Kara Beth Borden: A Victim Of David Ludwig

Warwick Township Police Chief Richard Garipoli stated Kara Beth Borden is considered a victim of David Ludwig at this time and not a suspect. He also mentioned the need for a guardian to be appointed before the 14 year-old can be questioned. It remains to be seen if she had any role in the double murders for which Ludwig is a suspect.

Kara Borden is said to be devastated and crying a great deal. Ludwig's parents are said to be co-operating with police.

“We belive(sic) that Kara was taken against her will and until I hear otherwise Kara is a victim and our main priority is to get her back here with her family,” said Chief Garipoli.

David Ludwig is suspected of fatally shooting Kara’s parents after an argument stemmed regarding their daughter’s curfew. story

Additional coverage here with more at Steve Huff's Dark Side Blog.

Comments

[Bigfish]

MSM had already begun their villification process by blaming Kara, home schooling, and of all things, attempting to link this tragedy to the Ammish. Rita Cosby SUCKS! JMO :(

BF

[lawbster]

i'd be very interested to know what kara posted as well as to whom she posted on her website on sunday morning. who called david ludwig back to the house?...this does not smell right, sorry Bigfish, i was gonna say fishy, but seriously. i do hope we get to hear both stories. she may be a victim and then again she may not.

[Bigfish]

i'd be very interested to know what kara posted as well as to whom she posted on her website on sunday morning. who called david ludwig back to the house?...this does not smell right, sorry Bigfish, i was gonna say fishy, but seriously. i do hope we get to hear both stories. she may be a victim and then again she may not.

Posted by: lawbster | Nov 15, 2005 3:46:42 PM

I totally agree. IMO, too early for MSM to start deamonizing a 14 year old.

My theory is that the parents found out about a sexual relationship and were going to the police.
This threat set off the shooter as he knew he was going to jail.. Can't imagine the 14 yo wanting her parents killed for a 1 day jaunt without a plan. Surley she cared about her siblings.

BF

[Bitsey]

My theory is that the parents found out about a sexual relationship and were going to the police.
This threat set off the shooter as he knew he was going to jail.. Can't imagine the 14 yo wanting her parents killed for a 1 day jaunt without a plan. Surley she cared about her siblings.

BF
Posted by: Bigfish | Nov 15, 2005 4:01:37 PM

My theory is that the boy was on anti-depressants and was suicidal. That's why he had guns in the car. David reminds me so much of our daughter's former boyfriend, it's scary. They need to unravel this right back to David's homelife to see what triggered this tragedy.

[Lisa]

My big thing, (especially being the parent of 3 boys, ages 18, 16 and 10), is this rape issue. I think it is horribly unfair that a boy who has CONSENSUAL sex with a girl can be charged with rape. Even an older female with a boy. Like the woman on TV last night that was arrested for having sex with a 15 year old boy. She was 32, they had just got married & she is spending her honeymoon in jail. I believe she is also pregnant. These kids know what they are doing. This is just the parents way of trying to blame someone else for their child having sex. A 14-year old is plenty old enough to say no.

[Lisa]

Not that I know if rape would have been an issue here, but just the thought of an 18 year old having consensual sex with his/her sweetheart landing them on the sexual offenders list makes me VERY ANGRY.

[Kelly3]

I think a confrontation with Kara happened when she got home Sunday morning. Did you see the window to the upper part of the house? The screen was pushed out. Parents may have said to Kara they were calling the police and Kara may have tried to warn David. For David to bring guns to the home he was planning something. My daughter is 13 and I would be out for bear if she was seeing an 18 year old. Does anyone else think it is strange that no family member went to Indiana? I wonder if the family wonders if she had a part in this? Just so sad.

[cindi in pa]

attempting to link this tragedy to the Ammish. Rita Cosby SUCKS! JMO :(

BF

Posted by: Bigfish | Nov 15, 2005 3:33:35 PM

WOW, have not seen t he news today. My experience with the \Amish people here in Pa, is they are wonderful, protective parents. Much like the parents we would like our own children to associate with.

[Isanah]

sexual offenders list makes me VERY ANGRY.

Posted by: Lisa | Nov 15, 2005 4:57:36 PM

I agree, however, it is the law and we, as parents, need to educate our teens. As far as the older woman, again, it is the law and the 15yr old boys have no say in the manner. Shoot, when I was a teen and had to live by these age restrictions (18, 14) half my friends would have been in prison!

