Natalee Holloway: Troubling Details

I first dealt with the issue of cell phone calls here. One thing that troubled me was hearing that a female friend of Natalee's thought she had missed a call from Natalee's cell phone in the late hours of the night she disappeared. I dismissed that as possibly having originated from the chaperone who used Natalee's phone the next day to call her friends for more information.

For the first time today I have been given information which suggests Natalee Holloway actually had her cell phone with her the night she was at Carlos and Charlies. Yet, Beth Twitty is said to have found her cell phone in her room. I presume the chaperone returned it there - which seems a bit strange, perhaps - but likely not significant. Still, it is significant that she had her phone with her that night and some investigators are said to now believe she actually return to her room that night after having been at Carlos and Charlies.

That might also explain why the DNA was thought to be a significant find. But, that DNA - though obtained through a faulty process - was tested and didn't match any of the three suspects. Hmmm. This thing is getting more and more strange everyday - and I didn't think that was possible.

Damn!

Comments

[Lanier]

I thought it was because her real US cell phone ended up not working in Aruba, so she rented a phone while there. Maybe the real phone was in her room and the rented phone was with her.

[Sharon]

COMMENT: COME ON DAN...you know that the authorities already checked this phone "theory" out months ago...STOP with your BOGUS lets
get the crowds stoked up again theory...We are on to you and your game playing !! Ciao,

[sensible]

I thought it was because her real US cell phone ended up not working in Aruba, so she rented a phone while there. Maybe the real phone was in her room and the rented phone was with her.

Posted by: Lanier | Oct 13, 2005 4:43:18 PM

Supposedly the rental phones were turned in on Sunday.

[Sweetie]

So if she came back to the home, easy enough, who was her roommate? Did she know? Was her bed unmade, or slept in? Documents would show when the phone was rented and when it came back, easy enough also. I don't get it.

[letsbefair]

Look, the phone companies (cell or landline) KNOW who's phone is calling who, when, and from where. The fact that the Twittys had Croes listen to that call over and over leads me to believe it was from Natalee. The details did not come out because that interview was heavily edited. My conclusion is that the Twittys know Natalee made some calls, but it doesn't fit in with the timeline. It doesn't make Joran look guilty, or they would be broadcasting the details all over the media. Probably has to do with the time. Beth keeps talking about 4am as the time Paulus picked up Joran. I'll bet the call was made after Joran went online at 3:00am, and it was Natalee from the beach.

[bmt]

but the toothbrush was touched by Jug. No, wait, it is not Natalee's toothbrush.

[JRN]

Dan,

Where did you get this new information from? It would help to name a source if you want people to believe this.

I'm guessing it came from one of the MB kids? And if so, why would a MB kid wait this long to tell you that Natalee had her cell phone with her at CnC's that night?

[newswatcher]

The Twitties NEVER wanted that call to be looked at closely because if it was from Natalee, it would let Joran off the hook because it was made at 4AM Aruba time.

Anything that Beth says is not relevant is probably VERY relevant.

Beth was using this phone call as the accusation of the monkey screech at the vdS residence. It was dropped like a hot potato when the timeline would tend to indicate innocence on the part of Joran...and perhaps Deepak.

Interestingly, there were early reports of room changes and that the Brookies stayed up all night around the pool. I am wondering if Natalee's beach front room at the HI was really Natalee's room.

Of course, Beth contaminated much evidence by going through Natalee's luggage rather than handing it all over to LE.

[newswatcher]

Dan,

Where did you get this new information from? It would help to name a source if you want people to believe this.

I'm guessing it came from one of the MB kids? And if so, why would a MB kid wait this long to tell you that Natalee had her cell phone with her at CnC's that night?

Posted by: JRN | Oct 13, 2005 5:00:45 PM

See the Charles Croes interview with Greta for starters. Also Beth had concerns of monkey screech heard in background of call.

[truthinplainsight]

If there was a recording, I bet it is after Deepak picked her up at the Beach and told her that he was taking her back to be with JVS. Once they got there, she didn't see JVS or anyone she knew. Thus she got scared and made the calls.

