I first dealt with the issue of cell phone calls here. One thing that troubled me was hearing that a female friend of Natalee's thought she had missed a call from Natalee's cell phone in the late hours of the night she disappeared. I dismissed that as possibly having originated from the chaperone who used Natalee's phone the next day to call her friends for more information.
For the first time today I have been given information which suggests Natalee Holloway actually had her cell phone with her the night she was at Carlos and Charlies. Yet, Beth Twitty is said to have found her cell phone in her room. I presume the chaperone returned it there - which seems a bit strange, perhaps - but likely not significant. Still, it is significant that she had her phone with her that night and some investigators are said to now believe she actually return to her room that night after having been at Carlos and Charlies.
That might also explain why the DNA was thought to be a significant find. But, that DNA - though obtained through a faulty process - was tested and didn't match any of the three suspects. Hmmm. This thing is getting more and more strange everyday - and I didn't think that was possible.
Damn!
I read here somewhere, today, that it would be pretty dang scary to have some of you sit on a jury, and I totally agree. There is very little objectivity in the Bethites' cultish scenario. I just can't see why? Do you identify so empathetic-ally with Beth, that you are emotionally involved in this story? Granted, as a parent of daughters close to Natalee in age, my heart breaks for her family. But something is not quite right in that whole Twitty, MountainBrook, story. No reaction of Beth's and Jugs appears to be typical, other than natural grief. We can begin with Beth's belief that Natalee had been kidnapped, her driving 100 mph and then being able to jump on a plane with a handpicked posse and fly to Aruba and demand answers. That is no way typical anything. It is Hollywood.
Bethites: You are being jerked around like marionettes by the Twitty's, Jossy Mansur, and the MSM. Setting all empathy aside, that really pisses me off.
Posted by: DrTar&ProFeather | Oct 13, 2005 6:38:45 PM
The media has a powerful effect. Remember the "War of the Worlds" broadcast with Orsen Welles? When you've got CNN broadcasting all night long about a confession and Joran leading the family to the body, that leaves a lasting impression. No matter that the story was retracted. Then you have Fox dishing out hoax after hoax on this case, deamonizing the suspects. It's a wonder that anybody thinks they're innocent.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 06:49 PM
b? " I could understand the cameras but I could never understand confiscating the cell phones. I think now, we have our answer."
I must be thick...what do you mean?
Posted by: truthwillout | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 06:49 PM
I must say after reading some of the comments on here that i was quite disturbed, i didnt really follow up on this story since nothing is getting solved.. anytime soon anyways.. but some people posted that natalie is a ho and a whore? This young lady is probably not alive, so have some fucking respect. I dont care how slutty a girl acts, and im not even saying she was acting that way at all, because i wasnt there, but someone has stated she was acting slutty, back to my point, i dont care how a female acts in a bar, a bar is to drink and shake your ass and have fun. NO ONE deserves to be kidnapped and killed. NO ONE. And to all the disrespectful punk kids on here who wants to call her names, can kiss my ass and kiss everyone else's ass too. Show some fucking respect for her and the family.
Posted by: erica | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 06:53 PM
OK...everyone is talking about Beth Twitty playing everyone like a fiddle...personally I think you're all full of sh**. If that's the case...maybe there was never even a NATLEE at all. Maybe this whole thing has been bogus and Beth Twitty just wanted to become a movie star. Come on people get a life. This womans daughter has been missing for 4 1/2 months...with no trace of her what so ever...why don't all of you naysayers tell me just what you would do and how you would react if it was your child that was missing. Get off of this womans back..she is brokenhearted and grieving..and I am sure that as botched as this whole investigation has been.. she is grasping for whatever straws she can find...anything that would lead to her daughter being found...dead or alive. As they say..don't criticise someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes...something none of us have done. "Don't judge, lest ye shall also be judged"
Posted by: Jackpot | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 06:55 PM
Posted by: erica | Oct 13, 2005 6:53:29 PM
When you finish smoking your crack, why don't you substantiate your allegations. You are a "hit and run" poster. Who sent you? Are you supposed to turn the conversation away from the truth? Truth is kinda funny,
once it starts flowing it doesn't give up until it runs dry. So, come on
prove to me that all that was said...
Posted by: b | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:01 PM
someone, please enlighten me!
b? " I could understand the cameras but I could never understand confiscating the cell phones. I think now, we have our answer."
I must be thick...what do you mean?
