There Goes The Neighborhood

lol Just kidding. But I thought the servers and such had been donated?

We have invested a great deal as you all know in getting and keeping this site going and making it a hospitable place ...

There are so many good, diligent, respectful Monkeys on this forum ...

Even long time monkeys have decided for some reason to actually believe some of the hateful and ridiculous things that have been said ...

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be piling on here, but that monkey stuff is just plain freakin' weird. Worse than men in got-damned sandals ... but not with socks, of course.

Hopefully T & R will get some kind of moderating system going and get the forum back up. Frankly, they are a biatch to run and I just have to worry about one thread. Oh well.

Comments

[Cindi in PA]

I don't mean to be piling on here, but that monkey stuff is just plain freakin' weird. Worse than men in got-damned sandals ... but not with socks, of course.
Posted by Dan in Web Blogs | Permalink

someone is in rare form ;)

[roy]

There goes the neighbourhood!!

How true!

[cashmere]

Did Beth stop paying the bill? Can't see why she would. She was worshipped there. If Beth said it, than it was so according to the monkeys.

[Key West]

Be on the look out for ~~Flying Monkeys~~~
Women hide your Babys ;^)

[Not a Hand Wringer]

I posted this elsewhere...but I'll re-set it again.

Here is my prediction. Watch for the monkey forum to re-birth as a subscription forum, all under the guise of needing money for bandwidth...admin costs, etc.

It's my observation that the site there is beginning to show commerical potential, and a paid for subscription forum accomplishes 3 things.

1) paid subscription forum keeps out the pure trolls usually, who will have no desire to pay to post.
2) it provides some cash flow, and a stable and eager target audience to sell your monkey-wares to.
3) it will attract like minded folks who will pay to be around other like minded folks.

Of course...once a forum becomes totally like minded....it loses all it's character, and often it's vibrancy. The fact is, there will always be pissing contests on forums, and you just have to know how to manage it.

The easiest way really being to just moderate with a light touch, and don't try to hard to control all aspects of what's posted there.

Just a humble two cents of course, from someone who has never managed a forum, but managed to post at many over the years...observing along the way.

[TK]

Some monkeys have open minds to the fact that Beth may have been wrong in some of her statements. Some also believe in innocent until proven guilty. Sorry that the forum closed over there, but it was getting way over the top with all the argueing and personal attacks. Lots of people were losing their ability to be rational. lol I am sure T & R will have things back up soon. At least I hope so! They did have lots of good information going through that forum & the blog. :)

[Paul]

the monkey down fall comes from their commie-mod thorazine. he deleted so many of my posts. I dont think beth is doing natalee a disservice by asking people not to go to aruba. why would arubans want to help now? this freak thorazine edited all my posts on this and even banned me for a few days.. no one allowed to have an opinion other than the monkey-view?

[igsigs]

Monkeys will survive. All discussion, from all viewpoints, are valuable. Lack of obvious movement towards resolution in case promotes friction and confusion - on all related boards. Monkeys are not exempt. More importantly - resolution for all families directly affected by Natalee's absence is primary. Hopefully there will be progress in the coming weeks...

[Not a Hand Wringer]

Thorazine was hard on my posts as well, and deleted many unfairly I believe.

[justsayin]

NotaHandWringer:

If it's subscription, then it will be purchased by a media group who specializes in running a forum, one who will own and manage it independent of the SM bloggers. Bandwidth is cheap, and unfortunately SM was too cheap to get a dedicated hosting arrangement with a reputable company which would have given them plenty of bandwidth and space if they'd dedicated the time to the forum and management of it in the first place. They didn't, I assure you, and most people won't spend a dime on a subscription to any forum - there are too many our there in Internetland. Please show me one that isn't trade oriented where that happens and I'll gladly eat my shoe.

Cashmere: Beth didn't pay the bill, donations did. No more donations and T&R are footing the bill - a bill that even with donations they forgot to pay occassionally. Yeah, that's some dedication, huh?

[TK]

The Mods over there were sometimes out of line I will agree. The problem I think is that they just got anyone who was willing to be a Mod. They were at one point on the forum asking for volunteers. I don't know if that is the way it usually works on forums or not?? I would think you would want people you know can be rational and partial to all views. Total strangers dont seem like the people you would have in control over what is posted on your forum. Dan do you have Mods here, and if so do you just pick strangers who volunteer for the job? Just a question.

