Pamela Vitale: Arrest In Murder of Horowitz Spouse

A damned teenager.

The name of the suspect was not released. Investigators were trying to determine the motive for the slaying, Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jimmy Lee said in announcing the arrest.

The suspect lived near the hilltop estate being constructed by Horowitz and his wife, Pamela Vitale, the San Francisco Chronicle and The Contra Costa Times reported on their Web sites, citing law enforcement sources.

Investigators believe the killing was related to a scheme that involved using stolen credit card numbers to fund a marijuana growing operation, an unidentified law enforcement source told the Chronicle.

The source said the boy had ordered equipment for the pot growing operation and mistakenly thought the supplies were delivered to Horowitz and Vitale's home.

The source said the suspect went there Saturday to look for the equipment and got in a fight with Vitale, allegedly striking her dozens of times in the head with a piece of crown molding that was left behind at the crime scene.

Comments

[carolina]

Pearl:

Yeah, I saw the pics, but it looks like the property was just rural to me, as major parts of the county tend to be.

You cannot buy a home (any home) in Lafayette for under $1MK, especially in that area and in the hills.

[Pearl]

Carolina, I haven't seen any pictures just read reports. Perhaps this place along a trail in the canyon is a older residence that is pre all the larger more affluent homes that have developed in the area. I don't know.

[Dan]

I went through the high school at my space 400+ members - big Goth crowd, music, etc ... couldnt find him. He had dropped out. I wonder what the American Joran/Kalpoe Myspace bashers would say if they saw some of those CA kids pages. Tame by comparison.

[Isanah]

Another issue indirectly in this horrific murder is the ineffectual drug war being fought in the United States. By making pot illegal, there will always be crime associated with the production of pot. Many millions of people continue to use this drug so there will always be those that meet that supply. This kid is just a small player and the crime he committed is just absurd. However, many other lives are lost over the cultivation, distribution, and selling of pot. If pot was legal and regulated there would not be so many lives ruined. Currently the only thing the drug war does is capture those low in the drug dealing business and fill up our jails and cost the tax payers their hard earned money. While those that are most dangerous, the drug cartels, line their pockets with money. America is never going to win the drug war the way it is currently operating, why don't they explore another approach.

We get all excited about these large drug busts, like the cocaine bust outside of Aruba, but the reality is that cocaine bust is just a small inconvenience for the drug cartels.
You may have the misconception that the drug war is for our children. Well, I can assure you that more families are destroyed, paricularly low income ones, by this fight against drugs that put these low level players into prison for dealing or possession of small amounts of drugs.

[ustt]

Steve Huff is naming the suspect on his site. Check it out.

Posted by: New Creature | Oct 20, 2005 8:47:15 PM

____________

Suspect is also named in the San Francisco Chronical article linked above here on this site.

[mary land]

Does anyone know how old this creature is? I keep seeing teen..guess he wont be tried as an adult and will be free in 2 years

[Captain Joe]

He'll be 17 next week.

[farmgirl]

What kind of parents did this vampire looking creep have ? His head should have been shaved, put in overalls and given a rake and put on a steet clean up gang..

How could you allow your child to look and groom like this guy?

I see them on the streets and in the mall and think...were were the parents when the body piercing and black eye tatoos started?

yep there I go again..blaming the parents..but he ordered a package of drug harvesting equipment..that takes money..and parents provide the money there fore the means.

[kin]

He WILL be tried as an adult in CA. Thank GOD!

[Pearl]

Can't point blame at parents without some reason and haven't seen any...Money is reported to be coming from scheme of robbing the neighborhood mailboxes of credit card information and using to finance his and another's plan to purchase materials needed for his pot growing future. Neighbors have been having mail stolen for a while per media reports.

[ustt]

I wonder if the kid was IN THE TRAILER during the time Dan Horowitz was calling those times during the day, and heard any message Dan was leaving?

Also, Dan said tonight on one interview that he was surprised Pam's car was there. Where was she supposed to be at that day -- where was she supposed to have been at 6 p.m. on a Saturday night I wonder?

Baden made a good point -- Baden says he's seen spouses take a shower after bludgoning another spouse to death, but he's never seen a STRANGER take a shower after a rage killing.