TIPS

[gagal_05]

Of course, Beth contaminated much evidence by going through Natalee's luggage rather than handing it all over to LE.

Posted by: newswatcher | Oct 13, 2005 5:04:34 PM

Huge mistake, but then that was only the beginning of her mistakes. JMO

[bmt]

a beachfront room with a sliding glass door is not a very secure room at all. even if locked, it can be broken into easily.

[JRN]

Newswatcher:

My question to Dan comes from this that he said:

"For the first time today I have been given information which suggests Natalee Holloway actually had her cell phone with her the night she was at Carlos and Charlies."

So, again my question is where did Dan get this new info from that Natalee had her cellphone with her that night?

Perhaps the only one that can answer that is Dan himself?

[Pearl]

Did Joran have his own cell phone or did he use Natalie's to call Deepak for the ride home from the beach which he later says Deepak did not do (give the ride). Were fingerprints taken from the cell phone that was supposed to be Natalies? Both phones if there were more than one??

[MomGotItGoin'On]

Posted by: JRN | Oct 13, 2005 5:13:45 PM

Yes, Dan, I would ask the same thing...the shrinking violets want to know!

[GrannyToad]

Where could she have carried a phone that 1) could only call US, 2) given the outfit she wore?

"Girl-pockets" with a drivers license & a few folded bills I "get". Sticking a phone into one's undies would stick out like a 3rd boob.

Nope, I cannot think of any reason for her carrying her phone. Not even if she had a local rental phone & hadn't yet turned it in.

[Sweetie]

where did Dan get this new info from

Good guestion, answer? Reliabe source not good enough, sorry.

[Sweetie]

Reliable ooops kant spel

[GrannyToad]

a beachfront room with a sliding glass door is not a very secure room at all. even if locked, it can be broken into easily.
Posted by: bmt | Oct 13, 2005 5:10:57 PM

Especially since the doors opened by the poolside not beach, from all accounts.

[JRN]

Where could she have carried a phone that 1) could only call US, 2) given the outfit she wore?

"Girl-pockets" with a drivers license & a few folded bills I "get". Sticking a phone into one's undies would stick out like a 3rd boob.

Nope, I cannot think of any reason for her carrying her phone. Not even if she had a local rental phone & hadn't yet turned it in.

Posted by: GrannyToad | Oct 13, 2005 5:18:45 PM

That skirt she was wearing, grannytoad could very well have had a few pockets in the front of it. I'm not sure if your realize just how tiny cell phones are today?

Also, I can think of several reasons she would like to take her cell phone with her that night. To get ahold of her friends if she wanted. Don't ya know that kids pretty much take their cell phones with them everywhere these days? Carrying a cell phone is like carrying a wallet.

Trust me, I have 2 kids myself with cell phones.

[MomGotItGoin'On]

Where could she have carried a phone that 1) could only call US, 2) given the outfit she wore?

"Girl-pockets" with a drivers license & a few folded bills I "get". Sticking a phone into one's undies would stick out like a 3rd boob.

Nope, I cannot think of any reason for her carrying her phone. Not even if she had a local rental phone & hadn't yet turned it in.

Posted by: GrannyToad | Oct 13, 2005 5:18:45 PM

That skirt she was wearing, grannytoad could very well have had a few pockets in the front of it. I'm not sure if your realize just how tiny cell phones are today?

Also, I can think of several reasons she would like to take her cell phone with her that night. To get ahold of her friends if she wanted. Don't ya know that kids pretty much take their cell phones with them everywhere these days? Carrying a cell phone is like carrying a wallet.

Trust me, I have 2 kids myself with cell phones.

Posted by: JRN | Oct 13, 2005 5:24:06 PM

Also - have you heard of cell phone holsters??? They clip onto waistbands...

[JRN]

Also - have you heard of cell phone holsters??? They clip onto waistbands...

Posted by: MomGotItGoin'On | Oct 13, 2005 5:25:24 PM

Yep, you got it MOM! My husband has one for work. I totally forgot about the holster. Good point!

[Dummyhunter]

Don't buy it. What else ya got, Dan?

[George]

> ... it is significant that ... some investigators are said to now believe she actually return to her room that night after having been at Carlos and Charlies.

