Worried About Welfare?

It doesn't matter how you approach them, certain topics are going to get you into trouble, regardless of how you proceed. The solution for many of our politicians seems to be to just not talk about them - and God forbid a slip of the tongue type comment like Bill Bennett's recent misadventure bringing race into the discussion on crime.

Let me take a slightly different approach to a difficult topic, which will still bring plenty of criticism if it gets out: the topic is welfare.

There are two intertwined social welfare programs today - the Kennedy-esque, and the poor man's kind. And that goes for white poor, as well as black poor, by the way - though an essay I will link deals more with inner-city issues, and consequently has a more racially-based context.

Some all too rich for all too long folks seem to have a habit of de-generating into the worst kind of political liberalism. Detached from reality in the common sense of getting up everyday and going to work to earn a living, many of that upper-welfare class live in their dreams of incredible socio-economic theories which never work in practice, yet they strive to compete and even dominate the national discussion on issues of great import.

And they actively politic for and defend a lower-tier of welfare class, another group which finds little or no incentive to wake up every morning and effort to play a genuinely productive role in society to earn their way. Their way, though not lofty, is in a sense just as pre-paved as that of the idle rich.

How ironic that two such separated populations would form a sort of symbiotic relationship, parasitic through and through. The upper-echelon uses the lower to secure votes which yield power and the lower-echelon looks to them for a meager sense of security in a capitalist system, leaving them no real power at all.

God I would just live to stick a Kennedy or two in a tenement for a month. It might actually yield the greatest political progress of any other proposed initiative of our time.

See Dan Morgan for a more substantial discussion of the issue. I'm tired and just free-thinking it, to be honest. That always leaves me prone to error.

Comments

[katy]

Society's message was driven home to me this week. My family is solidly upper middle class, yet my 18yr old just moved in with her boyfriend, reveling in the assumption that she will be eligible for food stamps and won't have to work as hard as she does my home.

[Cindi in PA]

God I would just live to stick a Kennedy or two in a tenement for a month. It might actually yield the greatest political progress of any other proposed initiative of our time.
Posted by Dan in News | Permalink | Comments (1)

First those covered by insurance and paid for life, after a few eight years served, should have to live the life most Americans live. That is when change will take place.

Katy, You brought you daughter up. Somewhere deep down the values you taught her are there. She will come around, and one day you will hear her bitching about the same things we do now. Hang in there.

[TheAlamo]

America should phase out subsistence-welfare and instead focus on the many other things that can help blacks. For example, schools have room to improve dramatically and universal health care coverage is possible without benefit reductions based on a means-tests. A goal should be to break the cycle of thinking that demands that means-tests be used for providing aid. This is at the core of the problems for black Americans today.

It was a good article up until this last paragraph where there is a total contradiction.
"Universal health care?" Just how is that going to come about without more socialistic stealing from those who work, and giving to those who do not? That IS welfare, just as paying them money.

To eliminate welfare, you must eliminate the minimum wage, which is the major cause of people being poor. It forces people into welfare, and keeps them there.
if we eliminate the minimum wage, people will make more money, not less. 19 year olds will actually be able to work instead of roaming the projects.
Furthermore, all federal "regulations" against production need to be re-located to the state or local level where either they will be enforced, or eliminated.
Leave people alone to produce, and let them have the fruits of their labor--and they will produce.
Keep taking from one group and giving to another, and you will have the growing group (non working) eliminating the shrinking group (those working) until there are only two classes left. Rich and poor.

Once that happens, you can kiss what little is left of the American ideal---and...the American way of life...good-bye.

[working poor]

Gee, I've been saying that for years. I want to see old George live for even a few months like I have to. I don't believe anyone who hasn't had to live poor should be making the policies either.

Katy, if it's like out here, she's in for a rude shock. You have to prove you are working or looking for work, and the most you can make is $600 a month. They have all sorts of programs you have to attend. It's almost as time consuming as working a job. I don't know anyone on welfare out here who can actually live on it, unless they are commiting fraud. And those of us having to live on food stamps are more than willing to turn those creeps in. As one in the "poor" pile, I have to say we are already only have two classes. Middle class would seem rich to me. Being able to take for granted a roof over my head and food on the table would be middle class. No health care of any kind. And for many of us, no way to get out. I don't know anyone on welfare except druggies who can stay in bed. (See "fraud") Maybe there once was a class like that, but now we are "the working poor". Somehow I don't think your daughter is going to like being one of the poor, unless her boyfriend can support her. And then she won't be eligible for food stamps. Like Cindi, I think her ethics will kick in.