Posted by: truthwillout | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:02 PM
I must say after reading some of the comments on here that i was quite disturbed, i didnt really follow up on this story since nothing is getting solved.. anytime soon anyways.. but some people posted that natalie is a ho and a whore? This young lady is probably not alive, so have some fucking respect. I dont care how slutty a girl acts, and im not even saying she was acting that way at all, because i wasnt there, but someone has stated she was acting slutty, back to my point, i dont care how a female acts in a bar, a bar is to drink and shake your ass and have fun. NO ONE deserves to be kidnapped and killed. NO ONE. And to all the disrespectful punk kids on here who wants to call her names, can kiss my ass and kiss everyone else's ass too. Show some fucking respect for her and the family.
Posted by: erica | Oct 13, 2005 6:53:29 PM
erica sweetheart,
The problem with you and posters like you is that you believe that Natalee was kidnapped and murdered without 1 shred of evidence to support that belief. Can't you "get it" that if the media is feeding you false information, then all of you assumptions about what happened are false. That's why all of this ridiculous "body searching" has led nowhere. Only the truth will lead to real answers. And truth may be that Natalee was a restless teen that simply ranaway from an unhappy home life.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:04 PM
Cell phones are completely traceable. The only time you would not use your cell phone is if you didn't want anyone to know where you were calling. I could understand the cameras but I could never understand confiscating the cell phones. I think now, we have our answer.
Posted by: b | Oct 13, 2005 6:47:23 PM
Posted by: b | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:04 PM
> someone, please enlighten me!
> b? " I could understand the cameras but I could never understand confiscating the cell phones. I think now, we have our answer."
> I must be thick...what do you mean?
That the Twittys intentionally withheld evidence.
Posted by: George | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:04 PM
OK...everyone is talking about Beth Twitty playing everyone like a fiddle...personally I think you're all full of sh**. If that's the case...maybe there was never even a NATLEE at all. Maybe this whole thing has been bogus and Beth Twitty just wanted to become a movie star. Come on people get a life. This womans daughter has been missing for 4 1/2 months...with no trace of her what so ever...why don't all of you naysayers tell me just what you would do and how you would react if it was your child that was missing. Get off of this womans back..she is brokenhearted and grieving..and I am sure that as botched as this whole investigation has been.. she is grasping for whatever straws she can find...anything that would lead to her daughter being found...dead or alive. As they say..don't criticise someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes...something none of us have done. "Don't judge, lest ye shall also be judged"
Posted by: Jackpot | Oct 13, 2005 6:55:19 PM
I guess it was OK to judge Joran and the Kalpoes with no evidence though wasnt it?
Beth: "I immediately wanted to establish Natalee's character so the DEA agent wouldn't think that Natalee was a runaway"
There's your answer right there. Natalee ran away and the rest is a big Twitty PR smokescreen.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:08 PM
Lots of SM-invaders.
Posted by: roy | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:09 PM
Didn't we already know she had two cell phones? One rental and one her regular phone. Lots of people do that when they travel. I do.
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:11 PM
Wouldn't call myself an "SM Invader". Have always posted on both sites.
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:12 PM
Way to go Dan- you keep coming up with some great info - keep it coming!!
Posted by: Jan | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:12 PM
Paulo, the connection to Charles Croes is not just because he is the cell phone guy. He was already a friend of acquaintance of a friend of Jug's. Also, if you travel internationally, you know how untrustworthy cell phones can be. In fact, I finally gave up and got one in the country I travel to the most to be sure I would have one that works. Ahem, that is no doubt what happened to NH - not lack of desire to use her phone!!
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:16 PM
Wouldn't call myself an "SM Invader". Have always posted on both sites.
Posted by: kristin | Oct 13, 2005 7:12:09 PM
I was not refering to you.
Posted by: roy | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:16 PM
NO ONE deserves to be kidnapped and killed. NO ONE.
Posted by: erica | Oct 13, 2005 6:53:29 PM
This type of thinking is exactly why the Twitty PR machine has left the kidnapping/rape/murder scenario out there. To get idiots to buy into it, generate sympathy and cash donations. It worked. While you don't see the Twitty's themselves out searching for a dead body. They limit they're searches to brothels and crack houses where Natalee was reportedly sighted. What do they know that everyone else doesn't?
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:20 PM
letsbefair, why would you possibly believe they are doing this for profit? That is just twisted.
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:21 PM
BTW, good to see you Hat.
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:22 PM
The Twitties NEVER wanted that call to be looked at closely because if it was from Natalee, it would let Joran off the hook because it was made at 4AM Aruba time.
Anything that Beth says is not relevant is probably VERY relevant.
