Natalee Holloway: Fox Update And More

Beth Twitty and her aruban attorney, Helen Lejeux were on with Greta Van Sustern this evening. Beth stated that she would be returning to Aruba shortly, though no date was given. Helen Lejeux stated the prosecutors office is telling her that they are continuing the investigation and working hard. That includes reviewing all documents and basically looking at everything new under conditions of less pressure as there isn't currently the level of press attention as before.

When questioned as to her thoughts if the investigation needed more time, Beth responded typically, saying she didn't know, but couldn't understand why the three boys haven't been arrested as a result of Deepak's confession and Joran's statements.

The ever objective journalist, Greta interjected she was unpersuaded any progress was being made. Apparently ALE are still waiting for the tapes from Skeeters. Greta inquired of Lejeux if Natalee could be declared dead so that Beth could file a civil suit against the boys. Lejeux stated that there is a method to have Natalee declared legally dead without a body, however, the prosecutors have not shown her all or any evidence and are telling her that they do not as yet have any proof of the boy's guilt.

Beth expressed concern as to whether ALE had records of statements from the first night in Aruba, particularly as regards specific statements of Joran Van Der Sloot. This, Beth said, should include a statement from a DEA agent present - Erik something, perhaps? I missed the name.

I do have at least something to add here as regards those statements, though I am sure it is hearsay. If you go back and see this post, it is the story of that first night as it was relayed to me in early June. I was contacted by an individual associated with the Alabama side of this equation to set the record straight as regards certain aspects of the trip and the early investigation.

Among other topics, we specifically but very imprecisely discussed Joran Van Der Sloot's statements that evening as relayed from an individual there. During that conversation it was clear to me that Joran made statements indicating some type of sexual activity between he and Natalee. I know that because the individual stated that Joran talked about certain aspects of his time that my source preferred not to go into as there was no need and they were not the type of issue which needed to be discussed in public.

I agreed. However, it is important that I also state for the record that I absolutely believe that while those statements of Joran's may have been of a sexual nature, never was I given any indication, or reason to believe that they suggested any illegal activity. In fact, the statement have been termed "unbelievable" to me precisely because they were alleged to address some form of consensual sex.

In additional conversations with another individual in a position to know, I was also told that Joran claimed, in effect, that Natalee wanted to partake in whatever sexual activity might have been said to have taken place with Joran.

On Fox tonight it appeared as though statements from Americans present that night have been put into the form of affidavits and are being provided to ALE. If those statements claim some form of rape, or sexual assault, it will certainly be news to me and also a big surprise as a result of multiple previous discussions on this very topic with highly credible sources back in June and July.

To be a bit more specific as it now seems this topic is in the news:

The police set about questioning the two boys. They are said to have claimed at that time that the now missing Natalee Holloway did indeed leave Carlos And Charlies with them and the entire group went to the lighthouse area together prior to dropping Natalee back at her hotel. The boys also made additional claims consistent with other earlier reports.

With Natalee's Mother said to have remained in the car, possibly out of the emotion involved in meeting two of the now three boys alleged to have been the last to see her daughter alive, others in the group including the Stepfather were present as the questioning continued for approximately an hour. Certain aspects of the discussion, some said to have involved Joran Van der Sloot's Father, led to the discussion becoming heated and police officers requested that the group disperse. More than one individual among the group of Americans present at the Joran home that night report a belief that the boys were lying and did indeed do something to harm Natalee Holloway.

The first bold section above is the full extent to which I felt it necessary to address the sexual nature of that night's discussion. When I said it was consistent with earlier reports, I believe those reports claimed some type of consensual sexual activity with Natalee. The second part in bold dealt with information I was given as regards an altercation which started between Jug Twitty and Paulus Van Der Sloot when Jug is said to have made a comment as to Paulus being an unfit parent as a result of allowing his son to be out late at night and at a casino. It was only much later that Joran claimed to have sneaked out of the house.

Again, you can read the post mentioned above here.

Comments

[farmgirl]

Is anything happening on this case?