[Pearl]

Reports are that she fought very hard and that he had scratches to his face and legs when arrested. He lived in this area and with no sign of remorse, regret, etc. shown after killing her, I have no problem believing that he was cold enough to stay put and clean himself up and attempt to clean up the site before he went back down that trail to home. He must have been a bloody mess.

[mary land]

sorry, I'm pro death penalty on this one

there is not ONE good reason for this monster to live

hitting somone 30 something times in the head?This wasnt an accident, no excuse..he has no defense

[mary land]

Baden says he's seen spouses take a shower after bludgoning another spouse to death, but he's never seen a STRANGER take a shower after a rage killing.

he couldnt go home bloody...sure he could take a shower, it would have been silly not to!
wonder whats going through his parents minds' right about now....so sad

[sophie]

ustt-

She was supposed to be going to the Ballet with a friend.

That's why Dan sensed something was awry when he came home and saw her car still there.

[Pearl]

Let's not forget after killing her he took extra time to mark his kill by carving a Goth statement..a cross I hear...into her back. What's the problem with hanging around and enjoying his trophy mark and cleaning himself up a little. Reports state he drank a glass of water, washed his hands in the sink, took a long, long shower and somewhere washed his clothes that were found nearby having been washed with Oxyclean. Cold and dark mind here and probably a lucky thing caught now because the signs are he was pleasured by what he did and if he was it would probably have been hard not to repeat himself. My thought only on this.

[cindi in pa]

He WILL be tried as an adult in CA. Thank GOD!

Posted by: kin | Oct 20, 2005 10:16:48 PM

My understanding that has not been decided yet. If not then he could only be incarcerated until he was 25. The death penalty is not available to anyone under the age of 18 in this country. The laws were changed last year.

[ustt]

ustt-

She was supposed to be going to the Ballet with a friend.

That's why Dan sensed something was awry when he came home and saw her car still there.

Posted by: sophie | Oct 20, 2005 10:32:38 PM

================

Thanks sophie. I knew he had said he sensed something was not right when he arrived home and her car was there but didn't catch where she was supposed to have been.

Did you see my post about wondering if the person who killed her/took shower/etc. was/were there as Dan was calling through the day. I heard Nancy Grace earlier talking about how the condensation was still on the outside of the trailer from the shower that had been taken......and it was there when the police had gotten there that night.......so it makes me wonder exactly when this did take place! It would appear morning, but just how long does condensation stay on the outside of a trailer? Not only that, but I have never heard of condensation forming on the outside of a trailer - wow! that thing was a really ragged out trailer. I knew it looked a bit ragged from the pictures from Nancy Grace, but wow. ?no insulation whatsoever?

[kin]

I bet he did hear Dan leaving messages for Pam (he probably watched him leave home too) but how much did he care about getting caught?

He left his GOTH calling card carved on her back, his saliva all over a glass of water, and the murder weapon near the dead body. So why did he bother to clean himself up? I guess because he couldn't walk around looking like a bloody mess in broad daylight?

It's been reported all over tonight his sister was killed in a car crash 2 years ago. He supposedly was a normal kid (sports, ect) before that happened but that won't and doesn't make me change my mind one bit about wanting to see him get exactly what he deserves!

[mary land]

It's been reported all over tonight his sister was killed in a car crash 2 years ago

guess that will be the beginning of his defense

[kin]

Every single lawyer, prosecutor, and reporter talking believes he will be tried as an adult. CA changed their laws a few years ago just for monsters like him. I know he can't get the death penalty but a life sentence will do and that is an option if he's convicted.

[kin]

They will definitely use the sister's death but I have confidence the jury won't fall for it once they hear the brutal facts and look at the horrific pictures of Pam Vitale in the courtroom.

[ustt]

yeah, kin, and did you see/hear also that he washed clothes in some OxyClean? Unbelievable!

He didn't only leave a calling card, he left a darn novel.

