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Tuesday, November 08, 2005

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» HarryTho 11/8 Natalee Holloway Update And Commentary from Hyscience
Clearly, the Aruban authorities, without the helpful hints of the Mansurs, have determined that the Mountain Brook teens and the Twitty-Holloway camp hold valuable information that could resolve this case. [Read More]

» HarryTho 11/8 Natalee Holloway Update And Commentary from Hyscience
Clearly, the Aruban authorities, without the helpful hints of the Mansurs, have determined that the Mountain Brook teens and the Twitty-Holloway camp hold valuable information that could resolve this case. [Read More]

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Can't argue with CRIME statistics like that, very good reason to boycott Alabama ;)

dan, you always know how to make me laugh. Excellent angle. I bet they never thought someone would go through the trouble of finding the statistics. Glad you did. ah, but that is why I keep checking your site...you never know what you're going to do...you keep us guessing!

Yes but where are the stats on the Alabama LE and Govt letting people get away with murder and rape?

This is a clear example why there is so much hate against the United States of Anerica.

I just gotta laff at your slam about alabama...is this the best you can do...I really thought you had a little more on the ball...weak...very weak...can ya contribute something to the thought process..other than numbers..I realize you are tryin to get as many hits on this site as you can...but come on...

Thank you for shedding some light on Alabama's piss poor job of fighting crime, especially in their horrible job of unsolved murders.....and has anyone called for a boycott of Alabama? Would any one be crying like they are if this were a black girl from a poor family in Montgomery? Any one with a non bias mind, and sound judgement knows the answer to this!!!! How about this, Gov Riley find the answers to all of the unsolved murders in Alabama, esp the ones that involve poor black girl's......then a few more folks may give a little more attention to this upper class white girl! Do your job in Alabama properly, quit being a biggot, and if your so unhappy about the Arubian justice system, get your ass over there and change it!

I am simply amazed at the hate these beth groupies have for anyone who disagrees with anything not beth generated. They support every lie this woman utters and bashes anyone that even questions her outright lies. Where do these vigilants come from? These must be the ignorant Americans the rest of the world refers to as the UGLY Americans. Aruba is well rid of this trash. Let the decent Americans continue to visit the happy island and the haters can go to that cultureless redneck Alabama and sip Kool Aid with the twitty's.

actually..alabama has had quite a number of boycotts which have led to successful conclusions..for those doing the boycotting..a product of alabama successfully and finally prosecuted and had convicted those responsible for the 16th st. church bombing...because not all forgot and not all would give up...

Mountain Brook is a very wealthy community with a lot of political pull. I can't help but think this boycott idea is not somehow connected to help Gov. Riley's position in Alabama Politics. You can't have your major money donors from Mountain Brook mad at you and have much of a political future.

Any government/le has to answer to it's people. The aruba people are too "nice" to give their government the hard time they deserve for all the mistakes,coverup, uncaring, arrogance, stalling, etc... in this case. Would a boycot be justified if it was the presidents' daughter?

WELL WELL…
TO ALL SANE AMERICANS.

*** LET'S ALL BOYCOTT ALABAMA, BOYCOTT ALABAM ***

BETH TWITTY IS NOW THE TERRORIST TERRORIZING A SMALL ISLAND...ARUBA.

IS THIS REALLY NECESSARY???
WILL IT HELP GETTING BACK NATALLY???

YOU DAMNED STUPID FOOLS....

RE: Dan I can see your point But
How can you compare a 52,423 square mile state
with a 77 square mile island?

Posted by: Sue

No wonder americans suck at math compared to the rest of the world. Dan was refering to RATES of crime per 100,000 population, or to translate that to easy: about the same population as Aruba. To top the violent crime rate of 486.2 there would have to be more than one murder a day in Aruba. That would make this a hell hole worse than Mexico and Jamaica put together.