I'm a middle aged white female by the way. And you don't have to live in a tenement to starve to death, although you wouldn't know that by the politicians and the media.

Send me that Kennedy. He can live in the drug house next door, they have it better than we do.

[newswatcher]

I live in one of the most economically depressed areas of the US. Education is not going to help when there are no jobs to go to.

[Angie]

I have different (but uneduacted) views on this. I am on welfare. I got pregnant a year and a half ago, and had a daughter which i could not support (her father is in prision). I am now using welfare to dig myself out of this hole. I live in section 8 housing and go to college full time. I strongly believe IF people used welfare to HELP them rather than SUSTAIN them, it would work. What would be the sense in me going to work, making little above minimum wage when i could go to school and provide my daughter with the life she deserves in the future? Where i live people are not allowed to just "sit" on welfare. The have a "promise jobs" worker who requires full time work or full time school in order to get a check. You have to constantly be working to better your situation or you get nothing.

PS - i do not spend my "welfare" check on cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, ect. I have been clean and sober since the day i found out i was pregnant.

[TheAlamo]

PS - i do not spend my "welfare" check on cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, ect. I have been clean and sober since the day i found out i was pregnant.

Posted by: Angie | Oct 17, 2005 2:53:27 PM

Hi Angie..I would like to ask you some things, but please do not take this as an "attack" on you, but some general questions you need to think about.

Why should I, or anyone else have to pay because you decided to enjoy sex? The money that I have to pay in taxes so that we can support you and your child takes away from that which I am able to do for my own children.
How is that just?

The fact is, that you made a mistake, and granted, we all might have been in the same boat, but is it the responsibility of others to pay for the irresponsibility of some?
Yes it is. But, not by force of government taking from one group and giving to another, rather by the voluntary sharing of the abundance we have been blessed with. If no force were involved, as in pre-1960's you would have had an outpouring of aid from groups and individuals. They are not as able to do so now since their hard earned money is extracted by the government by force, and given to others. (I'll bet you didn't know that either--before the early 1960's there was no welfare, and guess what...nobody starved, and in fact, there were many, many, less "poor." With the advent of welfare also came the minimum wage and other government restrictions that keep people from earning a decent living.)

In the past...before welfare, people looked either to their families, friends, charities, and/or churches. What is wrong with using these facilities today? Americans are the most giving people on the planet, and if the government were not in the way, it is my guess that you would not only be able to take care of your child, and go to school, but that you would receive more help than you are getting now.

As for you working for minimum wage, I can understand that. Minimum wage is set up for force people into welfare and KEEP them there. Any chance you get to have input into eliminating the minumum wage will have the effect on increasing real earning capacity of all workers. However, once you get a couple of years of college under your belt, then you should have enough "credentials" to get a higher than average part-time job.

Again, this is not a personal attack upon you, and I think you at least have a plan for a future, but think about these things in general, because unless the welfare system is eliminated, it will continue to grow...and those who pay into it will continue to shrink.

I wish you and your child a bright future.

[Eric]

The real issue in New Orleans was the welfare state that lead to the dependance on the poor to any municipal, state, or Federal power. Of course this wasn't addressed by the "million" man march. Their "accomplishments stated" from their muliple "leaders" was a plan to file a class action lawsuit against FEMA (at least that's what an Farakan representative touted on Fox News)? Not sure how this will help (other than playing the blame game, FEMA, conspiracy theories of exploding the levees, etc) w/o addressing the real issue. EDUCATION. Education solves the manufacturing base problem (learn something that doesn't involve your hands), solves the welfare problem, solves many gang/crime problems, etc.

I agree to welfare as a safety net, but education is one of the only ways out of the "welfare state"

Where is the real leadership for the down trotten? It's surely not the DNC, Jackson, Farakan, Sharpton, Hillary...

[TheAlamo]

EDUCATION. Education solves the manufacturing base problem (learn something that doesn't involve your hands), solves the welfare problem, solves many gang/crime problems, etc.

I agree to welfare as a safety net, but education is one of the only ways out of the "welfare state"

Where is the real leadership for the down trotten? It's surely not the DNC, Jackson, Farakan, Sharpton, Hillary...

Posted by: Eric | Oct 18, 2005 12:13:12 AM

The problem is incentive. They have no incentive to get off welfare, so you and I get to deny our own family because they will not change.

