.

I live in Virginia. My neighbor is an agent for a travel agency. Her company is now mandating that she not only informs anyone who wants to book to Aruba knows of the boycott and why. Should they choose to go ahead and book to Aruba they are asked to sign that the agent made them aware of the boycott.

Awareness is being delivered to the American Public.

Isn't it not early to know if the called boycott is effective? A better time to measure if the boycott is effective is in six months.

Aruba may get hurt a little JCBOBS but they are allready diversifying their market and they are getting huge support from England and Scandinavia. So for the Americans who wants to visit Aruba they know they are always welcome and alot still go to Aruba, each individuals have their own opinion and can choose where to go and where not. Some Americans encountered these issues where a travel agent refused to sell them the package to Aruba, well they just walked out and went to another travel agent, nowadays with the internet bookings, travel agents are the ones loosing money since they livelyhood is based on commision.

It's sad to see people put down the south, it has it's advantages and disadvantages just like every other place. I agree that $35,000 income in Alabama would go alot further than say New York. But, some of us actually prefer to live in the South, and only visit other places. There are plenty of intelligent, generous, properous, people in the South. I can think of some things that wouldn't attract me to live in New York, but I have enjoyed a visit there. Please, you that are quick to put down other areas than where you live, don't show us your ignorance!

And, Dan, maybe you would like to let us know just how smart you are and what you income is like? And, let us judge what we think of you as you are doing of those from Alabama?

Ja - blah blah blah

I'm not judging anyone - all I did was link to some financial data from the Census and suggest the realities as regards the poll. Ask yourself why that troubles you so much if you want to know who has the problem here.

The south has a much lower cost of living also
So naturally the wages would be lower

The south has a much lower cost of living also
So naturally the wages would be lower

True - and I also posted right above as regards the generous nature of some of the southern states. It's not news that people see what they want to see in every post. No one is accusing me of flag waving for the South in the post above. eh.

yes some are very generous.. Alot opened there homes and hearts to the hurricane victims
Says alot about the type of People down there :)

Isn't it not early to know if the called boycott is effective? A better time to measure if the boycott is effective is in six months.

Posted by: jcbobs | Nov 20, 2005 11:15:34 PM

IMO your right there.. most people will not canel trips already purchased, I know I wouldnt..
It will be future trips that will be hit harder..
I think this whole thing is going to get way worse before it gets better..I dont see the investigation going anywhere.. and If there is ANY truth to what Goverment and Police Offical have said in comments .. it is Not helping the situation in Aruba at all.. I know if I was against the boycott and heard goverment officals comparing our war screws up to NAtalle's disappearence i wouldnt be happy there is NO comparison

I guess I am seeing the Upper 20% of Alabama here.
There is a group from Alabama here enjoying themselves.
At first, 2 days ago, I thought it was just this one gentleman. But today he told me they were with a group and he introduced me to some of them. Very nice and softspoken group of people. The casino of their choice is the Marriott Stellaris Casino. It felt good seeing them here.
Beth and Jug know that casino inside out.
It was also their favorit when they were here.

I don't think it's wise for representatives of the 65% lower than 50.000 income group to come to Aruba.
It will hurt their wallet too much. But I think they can have some fun on the Mississipi. Nice and cozy.

Posted by: Carlos | Nov 20, 2005 10:53:48 PM

And I guess they told you they were laundering money.
Some people and some companies just have 'clean' money they want to invest.

"It's sad to see people put down the south, it has it's advantages and disadvantages just like every other place. I agree that $35,000 income in Alabama would go alot further than say New York. But, some of us actually prefer to live in the South, and only visit other places. There are plenty of intelligent, generous, properous, people in the South. I can think of some things that wouldn't attract me to live in New York, but I have enjoyed a visit there. Please, you that are quick to put down other areas than where you live, don't show us your ignorance!

Posted by: Ja | Nov 21, 2005 12:54:11 AM"

What goes around comes around and people from the south deserve any nasty comments made.

People in the south resent northeners and midwesterners. People from the south are extremely predjudice, small minded, mean spirited towards anyone from the north or midwest which they refer to as "Yankee's" .

I know southerners, we were driving thru Houston Texas in the 80's with a Illinois license plate, a bunch of rednecks in a pickup with shotguns on the back of their truck harassed us and made us go off the road.

We lived in Texas and were insulted every day we were there. Hated it! Relatives who visited us could not believe the attitude of the natives, in the midwest we would never think of insulting anyone regardless where they were from. Talk about culture shock. They had a I-am-better-than-you attitude everywhere we went. All this southern hospitality bull-shit is just that!

NO ONE could ever convince me southerners are anything but small minded, mean spirited, unfriendly bunch. And the HEAT was so extreme in Texas, it could actually kill a person but yet they would brag about it like it was something to enjoy.

California has the best weather in all of the U.S.
People are more laid back but don't insult someone that is not from there.

I think the reason southerners treat others who are not from there because they have a phobia against strangers, they feel their ignorance will show and they can't accept that.

Posted by: Carlos | Nov 20, 2005 8:14:43 PM

Nice article, shame however that those who pretend to be intelligent use this 10 years old information to bash an island or just to accomplish a goal.

I just got back from France and felt safer there-even with the riots! Anyway, the Eiffel Tower and Monet have Aruba beat.