[mary land]

poor Dan..I couldnt imagine
Sometimes people take their "unhappy" lives for granted..a situation like this really sheds light on just how bad things could be

[oneyka]

Kelly 3:

I was suspecting Dan of this horrible murder. Those interviews that he gave were painful to watch. I am relieved that it wasn't him. I had always thought of Dan as a kind and gentle soul
********************************************

Then why were you suspecting him?

[mary land]

He didn't only leave a calling card, he left a darn novel.

Posted by: ustt | Oct 20, 2005 11:20:14 PM

explain please?

[ustt]

I agree with the talking heads tonight though.........it is a stretch to go from "mam, did you accidentally get a package here that I wordered?".........to hitting someone 38 times with a piece of crown molding.

There has to be more to this story....where does the rage come in? The credit card scam/marijuana growing thing isn't explaining this murder.

Not only that, but I'm still stuck on when exactly she died. ...condensation on the trailer from the shower........she's still in her apparent sleeping wear.......no answer all day (when did Dan begin calling?)........

Were any calls made from the house land line during the day ------can you place Pam using the phone earlier that morning before this happened to her?

Did any of her friends hear from her earlier that morning? or through the day?

I have a feeling we, the public, are either being straight out lied to about some facts for the sake of investigation to throw off the perps......or we are getting incomplete information and there were several others involved in this.

Usually somebody will steal at least something when they go into a residence to commit a crime, even of rage-------it is a trophy to the criminal.

Did you hear one reporter tonight say Joseph Lynch was sitting in the front yard of this 16 YO's house today when they drove by????? How wild is that?

And I'm still stuck on WHERE ARE THE DOGS? sOMEBODY mentioned tonight that the dogs didn't bark? well, are these inside dogs? are they outside dogs?

Last night DH said the front door was ajar.

Tonight he said he "turned the knob to the front door".....

Now I'm confused, was the door ajar or closed?

Also, it will be interesting to see whose blood is splattered on the outside of the door.

And why did the whole attack only take place between the front door and the TV set in the living room? Yet there is evidence that the perp took a shower, got a drink of water ---does doing a crime cause thirst?----what other evidence is in there. I bet there is a pile of shit in that house also. Perps who commit certain types of crime leave behind certain calling cards such as that. I don't know if this crime is like that -- but there are certain things the criminal does at the scene. Wonder what this one did.

I'm not buying that the crown molding could only have been OUTSIDE. If Pam was considering it and looking at it, she could have had it inside for closer inspection and to look at it as she was in the house.

[ustt]

He didn't only leave a calling card, he left a darn novel.

Posted by: ustt | Oct 20, 2005 11:20:14 PM

explain please?

Posted by: mary land | Oct 20, 2005 11:27:57 PM

_________

well, listening to the TV is all I have to go by, but what interviews I've heard report this:

1. Drank a glass of water.
2. Took a shower.
3. The murder weapon has been found.
4. Washed clothes in the washing machine and left the pants. (I'm curious about THAT report!)

He has cuts and scratches on himself. Wonder if any antibodies of Pam's blood could be in his system at this point because her blood is in his blood stream?

His blood DNA has got to be "around" because he does have the wounds.

[kin]

yeah, kin, and did you see/hear also that he washed clothes in some OxyClean? Unbelievable!

He didn't only leave a calling card, he left a darn novel.

Posted by: ustt | Oct 20, 2005 11:20:14 PM

I saw that and a novel is right. Btw. Thanks for the quote tips. I just saw I got some from "curious" too. Get how simple this is! Highlight and hit control c. In the posting box hit control v. That's it!

[mary land]

thanks ustt..im gonna catch the late news here shortly

[suniskye]

Wow ... I'm impressed ... they did not even have a picture of this kid on fox late news tonite.

My heart goes out to Daniel Horowitz ... you can see the pain and hurt on his face and I honestly think it will be a long time before he can heal as you can tell in his words she was the love of his life and it is going to take a long time for him to not have her in his life anymore. I pray that the healing can begin now that the perpetrator has been caught.

I hope they decide to try him as an adult. They were talking about that and should decide tomorrow. I know he is only 16 but he committed an adult act, although probably not premeditated he still committed a crime (stealing their credit cards) prior to even going there that day....he needs to be tried as an adult and given an adult sentence. And, I think his mother needs to be considered an accomplice ... I think she knew he did it.