All states have crime, and generally some forms of crime are more elevated than other statistical variants (rape vs murder vs burglary vs theft, etc.) To pull out Alabama's most current crime record, due to a Governor's boycott petition, is rather pointless and moot. Neither Aruba is going to suffer from an Alabama called boycott, nor is Alabama going to make a significant impression in the Aruban tourism. We all know that. And yes, yes. I see your point of telling the Gov. he should "Clean his home before you telling others how to clean there's." But I am certain that Alabama, like Aruba, is doing what the current governments are willing, or capable, of achieving presently in law enforcement and justice. Successfully or not. And since no state or no nation is sinless, pointing out their crime index is petty. Especially, used as a retort at an official's attempt at doing "something"...anything, in a bid to get somewhere! No matter how futile or realistic it may be.

Also, I wonder what the Aruban crime index has jotted down for young, drunk and drugged Americans who go to chortle, insult, sex the population and cause general mayhem...

And this means Beth will be honoring her own boycott too right?

RE: To all you stupid fucks that can't grasp the fact that the Aruban & Dutch goverments have been complicit in the dispoaal of her natalee's body as well as been complicit in her cover up.
So that's why there is goping to be a boycott. You bunch of stupid cock suckers.

Posted by: justice

Oh great! Now you don't only suck in math, but also in spelling your own language! Discussing this topic is mindless Dan, because no matter what dirty laundry you bring out against the boycotters they will always get into the same banter ad nauseam about there being somehow a flawed investigation. Do you know how good Alabama law enforcement has to be in order to achieve an 18% crime clearance rate?

Although there may be an initial psychological affect on the Aruban LE in the form of added pressure, they may just become more entrenched. I also am not sure how a boycott will have any affect in the short term. It is very much a long slog, and It also seems like more of shotgun affect rather than a precise form of pressure. I also doubt whether the Alabama can get enough of the other governors involved in this boycott. It would be interesting to see an analysis of the Americans that go to Aruba state by state. I suspect people from high population urban centers in Northeast, the West Coast and Miami (ie. Blue States) won't have enough sympathy for the Red State Holloway-Twitty's to support the boycott.

I wasn't surprised by the Aruban government passing the buck to the Dutch government, as this may be part of the institutional arrangement. Typically in a colonial system, the highest judicial authority and even Supreme Court or Court of Final Appeal is in the mother country (e.g. Privy Council). The Holloway/Twitty's should have hired some a high powered lawyer in the Hague close to the Dutch Government to lobby for them from day one.

That all said, I increasingly feel that there has been more than just incompetence in this case from the beginning.

-Multiple lies and obstruction by Joran and the Kalpoe brothers (K2J).
-The false arrest of the black security guards.
-The treatment of Dave Holloway by Dennis Jacobs
-The disappearance of evidence
-Paulus van der Sloot's close relationship to not only Van der Straaten but other people in Aruban LE amd Justice ..and they did not recuse themselves in the beginning
-The fact that the main van der Sloot house was never searched
-The fact that in the beginning K2J were not taken in for 10 days
-Dompig's refusal to call the FBI to bring in more diving equipment
-Dompig's refusal to question Koen Gottenbos. Has Gottenbos ever been questioned? This would be unconscionable since he is a friend of Joran and has a boat.
-Aruban's LE personal attacks on and vitriol againg Beth Twitty. Accusations of corruption, fraud, complicity in her daughter's disappearance, and whether she was a relative of Hilter?! There are not many jurisdictions in the Western world that would tolerate this from their detectives, deputy police chiefs, and prosecutors. It is simply an unethical and unprofessional.

This is all evidence of something more nefarious and more corrupt than incompetence.

Justice......you are a sick person..that language is uncalled for...no one has to boycott Aruba for me...I have enough sense not to go without being told. But in my heart, I know if it was my daughter, I would do anything to solve this case....and I mean anything!!!!!!

Dan, For clarification purposes, let me explain the difference in crime in Alabama ( or any other state) and crime in Aruba. In this state, crimes ARE properly investigated and the perpetrators apprehended and brought to justice. In Aruba, THEY ARE NOT !!!
Any other questions?