Also.... if they turn it into a subscription forum then I will not go back. Not because of the money, but because of the fact that they wouldnt be the type of people they claimed to be on that forum. If they start charging... it will make me think they only want the money! I hope that is not the case with SM... and right now I dont think it will be. Thanks!

[justsayin]

TK: Also.... if they turn it into a subscription forum then I will not go back.

My point, exactly.

[Dan]

"Dan do you have Mods here, and if so do you just pick strangers"

Just one total stranger - Me! ; )

[iquitos]

i had never participated in a discussion group before and found scared monkeys natalee holloway discussions initially very stimulating. lots of well informed folks thinking out of the box trying to figure out what happened to natalee. they were on the board for hours to the exclusion of most other activities. full time monkeys. i get the impression that too many were eventually shunned and banned and other just lost interest as the boards evolved. the moderation went from light to heavy handed. initially it was more technical, no name calling, quote stacks, swearing, then it got into your more subjective stuff. i was admonished for trying to "dominate the discussion" because i got fired up and posted a lot one day when we were discussing extradition and somebody posted the treaty and then gave an interpretation that was not possible from the document he posted which i guess he figured nobody would actually read. monkeys did a lot of good research and actually worked together during one period early on gathering bios, crafting timelines, and so on. then the groupthink set in and the adherence to the factual case went out the window in favor of cheerleading and character assassination, extreme measures, etc. i suspect some members then started whining to the moderators when they did not like what others posted that was not in keeping with their theme until they got them booted. interesting group dynamic. probably needed a resident social worker. i have been in touch with one of the original monkey participants ond one of their most prolific, objective and informed who was banned two days ago. i understand things were getting out of hand.

[Not a Hand Wringer]

Well, before my prediction turns into a rumour, which then turns to fact...

I'm only guessing. Call it a hunch, I suppose...but I have nothing to prove that this is going to happen at Scared Monkeys.

Here is an example of a forum where such a thing has happened. It is the Acoustic Guitar Forum. www.acousticguitarforum.com A non-manufacturer supported Acoustic Guitar forum that NOW charges members to post in some sections.

They call that a 'Charter Membership' where you pay to get full access to all aspects of the forum, including the off guitar topic parts of the forum discussing religion and politics for example.

A free membership only gets you partial access to some of the forum sections.

In the past, there was no charge to post at any of the various topic sections. Along the way...Charter memberships were introduced...in no small part to control the flaming etc.

[disenchanted monkey]

I think one of the main problems was when the wife started posting prolificly, and was brown-nosed by a select few, who could then do no wrong. It became a click, talking about weddings, recipes, movies, monkey rankings that were earned by posting totally unrelated garbage, and fellow posters that weren't there to defend themselves. At that point anyone with an opposing point of view became a TROLL. (many who were there from day one) It was the same thing day after day, and was disapointing to those posters that really wanted to talk about all angles of this case.
Most of the good, intelligent posters left or became lurkers for the latest news. You saw the same 25-30 posters all day every day. I thought the point was to find out what happened, but if you brought up anything that painted Natalee or the MB kids other than as PURE INNOCENTS you found yourself flamed and blamed. Scrolling through the endless drivel became tiresome.

[igsigs]

inquitos - spoken like a monkey veteran. Some of what you say i agree with...some not. Who was "prolific" and "booted"?

[maritzka]

Iquitos, you were very good to the Monkeys', did endless Dutch To English
translations, and were flamed and eyerolled toward the end of your journey
there. Many of the newer Monkeys did not know of your many contributions to the forum and showed you no respect. I for one missed you and your matter of fact attitude. I was sorry to see you go.
Mari

[TK]

Iquitos & Disenchanted Monkey

You both make excellent points and observations that are almost exactly what happened to that board. I wouldnt go blaming Mrs. Red though. There were lots of brown nosers on that board before and after she showed up. lol The points I liked most were these....

1.then the groupthink set in and the adherence to the factual case went out the window in favor of cheerleading and character assassination, extreme measures, etc.
2.At that point anyone with an opposing point of view became a TROLL. (many who were there from day one) It was the same thing day after day, and was disapointing to those posters that really wanted to talk about all angles of this case.
3.Most of the good, intelligent posters left or became lurkers for the latest news.

