Natalee Holloway: Clearing Up Details

As I don't particularly know Aruba, I'm not defending anyone leaving someone else alone on a beach at night. But one thing is strange to me. There were many visitors that night because of the music festival - some attendees came by boat. It's my understanding that there were often people around the beaches at night in Aruba, even without a large concert.

Not sure what that all adds up to, but along with that, here's an image taken from infront of the fisherman's hut area looking south toward Natalee's hotel. Hopefully it'll provide some perspective, if nothing else.

Also, if this was their last destination from a car ride which went to the lighthouse - it seems odd they would have stopped so close to the hotel to be alone, unless the plan was for Natalee to return there at the end of their time together. It looks like the closest location to have some time alone without actually going back to the room itself - assuming there was no one there. Any closer and the beach becomes more public.

Comments

[scubajap]

Why would Joran offer to take Natalee to the light house if he new Depak's car was too low to make it to the light house?
Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 7:20:58 PM

There is a well paved road to the lighthouse-one does not need a SUV or jeep to go there-tourist with rented cars go there all the time. I is not a problem for Deepak's car. The so called "shark feeding ground" Boca Mahos-which is now an Aruban urban myth BTW-IS a very rough road, and the ledge around it is very unstable-it already fell away once killing two men fishing there-so it is cordoned off.

[swhiteyo]

"i'm sure she had sex with all of you?"
dk, "she did. you'd be surprised at how simple it was"
dk, "to tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one, would get in a car with 3 strange guys"

ahh, i think i get it now.... if a girl/woman dresses and talks like a slut, they deserve to be gang raped and probably murdered.

[scubajap]

Where was the concert? and where were the boats pulled up?

Posted by: bmt | Oct 9, 2005 7:08:39 PM

The concert was at the Surfside Beach-close to the Airport, about 6 miles south of this area-on the far side of Oranjestad.
The after party was at the Havana Beach Club next to the concert grounds. NOT a rave party, BTW-the concert people were not that kind of crowd, and they are the ones that would go to the after parties, they were actually part of their package for the concert-locals would have to pay to get in, and they weren't cheap.

[TJ]

These boys (and men) seem to have there own way of interacting: gangsta' stuff and bad-mouthing young girls together. Maybe they left her at the huts and then either one of the three cell-phoned one or more of their buddies to advise him (them) that there was another "drunk American slut" alone by the shacks.

[frank]

Posted by: W | Oct 9, 2005 7:01:19 PM

I assume you mean there is not one shred of evidence that there was a crime?

How did Joran and the kalpoe's end up in jail? The last known person to be with natalee still does not have a corroborated story as to his whereabouts that night.

So either you don't see a crime or your once again bashing Beth? Who brought in the kalpoe's for premediated murder and rape? Why was Joran held for the maximum? Are you saying Beth is responsible for this?

[Isanah]

dk admitted that all three had sex with natalie to the guy that was going to give him a polygraph test. he was asked if he had sex with natalie and he stated, "yes, we all had sex with natalie, me, joran and satish"...let me see if i can find an internet link. i saw this on fox news. you could clearly see dk and the polygrapher during this video. the polygrapher told dk flat out that if he was guilty of bringing harm to natalie, he shouldn't take the test. if he was innocent, he shouldn't take the test. it was pretty interesting.

Posted by: swhiteyo | Oct 9, 2005 5:07:18 PM

Your part of spreading the untruths by the above translation of Deepak's statement. Your own link proved that Deepak did not say the statement you quoted. That is what angers those of us that are seeking the truth, how those like you interpret everyting to meet your own assumptions. Even Beth admits that she has never heard the entire tape of Deepak's interview. It seems to me that could be a ploy when, and if the tape, ever gets aired completely, Beth can say she didn't realize the tape was edited in that way.

[scubajap]

Where was the concert? and where were the boats pulled up?