Oh great! Now you don't only suck in math, but also in spelling your own language! Discussing this topic is mindless Dan, because no matter what dirty laundry you bring out against the boycotters they will always get into the same banter ad nauseam about there being somehow a flawed investigation. Do you know how good Alabama law enforcement has to be in order to achieve an 18% crime clearance rate?

Posted by: divi divi | Nov 8, 2005 10:58:26 PM

AMEN
But let's all ignore that and point the finger at Aruba because they refused to do what Beth told them to do

I can't help but think this boycott idea is not somehow connected to help Gov. Riley's position in Alabama Politics. You can't have your major money donors from Mountain Brook mad at you and have much of a political future.

Posted by: meg | Nov 8, 2005 10:08:32
===============
I have wondered about this also. Alabama's legislature passed a boycott resolution first - cannot remember which representative took lead on this. There have to be big $$$ donors putting pressure on the legislature and the governor for them to come out with this kind of position. Follow the money - campaign donations, past and potential of future ones.

And really, how many people from Alabama go to Aruba anyway? Most of them come to Florida for the beaches as can drive there. Not meant as anything negative about that, its just that Alabama's travelers to Aruba would hardly make a dent in the tourist business there even if the people who lived there cared one way or the other that the governor is calling for a boycott. Most probably don't even know where Aruba is (true of most folks in US as it is a little place) and are probably scratching their heads wondering what this is all about.

Dan,

You forgot to ment that Alabama is Number 1 in boycotting foreign countries! That speaks for something, just not anything very smart.

I just returned from Aruba sunday night and let me tell you there were MANY americans there last week including Beth.At the beach, in town shopping,
at the casinos I saw plenty of Americans. including 2 cruise ships carrying over 5,ooo people. I went to Aruba before Natalee and I will continue to go to Aruba . there are plenty of Americans with time shares there and won't be giving them up for Beth,the govenor, or Greta.
Aruba is a country that can't be controlled by
one obsessed woman who is used to getting her own way and now frustrated that she can't do so there.
She wants to run the investigation herself,her way, not the Aruba way.She has decided who is guilty as a one woman jury even tho some days she wavers as to weather Nat is dead or alive.
NEVER once have I felt unsafe in Aruba but I don't frequent bars that serve booze by the YARD.
I did pass by the infamous bar at 1am on tuesday night and you could hear the music 2 blocks away and it seemed from outside to be plenty busy.So the kind of activity Natalee participated in hasn't scared any one off.
It is a beautiful Island, a friendly Island,and a safe Island if you use your head.I will never
boycott Aruba.

actually..alabama has had quite a number of boycotts which have led to successful conclusions..for those doing the boycotting..a product of alabama successfully and finally prosecuted and had convicted those responsible for the 16th st. church bombing...because not all forgot and not all would give up...

Posted by: knot | Nov 8, 2005 9:55:12 PM

What boycott are you referring to? What was boycotted?

Posted by: justice | Nov 8, 2005 10:44:40 PM

Points made by a proud Alabaman I assume? You do your state proud.

If you don't live in Alabama, I would better understand your post, though it would be more insensitive.

In this state, crimes ARE properly investigated and the perpetrators apprehended and brought to justice. In Aruba, THEY ARE NOT !!!
Any other questions?

Yeah, how come that only applies to white people?

well..I don't guess you keep up with the news much...but there were many...how about the montgomery bus boycott..this was started because of Rosa Parks..it was very successful..the bus system went broke...

Thanks Dan , you have common sense. The accused boys were proven to be liars but the case has so far produced no overt evidence of a crime, no clearly identifiable crime scene, no obvious victim of a crime, and definitely no body

Now you tell me which prosecutor can easily win a case like this!!!

We all know that the case was lately an open book investigation…The Dutch Federal Police (RST) was there with F16 warplanes…we also know that the FBI was there having access lately to all information …

Now you like to Boycott….
Hey Fools…Boycotting Aruba also means boycotting a lot of American Enterprises like Major Hotel Chains, Restaurants, Airlines…etc etc…..hahaha …!!!