[LB]

what a loser.

[ustt]

I saw that and a novel is right. Btw. Thanks for the quote tips. I just saw I got some from "curious" too. Get how simple this is! Highlight and hit control c. In the posting box hit control v. That's it!

Posted by: kin | Oct 20, 2005 11:40:36 PM

_____

you're welcome kin. I tried to give you the basic beginner (ha ha) explanation. I know when I was first starting on a computer I was absolutely so lost, I didn't even know about how to hit the X, close out, nothing. Can you say FRUSTRATION! that was me.

There are a lot of ways to do things on these computers I finally learned. Like a thousand ways to get to Denver, LOL, but you get there just the same.
I kind of like not taking my hand off the mouse, lazy huh? ha ha

Probably about the time I conquer this computer, they will come out with something else. Like they did to me with the VCR. I finally learned how to set the time on it, and now there are no movies to play on it. I refuse to buy a DVD. Let me go to the great beyond just watching movies on TV, LOL. getting old and set in my ways I think.

[kin]

I agree with the talking heads tonight though.........it is a stretch to go from "mam, did you accidentally get a package here that I wordered?".........to hitting someone 38 times with a piece of crown molding.
---
But we don't know that's how it happened. He could've opened the unlocked door (they often didn't lock the doors) and surprised her or she could've caught him snooping around the house/property and she opened the door to tell him to get lost.
----
There has to be more to this story....where does the rage come in? The credit card scam/marijuana growing thing isn't explaining this murder.
----
Many believe there is more to the story but I can see rage if she was kicking his ass. She was much bigger then him, Dan said she was a "lion", and he probably didn't expect her to put up such a fight.
----
Not only that, but I'm still stuck on when exactly she died. ...condensation on the trailer from the shower........she's still in her apparent sleeping wear.......no answer all day (when did Dan begin calling?)........

Were any calls made from the house land line during the day ------can you place Pam using the phone earlier that morning before this happened to her?

Did any of her friends hear from her earlier that morning? or through the day?
-----
I believe we will find out it was early in the morning from the autopsy results and lack of phone contact. A very long shower may leave condensation and soaking wet soil that many hours later. I don't know anything about trailers but I'm sure LE does.
-------
Usually somebody will steal at least something when they go into a residence to commit a crime, even of rage-------it is a trophy to the criminal.
---------
This sicko left a trophy. He could've stole something too and it hasn't been reported to us.
-------
Did you hear one reporter tonight say Joseph Lynch was sitting in the front yard of this 16 YO's house today when they drove by????? How wild is that?
------
I did and some think maybe they were in cahoots or he fed this kid some of his hate towards the H's.
-------
And I'm still stuck on WHERE ARE THE DOGS? sOMEBODY mentioned tonight that the dogs didn't bark? well, are these inside dogs? are they outside dogs?
--------
The property is so big if they were outside they may have been far away and if they did bark who would've heard them anyway? If they were inside they obviously didn't attack the killer whoever it was.
------
Last night DH said the front door was ajar.

Tonight he said he "turned the knob to the front door".....

Now I'm confused, was the door ajar or closed?
------
I heard both things too but he's still so distraught I don't think he even knows what he's saying or what exactly he did at the time.
-----
Also, it will be interesting to see whose blood is splattered on the outside of the door.
------
I assume the door was open during the attack so I assume it's hers. NG said there was blood splatter as high as 4 feet on the walls.
-----
I'm not buying that the crown molding could only have been OUTSIDE. If Pam was considering it and looking at it, she could have had it inside for closer inspection and to look at it as she was in the house.
----
NG said there was molding inside the trailer, she saw it there yesterday, and for the reason you said.

Posted by: ustt | Oct 20, 2005 11:33:39 PM

[oceanside]

I really don't understand why some wealthy Americans want to live on isolated land. One of the reasons the Manson family picked Sharon's Tate's house
for their slaughter was because the house was isolated. In addition, the rich flaunt their wealth with expensive cars, homes, etc. making them easy
targets for crime.

I would never want to live on the property where DH was building his house,
even though the views are gorgeous.