End of forum because of those three things! It was really a shame and rediculous. Felt like being in high school all over again. lol

[gad]

iquitos, igsigs, and maritzka, names I recognize. I was there today when SM shut down, didn't realize it had gotten so bad. I agree with the cheerleading comments one of you made, I was getting tired of the gossipy bantering also, but they do have some articulate, smart people there. I just read fast by the gabbing.

[Bitsey]

Scared monkeys wanted "like-minded" nitwits and imploded when that's all their moronic banter and heavy-handed moderating gave them. Maybe now they'll be forced to get real jobs instead of sucking on donations.

[trystsong]

Why feel the need to bash another blog here, and a mighty fine one at that. Most SM mods are great.

You people are too delighted *cough*Dan*cough* to think that the SM forum has imploded. Who knows what changes will come? But it smells like sour grapes in here. You don't have to like SM, why waste your time with the taunting? Grow up.

BTW, SM was open to all respectfully stated, differing opinions. Not baiting, inflammatory, or bashing. It wasn't the bloggers' fault that a handful of bad apples kept coming in trying to bait people and stir things up.

And BTW, shut up about mentioning the wife and a certain moderator by name. Juveniles. Talk about the blog, fine, have your opinion....but leave them alone.

[Guest]

Ah but trystsong they are right on the money when they say that certain Admins name, so why not bring it out?

[alwayswatching]

Ah but trystsong they are right on the money when they say that certain Admins name, so why not bring it out?

Posted by: Guest | Oct 14, 2005 1:57:20 AM

RIGHT on the $$ Guest! The forum was overthrown by trolls, one was an administrator.You all called the name. Many will attest to that. ASK them. They will tell. Sad day for so many who only wanted the home they used to have.

[lawbster]

iquitos, disenchanted and other monkeys (past and in limbo)
couldn't agree with you more.
trystsong, many of the more serious posters, who were actually interested in the case, have expressed the same sentiments off the board -- and none of those posters were banned - so your claim of sour grapes falls flat. SM was not open at all, if you stated a differing opinion, the pack "dealt" with you. as for the mods, well you know the old saying, "when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". i'm sorry to see the meltdown, because there was a good group in the beginning.

[LaLa]

I was not banned from the forum but could not sign in any more after some of my fellow thread posters were banned. I emailed Red and Tom three times for an explanation but never received an answer. Many of my friends were banned because there was a rebellion against the tight moderating done by one particular moderator that let all the power go to her head. It had been going downhill there for a while....since the end of July. It just took it this long tocome to light for otherns and then finally blow.
If you ask me the best mods they had there were Absolut and rb....missed those two since the day they left.
Just my two cents.

[LaLa]

I was not banned from the forum but could not sign in any more after some of my fellow thread posters were banned. I emailed Red and Tom three times for an explanation but never received an answer. Many of my friends were banned because there was a rebellion against the tight moderating done by one particular moderator that let all the power go to her head. It had been going downhill there for a while....since the end of July. It just took it this long to finally blow.
If you ask me the best mods they had there were Absolut and rb....missed those two since the day they left.
Just my two cents.

[LaLa]

sorry for the typos and the double post...I was just fired up and then my computer had a hiccup...LOL
Have a wonderful Friday!!

[Nancy]

Personally, I GLAD to see it gone. It was getting so bad, that if you didn't go along with the "click" -- they rode you hard. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and heaven help you if it differed from the "bunch".. A couple of the mods were out of control. One in particular would delete posts, AND, even add nasty comments to a persons posts after they were off there for the night.I know this for a FACT -- coz SHE did it to mine and others. If she had it in for a group -- she'd make sure to get rid of them one by one. NO help from the admins either who just LET it happen. TOTAL chaos. Now, lets see how I get flamed here for speaking my opinion.

[Jill]

Lala, it's great to see you in here! I've never posted, but as an ex-Monkey myself, I could not resist posting my thoughts, briefly.

It is a fact, that a couple of Mods went into 'I have the power' mode. It got to where we could say nothing regarding our OWN OPINIONS, without being chastised and/or deleted posts.

In addition to this, the Mods got to where they would 'lock' the thread, while they edited certain posts to be in an 'attacking' manner, that is they CHANGED our posts, to look like we were breaking the rules. The proof was there, because as you know, when a thread is locked, you can only view it. You can't post...yet when you 'refreshed', each post would change. It was very obvious also, because font was used that can only be used by an administrator of the forum. This was done by the SM Mods with the intentions of getting several of the posters banned, myself included. I can attest to a few that emailed T & R, asking for explantions, and no response was ever received.