Now you are blaming the Arubian Government also!!!

Hahaha…Now you tell me what the hell will the Arubian Authorities gain in HIDING any information….WHAT WILL THEY GAIN??? NOTHING, NOTHING, AND NOTHING YOU DAMNED FOOLS.

pkt... Well said well said


Posted by: Sue | Nov 8, 2005 11:13:20 PM

Yes but basically all unfounded. Or can you say untruthful or misguided??? Kind of how Beth relates her "facts".

Dan, For clarification purposes, let me explain the difference in crime in Alabama ( or any other state) and crime in Aruba. In this state, crimes ARE properly investigated and the perpetrators apprehended and brought to justice. In Aruba, THEY ARE NOT !!!
Any other questions?


Posted by: homewoodmom | Nov 8, 2005 11:14:12 PM
Apprehended and brought to justice? Do you have ANY idea of the number of unsolved cases in the US?? Try a google search.

Yes Dan, please post statistics on police investigators in Alabama asking grieving parents for money when they come looking for their daughter. And I'd love to see your stats for Alabama's police working on cases where their friends are suspects in murder.
----

This was Aruba's TOP cop working the case and maybe even the GODFATHER to the main suspect. I don't think we'll ever know the TRUTH about that. Let's get real, only a fool would believe PVDS's connections and position hasn't done major harm or that it would be tolerated here. And if an investigator here mentioned "money" they'd be suspended faster then the 'missing' posters could be put up.
----
Finally Dan, please post statistics on Alabama Law enforcement sending a father of a missing daughter to dig for days through a repulsive landfill, looking for remains of his daughter amongst the garbage - without any assistance whatsoever from the state.
----
I think it was more like weeks and then suddenly the hole was filled back in. Did the grieving father ever find out WHO ordered it and WHY? I don't think so because the Aruban govt. doesn't believe in "need to know" and why bother anyway when the only language they speak is doubletalk.

I know one thing for sure, something is ROTTEN in Aruba and no Alabama statistics is going to make it smell any better!

well..I don't guess you keep up with the news much...but there were many...how about the montgomery bus boycott..this was started because of Rosa Parks..it was very successful..the bus system went broke...

Posted by: knot | Nov 8, 2005 11:57:19 PM

You're confusing boycott with protest. Rosa Parks was protesting the injustice she received.

no I am not...she protested and it lead to the boycott of the montgomery bus system...without the boycott..nothing would have happened..read your history..the store owners in montgomery caved..they needed the business...but without the bus system to transport workers and customers they suffered...aruba..ought to give this some thought...alabama has experience with boycotts..

no I am not...she protested and it lead to the boycott of the montgomery bus system...without the boycott..nothing would have happened..read your history..the store owners in montgomery caved..they needed the business...but without the bus system to transport workers and customers they suffered...aruba..ought to give this some thought...alabama has experience with boycotts..

Posted by: knot | Nov 9, 2005 12:22:18 AM

hey - knot - not.

You are tangled.

Boycotting Aruba is no where near Rosa Parks situation.

Boycotting Aruba will have the reverse effect.

No one will care anymore. Especially the ones trying to help.

Don't you get it?

Or can you say untruthful or misguided??? Kind of how Beth relates her "facts".

Posted by: nursemind | Nov 8, 2005 11:59:28 PM

Kind of how that Shippa (?) chick relates her "facts"? So tell me, was she intentionally untruthful or just misguided when she claimed on Greta that Beth came to Aruba last week with "no" notice? I sat there in disbelief as she went on and on about something almost everyone on the planet knows is FALSE! I get her job is to cover for Aruba but she couldn't have blown it any worse then she did. I doubt anyone there cares though because HONESTY isn't what it's all about. It never has been.