Another thing that baffles me is why DH and his wife stayed on the property, even though they were have trouble with Lynch. Their wealth affords them to live anyplace they want, why live next to someone you have a restraining order against. It doesn't make sense to me.

If i won a big lottery tomorrow, I would not move out of my middle class neighborhood, for the reasons stated above.

[kin]

oceanside..It was so isolated they were sitting ducks in that trailer. They had a mental case with a grudge on the property so they had to be living in fear right? Pam was a very brave (some may say foolish) woman. I wouldn't have lasted there one night.

[KatieJo]

All we have is rumors and we all know that half of it probably isn't true. What's to keep a killer from leaving the mark on her back to frame someone else? Obviously it works for 99% of the posters on this board. The boy may have killer her but I still reserve my judgment until I hear the other side of this, not leaks from police to irresponsible reporters especially FOX reporters. Something just doesn't ring right with this story. Even the police say they are still searching for a MOTIVE. If the boy did kill her, then this country better wake up and try to find out why our young people are so violent.

[inshockAGAIN]

My God, what is our world coming to these days? A freakin' KID did this........this kind of stuff is flat scary.

[ustt]

I agree with the talking heads tonight though.........it is a stretch to go from "mam, did you accidentally get a package here that I wordered?".........to hitting someone 38 times with a piece of crown molding.
---
But we don't know that's how it happened. He could've opened the unlocked door (they often didn't lock the doors) and surprised her or she could've caught him snooping around the house/property and she opened the door to tell him to get lost.
(by kin)
----------------

SO why hit her 38 more times? He's in. He has incapacitated her. Why not go look for what he's looking for and get the hucky puck out?

The point the talking heads was making I think is.....credit card fraud does not make rage to this point. And I have to agree. There is a huge piece of this murder missing.

They said to night the reason for the rage is not necessary in California to take it to trial. Maybe we won't ever know.?

[kin]

I agree with the talking heads tonight though.........it is a stretch to go from "mam, did you accidentally get a package here that I wordered?".........to hitting someone 38 times with a piece of crown molding.
---
But we don't know that's how it happened. He could've opened the unlocked door (they often didn't lock the doors) and surprised her or she could've caught him snooping around the house/property and she opened the door to tell him to get lost.
(by kin)
----------------

SO why hit her 38 more times? He's in. He has incapacitated her. Why not go look for what he's looking for and get the hucky puck out?

The point the talking heads was making I think is.....credit card fraud does not make rage to this point. And I have to agree. There is a huge piece of this murder missing.

They said to night the reason for the rage is not necessary in California to take it to trial. Maybe we won't ever know.?

Posted by: ustt | Oct 21, 2005 1:18:16 AM

ustt..My point was I don't think it started out with him innocently asking for the package. I think he tried to break in or she caught him snooping around and now I'm thinking maybe she even figured out he was involved in the stolen mail/credit card business and threatened to call the cops. They get into it and he ends up, like Dan said, in the fight of his life and he's close to losing. We don't know when he picked up the murder weapon but once he did he never stopped hitting her. The rage had already kicked in and after the deed was done I think he felt pretty good about it. Everything he did after points to that and with a GOTH sicko like this why look for a logical motive?

[suniskye]

They said on the news tonite that both Dan and his wife were familiar with the boy and his family and that they had even given him access to the property ... he had the passcode numbers for the front gate. However they did not say for what purpose the kid had access. So her opening the door, in that instance, is not a big deal because she and Dan had helped his mother/family with a legal issue in the past...that was what one of Dan's friends said on the news. So it was not someone she did not know. Also, apparently when a reporter from Fox news went to interview that guy Lynch the mother of this kid was there and got in front of him and said she knows Lynch didn't do it .... this was all stated on last night's news ... it has not been proven and I am just repeating what I heard.

[kin]

I've heard Dan's friends say they don't believe Pam ever met him or his family. If that's true I can see her especially freaking out when she saw this SCARY looking kid on her property, at her door, or already inside.