I hope T & R read this blog & my post. Sorry for my long post...guess it wasn't very brief. Dan, thank you for allowing me to vent my experience!

[Key West]

iquitos,
you raise the flag of truth, I Salute it.

[AWAW]

I was one of the SM members that also was banned after my posts WERE CHANGED by MODS. I never received a reply to my email to T or R, either. I must say that I've always come to RWV to get the first news on various stories I follow. SM has just plain "gone sour." The MODS got so "testy."

[bizman]

Exclusive footage of how the DNA got on Natalee's toothbrush is posted over at the Political Teen under the Fox News heading with Greta and Beth Twitty.It appears that a poster named Fabian has uncovered a most disturbing video of some of Natalee's activities while in Aruba.

This case gets stranger and stranger as everyday passes.WOW,is all I can say.

[Jen]

When I joined SM, the posters were a good group of people who expressed different opinions. I wasn't a member for long and it took a surprisingly short amount of time before the discussion dissolved into inane banter about toothaches, hissyfits, and the ever popular "You're just a troll!" accusations. It was so bizarre when post counts were removed and certain people flipped out. Who cares about Natalee when you've got that 500th post to work toward, I guess?

It's weird that certain posts were removed. A lot of the removed posts didn't have profanity, weren't inappropriate and were on topic, so it never made sense to me. Also, what happened over at coffeepotghost? I know it's kind of a kooky site but I enjoyed reading the Natalee Holloway clues and for a period of time they were gone, along with the Simian & Shango interpretations. The stuff about Natalee is up again, but there is a lot of the original "info" missing. I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck in an amateur murder-mystery play.

(Somewhere, there's a former Monkey fanatic cursing their decision to buy all that merchandise.)

Anyway, Dan, thanks for providing a place of discussion. We'll never agree on any political issues, but I respect your opinions and appreciate the opportunity to voice mine as well.

[Luckybelle]

Jen,

Glad you brought Coffeepotghost up. Sometime in the past few weeks, Charli very clearly stated on her site that the "Crimson Monkey" at Scared Monkeys (who is thought to be Red) had Aruba connections and was in on the plan to frame K2J. She urged people to think before posting any ideas, clues about the case because (in her words) "the wrong people were getting them." She urged people to send their ideas to the FBI Website and provided a link. That message was up for a week and then all Natalee clues were gone for a number of days. They're back, but her latest messages are confusing to say the least. I have been lurking and watching for something to happen at Scared Monkeys. And was surprised that nothing about the statement from Charli was posted and discussed. Maybe it was -- and maybe it was deleted. Something very strange is going on.

[SM Fan]

Funny, everyone wants to point fingers but know nothing about the truth.

Why don't you try Kat and Diva backed by another former posting vile liar who tore down the forum when RB and absolut were in charge.

As for posts, those were your two culprits and as LaLa and Wawa stated they changed posts etc.

I see they have hopped on board immediately to the NataleeHolloway.net site. I am sure they will do their work there.

As for SM, Tom and Red are great and I think they will figure everything out. It is time for a break. Secret sites being made, people trying to cause everyone else harm.

The internet is a scary place people. Problem is all this gossiping has taken away from the real reason SM made a forum, for Natalee Holloway.

Maybe you all should think about that a little. You should be ashamed.

[trystsong]

Posters were NOT right on the money about certain SM moderators. And the ones you think were good...you don't know the half of it. Some posters knew.

I won't go into it. But what I am seeing here is simply not true. I am not saying ALL mods were fair. But several were wonderful.

A lot of great posters there too but I saw some just continually whining and trying to play the mods and other posters. I am assuming I know of some of the posters who were banned because they disappeared right after starting a bunch of bull...

Anyway.....who knows what will happen, I miss the forum....I saw a lot of theories there I disagreed with...there were a lot of disagreeing opinions. But a GREAT group of posters except for the bad apples.

[trystsong]

Which mods were in "all-power mode"? I saw a great group of mods....for the most part...

Touche...I just can't believe Dan would devote a blog story to it. A lot of people read both SM and RWV...for Dan to post about it just adds to the drama. But whatever. It's ok...my thing is, I want Natalee Holloway to be found. I would like for Beth to have closure.