I have a question, we have friends that are gay, a lesbian coupple and allso two men who are dating for quite a while now. They always go together on holiday just because it's fun. You don't actually see them doing gay-stuff or licking each other off in front of other people or something like that, so if you see them walking, you wouldn't say that it is a gay coupple (not holding hands in public etc.) They do this only when they're on vacation because gay thing is still a taboo in much places around the world. I remember few years back they went to Jamaica and one way or another, I don't remember all the details, but they were spotted as walking together on a beach hand in hand (the boys: it was the first time they did this) and since that day, they got foul looks from the natives or the macho men would make fun of them when they were passing by and stuff like that. It wasn't much fun for them, Jamaica is a real anti-gay paradise so they had a pretty hard time there. That is why they never walk hands now when they are on vacation in the carribeans.
Does anyone know how the people of Aruba think about gays and lesbians? If they would go there on holiday, could they walk freely and show emotions without being laughed at or even worse, get a beating or something?
It would be nice to know if someone knows this? And are there places people who are gay can go to? A bar disco etc.??
I don't know with all the commotion going around with Natalee, if they will go down there but the info is quite welcome so they can be prepared for it.
Offcourse, they are praying for Natalee just as I do and many of us here in Belgium.

I know of no one who is boycotting Aruba. Two friends are going next week, Two just got back. Another will spend Christmas there for about the 11th or 12th time. They say it is clean, beautiful and restful, with a good golf course.

They also hope for the best of resolutions for Natalee - but think a boycott is malicious and seeks to make political tools/activists out of folks who work in the resorts and tourism. services.

Elisafanbelgium --> Same sex marriage is legal in Holland .. Since Aruba is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands .. your friends should not have any pblms to do whatever they feel like doing in Aruba ! Peace !

I think that this says quite a bit about the hypocrites from Alabama....

Most Dangerous Cities:

1. Camden, N.J.

2. Detroit

3. St. Louis

4. Flint, Mich.

5. Richmond, Va.

6. Baltimore

7. Atlanta

8. New Orleans

9. Gary, Ind.

10. Birmingham, Ala.

* ___

Source: Morgan Quitno Press

I'll admit - I grabbed my HillBilly teeth set and had a good laugh at Alabama's expense re: the income chart Dan linked, until I checked out my own State - the People's Republik of CA. Doesn't look much different. SO I guess regardless of the state you live in - anyone with the discipline to save $$ could go to Aruba regularly - or anywhere else they wanted for that matter.

We may not have the highest income in the USA, but like was said earlier the cost of living here is not what it is in alot of places either. I have lived in Alabama all my life and love it, there is no place I would rather be and while there are uneducated, poor people that live here, I hate to break it to all you self righteous holier than thou people you have them in your state to. I find it very offensive the way you all are posting about Alabama, probably most of you have never even visited here.

What the hell Dan? Were you not getting anywhere supporting Aruba, that you had to start attacking us. (Alabama) My family income is over $100,000 a year, I could afford to go anywhere I want to, and I will never go to Aruba! Sure there are lower income people in Alabama, the same can be said for every state in the Union. Check you states figures!

I do not appreciate your attitude about Alabama.

I lived in Orlando, Florida area and a New York suburb, and I prefer New York. I found that when you move to an area with low cost housing,
you have to live with the rif-raf too, twelve people in one house,
people using their homes as car body shops, painting and repairing
ten cars on their lawn and polluting the air, etc. After three
employees at my international company had their children shot dead
for various reasons, and these kids were all innocent bystanders,
I moved out and went back to NY, it's much safer in my Northern suburb.

Sometimes the native Floridians would make fun of my northern accent,
and call me Yankee. The southerners would tell me they know
Northerners don't like them, and think they are slow and stupid because
of their southern accent, but I would tell them I never heard one
New Yorker make any disparaging remarks against a southerner, not once.

I think some of the southern old-timers are still fighting the civil war in a sense from some of the comments they would make.

Eiffel Tower and Monet have Aruba beat.

Posted by: hockeygirl | Nov 21, 2005 7:33:01 AM

When it comes to culture absolutely true, when it comes to friendly people. I would say NO!!!! And yes I've been to France, more than once.

Carlos

You must be a very unhappy man, I guess you're from Eden or so where everything is perfect. And no construction can be seen anywhere, lucky person!! How could people go to a place where there is construction, oh my God!!!

Carlos, what a waste of brain cells and bandwith. Are you from Alabama!?

Your description of Aruba, even if correct, could be any place in the world and certainly our great USofA.

With the Bronx next door, should people stay away from Manhatten/New York a.k.a. the greatest city in the world? Or would you recommend a boycott of LA (Beverly Hills/Hollywood etc) because of South Central LA? Talk about reminding you of third world countries! There is one difference though; The lesser neighborhoods in Aruba have non-existent violent crime. Even a tourist is safe there.

Government corruption!??? How about Halliburton, Tom Delay/Jack Abramoff, Bill Frist/HCA stock, Libby, etc. etc.

Drugs! Americans are among the largest drug consumers in the world, so how do those drugs come in? If the mighty USA cannot stop the drugs from coming in, how reasonable is it to expect little Aruba with little resources to do so.

Finally Carlos, you are living in the past. The State Dept and the DEA are touting Aruba as a model for cooperation and fighting the drug trade and money laudering with the US.

Oh and by the way, I've been to both Aruba and Panama City Beach. The latter consists of 50 Carlos 'n Charlie's, subpar hotel accomodations and a brown beach with brown water. We have all seen the pictures of Aruba.

Get a grip.

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