Natalee Holloway

Damn!

And Damn, again!

Sit up straight - it's lofty reading. It's sort of like what I have been saying, only it's sporting a Ph.D.

Comments

[hardyandtiny]

Sounds like the author hasn't travelled around much. The USA is one of the lest ethnocentric nations in the world.
Notice the way he redefines ethnocentrism and exposes his racism.

"The belief in one's own country's "dominant" race.....blah blah blah"

Nonsense.

[mona]

Oh so now your saying ethnocentrism is bad? LOL tell that to the Iraqis who are voting today....American dominance is right when it suits our purpose and wrong when it it hurts anther country's tourism? LOL What a hypocrite..get a grip of yourself man

[aris]

Posted by: macarena | Oct 15, 2005 5:11:06 AM

Since Beth claims that Natalee did not go to bars in Alabama...

Beth would likely be correct on this as our legal drinking age here in Alabama is 21 years of age, and Natalee was under the age of 21 so Natalee would legally not have been drinking in bars here in Alabama.

[INK]

Interesting article and I don't care if the guy is named "Festus". I've done a fair amount of traveling and have seen first-hand the "arrogant American" in other countries.

BTW, I also hope SM is up and running soon so all the BHT synchophants can return to their usually scheduled program, where intelligent debate is not permitted.

[mc]

I believe that the 3 ex-suspects know they could simple take a voice stress test or lie detector test to verify their stories. It would vindicate them and help to redirect the energy of everyone concerned in this investigation.
It would help Natalee.
But they haven't and I believe they won't. Why?
Why would you not offer to take a lie detector test to verify your statements? There is a simple answer.

"Liars lie to avoid what the truth will bring"

[mc]

I believe that the 3 ex-suspects know they could simple take a voice stress test or lie detector test to verify their stories. It would vindicate them and help to redirect the energy of everyone concerned in this investigation.
It would help Natalee.
But they haven't and I believe they won't. Why?
Why would you not offer to take a lie detector test to verify your statements, especially if you lied first? It causes me great suspicion.

"Liars lie to avoid what the truth will bring"

[Sly2SmoothieNJs]

The Alamo:

Gee, seems like your the one upset because I had an opinion of MY own, get a life, and stay out, you haven't even been here in while, so don't pop in and take try to take over.

I think you belong in the 18 and under section. They might be discussing Michael Jackson at the moment, so hurry over.

[Sly2SmoothieNJs]

The Alamo:

Gee, seems like your the one upset because I had an opinion of MY own, get a life, and stay out, you haven't even been here in while, so don't pop in and take try to take over.

I think you belong in the 18 and under section. They might be discussing Michael Jackson at the moment, so hurry over.
Impostor!

[iquitos]

1. joran did not say she was going in and out of consciousness, Mrs Twitty did quoting undisclosed statements of unknown procedence, unsigned by the deponent and unconfirmed by other sources. the poice investigator has denied there was ever such a statement of possubly illegal sexual activitiy. deepak is quoted in a heavily edited contextually suspect tape in response to a leading question that they all had sex with her.

2. natalee drank possible responsibly according to the MB witneses who have spoken publicly (two kids). some unattributed sources, not the suspects. relate behaviour possibly indicative of less responsible drinking. alchohol related death is possible but not probable. more likely is alcohol mixed with prescription and/or illicit drugs followed by accidental death, if she is dead at all and not kidnapped or just gone (latter unlikeIy without assistance).

[iquitos]

1. joran did not say she was going in and out of consciousness, Mrs Twitty did quoting undisclosed statements of unknown procedence, unsigned by the deponent and unconfirmed by other sources. the police investigator has denied there was ever such a statement of possibly illegal sexual activitiy. deepak is quoted in a heavily edited contextually suspect audio tape in response to a leading question that they all had sex with her.