> This thing is getting more and more strange everyday - and I didn't think that was possible.

Dan, :-)

I would think you may have read this e.g. at BHS; you just disliked an realization that Beth Twitty perfectly knows that Joran is innocent, that she knowingly tampered with evidence and intended to misdirect investigation.

Until very recently entertaining this version got posters banned at every popular forum, and perhaps TypePad might have closed your blog if you did.

But no matter what, I'm sure many are glad (at least I am) that you have finally stood up to pursue the real Truth.

[iquitos]

- well, the cell call was what led mrs. twitty and posse to charles croes and eventually to joran so it is very relevant. whose phone was it? did natalee have it with her? where is the rented phone?

- we saw on greta that the room lets onto the sand of the beach and some vegetation.

[JRN]

I buy it, but I would like to hear from Dan at least who this came from. A source in ARuba? one of the MB kids?

I don't need a name, but if Dan's sources are credible and he thinks this is a credible source I'm gonna go with him on it.

[Jon]

"Still, it is significant that she had her phone with her that night and some investigators are said to now believe she actually return to her room that night after having been at Carlos and Charlies."

Are these the same investigators who had the theory she died from an orgasm? Specifically, what evidence do they have that she returned to her room?

At a minimum, for that scenario to be possible, all four of the following things had to happen

1) For some reason, she avoided going thru the main lobby or any entrance with a security camera

2) She avoided being seen by any of the MB kids who were up partying around the pool or wandering around- or if any did see her they have all forgotten

3) The sliding glass door (possibly) leading from her room to the beach was left unlocked

4) She avoided being seen by the roommate interviewed in the NY Post, who returned to the room at about 12:00 that nite.

And that's at a minimum, because I've read conflicting reports on whether the sliding glass door really opened directly onto the beach, or into an enclosed area, and whether it was even possible to open the door from the outside.

Also, someone e-mailed C. Croess, and he replied that the mystery phone call was not related to Natalee. If there had been a call made from Natalee's phone, or a phone that she rented, after she left CnC, even Aruba LE would have checked the phone records and discovered that by now. And we most likely would know it too, that would be too big not to leak.

[DayoGould]

Dan, this is getting better and better.

How can you be so cruel as to put this out right now? It's Natalee's birthday on October 21, and HollowayMedia Inc., through blogsfornatalee.Inc and nataleeholloway.Inc, have sent out reminders (and requests for donations) to all the people in their databases.

If you keep on putting out facts, instead of fallacy, there are going to more than a few sour notes as they cybersing Happy Birthday.

Little Timmy, of blogsfor.Inc is having his mom bake a cybercake. Guess you won't be invited to the fun and festivities.

[Amber]

Scared Monkeys just shut down their Natalee Holloway forum, maybe they have figured out that they have been played.

[Hat]

Played like what?

[b]

an,

Where did you get this new information from? It would help to name a source if you want people to believe this.

Dan, I believe you without your sources. Don't give up any of your sources, you just keep going on as you have been...I for one think you are on the right track.

[JRN]

Played like what?

Posted by: Hat | Oct 13, 2005 5:48:55 PM

Like a fiddle by Mansur, skeeters, tjward, beth twitty, marcia twitty, jug twitty.

[George]

> Also, someone e-mailed C. Croess, and he replied that the mystery phone call was not related to Natalee.

This must be a plain lie. Charles Croes explicitly told in his post at Aruba.com that he is required not to disclose this information to public.

[Amber]

Hat:

The SM forum has been very pro Twitty, if anything that Dan is reporting is correct, scared monkeys got played by the Twitty's. One of the bloggers at SM even wnt to Aruba and dug throught te dump with TES, all the while the mom and stepdad were misleading investigators. I would feel like a fool.

[cathy]

Haven't had a chance to read but here is something i have been thinking of all day. I have an enormous amount of faith in the FBI.