Everybody on the planet has an economic satisfaction level. For most, on the planet, it is proverty....because it is "good enough" for them. If it weren't, they would change their situation. In places where they are held down by governments, then they would overthrow the government, just as we did here when enough people had had enough. If N. Korea, for example were not subsidized by the Chinese...who are subsidized by us...then both of those systems would collapse because starving people will fight for change.

Welfare is a total failure, and there is no hoping it will change people for the better, since we have had almost 50 years of proof that it is a negative--even for...and especially for..those who are on it. Socialism has never worked. It will never work, and it amazes me that mankind is too stupid to see that this is so. But...it DOES give politicians bought and paid for votes...and the money did not come from their own pocket.
Welfare has grown into an occupation, and one that you and I get to pay for.

If anything, it should be turned over to the local governments, and should have a maximum cap of 5 weeks, unless the person is disabled...really disabled.

[Angie]

While I understand people's feelings of not wanting to be "forced" into paying for other peoples mistakes, I think some are just luckier than others that their mistakes when they were younger (or more currently) didn't affect them as greatly as others. Not something I really care to know, but to think about - Did you EVER have unprotected sex in high school? maybe at college? Were you just a lucky one who didn't get pregnant (or didn't have a girlfriend who got pregnant)? I have seen a better life that I want for my child and that is why I am striving for it. I see people who are okay with staying at the poverty line all the time and I think that is CRAZY, but they may not know it is possible. May not have seen any success stories. Where I live you do have a time limit (no, it is not 5 weeks) to be on welfare. 5 years (not consecutive) in your lifetime you can recieve help (not including medical and food stamps) which i think is good, gives some people a LITTLE more of a sense of urgancy about doing something to change the situation they are in. Thank you for wishing my daughter and I a bright future. I am extremely proud of how I raise my daughter and what I am doing with my life. I will graduate in 2 1/2 years with my RN.

[callmeBetty]

Will someone please give TheAlamo $.001 to repay him for Angie's education?

Most of us will pay more for gas next month than our total individual tax contributions for social services......... Or will the surplus cash that you get to keep if we cut Welfare benefits enable you to get that Hummer you've been drooling over. Does you family really 'need' a new RV the size of NJ? And since when do churches take in unwed mothers.........

Angie, you have every reason to be proud of your efforts to better yourself and provide for your daughter. It's not easy to do what you are doing. Nursing is a noble profession, there is a big demand for specialists. You should be up and able to write your own ticket in a few short years. Hang in there.

[Angie]

Thank you, I appreciate it Betty.

[TheAlamo]

First of all, the welfare budget is one of the largest on the government, and it does go far beyond the figure quoted by Betty....but that wasn't the point, and neither of you answered the point. It is not about money at all, but that is a convenient thing to hide behind.

The questions was how is it just, for me to be responsible for Angie and her child?
Who is responsible for my mistakes? Who is willing to pay for them?

Angie, we all make mistakes, and my guess is that most of us can throw out as many, or more "hard times," as the reason why, or the excuse for each and every one of them. That is not the issue.

Your attitude somehow conveys an idea that you are "owed" help from society because society is bigger and better fed than you. Unfortunately, this is an attitude that seems to permeate the youth of today. My points were to try to get you to take a look at the other side of the coin, but, it seems you are not there yet...but the wonderful thing about life is...you will be. The shoe will go onto the other foot, and perhaps then, you will understand the points, so very well glossed over at this time.

The issue is personal responsibility. I repeat that I was not harassing you, but wanting you to think about this, because yours are not the only mistakes paid for by taxpayers.

[callmeBetty]

Hi Alamo......... It would appear that You missed the point. I was trying to make a joke.

Being condescending and judgemental re Angie's "mistake" ie her CHILD is a bit nasty, don't you think? Unintentional, cause I kinda know where you're coming from, but you don't get the Mister Sensitive of the Year award. OK. You paid $.10 for Angie's degree. You and me and everyone else paid a dime; it adds up.

Maybe her child was planned and the dead beat dad left her alone after beating her to within an inch of her life, stealing the El Camino and emptying the bank account on the way to Vegas........ She owes you no explanation or gratitude. She IS doing the right thing and she IS the target recipient of these services - one who is using them honestly. We don't have extended family units or small town ethics anymore.... or even hearts it would appear.

My point is this. If the money wasn't spent on Welfare, the government would just build another bomb or fund some other dumb a** do-nothing program. They won't give you the money back...come on dude. At least Welfare DOES something, like help Angie have hope. Someday you might meet her at the ER and be happy with your investment. Until then, pick on someone with a little less dignity. Like shrubbery, lol.