Except I reading a lot of viciousness toward Dan..

What is it with some of these people?

Don't they get it? This is "discussion" dialog..does not have to have outline, doesn't have an agenda other then to ferret out what happend to NH..

Dan's Blog..he can throw out whatever he thiks is appropriate..

His blog consumes hours of his time and much money..

All we have to do is enjoy/read/reply..or not..nothing risked by us either way.

So why the venom? Unless you happen t have an agenda of your own and free riding on this blog?

[kin]

I just read the posts at PT and got my answer. I'm actually surprised a bogus 'porno' tape didn't turn up sooner.

[farmgirl]

Not gapers..just careful..

I wonder if you looked at the "lookers" on those other subjects that you wouldnt' see lots of readers, few posters..

and for good reason..the posts get really nasty..and the ones of us who are concerned..read the editorial and write our congressmen about the concerns..

the others..they don't vote anyway..so why think they would bother to have valid opinions?

and then a lot of peole do not see the threats to our constitution..that's looming.

[Hallie]

Biz, I think Model is a mad monkey and just talking smack. Perhaps the we was the collective angry banana fiends. Medel can't even seem to be able to pick a name and stick with it, so the we might just be multiple personalities.

[Key West]

Model 1873 is Lionhunter.. So she had to double post!! Now if she had something nice to say, that would be good.

[WTF???]

Model 1873 is Lionhunter.. So she had to double post!! Now if she had something nice to say, that would be good.

Posted by: Key West | Oct 14, 2005 12:41:51 PM

Its not good because she doesnt agree with you? Yep, I think so! Losers

[Hallie]

Model 1873 is Lionhunter.. So she had to double post!! Now if she had something nice to say, that would be good.

Posted by: Key West | Oct 14, 2005 12:41:51 PM

Its not good because she doesnt agree with you? Yep, I think so! Losers

Posted by: WTF??? | Oct 14, 2005 12:46:32 PM

It's not good, because she's rude. Are you going through withdrawals not getting berated to click on advertisements every hour? Ok, so Go click on some ads!!! There. Now can you monkeys settle down and read instead of fighting?

[WTF!]

Since Im a monkey, I got a banana for ya

[Sweetie]

Try to cut her some slack. For God's sake, don't let the admitted last known person to see Natalee (and an admitted liar, to police) come off as some kind of scapegoat.
Joran's involved. Proving it is one thing. But knowing it is common sense.
Well put.

[Hallie]

Since Im a monkey, I got a banana for ya

Posted by: WTF! | Oct 14, 2005 12:59:03 PM

I hear a heaping dose of Thorazine helps in schizophrenia and other mood disorders. You might want to check it out.

[WTF!]

I hear a heaping dose of Thorazine helps in schizophrenia and other mood disorders. You might want to check it out.

Posted by: Hallie | Oct 14, 2005 1:12:43 PM

it didnt work, it made me really hungry though...

[VC]

03/10 Jug on nancy grace said Charles Croes is the one who "translated" the comments of joran the first night.

"J. TWITTY: Oh, yeah. And they talk four different languages down there. So first of all, there is one gentleman who, if somebody would go back and get Charles Cruse (ph), who was with us that night and who spoke to them away from us for about 10 minutes with the uniformed officers, before he came over and translated what Joran said to us -- and Joran speaks all the languages too. But Charles Cruse (ph), in my mind, holds a lot of keys to what happened that night, or what Joran said."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html

I think that its odd, if croes is the one who told jug what was said during the time he stepped away from the group, that there really hasnt been any confirmation. Could croes have told the alabama group what they expected to hear, rather than the real translation? and the police the correct statement?

Secondly Dan, your post makes me think that there are no statements ever made of sexual assault and the word "sex" was translated from the dutch "vjreen" (sp) which means everything from kissing to intercourse. He probably said they made out and translated was "sex" since vjreen covers all sexual activity of any type.

just a couple of takes on it

[Hallie]

I hear a heaping dose of Thorazine helps in schizophrenia and other mood disorders. You might want to check it out.