Beth was using this phone call as the accusation of the monkey screech at the vdS residence. It was dropped like a hot potato when the timeline would tend to indicate innocence on the part of Joran...and perhaps Deepak.
Interestingly, there were early reports of room changes and that the Brookies stayed up all night around the pool. I am wondering if Natalee's beach front room at the HI was really Natalee's room.
Of course, Beth contaminated much evidence by going through Natalee's luggage rather than handing it all over to LE.
Posted by: newswatcher | Oct 13, 2005 5:04:34 PM
amen and amen again to that
Posted by: truthbetold | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:24 PM
letsbefair, why would you possibly believe they are doing this for profit? That is just twisted.
Posted by: kristin | Oct 13, 2005 7:21:43 PM
letsbefair is not alone on his or her thoughts...alot of us think they did this for a reason
Posted by: truthbetold | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:26 PM
I see that the same people that fall in love with serial killers are the same type that find Joran and the Kalpoes as cool pimps.. I believe talk is cheap and I believe that the same people will continue to goto Aruba because they would feel at home in Bogota Columbia for the same reason that they don’t want anything to change in Aruba.. So in a couple of years all the timeshares and properties will be pretty cheap since no one with a family will be going to visit Aruba. So all those that believe in their pimps will have exactly what they want. I am sorry for Beth and family but they know as most people here in the US that Aruba will die a painful and short death once the income stops and the undesirables start to come to their beloved island. I believe that by next year you will know that you picked the wrong side of justice. The scary part is that there are so many on the wrong side of good and evil..
Posted by: normanbates | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:29 PM
letsbefair, why would you possibly believe they are doing this for profit? That is just twisted.
Posted by: kristin | Oct 13, 2005 7:21:43 PM
I don't think profit was the initial motive of the Twittys, just a curious side effect. They need money for search efforts and for the reward.
I do think profit is the ONLY motive of the media and the various snake oil salesmen (like Dr. Phill) that have joined the party.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:29 PM
Truthbetold, what would the reason be?
Posted by: kristin | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:30 PM
> > NO ONE deserves to be kidnapped and killed.
>Posted by: erica | Oct 13, 2005 6:53:29 PM
> This type of thinking is exactly why the Twitty PR machine has left the kidnapping/rape/murder scenario out there.
Actually, this Erica's statement is quite correct, and I'm sure most people agree with it. And in no way does this prevent to discuss a behavior of a victim or a missing person as long as it is pertinent to what's happened. What really characteristical for those hysterically demanding not to discuss someone's behavior is very THEIR believe that some (sluts, Dutch, or whoever else they hate) deserve to be killed.
Of course, I don't apply above to the Twittys themselves as long as they are, in my opinion, mere pulling a scam; and whatever they say don't reflect their true beliefs.
Posted by: George | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:31 PM
Since the room and luggage were not under constant supervision, is it possible that someone put that phone there on purpose? Perhaps knowing that she has used it? Perhaps they planted that dna on the toothbrush that was left in her room? How far would someone go to cover up a murder?
Posted by: iwabwu | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:31 PM
In fact, I finally gave up and got one in the country I travel to the most to be sure I would have one that works. Ahem, that is no doubt what happened to NH - not lack of desire to use her phone!!
Posted by: kristin | Oct 13, 2005 7:16:26 PM
Oh ok, I was wondering does your sim card (for phonebook reference) work on your regular phone when you are international. I gues I'm wondering if the statement about the chaperone actually "using" Natalee's phone to contact friends could mean that the chaperone used Natalee's "phonebook" from her phone, not the actual phone itself. That way the chaperone could have actually called Natalee's friends by using a different phone that had international service. I'm just really curious about this, obviously I don't travel much!
Posted by: usmcmom | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:31 PM
I never engaged in fawning over those that claimed special knowledge, some did...their choice. Always thought a large portion of web postings were by mischevious children. If bored cat ladies want to send them cookie recipes or whatever, I do not care.
Posted by: Hat | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:32 PM
Beth keeps talking about 4am as the time Paulus picked up Joran. I'll bet the call was made after Joran went online at 3:00am, and it was Natalee from the beach.
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 4:52:30 PM
Lots of things are possible. It's possible that Joran's younger brother was on-line at his home. Perhaps his father was on-line at his home. Perhaps a visitor that is yet unknown to the investigation. If someone can slip out unknown to his family, is it possible that someone can slip into a house undetected?
Natalee could also have been in the apartment at that time. Hence, what I believe some suspect are monkey noises.
I wonder if the apartment is on the side of the property that borders the neighbors home--the one with the monkey & cage?