I don't think Dan knew he turned into a GOTH freak (or he didn't see or know about the GOTH carving?) because he told Rita Cosby's producer to go talk to these "nice people" in the area to see if they may have seen something suspicious that day. Another thing we learned last night from Rita Cosby's show is the neighbors got together recently about the stolen mail, credit cards, and strange deliveries. They all feel the mother has something to do with it. I don't get why her (and not the freaky son) but it doesn't sound like Dan knew anything about that either or why still call them "nice people"?

Also, it looks like the mother was onto something as early as Sunday, the day after the murder. Supposedly, she sent the kid to her friend's house and told her he was put on "restrictions". He was there until his father picked him up. She didn't show up for work on Monday and hasn't been there since. Her boss assumes she's "quit" her job. LE says they were turned onto the kid through the TIP line, could it be this friend?

A criminologist on Rita's show made a good but very sad point. Pam was the type to confront him and because of his twisted nature it escalated into murder. The only way this 5'5/110lb creep was going to beat a very strong 5'11 Pam was with a weapon. My guess is once he began to beat her he liked how it felt and that's why he beat her 39 times. When he's convicted forget about a (life?) sentence, just beat him 39 times over the head and be done with him.

[tam]

kin,

in reference to your 'goth freak' and 'scary looking' comments... part of the problem with today's new violent teen is just THAT: our society absolutely ENCOURAGES (through popular culture and stupid yuppy parents) its teens to taunt/tease/castigate those who are 'different.' it is terrible. in almost every case of school violence (this kid wasn't in school anymore, so thankfully the school kids didn't get shot up) a bunch of bratty, spoiled, gossipy kids are interviewed and talk about how 'different' the kid is. it is high time we as adults took responsibility for the fact that our kids are a reflection of US, and should be taught respect, manners, and to never taunt or tease another person- our parents were taught these things, but for some reason today's generation of parents would rather call it "normal behavior." the kid's sister died, he had difficulty dealing, and he was taunted and teased at school... he was angry, and he took it out- probably turned to drugs and this horrible crime was the result. it is time for our nation to be honest, time for educators to be honest (too many teachers actually condone the clique behavior, have observed it myself), and time to make some serious changes in what we allow our kids to do- what we buy them, and what we teach them to value.

the last time i saw a symathetic teen was years ago. and yes, they used to exist.

-t-

[tam]

kin,

in reference to your 'goth freak' and 'scary looking' comments... part of the problem with today's new violent teen is just THAT: our society absolutely ENCOURAGES (through popular culture and stupid yuppy parents) its teens to taunt/tease/castigate those who are 'different.' it is terrible. in almost every case of school violence (this kid wasn't in school anymore, so thankfully the school kids didn't get shot up) a bunch of bratty, spoiled, gossipy kids are interviewed and talk about how 'different' the kid is. it is high time we as adults took responsibility for the fact that our kids are a reflection of US, and should be taught respect, manners, and to never taunt or tease another person- our parents were taught these things, but for some reason today's generation of parents would rather call it "normal behavior." the kid's sister died, he had difficulty dealing, and he was taunted and teased at school... he was angry, and he took it out- probably turned to drugs and this horrible crime was the result. it is time for our nation to be honest, time for educators to be honest (too many teachers actually condone the clique behavior, have observed it myself), and time to make some serious changes in what we allow our kids to do- what we buy them, and what we teach them to value.

the last time i saw a symathetic teen was years ago. and yes, they used to exist.

and it is interesting how you "guess" that once he began to beat her he liked how it felt. i doubt he liked the scratches and kicks he received. she kicked so hard that the crown molding had her foot imprint on it. it probably took 39 hits to even win- she was quite the tough lady. i'm suprised he prevailed.

if even 10% of the people in this society had 10% of the empathy that dan horowitz has, we'd be better off. can't fix problems we don't own up to- so much easier to talk and yap about 'creeps' and 'twisted' natures. how will that change anything?