Posted by: Hallie | Oct 14, 2005 1:12:43 PM

it didnt work, it made me really hungry though...

Posted by: WTF! | Oct 14, 2005 1:16:56 PM

Sorry to hear that, but at least you have your banana from your post above to hold over your hunger.

[Key West]

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY FOXFAN CENTRAL

Paul van der Sloot's Changing Story
Thursday, June 30, 2005

PHOTOS VIDEO

Click image to enlarge
ARCHIVE SHOW INFO
•Unsportsmanlike Conduct?
October 13, 2005•Where Is Christie Wilson?
October 12, 2005•Transcript: Former President Bush
October 11, 2005•Taylor Behl's Mother Reacts to Tragic News
October 07, 2005•Former President Bill Clinton, Part 2
October 06, 2005•Rush Limbaugh Reacts to Miers Nomination
October 05, 2005•Transcript: Bill Clinton Goes 'On the Record'
October 05, 2005•Bizarre Kidnapping
October 04, 2005•Frantic Search for Francis Graham
October 03, 2005•A Brother's Search...
September 30, 2005•What Did Dave Holloway's Meeting with the Aruban Prosecutor Accomplish?
September 29, 2005•Jug Twitty Lashes Out at the Prosecutor
September 28, 2005•Joran Breaks his Silence
September 27, 2005•Where Is Taylor Behl?
September 21, 2005•Reaction to President's Katrina Pledge
September 16, 2005•John Roberts in the Hot Seat
September 13, 2005•Katrina Hammers New Orleans Justice System
September 09, 2005•New Orleans' Makeshift Jail
September 08, 2005•Horror at the Convention Center
September 07, 2005•Sen. Clinton Surveys Katrina Aftermath
September 06, 2005•Daring Rescue Missions in New Orleans
August 31, 2005•Inside Hurricane Katrina
August 30, 2005•Kalpoe Brothers Re-Arrested
August 30, 2005•Free and Clear?
August 24, 2005•Aruba Admission
August 23, 2005•Natalee's Mom Responds to Kalpoe Complaint
August 10, 2005•Another American Missing in Aruba
August 09, 2005•Suspects' Lawyers Go 'On the Record'
August 04, 2005•Are Aruban Cops Confident Natalee Will Be Found?
August 03, 2005•Natalee Holloway's Hometown
August 02, 2005•Reward for Natalee Holloway Hits $1 Million
July 26, 2005•'OTR' Exclusive: New Natalee Holloway Video
July 22, 2005•Jungle Jack Hanna
July 21, 2005•Supreme Reaction
July 20, 2005•New Clues in Holloway Case?
July 19, 2005•Jane Seymour Goes 'On the Record'
July 19, 2005•Woodward and Bernstein on 'Deep Throat'
July 13, 2005•Explosive Report in Aruba
July 12, 2005•Florida Braces for Dennis
July 10, 2005•Emergency Response in London
July 08, 2005
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 29, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Stunning new information about Joran van der Sloot's (search) lies. Less than 24 hours after Natalee Holloway (search) disappeared, before he was questioned by police, Joran Van Der Sloot had already made up a story about what happened that night.

Charles Croes spoke with Joran in the early morning hours of May 31. Earlier today, Charles told us about that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Charles, take me back to May 30th, which is several hours after Natalee missed her flight. How did you first get wind of the fact that Beth Holloway Twitty (search) was looking for her daughter?

CHARLES CROES, TALKED TO DUTCH SUSPECT: A major friend of mine called me up. He was working with Natalee's mom to help them find Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why would he call you? What is your occupation that would be a reason he would call you?

ADVERTISEMENTS

C. CROES: Well, I have a sail rental company. And there was apparently a phone call made. And he was calling me betting or hoping that the phone call was made from one of our phones, and so that's why he called me.

VAN SUSTEREN: About what time did he call you?

C. CROES: He called me at 11:30.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say to you?

C. CROES: He told me that he needed my help. And I asked him what it was about. And he told me that it had to do something with a cell phone. And I didn't relate it to anything but work at that point.