Posted by: kin | Nov 9, 2005 12:38:48 AM

Not sure who you mean by the Shippa chick? Of course YOU knew Beth was going to Aruba because you probably listen to the gospel news on all the cable "new" channels. But do you really think Aruba tunes in to our TV to find out when Beth might arrive? Beth should have notified them through the proper channels.

The most amazing thing to me is how so many of you here think you know enough of what is going on to make a judgment call on what Beth Twitty, Dave Holloway and the rest of the family should or should not do. Regardless of those of you who think you have sources none of you (Dan included) are close enough to know the extent of the issues this family has faced. Nor are you in a position to suggest that the Governor of Alabama doesn't either. Sorry, but he simply is not going to put his political career on the line for Beth Twitty. They as a group are far more enlightened (and should be) to the issues that have transpired. They are in a far better position to make a decision on how they feel best to precede than anyone one on this or any other blog. Regardless of your personnel feelings.

While I don't know for sure but reasonable deduction would suggest that we are only being told a small portion of the issues that have gone wrong with this investigation. And the ones that we do know are numerous. I think anyone would have to ask who really has a reason to lie and cover things up in this case. It's not the Twitty's or the Holloway’s. Sorry to disappoint the anti Beth crowd but all this talk of her making money off the trust fund and insurance money is absolutely ridiculous. You sure as hell don't continue to scream and kick for the FBI to be involved if you’re trying to defraud an insurance company or miss appropriate money from a trust fund.

Rather this boycott has the desired effect or not it is obvious that the family has reached a point where they have run out of options. I find it very curious Dompig's timing of the smear campaign against Beth and it was a smear campaign. It began when he first started to catch wind of the possible boycott as well as attempting to cast doubt about the involvement of kids from MB. It was nothing more than a common tactic used by politicians right here in the US. One of Miss Direction of information. Focus the attention elsewhere to keep the heat off oneself.

On anther point, one comment I have read over and over many times was why Beth immediately thought Natalee was kidnapped. That really isn't very difficult to figure out. You are told your daughter was last seen getting into a car with three locals and never shows up at the hotel or airport. It's just not that big of a leap.

From what I read there is a big Anti Beth group here for what ever reason. But I find it interesting to read how you as a group think your here for the truth. Your not and that is obvious.

you are tryin to get as many hits on this site as you can...
knot

He got your hits cousin, so what are you trying to say/prove?

I think most of the crime statistics were meth related on meth related person's

SO IF THE DAMNED FOOLS YOU ARE BOYCOTTING BECAUSE YOU THINKS THERE IS A COVERT UP.…

Aruba is a small autonomous democratic society in the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
The Government is locally elected and has NO SAY AT ALL over the Judicial Branch. This Branch FALLS DIRECTLY UNDER THE KINGDOM OF THE NETHERLANDS.

The Justice minister Rudi Croes (Arubian) is responsible for the Police affairs. This minister is the brother of the late Betico Croes (George Washington of Aruba.).

There is no way ever that this minister will accept any bribe especially when the main accuser(s) are from Holland the country that has colonized Aruba for 400 years….

Pual de Sloot (not a judge yet) has a salary of approx $3500 a month….FOR HOW MUCH CAN HE BUY HIMSELF OUT DAMNED FOOLS….

YOU WILL MAKE MORE COMMON SENSE IF YOU BOYCOTT HOLLAND AND THE EUROPEAN UNION WHICH ARUBA IS PART OFF…DAMNED FOOLS….

Well Wayne,

According to Rudy he has no power at all. Which I don't believe for a minute. But to think that Holland wouldn't cover for Aruba is a joke. They would have every incentive to do so. Millions and Millions of them each and every year. It provides a lot of money for the kingdom. In effect, a boycott against Aruba Could very well have an economic impact on Holland.

As far as PVDS monthly salary while that may not seem like any great sum of money it has nothing to do with what other assets he holds or what power he could have being a connected as he has been.

Rudi Croes is a very nationalistic guy that I know personally will not sell his soul to the devil for any Dutchman...