2. natalee drank, possibly responsibly according to the MB witnesses (two) who have spoken publicly but in general terms. One judged her to be "OK" on leaving the club. some unattributed sources, not the suspects. relate behaviour possibly indicative of less responsible drinking. alchohol related death is possible but not probable. more likely is alcohol mixed with prescription and/or illicit drugs followed by accidental death, if she is dead at all and not kidnapped or just gone (latter unlikeIy without assistance).

[iquitos]

1. joran did not say she was going in and out of consciousness, Mrs Twitty did quoting undisclosed statements of unknown procedence, unsigned by the deponent and unconfirmed by other sources. the police investigator has denied there was ever such a statement of possibly illegal sexual activitiy. deepak is quoted in a heavily edited contextually suspect audio tape in response to a leading question that they all had sex with her.

2. natalee drank, possibly responsibly according to the MB witnesses (two) who have spoken publicly but in general terms. One judged her to be "OK" on leaving the club. some unattributed sources, not the suspects. relate behaviour possibly indicative of less responsible drinking. alchohol related death is possible but not probable. more likely is alcohol mixed with prescription and/or illicit drugs followed by accidental death, if she is dead at all and not kidnapped or just gone (latter unlikeIy without assistance).

[YouKnowWho!]

Posted by: YouKnowWho! | Oct 15, 2005 2:19:36 AM

Hi Seedyrum! back checking things out?

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 15, 2005 7:42:22 AM

I'm not seedyrum at all but do take note that your only defense is to launch a personal attack on me. Very lame but typical. Maybe you could also call me Island Hopper but that was before your time here, wasn't it? Just another catch all for those with no real answer, one of GrannyToad's ad homeims. And being one, you should know Americans are not as stupid as to believe anything we are told no matter who does the telling. Unless, of course, you are not really American at all and have no clue about that.

I do admire your persistence and you are doing as good a job as can be expected for the Aruban tourist industry. It's not because of Beth I will not be back but the unwarranted attacks on Americans in general by both Dutch and Arubans on the island. Don't want any of that urine-flavored food that some Arubans claim is now the island's specialty for Americans.

[berry]

To me what is likely that they had something to do with her disappearance, is that they drove her to the beach and Joran left her there. Other than that, I'm not seeing any evidence of a crime they are involved in.

Natalee's friends asked her to get out of the car and she said, "No." She then yelled, "Woo hoo Aruba!" Where in that sequence, is evidence of being poisoned by a date rape drug, thinking she was in a taxi, or being semi-conscious and a kidnap victim, or participating in an evening's ride with 3 guys against her will? Where is there any indication from those known events, that she was then gang raped, murdered and her remains hidden?

Those events occurred around 1:15- 1:30 AM. By 2AM Deepak was chatting online with a friend in the USA, having dropped off Joran. By 2:40 AM Joran was on his cell looking for a ride. By 3AM he was at home.

The problem with trio bashers and BT is that no one wants to accept the timeline. It is established the young people were together and has never been denied. But now forensic examination of text messages and computer records fill in many of the blanks.

LE 101 - Draw a timeline and fill it in hour by hour even minute by minute. The timeline favors innocence and that is something not even cops appear to accept.

[amber]

Nice post Berry

[JMac]

Beth Twitty is a moron.....Her daughter is dead in a foreign land and very little progress has been made in finding out what has happened.....And sometimes; she speaks from the cuff insulting Aruba and their entire legal system.....Why she didn't hire a top-tier public relations team to make sure she didn't come across as a typical "Arrogant American" while pacifying Dan and his followers at the same time will always be one of life's great mysteries I guess..... I know if my daughter was killed that would be the first thing on my agenda.....(And if you don't understand sarcasm; please don't respond to this post.)

[Robert]

Why not put a stop on your spinning brains for a moment and give this situation some careful thought? And, begin with who is missing. It’s not Joran, Deepak, Satish, Paulus, Freddie, Steve, or any of the other canines on that island that sniff out easy targets. It is one young, naive female that trusted too much and disappeared without a trace after her encounter with these clowns.

Let the vulgarity die its own death and look toward the reality! This girl left with three and never came back….