And then he said, "There is a possibility that a phone call was made using one of our phones." And I said, "OK." And he said, "It's very, very important." I said, "Fine," and I asked him to go into further details, and he did. And then I made arrangements to go see him.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you got to the gas station, did you talk to Beth?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Beth have any idea at that point, as far as you knew, who her daughter had been seen with or who she had last been known to be with?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did she tell you?

C. CROES: Specifically, she told me that her daughter went to Carlos and Charlie's, and that, while there, she had met up with a young guy and asked him to take her home, and that she got into a small silver or gray car that had a large exhaust on the back and tinted windows, and had left.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she have names for any of these people or just that description?

C. CROES: She had a description of the car and she had a description of one tall Dutch guy. And at that time, she said, with darkish hair.

VAN SUSTEREN: During the time that you were talking to Beth at the gas station, did the discussion of that phone call come up again?

C. CROES: Yes, it did.

VAN SUSTEREN: After you and Beth listened to that phone call several times and hung up with the person in the states, what did you do next?

C. CROES: After that, we spoke a while. And then we left that location with the intention of going to the Holiday Inn to continue meeting. On the way there, a young man and I were sitting in my car. And on the way there, instinctively, I wanted to go to drive off, pull over to the cabana area, just to look to see if perhaps she was there.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then where did you go?

C. CROES: Then we continued on track over to the Holiday Inn. And we were supposed to turn over to go into the Holiday Inn. And I had made a decision not to and went straight ahead. And going straight ahead, I made another decision to go to the beach area.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got there?

C. CROES: When I got there, there were three cars there. One was pulling out. It was a black car. There was another car parked there. And there was a car with kids in it. And I made the decision to talk to the kids. I got out of the car and, in talking to the kids, and describing what had happened, and explained to them why it is I was approaching them at this hour of the night and asking these questions.

I then described Joran. At this point, I wasn't sure about his name. And they asked me what kind of car he drove. And I wasn't sure. And I said, "But we do know that he was in a silver or gray metallic car, small car with a large exhaust." One of the guys says, "Oh, that's Joran."

I then spoke to him, and I said, "Would you kindly lead us to his home? Do you know where he lives?" And he said, "Sure." And he got in our car. And we went over to the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you drove over to the Van der Sloot home. And any idea about what time you arrived there?

C. CROES: Close to 3:00.

VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to that time when you went to the house, had you ever heard of the Van der Sloots or had you ever been to their house before?

C. CROES: Never.

VAN SUSTEREN: So then what happened next?

C. CROES: What happened next was that, in the interim of doing that, we had notified the family that we had found a house. Then they asked us to meet them at the police station. So we went back over to the police station.

VAN SUSTEREN: About how far is the police station from the Van der Sloot house?

C. CROES: Actually very close.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did do you next? What time did you leave the police station about?

C. CROES: Some time between 2:40, 2:30, 2:45… at that time.

VAN SUSTEREN: A.M.?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And where did you go?

C. CROES: Right to the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who went?

C. CROES: All of the people that were there, myself included.

VAN SUSTEREN: Meaning Beth and her husband, the police… were there some other friends from the United States with them?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the house?

C. CROES: When we got to the house, the police asked us to stay back. And they went to the front door, or the entrance. And they beeped the horn. No one responded. And they then did their police siren kind of thing. And no one responded. They did it several times, and then finally Mr. Van der Sloot came out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear what he said?

C. CROES: I heard bits of the conversation but not the whole conversation, because I was still back.

VAN SUSTEREN: What bits did you hear?

C. CROES: I heard bits that he didn't know where his son was. I heard bits that referred to him having picked up his son at a McDonald's, those kind of things. There was nothing that was tied together, just little bits of conversation that were coming out.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did you then do next?

C. CROES: We went to the Wyndham Hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you go to the Wyndham?

C. CROES: There was a feeling that Joran may be there playing poker.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Paul Van der Sloot go with this entourage to the Wyndham Hotel?