Ironically, this kid being on a sex offender list would have been nothing compared to what he will get now! Not a pretty thought as to what he is in for in prison being so young and 'pretty'. What is going on with so many teens making such horrible choices and committing such awful crimes.

[Isanah]

Meant 15 yr olds parents have no say, the police can press charges.

[jadensmokes]

Posted by: Kelly3: |
Does anyone else think it is strange that no family member went to Indiana? I wonder if the family wonders if she had a part in this?

The other family members - 2 siblings older, 2 siblings younger (one who witnessed the murder of her father) are probably in shock and want to stay together until Kara is returned to them at home. I don't think as a young adult in my early 20's I would want to leave my three younger siblings to go to Indiana. Kara is safe and protected by the police at the moment. JMO

These poor kids, what a thing to have to witness and endure.

How can these children with guns be so callous, cold and calculating in their shooting of others? How are American children different from children in other countries that don't seem to have these problems?

Lisa-

I don't think the police or the public are as much concerned with the "rape vs consensual sex" thing as they are with the calculated murder of this child's parents. Again, JMO

[jill]

BF - I agree, Rita Cosby very much sucks - I won't watch her for anything, even if Steve Huff is on.

I read that the windows and screens were broken or pushed out by LE, who were trying to clear the house of the tear gas they tossed in there.

I think its strange that the kid had a weapon with him - obviously he was there to commit a crime.

[angela]

BF - I agree, Rita Cosby very much sucks -
Posted by: jill | Nov 15, 2005 6:18:02 PM

Rita Cosby is the next Nancy Grace.

[cindi in pa]

Reports state, Kara arrived home well after the time she was to be home. The parents called the young man to the home to confront him on that and his web site posts.

For gods sake if your that afraid of a girlfirend's father why even go over in the first place. Let alone take a gun.

A 14 yr old is not old enough to consent to sex. They may think they are, but that's a different story. There are laws that have to be followed, doesn't matter how consensual they may think it is.

[watcher]

attempting to link this tragedy to the Ammish. Rita Cosby SUCKS! JMO :(

BF

Posted by: Bigfish | Nov 15, 2005 3:33:35 PM

WOW, have not seen t he news today. My experience with the \Amish people here in Pa, is they are wonderful, protective parents. Much like the parents we would like our own children to associate with.

Posted by: cindi in pa | Nov 15, 2005 5:51:25 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Amish have nothing to do with this case whatsoever. The families are Christian, not sure what churches exactly.
These news people have no idea what they are talking about. Every time I watch the news, I see some stupid "expert" going on about something he/she doesn't know about.

[Lori]

I live about 25 miles from where this all happened. According to Kara's Xanga blog (now shut down), I believe she was a member of Ephrata Christian Church, which is in the heart of Amish country, but definitely not Amish.

As for 14-year olds not knowing about sex...I would heartily disagree. I lost my virginity at 14...granted, my boyfriend at the time was also 14, but still...we knew exactly what we were doing.

I think that Kara may be/may have been pregnant with David's child. The Lancaster Online newspaper site alluded to a conversation Kara had had with another friend that leads me to believe she might've gotten pregnant. Excerpt from the article:

"On this site is posted an online conversation she apparently had with a friend on Oct. 17 about her relationship with Ludwig.

In the chat, the friend notes that she wants to have a talk with Kara because “things are getting out of hand.” (Spelling, abbreviations and punctuation appear as they do on the Web site.)

Kara tells the friend, “it doesn’t have anything to do with you...if it has to do with david and me. we are taking care of it. we know what we are going to do.”

The friend says she is worried about Kara and thinks she is lying to her.

“I know what’s right anddddd so does he,” Kara replies, adding later, “this is between me and him. ... don’t try to help. it will only make things worse.”

“so what you want me to just back off and totally ignore you two and let you make the mistakes you’re making!?!?!,” the friend says. “i can’t do that!”

Kara is 14 and Ludwig is 18, the friend notes, adding, “obviously you don’t care nuff that David may go to jail.”

Kara replies, “you don’t know how we feel about each other and how much we want to be with each others.”

The friend tells her she can’t keep it a secret anymore.

“who are you gonna tell?” Kara replies. “Hm. his rents. mine. thanks a lot. ... i though you sid you would die then rat us out.”