Posted by: Dez_Perado | Oct 14, 2005 11:12:41 PM

______________________

Get real! These three men are not clowns. They are men entitled to the process of law like everyone in a civilized society. You have a fault and that is you want to blame people without proof. After all in your mind and the minds of the pinheads in the press these three did it because it is quick and convienent to hang them. Thought, what will you do if time shows they had nothing to do with Natalee's vanish?

[TheAlamo]

The Alamo:

Gee, seems like your the one upset because I had an opinion of MY own, get a life, and stay out, you haven't even been here in while, so don't pop in and take try to take over.

I think you belong in the 18 and under section. They might be discussing Michael Jackson at the moment, so hurry over.

Posted by: Sly2SmoothieNJs | Oct 15, 2005 10:05:55 AM

Upset? Not at all. Seems like you are the one wanting to take your dolly and go home. I did not see any members only sign on this particular thread, nor did I see any ownership attributed to you. This particular thread was in regards to what was written by the author showcased, and is not the normal Natalie Holloway thread anyway...but I guess you don't have the capacity to understand that.

The 18 and under thread must actually be here since you and other groupthink moguls seem to be congregated here.
And, you showcase your own maturity level by the ridiculous "ordering" me out of here. And you have the audacity to claim you are an adult?

I will post where I want, when I want, and say what is on my mind. If it is too much for you to deal with (and that is obvious), then my suggestion is not read it.
Other than that, don't let your mom catch you playing on her computer...you might get a spanking.

[b]

Posted by: macarena | Oct 15, 2005 5:11:06 AM

Since Beth claims that Natalee did not go to bars in Alabama...

Beth would likely be correct on this as our legal drinking age here in Alabama is 21 years of age, and Natalee was under the age of 21 so Natalee would legally not have been drinking in bars here in Alabama.

Posted by: aris | Oct 15, 2005 8:35:41 AM

Get a grip, despite the best efforts of homeland security, be assured that every high school and college kid in america knows where to obtain a fake id which would allow them to drink in all the bars. If you keep your head in the sand, and do not look at the victim as the vibrant, all american teenager she is/was and buy the party line of those who might not really have known who she was/is then you are only going to continue impeding this investigation.

I would also like to ask, why is it that you all assume that the investigation, which was done with the FBI, despite what all of you say, is being botched? Their system allows them two years to gather evidence.
In one respect what has occurred is a view of americans which is not pretty. Maybe money and pseudo class allows you to make demands in this country but behaving like a spoiled brat and thinking you have an entitlement simply because you are an american doesn't go over well in the rest of the world. All of Condi Rice's hard work is being denegrated by the acts committed by "spoiled dmanding southerners".

[lefty]

1. "Something bad happened"
2. "No body no case"

[b]

I believe that the 3 ex-suspects know they could simple take a voice stress test or lie detector test to verify their stories. It would vindicate them and help to redirect the energy of everyone concerned in this investigation.
It would help Natalee.
But they haven't and I believe they won't. Why?
Why would you not offer to take a lie detector test to verify your statements? There is a simple answer.

"Liars lie to avoid what the truth will bring"

For the record, NO respected defense attorney in the United States would ever allow a client to take a lie detector test, PERIOD. Why, because, whether guilty or innocent, the instrument is too variable. If this were not so it would be required in every criminal case don;t you think?

[Bella]

Yep, and O.J. is walking around free as well.

Posted by: TheAlamo | Oc

OJ did not win his case; rather, the prosecution lost theirs. JMHO Therefore, I think that the Aruba LE and the prosecutor should take all the time necessary to construct a winning case for the accountability of these 3 boys and the father (that is, of course, if they are guilty which I personally believe they probably are)

[b]

and...before you come down on me for my comments about southerners...i am one, born and bred, so I can say what I want about my own.

[VASteve]

I am struck by the last paragraph, as I have said similar things in the past. Very insightful!

"They assumed that any Aruban, dissatisfied with how an American city was executing an investigation of a missing Aruban citizen, could breezily fly in and out of the USA, literally take over the country by press releases, meetings with the political and other leaders, bring in their own Aruban investigative team and solve the problem. Voila!"