C. CROES: Yes, he did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who did he travel with?

C. CROES: I believe he went with the police.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the Wyndham? What did you do?

C. CROES: We went up to the casino area, and it was closing down, talking to some people. And they mentioned that they thought they had seen them there. They thought they had seen Natalee there, but there was no level of certainty.

VAN SUSTEREN: After all of you were at the Wyndham, and you learned that Joran was not there, what was the next thing that happened?

C. CROES: We then went back over to the Van der Sloots' house.

VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to arriving at the Van der Sloot's house, did you hear Paul Van der Sloot say anything at all about Natalee, about the disappearance, or any information? Did he seem to know anything at all about the disappearance?

C. CROES: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Much more of our interview with Charles Croes is coming up in just a moment. He's going to tell us what happened when they got back to the Van Der Sloot house that night, or that morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Earlier today, we spoke with Charles Croes, one of the first people to speak with Joran Van der Sloot after Natalee Holloway disappeared. Charles told us that the night after Natalee vanished, he, Natalee's family, and Paul Van der Sloot went searching for Joran at the casino but they didn't find him. I asked him what happened when they returned to the Van der Sloot house in the very early morning hours of May 31st.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

C. CROES: When we got back, all of us got back to the Van der Sloot home, Joran was there, as well as the father, of course. And then Joran came out, spoke to the police.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you first saw Joran and his father, where were there and where were you?

C. CROES: They were standing by the gate area. And I was arriving in the car I was driving, and I saw them. And then I parked the car, and got out, and walked over to the side.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tell me next what you heard, what you saw.

C. CROES: I heard that there was some questioning going back and forth. And I heard the father several times say, "You know, is there anything we can do? You know, we're here to help." I heard Joran say, you know, "I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help."

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear Joran tell what happened that night, the last he'd seen of Natalee? What did he say?

C. CROES: Yes, I did hear him. And what he said was that they picked him up — or Natalee got into the car with them.

VAN SUSTEREN: At what time?

C. CROES: I'm not sure that he gave me the time. I have heard since then that it was 11:00ish or so.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say whether he knew Natalee from any earlier experience?

C. CROES: Yes, he did.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say?

C. CROES: He said that he had been gambling and that he met Natalee. And Natalee told him that she had lost some money and was trying to recuperate it before she went home. And he apparently was a good poker player, or blackjack player, whatever it is, and that he helped her recoup some of her monies, and gave it back to her. And she then considered him her lucky charm.

VAN SUSTEREN: When does the story pick up again? When does he next see her, that you know?

C. CROES: Well, he next told me that he was at Carlos and Charlie's, and that they were dancing. And then that she asked for a ride home.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you give me the details, every single word exactly how he said it, that you recall?

C. CROES: That I recall, in the details was that he told me that she was coming on to him, and dancing provocatively, and then she said she wanted to have him take her home. He then agreed to that. And they went out, I guess, and they got in the car. She got in the car, and they drove off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was there any sexual discussion at all?

C. CROES: Yes, there was.

VAN SUSTEREN: What was your observation of his demeanor at the time he was telling you these things?

C. CROES: Very uncomfortable young guy, very, very nervous, very uncomfortable.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he describe whether or not she seemed to have had too much to drink or anything that night?

C. CROES: Yes, he did. He told me that she had been doing drugs and possibly been drinking, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he indicate whether he was doing drugs or drinking?

C. CROES: He said that he had been drinking.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say how much he'd been drinking?

C. CROES: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did Joran say happened to Natalee? I mean, at some point, the story continues.

C. CROES: Yes. He then said that they made a decision — that they were driving around. They made a decision to take her to the lighthouse to show her the lighthouse. They went up to the lighthouse, were there for a little while.

And then she was acting so crazy that he just wanted to take her home, back to the hotel. And that he took her to the hotel, pulled into the front, and opened the door, and that she got out. And when she got out, she tripped and fell.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then what?

C. CROES: And then got up, continued to walk into the Holiday Inn hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: And is that where he said he last saw her?