Posted by: iwabwu | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:34 PM
Imagine:
You are on vacation with your cousin and the morning you are to leave, she doesn't show up for the flight. You are from a family that can afford to change flights, but still choose, or are told, to come home as scheduled, even though you would probably have some of the best knowledge of where and with whom she might have gone while she was on vacation.
This is one of the questions that troubles me.
I can't imagine why they would have returned home, when immediate family, via private jet would be on the ground within hours.
Posted by: pathenry | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:37 PM
Where on Gods earth do you come up with this stuff? Why would a blogger get information no one has? Before posting these things, why not verify first? Check with the phone company's. There are all kinds of services you can search these records with, of course you'd have to pay about 80.00 and can get any cell phones listed calls for a specific time. Ever heard of tracking a cheating husband? It can be done.
Again your just posting your thoughts and expecting those who read here to believe it.
Shame on you.
Posted by: Jami | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:37 PM
Truthbetold, what would the reason be?
Posted by: kristin | Oct 13, 2005 7:30:14 PM
I think the Twitty's actions are to put up a smokescreen. They don't want anyone to know that Natalee was not happy at home and simply ran away. They have turned this into an international murder/cover-up to warrant media attention.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:39 PM
I think the Twitty's actions are to put up a smokescreen. They don't want anyone to know that Natalee was not happy at home and simply ran away. They have turned this into an international murder/cover-up to warrant media attention.
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:39:38 PM
Right. And she hired Joran and the K2 brothers to take her to a boat, lie for her and take the heat and go to jail, never revealing her whereabouts. Wow, their cover is good, calling her a slut to throw anyone off the trail and not let anyone see they really care for her so much, this almost stranger, that they will go through all that just so her family never knows they helped her run away. Get real. Cripes, that remark was the best laugh I had in days on this site, it is that ludicrous.
Posted by: DarcyD | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:44 PM
iwabwu...you have been watching too much tv.
Posted by: DrTar&ProFeather | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:45 PM
What are the possibilities given Dan's new posting?
1) NH may have returned to her room after CnC and left her US cell phone there.
2) Why take one cell to CnC, return to your room and exchange it for a rented one? And---authorities must easily know whether or not she rented a cell in Aruba.
3) Were the "missed" messages or calls from NH's cell, a rented cell, or someone else's cell? Why wasn't that information reported and wouldn't it be incredibly revealing?
4) Answers to the questions above don't seem in and of themselves incriminating, unless the messages could be understood and tracked.
5) Why then would BTH family keep withhold this info?
Posted by: truthwillout | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:46 PM
Right. And she hired Joran and the K2 brothers to take her to a boat, lie for her and take the heat and go to jail, never revealing her whereabouts. Wow, their cover is good, calling her a slut to throw anyone off the trail and not let anyone see they really care for her so much, this almost stranger, that they will go through all that just so her family never knows they helped her run away. Get real. Cripes, that remark was the best laugh I had in days on this site, it is that ludicrous.
Posted by: DarcyD | Oct 13, 2005 7:44:12 PM
Not quite as ludicrous as a murder without a corpse. Or searching through a landfill because of what a 30 yr crackhead thought he saw. Why don't you get real and grow some brains? Joran said that she ranaway with someone else she met earlier in the week. There are 100,000 other people on the island, or did you forget that?
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:56 PM
This is incredible news. When I was posting a few days back that I wished we (or someone in LE) had access to the pictures from the last night, this is exactly the kind of thing that one could see, whether she had a phone. Not to say it was hers in a picture, but it could help substantiate someone's recollections.
It sure makes me wish more was done to look beyond the classic suspects. If she was in her room after C&C's that would be so very interesting. And could lead to the truth.
I want the truth and I can handle it.
Posted by: VASteve | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:57 PM
letsbefair - I've never been so excited for you. You are on a roll. Nice job!
Posted by: VASteve | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:58 PM
All the politicians who jumped early on the Holloway bandwagon have fallen eerily silent. Methinks the FBI has clued them in that there is another, more believable explanation to Natalee's disappearance.
Posted by: Bitsey | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 07:59 PM
Nice postulation Bitsey. Excellent analysis.
Posted by: VASteve | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:00 PM
LBF - by the way I love the 30 year crackhead comment. Did you see that guy? Sheesh.
Posted by: VASteve | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:01 PM
This is incredible news. When I was posting a few days back that I wished we (or someone in LE) had access to the pictures from the last night, this is exactly the kind of thing that one could see, whether she had a phone. Not to say it was hers in a picture, but it could help substantiate someone's recollections.