This guy is good. I too wish he were more visible in American media. A voice of fresh air!

[VASteve]

Get a grip, despite the best efforts of homeland security, be assured that every high school and college kid in america knows where to obtain a fake id which would allow them to drink in all the bars.
Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 11:57:51 AM

This is a lie, therefore you are a liar and none of your information should be believed.

[VASteve]

"Liars lie to avoid what the truth will bring"

Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 12:18:00 PM

Why did you post a lie, what truth are you trying to avoid?

[VASteve]

Cat got your tongue, b?

[VASteve]

and...before you come down on me for my comments about southerners...i am one, born and bred, so I can say what I want about my own.

Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 12:30:59 PM

Based on you as a sample set, I believe all southerners must be liars. I just thought they were dumasses.

[iquitos]

i don't understand the reasoning of those who say natalee did not go to bars because the legal drinking age is 21. why is the legal drinking age 21? because of a societal decsion that drinking is not good for the young. so the question. if you accept the societal decision to restrict drinking to protect the young why do you allow your daughter to go on a trip to aruba where the drinks are included in tha packaga and you can circumvent the US drinking rules. personally, i think the age should be lowered to 18, voting and war fighting age. but i find it hypocritical of some to swear natalee absolutely did not dring in AL out of respect for the law (which few respect) and the say it is ok to cross a border and drink to excess. does not follow ethically IMO

[b]

his is a lie, therefore you are a liar and none of your information should be believed.

Posted by: VASteve | Oct 15, 2005 12:50:54 PM
careful what you say on the internet. This is the truth and if you call me a liar again I can assure you that you will be hearing from my attorney. I like going into unchartered territory.

[scubajap]

But they haven't and I believe they won't. Why?
Why would you not offer to take a lie detector test to verify your statements? There is a simple answer

Yes, there is-because they have been told by their lawyers to just SHUT UP and not talk to anybody. period.

[scubajap]

Actually scubajap, Im finding a lot of humor in your efforts.
I saw where MIP6 had posted about me having kids at MB which is pretty odd since I have none. That was a kick, so you might want to check you're facts before you start posting anti anything (just fair warning). whats more you're own peeps on Carlos and Charlies are (were they locked the thread, I expect to see it go missing anytime now) posting about the den being a real establishment of i'll repute (next to the vip) poor mip6 is "staking out" the wrong place, some pretty good investigation work there MIP6, maybe you should let the real pros like your local LE handle it? Odebers son poped on just so he could say that he also knows of the lions den - cried about not being able to go there so he wouldn't get in trouble lol. Wow some pretty good stories.. Next we'll all hear that Dompig isn't the kalpoes cousin at all right? Check those birth records out before you post though you don't want to be exposed for being a liar anymore then you have.
hat tips to your efforts even if they are are just made up stories. Say hi to my kids for me ta ta.....

Posted by: ringo | Oct 15, 2005 7:55:43 AM
????????????????
What? what kids? And who are you anyway-and MIP6-who is that? I have absolutely no idea who or what you are talking about-All I know is I have been to the VIP club twice now, and any of you can go there too if you are in Aruba, I ate at the Indo with my son, so-so nothing to jump up and down about-too much MSG,
and I spoke to the lady that lives in the house next door-the one in the picture that is the so called "Lion's Den" and she didn't like be bothered very much, either.

I find it very interesting that the Kalpoes cousin would be so hell bent on putting them back in jail, wouldn't you?

Who are these people??

[doanyofyoureallycare?]

I'm not seedyrum at all but do take note that your only defense is to launch a personal attack on me. Very lame but typical. Maybe you could also call me Island Hopper but that was before your time here, wasn't it? Just another catch all for those with no real answer, one of GrannyToad's ad homeims. And being one, you should know Americans are not as stupid as to believe anything we are told no matter who does the telling. Unless, of course, you are not really American at all and have no clue about that.

