Aruban Investigative Team Changes

Details can be found here. It seems the official line is that the team is being expanded. Best to read the full articles at link to get a sense of any potential change. Some team members may be moving on but I don't think anyone has been named, yet

Comments

[westcoaster]

"After meeting with the investigating team it turned out that two of the members of the team are not feeling well and can not continue with the team because of their health condition"......

This is sad. I truly empathize with the people of Aruba. May God give you the strength to withstand the scrutiny of the world and may He reveal the circumstances surrounding Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid the bee hive was poked one too many times....how many will get stung???

[truthbetold]

no matter who they get beth will still complain and make trouble for these people...if I were them I would stand form and say no more to her pressure and antics...let her throw alll the tv fits she wants to - she doesn't direct telling you how to run a investigation

[cindi in pa]

she doesn't direct telling you how to run a investigation

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 15, 2005 1:38:30 PM

she would never get away with this in the states. But God help Aruba if this is a cover up.

[mchenry]

Perhaps, the new LE being brought in will be interested in solving this case. I feel too many of the others have had a conflict in interest. Lets hope the new ones will process the evidence and not loose or dispose of it.

[Jody]

no matter who they get beth will still complain and make trouble for these people...if I were them I would stand form and say no more to her pressure and antics...let her throw alll the tv fits she wants to - she doesn't direct telling you how to run a investigation

AMEN. I would have told her off in the first week of her lies.

[knot]

Well that's a step in the right direction even if is just for show...however it's still not enough...the FBI needs to lead the investigation..the SPA needs to step back...as long as you have a union callin the shots very little if any investigative procedures will change

[kim]

ALE can't do it. Work fully with the FBI like Brazil.

[Hobo]

Cindi: sorry, but I don't agree with you about Beth not being able to get away in the US with what she's doing. The woman wants her daughter and will go to any length to succeed. Many may not agree with her style and tenacity, but a lot would have been left unsaid if she just sat back and wrote letters and made phone calls. I have read the statistics offered regarding the missing daily which is horrendous, but the attention is on Natalee, here, and a mother who probably won't give up until she (BT) is dead. Maybe you can recall the saying that ended with "if not us, who; if not now, when." I don't remember the whole thing, but concerning these tragic occurances, it gives me hope that the attention focused here may save someone, somewhere.
God bless you, Natalee.

[jacndaves]

This cannot hurt this case. I just hope they also have a direct link to report evidence that was destroyed and the person responsible is held accountable no matter what the evidence is and no matter if in US or Aruba.

Now is the time for truth and accountability.

[knot]

OK..you can send the dutch to take over who killed..OJ's wife Nicole Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman...we have yet to find the killers and need the dutch help...when you finish this one we will give you another one to solve...thanks

[Colorado]

According to Greta's blog,
Topics and Guests: November 15 :

Natalee Holloway's mother has two demands — if they are met, she says she will call off the boycott of Aruba! What are they?

Unbelievable.

[Jennifer]

no matter who they get beth will still complain and make trouble for these people...if I were them I would stand form and say no more to her pressure and antics...let her throw alll the tv fits she wants to - she doesn't direct telling you how to run a investigation

Not to mention that Beth T, has, I am sure, signerd a hiuge book & movie deal lal about her daughter, talk about commercializing her lost daughter. I though she yelled she wouldnot leave the Island without her? I am mad as hell, about the Greta's Nancy's that are blow horning Beth T scame for the sake of ratings, get real, try & find someone who really needs help & cannot get funding from millionais. Beth T examples the rich southern red necks, wiht no concern of the poor AL people who are truly missing & their State & governor cares nault for.

[knot]

thanks for your help with OJ..ok..now you can go get MJ...but first you have to bring in OJ..since your system found him guilty...thanks

shuda wuda cuda...dutch system..LOL

[INDIANAREDNECK]

Do not forget what Dave Holloway said on FOX NEWS friday night. That the beach partol police gave the bone the tourist found to the police comissioner because they did not trust the detectives on the case.

[Shonane]

[quote]...the FBI needs to lead the investigation...[/quote]

I am sure The Netherlands will allow the FBI to take over, the moment you will let our Dutch Police take over any investigation we want inside the USA !!