It sure makes me wish more was done to look beyond the classic suspects. If she was in her room after C&C's that would be so very interesting. And could lead to the truth.
I want the truth and I can handle it.
Posted by: VASteve | Oct 13, 2005 7:57:42 PM
Yes, good thinking. A picture tells a thousand words.
Posted by: letsbefair | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:03 PM
LOL Dan you get more humorous everytime you write something! The issue about her coming back to room has long been debated and ruled out. First thing is her room did open onto the beach. However, you can NOT enter from the outside only exit. Unless someone is in the room and lets you in. Second, the whole phone call issue. OMG what secret "source" do you have now. LOL! I bet they don't want to come forward because ah lets see they might get refused service at the local Denny's!
Oh and OF course BETH wants to just hang Joran and the other two. Regardless if they are guilty or not because she knows that even if they are NOT guilty that will help her find Natalee or what happened to her. That makes perfect sense.. Because secertly she really doesnt care if they find Natalee and she only wants to be on National TV and the Dr. Phil show! Damn why didn't I see this all before. Thanks Dan for making this all so clear!
Once again Dan you have NO FACTS and nothing but some story someone told you that they think MIGHT be the case yet you CONTINUE put this Crap out there as though it is fact. And you bitch about MSM!
Dan your writings of late you have seriously lost it! Why not tell the truth that your pissed off because you are no longer part of the inner circle. So as you have in the past you have gone on a slam feast!
Posted by: JT | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:04 PM
Hey LBF and VASteve, Bigfish, and others. Maybe we should compile a list of pertinent questions that we think need to be asked of BHT next time she is on someone's show. Like, what photos are on Natalee's camera?
Posted by: DrTar&ProFeather | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:06 PM
> All the politicians who jumped early on the Holloway bandwagon have fallen eerily silent.
> Methinks the FBI has clued them in that there is another, more believable explanation to Natalee's disappearance.
One that caused FBI to refuse putting NH on the http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/kidnap/kidmiss.htm list (Bethist excuse of foreign jurisdiction doesn't hold water - http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/kidnap/lobdell.htm ).
Posted by: George | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:07 PM
Some of you people are pathetic! There is absolutely no way anyone should trash a mom who has lost her daughter! Do some of you even have a clue about the value of a human life? A parent is entitled to do whatever possible, within the law, to find their child. Some of you people need to get a clue! The number of morons on this forum is alarming!
Posted by: calrep | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:08 PM
a friend of Natalee thought she missed a call late that night. It was from Natalee's phone it doesn't mean Natalee made the call. Talk to the roomates.
Posted by: JW | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:09 PM
Look, the phone companies (cell or landline) KNOW who's phone is calling who, when, and from where. The fact that the Twittys had Croes listen to that call over and over leads me to believe it was from Natalee. The details did not come out because that interview was heavily edited. My conclusion is that the Twittys know Natalee made some calls, but it doesn't fit in with the timeline. It doesn't make Joran look guilty, or they would be broadcasting the details all over the media. Probably has to do with the time. Beth keeps talking about 4am as the time Paulus picked up Joran. I'll bet the call was made after Joran went online at 3:00am, and it was Natalee from the beach.
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 4:52:30 PM
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:20:27 PM
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:56:49 PM
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:39:38 PM
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:29:26 PM
wow!!!
you are on a roll!! Just keep these monkeys away
Posted by: c | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:16 PM
Not quite as ludicrous as a murder without a corpse. Or searching through a landfill because of what a 30 yr crackhead thought he saw. Why don't you get real and grow some brains? Joran said that she ranaway with someone else she met earlier in the week. There are 100,000 other people on the island, or did you forget that?
Posted by: letsbefair | Oct 13, 2005 7:56:49 PM
Just when did Joran say that? You mean he knows that and signed such a statement? Hip, hip, hooray. Did he watch her leave and tell authorities who she ran away with? He's just covering for her. Got me laughing again. But he just happened to be with her the very same night she ran away, gee, what a sad COINCIDENCE for him. She just thought she'd spend some time with J & K2 before running away with her real love, one last fling. Hee, hee. Grow a brain, you say? Good one. Kind of like the common quickly thrown out "grow up" when no other response comes to mind. My brain is fine honey but insult it all you want.
Posted by: DarcyD | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:18 PM
The number of morons on this forum is alarming!
Posted by: calrep | Oct 13, 2005 8:08:06 PM
true ang grew after the implosion at SM.
guess you also wanted to add to the number.
Posted by: roy | Thursday, October 13, 2005 at 08:23 PM