I do admire your persistence and you are doing as good a job as can be expected for the Aruban tourist industry. It's not because of Beth I will not be back but the unwarranted attacks on Americans in general by both Dutch and Arubans on the island. Don't want any of that urine-flavored food that some Arubans claim is now the island's specialty for Americans.

Posted by: YouKnowWho! | Oct 15, 2005 10:29:46 AM

Well said whomever you are. I remember the early days when this site cared about Natalee. Do any of you really care anymore or is this just about seeing your ramblings in print?

As for the Aruban people; you too will be judged for your action or inaction.

I continue to pray for Natalee and that Beth gets the truth. Dan, I am surprised at your comments about the very people you used to back. What happened to change your mind?

Peace...

[doanyofyoureallycare?]

Yes, there is-because they have been told by their lawyers to just SHUT UP and not talk to anybody. period.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 15, 2005 1:25:43 PM

And why do you suppose they lawyers told them that?

[VASteve]

his is a lie, therefore you are a liar and none of your information should be believed.

Posted by: VASteve | Oct 15, 2005 12:50:54 PM
careful what you say on the internet. This is the truth and if you call me a liar again I can assure you that you will be hearing from my attorney. I like going into unchartered territory.

Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 1:08:46 PM

Go to your attorney. Have fun. Liar.

[Bitsey]

>>And why do you suppose they lawyers told them that?

Posted by: doanyofyoureallycare? | Oct 15, 2005 1:48:59 PM<<

Because they paid their lawyers to tell them that.

Why are you wasting bandwidth asking such inane questions?

[scubajap]

Because everytime they say anything, it starts another feeding frenzy, and doesn't really help anything. And that is what ANY lawyer anywhere would tell their clients to do-something that lawyers from the states have said over and over again on television when they have been consulted.
And who would do the polygraph? Jamie Skeeters?
I DON'T THINK SO
And the voice layering stuff has already been proven to be BS. They tested it on a reporter here, and of all the questions they asked him-true and false-the only false statement they picked up, was one that was true! So much for voice layering.

[VASteve]

be assured that every high school and college kid in america knows where to obtain a fake id which would allow them to drink in all the bars.
Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 11:57:51 AM

I'd like you to tell everyone why this isn't a lie. Better yet, have your attorney tell us. All I need to do is find one kid that doesn't know to make this a lie.

[scubajap]

Posted by: VASteve | Oct 15, 2005 1:59:47 PM

Guys, you and b both seem to be pretty intelligent and open minded-what are you fighting about? is it worth it? I am trying to pick up the thread of how this started, but I can't seem to get it-you both usually are pretty reasonable-what is the big deal?

[VASteve]

I am in a no-spin mood. I hate when people say things as fact and then draw conclusions from a non-fact and lead folks into a corner that they don't know how they got there.

It annoys me. Sorry.

[VASteve]

The voice-layering stuff would be interesting, though, wouldn't it? Too bad it doesn't work.

[scubajap]

Get a grip, despite the best efforts of homeland security, be assured that every high school and college kid in america knows where to obtain a fake id which would allow them to drink in all the bars.
Posted by: b | Oct 15, 2005 11:57:51 AM

This is a lie, therefore you are a liar and none of your information should be believed.

Posted by: VASteve | Oct 15, 2005 12:50:54 PM
Ok-found it-so this is what this is all about?

ok-let's maybe say b's statement is a bit of a broad generalization, and there are plenty of those on this board all the time, but two reasonable people like you, that basically agree on things don't have to fight so bitterly. there is enough of that amongst people that disagree on the basic issues. You guys are usually on the same page-so why fight with each other-isn't that very unconsructive?

[VASteve]

And, while I'm in my no-spin mood, don'y you find it infuriating when people post stuff that misleads? I can see we agre on that topic. You are just as frustrated as I am with that.

The one thing I agree with GrannyToad about is people posting red herrings. I just happen to think she is also a master of it, but her posts speak for them selves.