At one time I would of agreed with you but no longer. He comes across as arrogant and pompous. I have lost all respect for him.

Sooo, don't hold back, Dan. I take it you are against boycotting Aruba?

I'lll join your boycotting the movement to boycott Aruba if you'll join my movement to boycott Dr. Phill.

Well, I believe he is a very arrogant person as he has received many death treats from the Colombian Mafia. He has successfully minimized the dangerous illegal Colombians crooks from entering Aruba.

I believe it’s completely unfair to boycott Aruba. The Arubians will definitely see Beth as their ENEMY NUMBER ONE or PERSONA NON GRATA after helping her with everything the could. THIS WILL NOT SOLVE THE CASE….

Nor are you in a position to suggest that the Governor of Alabama doesn't either. Sorry, but he simply is not going to put his political career on the line for Beth Twitty. They as a group are far more enlightened (and should be) to the issues that have transpired.

Oh, get real - his political career begins and ends in Alabama. If he doesn't appease the hometown money from MB - and black constituents who saw the early arrest of the black suspects as a cover up - he has no political future. If he was free to do what he wanted, he'd walk as far away from this boycott nonsense as he could.

All it says is that he has no national political aspirations, or feels that he can live this down by then. Take your head out of the sand long enough to see that no major non-cable network is even paying attention to it.

Did you notice that he called for "his fellow governors" to support it? Huh? Not the white house, not the State Department. Why is that? Use your freaking head.

If Beth deems it necessary then so be it.
It may harm her, who knows, but it "could help" who knows, but its her decision. Not mine.
I have nto lost anything in ARUBA anyway. I woudl not want "no body, no crime to happen to me if I went there.
People who travel to "any" foreign countries without first checkign out there "laws" not there crime rate, just in case soemthing "bad" happens to them.
JMHO. :o)

I'm going to boycot Alabama -- which won't be hard because I can't think of one good reason to step foot in that state. However, I do business with a few suppliers in Alabama, and I'm going to stop dealing with them and re-direct my business outside of Riley's realm until such time that Alabama's crime stats and governance reach tolerable levels.

If the rest of us stopped doing business with Alabama businesses, they might realize that dang...innocent folks are being penalized for decisions made by elected officials!

I'm boycotting Alabama on all levels.


This boycott is ridiculous..should we boycott Jamaica for Claudia, colorado for Jon Benet? etc etc...

this sets a dangerous precedent...maybe in the future countries will just say americans travel at your own risk

Aruba seems much safer than most islands..much safer than Jamaica and St Thomas for sure. The sad fact is that there is NO evidence

as for the "botched first days">> well really a missing adult in a non violent situation is probably NOT investigated much anywhere for the first 48 hours

The police had every right to ask her family "do you have money"..meaning, are you well off, rich would someone want to kidnap her for ransom.

Frankly I wish Dan would take off Dave's paypal link..I know Beth got a lot more money,but I dont see them spending it, the searchers are "volunteers" etc...I think they are just out for some vengence that Beth wants at this point

My feelings on this case were much more sympathetic before Hurricaine Katrina...that Beth would continue to accept money after all the missing kids, dead people, destroyed lives etc is sad...I live in south florida and we have a lot of newly homeless people here too...much better to give to the red cross than to the twittys or holloways

as for the boycott?? I would happily go to aruba and/or netherlands...but plan to stay out of alabama which isn't hard for me, have visted there and hated it

A boycott will do nothing to help find Natalee. It may cause some extra pressure being put on the LE by a small few in Aruba, but I do not see the majority of Americans who had plans or thoughts to travel to Aruba to cancel. In fact some, who are fed up with media coverage of this, may now decide to go to Aruba out of anger. JMO. Very disappointed that this boycott was requested. Still empathize with the family & don't feel qualified to judge any of their actions, but don't share their views on this move at all.
May Natalee be found soon.

I am not "Alabamee bound", because I really don't see no reason to be hangin' around. There! Too many twangs and Twittys.

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