Posted by: DUTCH

I do not agree that the FBI should lead the investigation. This is their country and their investigation and they cannot let another country come in and take over their investigation. If they need help,they can pull in the Netherlands.I am confident that the Dutch are quite capable of handling this. The FBI was involved from the very beginning and can assist as requested. Last week I read some of the early news articles and the FBI supposedly send an additional 10 investigators over there by week three into the investigation (if we can believe news articles.) They may indeed have some sneaks in their police force and who would be surprised. The US also has to deal with this same situation, especially in large cities. Sometimes, no matter how hard investigators try to solve a case, they just are not able to, or it may take years and sometimes new information emerges.

[hockeygirl]

If you think the Dutch are "capable", read this response from the Dutch Minisrty of Justice to my letter via email to the Ministry:

Thank you for your letter, in which you ask my attention for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As I understand from your letter,
this incident has shocked you, and many others with you. I have received many letters in which people express their concern about the criminal investigation in this case.

First of all, I deeply regret the disappearance of Miss Holloway and I sympathize with her family. I sincerely hope this case will be solved
very soon. In reply to your letter I must inform you that I cannot be of direct service to you. Although Aruba is part of The Kingdom of the
Netherlands, I have, according to the Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Statuut van het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden) no jurisdiction in individual criminal cases on Aruban territory. The Aruban Minister of Justice [Randy Croes]is responsible for the criminal investigation and prosecution of criminal offences in Aruba. I am therefore unable to express an opinion regarding this case. Consequently, I have handed over your letter to the Aruban Minister of Justice.

Yours sincerely
For the Minister of Justice
Chief of the Legal and Policy-Support Department
R.R. Joesoef Djamil

Hmmm, well this just seems to get us back to where we started-good 'ol Croes. I sent Mr. Djamil another email asking how Aruban judges and the Minister are overseen, disciplined and removed sinve they are appointed by the Queen. So far , no response....In Mr. Djamil's world, it's like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. But who's in charge of the fox?!..........

It appears that foxes oversee a very strange system of justice in Aruba; one where normal theories and rules of evidence do not apply.
Normally, "EVIDENCE" consists of testimony, facts, documents and physical evidence. For example: 3 boys seen driving vic away from bar= fact (evidence); vic seen stumbling drunk when left bar and got in car = fact & (witness) testimony (evidence); 3 boys drive vic to beach and one boy kisses vic on beach = (admission) testimony (evidence); 3 boys are last to have seen, and been with, vic while alive=fact (evidence); admission and/or confession of suspect that 3 boys all had sex with vic that same night=(admission) testimony (evidence); vic never heard from or seen again after having left bar with boys = fact (evidence).
Of course, if a body were recovered, we would probably also have physical evidence such as semen (3 types? ), DNA (ditto), abrasions and bruises, possible cracking of the skull with a blunt object and/or subhematoma, possible stab wounds etc.

All these types of evidence,THAT ARE ALREADY ESTABLISHED, are valid and admissible in a criminal trial for kidnapping, battery, rape,and possibly murder. (You might want to research the case of the mother and son currently in prison for murdering their wealthy landlord--the point? There was never any body found.) Further, testimony by third party witnesses as to vic's (Natalee's) physical and mental state of mind (i.e. too drunk to walk properly, let alone be able to knowlingly give valid consent) is also "evidence" and admissible.

Let's have a recap:
(1) Forcibly taking physical control of vic w/o vic's consent or moving or transporting vic without vic's consent = kidnapping. Also, refusing to allow vic to leave after initial consent-but change of mind-kidnapping. (Note that kidnapping does not require transport of the vic; meremy holding vic in a locked room with no escape=kidnapping.)
(2) Forcibly detaining, or restraining, vic (w/o consent) so that vic is not free to leave = kidnapping
(3) Consent must be SPOKEN OR WRITTEN and must be freely, knowingly and voluntarily given by the vic, w/o the use of drugs, alcohol, force, coercion, intimidation ("Who would believe you against us? "My dad is a judge...")threats, or abuse (or threats of abuse to vic or vic's family or threats to sully girl's reputation as a "Goody Two Shoes").
(4) Consent only applies to acts/matters that have been consented to within bounds of agreed time frame; i.e."I will have sex with you" does not mean "I will have sex with your friends too" or "I will have sex with you for as long as you want, as many times as you want, any way you want...etc."
(5) Any change in environment, location, specifics, persons involved, number of persons involved, acts or matters outside of or in addition to subject matter of the "first consent", or FRAUD (i.e. "It will just be us baby-and I won't go all the way" etc.), void the prior consent in its entirety, and may, in addition, = additional crimes if acted upon.
(6) Consent, once given, and even after given, may be revoked at option of the vic, at any time and at any place without reason or explanation (i.e. vic can "change her mind") and any such revocation voids the prior "consent" as of that moment.
(7) Once a person intentionally puts another person in a knowingly dangerous situation or leaves a vic in a knowingly unsafe location, that person will be liable for any harm that vic suffers as a result of that abandonment (i.e. vic left naked on cold beach after being raped and subsequently dies from exposure = rape AND murder).