Dan, I noticed some clamoring for your sources. Didn't a very nice female reporter recently go to jail rather than reveal her sources? Don't you dare reveal those sources, these people trust you and have faith in you. Noone posting on a blog has the right to make such a demand. If you are correct, in the end, it will be proven. If you aren't I have full faith that you will then admit that you were wrong. You have character and integrity and a heart. Thanks for all you are doing. Because, despite what some on this site believe, IT IS ALL ABOUT FINDING THE MISSING YOUNG WOMAN and I know that is what you know.

[JRN]

Where did you get this new information from? It would help to name a source if you want people to believe this.

Dan, I believe you without your sources. Don't give up any of your sources, you just keep going on as you have been...I for one think you are on the right track.

Posted by: b | Oct 13, 2005 5:51:36 PM

b,

I was asking Dan for a source meaning.....
MB kid?
Aruba person?
Media?

I wasn't asking for a personal name.
Just wanted to clarify that.

It is important for me to understand from what source this is coming.

[Gordy]

Played like what?

Posted by: Hat | Oct 13, 2005 5:48:55 PM

Like a fiddle by Mansur, skeeters, tjward, beth twitty, marcia twitty, jug twitty.

Posted by: JRN | Oct 13, 2005 5:55:16 PM

To HAT:
Played...
Or maybe by all of the fake Mountain Brook posters that were spouting information for months...who was behind all of that garbage...of course, they were bounced along with the thought provoking posts. Mysteriously, all disappears with that Monkey site.

[Melody]

Played...
Or maybe by all of the fake Mountain Brook posters that were spouting information for months...who was behind all of that garbage...of course, they were bounced along with the thought provoking posts. Mysteriously, all disappears with that Monkey site.

Posted by: Gordy | Oct 13, 2005 6:04:13 PM

ha ;)

[b]

b,

I was asking Dan for a source meaning.....
MB kid?
Aruba person?
Media?

I wasn't asking for a personal name.
Just wanted to clarify that.

It is important for me to understand from what source this is coming.

Posted by: JRN | Oct 13, 2005 5:59:5

I know what you were thinking. What others are thinking is that even to give out so broad a category could jeopardize the investigation.

[Cowboy]

Is it true that DOG is postin here too?

[George]

Who is "DOG"?

[usmcmom]

If there had been a call made from Natalee's phone, or a phone that she rented, after she left CnC, even Aruba LE would have checked the phone records and discovered that by now. And we most likely would know it too, that would be too big not to leak.

Posted by: Jon | Oct 13, 2005 5:42:04 PM

I'm going with Jon on this one... why would Natalee take her cellphone with her to C&C's, we've been told this whole time it was worthless b/c it couldn't call anyone, that's why they had to rent phones. So did they rent phones or didn't they?

[nc_mom]

I thought it was because her real US cell phone ended up not working in Aruba, so she rented a phone while there. Maybe the real phone was in her room and the rented phone was with her.

Posted by: Lanier | Oct 13, 2005 4:43:18 PM

I thought that Natalee's regular cell phone was left in the room, but she had the rented phone with her at C&Cs. About a week or so after she went missing, I remember Beth on a show saying that she just had Natalee's phone set up so that it would work Internationally, and then she said something like "Natalee, call your cell phone I have it and it will work".

[letsbefair]

Hat:

The SM forum has been very pro Twitty, if anything that Dan is reporting is correct, scared monkeys got played by the Twitty's. One of the bloggers at SM even wnt to Aruba and dug throught te dump with TES, all the while the mom and stepdad were misleading investigators. I would feel like a fool.

Posted by: Amber | Oct 13, 2005 5:57:00 PM

That "fool" belongs in a trash dump. He should have stayed there. (with Junior the 30yr crack addict)

[JRN]

I'm going with Jon on this one... why would Natalee take her cellphone with her to C&C's, we've been told this whole time it was worthless b/c it couldn't call anyone, that's why they had to rent phones. So did they rent phones or didn't they?

Posted by: usmcmom | Oct 13, 2005 6:27:01 PM

Unfortunately we never got the true facts from the horses mouth(beth,marcia,chaperones,mbkids)with regards to the "cellphone" situation. All of it is heresay. We do know, however that Gretas interview with Charles Croes was heavily edited. That much we do know. Unfortunatly Greta managed to hide and disquise everything even from that interview by editing it.