C. CROES: That's exactly what he said.

VAN SUSTEREN: It's about 5 o'clock in the morning on Tuesday, May 31st. She missed her flight on Monday, the 30th, midday.

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: There's been absolutely no news, no newspaper cycle, to indicate that Natalee Holloway is missing, right, at that point?

C. CROES: OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: So somehow Joran decided to come up with this lie about the Holiday Inn, assuming that's a lie, and I guess that's pretty much been accepted as a lie?

C. CROES: All right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything that he told you or he said that would suggest that he had any sort of inkling that she was missing and there was some foul play?

C. CROES: No. What he said to me — he repeated to me over and over again was his desire to help find her, that if there's anything he could do to help find her, he would, just please ask him, that kind of thing. It was a very — at that point, it was a scared young guy who seemed to be wanting to help.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html

[bizman]

Lawbster,
Of course a porno site is where a porno tape would be found.Where else would a person find one?You do recall all of the porn people that Beth Twitty ranted and raved about for so long,well it looks like she may have been right.

For all of the Monkeys out there.>>>WARNING<<<

There is serious debate that engages on this site.A site of open minds with the ability to think outside of the box.

For any Monkeys who choose to visit this site you will be confronted with a daily dose of REALITY.This site is not for the weak minded that is only capable of box thought.All opinions are allowed here not just those of the site owner.No moderators are needed,only freethinkers who can think for themselves.

You Monkeys will be tolerated if for no other reason than to educate you to the realities of the Holloway case and subjects beyond.

In no time at all each and everyone of you Monkeys will be referring yourselves as ex-Monkeys.

[Hallie]

At the very least, any Aruban cannot be fair and impartial to this just due to a sense of patriotism (which is certainly expected).

Chuck Geiss from Black & White Birmingham once told me that 'eyes are everywhere' on Aruba. Everybody knows everybody's business, and everybody watches everybody all the time. If one domino goes down, they all do, so they all make sure that nobody falls...

Posted by: lionhunter | Oct 14, 2005 2:31:30 PM

Fair and impartial? Well, how is Beth considered fair and impartial when she calls for a boycott of an entire island?

[thelurkmeister]

I get it. Personally prefer the 1886 ;-)

[sol rosenberg]

Wow...is that really Natalee in the video link above? Can anyone verify that? It's really not relevant to the case, but it does paint quite a different picture of NH.

Dan - what are your thoughts?

- Sol

[grady white]

Sol - I just think you enjoyed a few minutes of free Internet porn. That wasn't Joran or Natalee.

Lionhunter - on Model 1873 - Colt or Winchester?

[Donna]

For 2 months now, we have heard Beth state that she is going back to Aruba...."soon", "next week" ,"in a few days". What is keeping her from going back there? Is she that afraid she has really burned the bridges there, and won't be accepted with open arms? Or that she may have to PAY for her plane/hotel/food/car there this time. No more freebies? Come on Beth, dig in that bank account!! After all isn't what those donations/fundraisers were for? Was to help search/get answers to where Natalee is?

[Grady White]

Donna - why do you care when she goes or how she pays for it? Why don't you try being in her shoes for one day and feel the pain of losing a daughter and having no answers.

[Key West]

fin-Lionhunter, you have filled us shocked RWV people with the News of
Scubajap- Julia Renfro !! You have warned Dave and Beth of our Dangers.. how do you find the time to save Tibet ,too ??

[MikefrMd]

the link the video:

Come on folks how can anyone with half a noodle really think this is Natalee....Looks nothing like her to me and the Jughead with her certainly is Joran...remember he didn't cut his hair until after he got locked up.

Anyone posting something like this is lower then Whale shit...must have come form that special committee down in Aruba.

[MikefrMd]

Its getting sad around here now....were down to useing the National Enquirer and Shooshtime as source for info...Pathetic

[Arubaanse]

the word "sex" was translated from the dutch "vjreen" (sp) which means everything from kissing to intercourse

LOL

It's "vrijen".

[Julia]

JULIA RENFRO is NOT ScubaJap!