The friend says she won’t tell Kara’s parents but that “you two are gonna have to talk to me.”

Kara replies, “don’t get in the middle of it. you have no idea what me and him are going through so jst leave it alone. ... i will talk to him and we shall talk to you.”

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/18619

[absynth_minded]

Even people of "faith" face spiritual pitfalls and sin... I can't get over how people act so shocked when a "religious" person commits an atrocious act.
If we have learned one thing by now it should be that humans are capable of ANYTHING.

I suppose this is what allows men of God to rape children or a man of God to rape his own child...

We can think we know someone or a family well, but what do we really know about what goes on when the doors are closed?

We should also realize that there are many different perversions of religion. Look no further than our own soil and the Religious Right nut jobs that blow up abortion clinics, often taking lives in the name of God....

As for the knock on home schooling, yes, it can be a place where this type of theology and ideology is bred (look at the White-Power "Nationalist" singing twins of Prussian Blue.) This of course depends on the parents, who are ultimately responsible for the seeds they've sown and what types of life lessons they've nurtured their seeds with.

Generalizing is dangerous... of course not ALL home schooled children will become killers, but a lot do have trouble with developing social skills.

The again, so do many kids who go to public and private school..

The root of the seed is planted at HOME, that's where the answers to these questions can usually be found.

[watcher]

Generalizing is dangerous... of course not ALL home schooled children will become killers, but a lot do have trouble with developing social skills.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL! better do some research if you believe that old myth...

here's some places to start:

Study Finds Home Schooled Children Better at Social Skills
By Dawn Rizzoni
CNSNews.com Correspondent
October 23, 2001
http://www.come-over.to/homeschool/socialskills.htm
....................
Social Skills and Homeschooling: Myths and Facts
Isabel Shaw
http://familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,58-17910,00.html
................................
Socialization: A Great Reason Not to Go to School
http://learninfreedom.org/socialization.html

[josie]

This is very interesting. How come when a public school kid takes a gun and kills kids at school everyone doesn't blame it on the school system or the "religious-ie: evolution" teachings at the school? Not all that call themselves Christians are Christians. True Christians do not only believe IN God-they believe God and part of that believing is following the teachings of Jesus ie: love thy enemy-do good to those who mistreat you-live a life pleasing to God, etc. A true Christian would never hurt a child or kill a person. My heart goes out to the children of these parents, I am so sorry.
P.S. I know lots of homeschool children in our community and they seem to be alot more social and friendly than public school kids. Actually, my parents, who own an insurance agency were advised to hire homeschoolers as they are better adjusted and harder workers. Sorry , who this offends, but it was just what I heard.

[absynth_minded]

LOL! better do some research if you believe that old myth...

here's some places to start:

You should probably reread the line: "This of course depends on the parents, who are ultimately responsible for the seeds they've sown and what types of life lessons they've nurtured their seeds with."

Meaning, the children will learn and act upon what the parents DO or DO NOT teach them...

As for the "True Christian" stuff, true Christians are people and people DO sin...............................

[Bigfish]

At one time, I didn't agree with home schooling. I know many people that home school and I am aquainted with some that have been doing it for three or four generations.

My only reason for not liking home schooling initially was my concern that with private schools and home schooling, it would weaken the public system.

As we live and learn, my opinion has changed and now completely understand why people home school.
Thank God in the USA we have the choices.

Home schooling has nothing to do with this case.
The MSM beast has once again reared it's ugly head! JMO :(

Bigfish

[amused]

MY DICK CANT STOP LAUGHING AT THAT STORY!!!!!

[Nic]

I think she was def preg,Sh*t hit the fan & her parents went mad & wanted 2 kill him 4 bedding there little girl,so Kara warned David & told him 2 get round 2 her house quick time,so,he did & put a cap each in Mum + Dad,young love,crazy!

[Kathleen Fischer]

Does the young man have any information posted about him. 54 guns reported in home. A collection?
A shooter's paradise? We are hunting deer here in
Wisconsin this weekend. Who is linking this to Amish? A newscaster? Missed that part.

[Taylor]

so she did have sex with him? did she confess to it or where's this info. coming from?

[Mdog]

look at her pic in the blue shirt - shes a hottie

[Damsil]

Pregnant? Where'd that info come from?

Geez......

Have you people nothing better to do than to speculate and spread rumors??

Two people are dead...5 children are now orphans..and an enitre community has been victimized.