[trystsong]

>>

Now this I agree with. When you work hard on a blog and set up a forum, you need for your mods to be trustworthy and honest. It helps when the posters are too. :-P

[SM Fan]

Funny, everyone wants to point fingers but know nothing about the truth.

Why don't you try Kat and Diva backed by another former posting vile liar who tore down the forum when RB and absolut were in charge.

As for posts, those were your two culprits and as LaLa and Wawa stated they changed posts etc.

I see they have hopped on board immediately to the NataleeHolloway.net site. I am sure they will do their work there.

As for SM, Tom and Red are great and I think they will figure everything out. It is time for a break. Secret sites being made, people trying to cause everyone else harm.

The internet is a scary place people. Problem is all this gossiping has taken away from the real reason SM made a forum, for Natalee Holloway.

Maybe you all should think about that a little. You should be ashamed.

[Guest]

Actually, SM Fan, who says YOU know nothing of the truth? I will tell you the problem was not Starfish NOR Diva ;) Name has been mentioned in this blog already!

[Jill]

I recall Catriana being quite high on herself. Bring on the flames! LOL

[Another SM Fan]

SM Fan, you're totally on base here. The bad posters continually trying to get on the forum to spread their vile dissentions.

Nancy Drew, you were one of them. Your posts were way out there. You claimed to be a journalist during the Benet Ramsey case while actually just housing a witness for the case. You're not a journalist in any way. Nancy started her own site, bashing the SM forum. Then she whined to the owners of SM because she could not get back on. I suppose we could always post her complete site on a webpage for all to see how her hatred works. Some "laughable" Journalist huh?

Lala, one of the FPP'ers that went to posting cussing and dissention, were one of but a small group that thought they had the right to tear down anyone they wanted, including an Administrator. Then went to another site, MamaBedheads, to continue to diss and cause what they thought were problems, then they cried after but one day of the same treatment to themselves. How childish.

And then Jill, who happens to have been Katcalls, complains that she got banned for nothing. How about attacking an Admin both on and off the SM site continually? Then your posts at MamaBedheads? How sad you "forgot" about those "sins".

Paul? I believe you know fully well what happened to you. LOL. Singing the blues now because you were an idiot? Ah well, typical for the whiners. When SM opens up again, don't be surprised or whine a lot when you can no longer login? It's justice, no?

The real whiners here are the ones that caused so many of the problems on SM. Doesn't that figure? Crybabies usually do whine and carry on, then expect to be allowed back on the very forum they diss. That's just too sad.

[Another SM Fan]

Btw guest, hello Diva. Your information has been included in a lawsuit started yesterday btw. Lol. Good luck. Never never never put libelous information in any venue. Busted.

[Another SM Fan]

Btw guest, hello Diva. Your information has been included in a lawsuit started yesterday btw. Lol. Good luck. Never never never put libelous information in any venue. Busted.

[Sonnit]

Yea

The board went to the dogs. It started out ok, but then was moderated to death. And it turned into one big hen peck. Folks that actually had information to give, were either banned or so put off by the attitude, that they found other places to post.

The controlling faction worships Beth and will not accept that she is just a person and as such can/does make mistakes. Every statement she has made has been examined under the microscope and has been twisted, distorted and extended in the same manner as how a literature professor ruins a good book. This attitude has overflowed onto the front page and some of the postings there are really just soap opera mentality nonsense.

As for the mechanics of the board, it came off as a bunch of amateurs. And the recent closing, really just confirms that.

"We own the board and we'll do what we want...by the way can we have a donation?"

[Jill]

To Another SM Fan:

I am not Katcalls. You should have facts before assuming that you MIGHT be right. Oopsey!

[jimmy]

one of the main problems was when the wife started

Posted by: disenchanted monkey | Oct 13, 2005 9:54:28 PM

And there you have it.

[Jill]

I have no problem saying who I am. MOMfromMO. Believe what you wish...as you always did, on the wonderful SM sight. Pathetic. I am laughing my ass off at your ignorance. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Cheers!

The beatings shall commence, until morale improves! Here's to YOU, oh man of genius!

[jimmy]

Monkeys, no more quote stacks, NOW

grrr...

OH and by the way, you can thank military families like ours for being able to use boards like scaredmonkeys.net

LOL...what a joke