In applying this law to the Boys' action/inaction, let's see what we can come up with:
(1) According to numerous witnesses and the boys, Nat was stumbling drunk as she left Carlos & Charlie's
(2) Joran admits to taking Nat to beach and to "kissing" her
(3) Deepak claims they all had sex with her
(4) Joran claims he left her at beach
(5) Natalee never seen/heard from again.

Some initial points:
(1) If Nat was stumbling drunk in beginning outside bar, Q as to whether she gave legal consent, or could have-as to getting in car, as to driving to beach and not hotel, as to driving to beach and not Joran's house (or vice-versa)
(2) Even if Nat "sober enough" to consent to get in car and/or drive to beach, did she also consent to "making out" with Joran? With other 2 watching and/or there? Did she agree to kissing but nothing more? Did Joran tell her he wanted nothing more? And, even more troubling, did Joran tell Natalee that only he would "make out" with her?

Even though we only have THEIR side(s) of the story, part of that story involves Deepak's admission that alll 3 had sex with Natalee, which raises some very troubling questions:

(1) If we believe the suspects' position that Nat was lucid and could and did give legal consent to get in car and/or go to beach, don't we also have to believe that Nat could and did give legal consent to having sex with all three of the boys?? (In order to find Deepak credible.) and
(2) If we believe the boys' story that Nat was lucid at the beach, we must also believe that absent more liquor or drugs administered at the beach, Natalee made a knowing and consensual decision to have sex with three different boys. It seems to me that this is really where the boys' lies break down. Nat supposedly had expressesd some level of interest in Joran on previous occasions; there is NO EVIDENCE of her ever having expressed such interest in the two Kalpoe brothers or any type of interest in boys like the Kalpoes. And the reason is obvious-they weren't her type! Joran was tall, white, clean cut, athletic, smart, cosmopolitan; the Kalpoe Bros. were dark, small and somewhat "gangsta" looking.
Even if Nat was sober enough to willingly consent to getting in that car, even if she was sober enough to willingly consent to being driven to the beach, even if she was sober enough to have willingly consented to "making out" with Joran on the beach-and possibly even to "going all the way" WITH JORAN- there is NO WAY that she would have then willingly consented to being slobbered over, groped, pulled at and f----d by two boys that she had no interest in, probably looked down on and never would have even had as friends; they were not at her level physically, economically or academically. The ONLY way "all of ...[the boys would have] had sex with Natalee" would have been if Joran and one of the brothers held her down while the other raped her OR if she had been unconscious due to a date rape drug or severe intoxication rendering her powerless to defend herself. The Kalpoe brothers are scrawny, sweaty, swarthy, sleezy, low-lifes that Natalee wouldn't have looked twice at or given the time of day to. To suggest that she would have willingly consented while sober and lucid to making love with either of them is outrageous, absurd and defies common sense.

Can anyone still logically believe that the boys "did nothing?" That Paulus did nothing? Hmmm, ever hear of obstruction of justice? Destruction of evidence? Do you know what happens to American lawyers that counsel their clients to hide or destroy evidence, hide or "get rid of" witnesses, lie on the stand or even let them testify knowing they will lie? They are disbarred. Let's hope that the Beth Bashers and JoranDP Fan Club out there are as sympathetic to all the many "boys" out there when they see their mother, sister, daughter, cousin or girlfriend/wife, half-naked, bloody and lifeless at the morgue after getting a ride home from 3 men that "did nothing wrong."