Your real question should be...
When are the MB kids going to talk, and when is Beth going to start answering some of these very important questions? And when is the media going to start asking these important questions and demand some answers, other than skirting with words such as..."well you know"

[Paulo]

Of course, Beth contaminated much evidence by going through Natalee's luggage rather than handing it all over to LE.

Posted by: newswatcher | Oct 13, 2005 5:04:34 PM

____________________________________________________________________

newswatcher,

I think you're great. I have seen some of your work at other sites and your attention to detail is exemplary!

What on earth do you think the Aruban LE would have done with Nat's belongings? I think you get my point.

In other news...I have maintained throughout this ENTIRE misfortune that Natalee did not use her own cell phone whilst on the island. One, from several sources it appears that her cell, all configured with international access did not work--or so we are led to believe. Yes, there is a drift there did you catch it? Maybe she just didn't want to use her cell, ahemmmm.

Does anyone find it odd that the very first thing that the Twitty's did upon arrival--day/minute one? Yep, the went to the quickest and easiest cell phone rental joint there; in fact, it may have been in the airport. Nonetheless, didn't the association with C. Croes originate vis-a-vie the cell phone?

One more item: I was reading lately about a brew-ha-ha that apparently happened between Beth and Natalee the night prior to departure. Actually I read where on the original Missing/Kidnapped posters Beth literally had it written [paraphrasing], Hootie, I'm sorry, and I forgive you, please come home.

Paulo

[usmcmom]

About a week or so after she went missing, I remember Beth on a show saying that she just had Natalee's phone set up so that it would work Internationally, and then she said something like "Natalee, call your cell phone I have it and it will work".

Posted by: nc_mom | Oct 13, 2005 6:33:11 PM
That's what I remember too, I thought Beth set the phone up to work internationally "after" she got there... but then I just re-read this from Dan's link...

excerpt
As reported earlier, it is has been said that the remaining chaperone did use Natalee Holloway's cell phone the next day to reach her friends for more information that might have helped in finding Natalee early on in her disappearance. corroborated.

How the heck then did the chaperone use Natalee's phone to reach her friends for more information if her phone didn't work off of Aruba? If her phone worked internationally, then she wouldn't have had to rent a local phone...

[DrTar&ProFeather]

Well, Dan, it may be weird, but this is the closest we have had to real news for a very long time.

I don't need to know your sources. The Bethites will clamour for sources because this news does not fit in with their scenario. One thing I no longer have, is my own personal scenario, as to what happened to Natalee. There have been too many red herrings and leading us around by the nose by the Twitty's and Jossy and MSM in general. What I am now calling the Bethites, have bought into the Twitty's and Jossy's and the MSM's scenario of what happened to Natalee, and they are so close minded and anal about their view, that it arouses incredible malice in their reactions to a different slant on things.

I read here somewhere, today, that it would be pretty dang scary to have some of you sit on a jury, and I totally agree. There is very little objectivity in the Bethites' cultish scenario. I just can't see why? Do you identify so empathetic-ally with Beth, that you are emotionally involved in this story? Granted, as a parent of daughters close to Natalee in age, my heart breaks for her family. But something is not quite right in that whole Twitty, MountainBrook, story. No reaction of Beth's and Jugs appears to be typical, other than natural grief. We can begin with Beth's belief that Natalee had been kidnapped, her driving 100 mph and then being able to jump on a plane with a handpicked posse and fly to Aruba and demand answers. That is no way typical anything. It is Hollywood.

Bethites: You are being jerked around like marionettes by the Twitty's, Jossy Mansur, and the MSM. Setting all empathy aside, that really pisses me off.

[b]

Cell phones are completely traceable. The only time you would not use your cell phone is if you didn't want anyone to know where you were calling. I could understand the cameras but I could never understand confiscating the cell phones. I think now, we have our answer.

[26ANDCOUNTING]

How the heck then did the chaperone use Natalee's phone to reach her friends for more information if her phone didn't work off of Aruba? If her phone worked internationally, then she wouldn't have had to rent a local phone...

Posted by: usmcmom | Oct 13, 2005 6:38:45 PM

Very good point.