It's emotion that seems to rule, not logic and reason. Post that you disagree with the way Beth has handled things and BAM it's all over, even if the post is logical and reasonable.

Too bad. I think the authorities would be closer to a resolution if emotion didn't get in the way of factual and logical investiations.

[roy]

Since the invasion of the SM-gang I have a more positive opinion of all Dan's readers and posters, even of granny.
Sure hope they re-open the cage at SM real soon.

[VASteve]

ok-let's maybe say b's statement is a bit of a broad generalization, and there are plenty of those on this board all the time, but two reasonable people like you, that basically agree on things don't have to fight so bitterly. there is enough of that amongst people that disagree on the basic issues. You guys are usually on the same page-so why fight with each other-isn't that very unconsructive?

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 15, 2005 2:10:23 PM

It's because we tend to agree that I'd prefer his logic to be more sound and less emotional. Yes, it was an exaggeration, but I don't like that, sorry. It waters down the facts and logic and weakens the main point. B doesn't need to make that statement to strengthen his/her position.

[VASteve]

Since the invasion of the SM-gang I have a more positive opinion of all Dan's readers and posters, even of granny.
Sure hope they re-open the cage at SM real soon.

Posted by: roy | Oct 15, 2005 2:12:40 PM

What does this mean Roy?

[z]

hi scuba...on university campuses it is blatantly obvious that kids who are underage are somehow getting into the bars. When I asked the student how they are doing this when you need a valid ID to get in, ultimately, they share with you that these "valid ID's" are easily obtained. Yes, it is broad, but I have never attacked anyone on this board personally. I have contributed to many a wonderful discussion here and to have this person call me a liar when my character and credibility are beyond reproach was untenable. In short. this person should prove that my "facts" are wrong.

btw...did you find out the room number. I noticed that there were four or five variations on this. Another poster asked that they post the room number on Blogs for Natalee and they did but she forgot to go back to the site and check so they took it away. She then asked them to contact dan to give it to you. Did you receive it?

[scubajap]

VASteve, I agree with you on all points.

How many times have you seen me called a liar here for printing facts that people don't want to hear? Don't let this board rule your life-I agree, b's comment may have generalized, but that is no reason to start screaming "Liar!" at him. People do that at lot here when they disagree, but from what I see of both your posts, you don't diagree-you both basically have the same view about much of the BS people put on this board.
Do I get pissed off when people post rumors? No, I go out and get the facts, if I can. I know for you it is frustrating, because for you it is a war of words, but I am in a position to go and find out what I can-so I do. I can't believe all the nonsense that I found on this board when I first came here, and I have been working to dispell a great deal of it.
Some people will never accept it, because it is not what they want to hear.
How much does that impact on my life? NOT ONE WHIT-ok? there are plenty of people that want those facts, and others that don't.
You think I will lose a moments sleep over those people that call me a liar? who cares? I know the truth, and that is what is important to me, and if I am a voice in the darkness, so be it.
but there are those that do listen, and then there are nuts like this Ringo-whoever that is.
But I still have my wonderful life here in Aruba, so why should I care.
Why should you. Yes it is frustrating at times-so then I go take a walk on the beach, or a swim and appreciate all my blessings, and I am not bothered.
But it isn't worth fighting over something small like that with someone that basically agrees with you-do you think?

[VASteve]

I don't know what keeps you sane, Scubajap, I mean you seem to get blasted all the time. But I sure am glad you persevere. I like reading what you write. I like having someone in Aruba that I trust to be fair and honest.

You sure could be defensive and bitter. Thanks for rising above it.

[Bitsey]

>>It's emotion that seems to rule, not logic and reason....

Too bad. I think the authorities would be closer to a resolution if emotion didn't get in the way of factual and logical investiations.
Posted by: VASteve | Oct 15, 2005 2:11:05 PM<<

Emotion has been the driver from the get-go. Beth proclaimed "kidnapped" rather than "runaway" for good reason.

[b]

hmmm interesting....I came up as "z"...now I gotta run all the virus software again and make sure all the firewalls are in place....