-t-

[tam]

sorry for the double post above- thought i had stopped the first one before posted and added to it-

i hate to slander a dead woman- but do think we should wait for all facts to come out before we deem her a patron saint. the scenario is rather strange... and for SOME reason horowitz and his best friend and vitale's family felt the need to start defending her reputation BEFORE the killer was arrested. my husband and i both noticed it, and thought it odd (didn't know anything about the teen then). if you think back, they just kept on and on talking about how wonderful she was, in a certain way- as if they were defending her against some unmentioned accusation.

i just hope i'm wrong about that... and hope that at some point america will wake up and get honest about its kids-

-t-

[kin]

it is high time we as adults took responsibility for the fact that our kids are a reflection of US, and should be taught respect, manners, and to never taunt or tease another person- our parents were taught these things, but for some reason today's generation of parents would rather call it "normal behavior."
-t-

Posted by: tam | Oct 21, 2005 2:39:39 PM

I don't condone making any kid an outcast and I don't think cliques are the way to go but that's been around forever. I'm not sure what the solution is, do you? Many parents have talked to their kids about this but they're not in the schools to see if they've listened. They can only hope so. How the outcast reacts is out of those parents hands and up to that kid's parents. If they see GOTH behavior they should seek HELP because it's a sign that something's probably terribly WRONG! If you look at what most GOTH kids are into you'll know what I mean.
------
and it is interesting how you "guess" that once he began to beat her he liked how it felt. i doubt he liked the scratches and kicks he received. she kicked so hard that the crown molding had her foot imprint on it. it probably took 39 hits to even win- she was quite the tough lady. i'm suprised he prevailed.
----
You make it sound like he was protecting himself but she was protecting herself from the blows. And I can't believe you honestly think it took 39 hits to the head to "win". My "guess" also comes from the GOTH carving he made on her corpse, a sure sign he had no remorse, and how long it took him to leave the murder scene.
------
if even 10% of the people in this society had 10% of the empathy that dan horowitz has, we'd be better off. can't fix problems we don't own up to- so much easier to talk and yap about 'creeps' and 'twisted' natures. how will that change anything?
--------
Pam Vitale is DEAD! Dan's beloved wife is GONE! That won't ever change. My empathy is with them right now. 100%. This "twisted creep" and HIS parents had a chance to fix his problem but they didn't. Don't you think we should ask them why not?

[A friend of Scott]

I am a friend of Scott and I feel as though there is more to this than what the media is assuming. Scott isn't violent. He may look "dark" on the outside, but he's a total softie. He's FAR from the label "sinister" that is being used to describe him.

Maybe it was him, and maybe it wasn't. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? Considering the convicting articles the media is spreading, I'd assume they disagree. And what about his picture and name released? It's everywhere and he's still sixteen! Obviously they just want to sell papers, but sacrificing the rights of a minor is NOT the proper way to go about it.It's really to bad that society has this awful tendency to use individuals as scapegoats for their shortcomings.

To the point: IF Scott was involved, it seems highly unlikely that he did it alone. In addition, he would have had to have been TOTALLY drugged up to ever commit such a crime. I know Scott. He is one of the most caring people I have ever met and he wouldn't hurt a fly.

[curious]

Friend of Scott,

Did he tell you how he got the cuts and scratches all over his body?

[skeptical]

FRIEND OF SCOTT:

I sympathize with you.

I know its hard to believe when your friend does something as horrific as this. I know the pain and disbelief all too well.
My nephew was convicted of a similar incident 10 years ago. Even Today I still can't believe he was capable. Its hard to fathom that someone you feel know so well could have so much rage inside of them.

If there were others involved in this crime, they will be found out soon enough. I'm with you on that one, I don't believe Scott acted alone.

[D.]

Let's not jump to conclustions. Do you remember the murder case of Carole Sund (Mother with her daughter and daughter's freind) in the yosemity area? The confessed killer (Cary Stayner) was cleared by the police as a suspect and then later arrested and convicted after he beheaded a park ranger or naturalist in the area.

It seems somewhat unbelievable to me that a young boy troubled or not would engage in this violent attack and then carve a symbol linking him to the crime in his victim.

Anything is possible but unless one want's to get caught it just doesn't sit well with me. To me it is more believeable that someone else in the area (who murdered Pam) knowing the young Scott could have done this to point the blame elsewhere.

And granted it could have been the young boy - some sort of break with reality - rage or extream fear. But the calling card that is a little difficult to believe.

I mean unless this kid was a serial killer in the making - then it sounds more like re-direction to me.