David Ludwig will have his day and in court, and on that day the details of this sad tragedy will be disclosed.

As far as Kara Borden is concerned....She's a 14 year old kid...was she involved in her parents murder? In time we will all learn the answer to that question too. In the meantime, instead of speculating about what she did or didn't do, we should be praying for her. Lord knows Kara will now have to live the rest of her life defined by this tragedy. She will most certainly live for many years with unimaginable guilt and pain, and will probably forever blame herself for what happened to her family. Imagine that last conversation she had with her parents. How utterly sad and heart wrenching it all is.

These families (the Borden and the Ludwigs) are not personally familiar to me but they could be anyone I know....I pray for BOTH families...The Ludwigs must being going through the most nightmarish time of their lives...I'm sure that they didn't raise their child to do what he is accused of doing. I'm sure that they are finding it hard to love him unconditionally and still come to terms and accept his actions...Ask yourself what you would be thinking, feeling or doing if you were in either of these families shoes? According to news reports these are two Christian families...imagine the spiritual struggle going on for them.

So......instead of everyone speculating and playing arm chair lawyers...take a moment and offer up your prayers for these families, and especially for the Borden children.

[contract]

In my opinion this girl is A leg spreading whore.
It has been substantiated that she was sending nude photos of herself to his comp site. So I am very sure that she was having sex with him. what girl sending nude pics isn't trying to turn the guy on. Let it also be noted that the 14 of yesteryear is not the 14 of today. These girls are alot more sexually active and damn well know what they are doing. I have personally been hit on by girls 16 and younger ande had to literally walk away. sometimes they even mock you for not wnating to sleep with them. It's a damn shame that 2 people are dead because this idiot couldn't control her sex drive.

[contract]

In my opinion this girl is A leg spreading whore.
It has been substantiated that she was sending nude photos of herself to his comp site. So I am very sure that she was having sex with him. what girl sending nude pics isn't trying to turn the guy on. Let it also be noted that the 14 of yesteryear is not the 14 of today. These girls are alot more sexually active and damn well know what they are doing. I have personally been hit on by girls 16 and younger ande had to literally walk away. sometimes they even mock you for not wnating to sleep with them. It's a damn shame that 2 people are dead because this idiot couldn't control her sex drive.

[PA1984]

Unfortunately "contract" you come off as very bitter towards women; "A leg spreading whore"? Who knows whether she was sexually forward or not, but she and David were involved in a relationship. Many people in relationships trade pictures with each other, and whether that is right or wrong it doesn't make someone a whore. Perhaps it was an indiscriminate choice, but did you every consider that perhaps David pressured her into sending these photos? No, the 14 year old of yesteryear is not the 14 year old of today, but that does not mean that all 14 year old girls are ready and eager to spread their legs to any boy who comes along; being older, I'm sure David had great influence over her. Finally, why not label David a whore for accepting whatever leg spreading may have occurred, or labeling him a loser (at best) or a predator (at worst) for not dating someone his own age? Try to at least be fair.

[HisDeb2222]

Fact: If there is a 4 year or more difference between the boy and girl then it is a second degree felony.....even if it is consentual. It is sad to know that this even happend but right now what I see are a whole lot of rumors spread by the press and the willing public. The only people who know what happened and why are Kara and David. Oh yeah....God knows too and he is the real judge here, not us.

[dan]

Regardless of his past or his mental well being, I hope the prosecutor pursues the death penalty for david. Also if the girl knew he was going to kill her parents she should also be charged with being accompliance.

If there old enough to be enganed in an adult sexual realationship as many of you have stated (which from what i've read is speculation)then they should be old enough to be held responsiable for there actions.

[contract]

Well now the procecuter's office said it will drop all kidnapping charges against Ludwig. Ludwig states that after the killings he couldn't even find Kara. Then she came running down the road, Git into his car and said ....Lets get as far away from here as possible and get married. HMmmmmmmmmmm And this little Bit#h is still free??? She should be put to death right along with him. My god her sibling witnessed the killings. Can you imagine how traumatic it must be for them to see that?? Kara couldn't care less that she wrecked her sisters life forever, And yes it might be a little hypocritcal of me to say well put the sister to death now too, But she is no sister she is a monster. Because of her this child will have no parents to attend her future school functions, graduation, Give her away at the alter, See their grandchildren..Etc. And yes it's just as much Kara's fault as is Davids.