Posted by: bmt | Oct 9, 2005 7:08:39 PM
As for most of the boats that would be along the shoreline that wouldn't be there normally:
what you have is dozens of boats that run water activities during the day-these are usually put in early in the morning and taken out in the evening with a trailer. while working they just line up along the shore and toss an anchor into the sand. it is easy to climb on board-they are lined up along the water's edge.
Many that have boats used them to go to the concert that night-but when they returned to the area it was around midnight or later-and they did not care to go through the process of removing their boats when they would have to put them back in a few hours so they just stayed.
I can name three for certain-very likely there were more.
This is just a theory as to their being employed; but as to the information that they were actually there, that is fact.

[frank]

Scuba,

What's your thoughts on Dompig's comments of yesterday?

Reporter: Do you think that Natalee Holloway is dead and one or more of these three suspects are involved in it?

Dompig: Well, of course you don’t know, that is what investigating is all about. You have to assume that there was some foul play. We never stopped looking for the live Natalee. Although those efforts were kinda on a back burner.

Reporter: Do you think you have your man in one or all three of them?

Dompig: Yes, let me say this. Basic thumb rule says that in the first forty days of your investigation you probably have talked to the perps. We feel that we have talked to them.

[kerrilynn212]

It is sooooo dark at night! Let's keep this in perspective, please.

[bizman12]

GAmom,
Deepak's car is not too low to go to the lighthouse.In fact you could ride a Go-Kart with no problem at all.I rented the worst car available,yes the Diahtsu Charade,it is just like a Go-Kart with doors and A/C.

The road leading to the Lighthouse is fairly smooth with a few bumps along the way but is easily navigated without bottoming out a vehicle.Once at the Lighthouse there is a beautiful view along with a restaurant and bar.The areas around the Lighthouse is rugged terrain even so any car could drive on the dirt roads at least for some distance before it becomes too rough to ride on.There are countless dirt roads that lead to the beach area before you get to the Lighthouse where people who want privacy can surely have privacy.

In fact GAmom,all indications are Carlos N Charlies closed at 1:30 a.m.,so a ride to the lighthouse and then back to the Fisherman's Hut Beach takes about 30 minutes.So it was more like 40 minutes since they spent time twice with the Mountain Brook kids who asked Natalee to not go with the 3 boys.That would put Natalee and Joran on the beach at 2:10 A.M.,the Kalpoe's would have gotten home around 2:35 or so or later if they went by a store or someother place before getting home,but more than likely they went straight home.

It has been reported that Joran called Deepak at 2:40 A.M. for a ride and Deepak said no and then it is stated that Joran called again at 3:20 A.M. after he walked home.SO that leaves a total of 30 minutes of time that Natalee and Joran spent together at the beach.Under this timeline it is sufficient to say that Natalee is still the VIRGIN that Beth claims her to be.Yes that's right a total of 30 minutes together on the beach.

[scubajap]

Posted by: W | Oct 9, 2005 7:01:19 PM

I assume you mean there is not one shred of evidence that there was a crime?
Posted by: frank | Oct 9, 2005 7:40:38 PM

Actually YES-according to both v/d Stratten and Dompig, there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITED not only not in any of the cars of the v/d sloots, or Deepaks or Joran's apartment -or around the environs of v/d sloot property-which they went over serveral times with a cadaver dog (according to an eye witness) nor from any of the other suspects that were brought in and questioned-and I am not only talking about Jones and Johns, I am talking about the ones you DIDN'T hear about-because they did look at all posibilites.
The only thing that got those boys jailed is that they were reported to be the last seen with her, and they told A lie.
and they never implicated or 'fingered' the two guards-they only said someone dressed in black with a walkie-talkie that appeared to be a security guard.

[Jon]

Also, has it been verified that they actually went to the light house. I remember that Natalee thought she was going to the lighthouse because that was in the msn before we ever knew Joran's name. Some MB kids said she left with a boy to go see the light house. I also remember a male student on tv saying that Natalee said something to him about going to see some sharks. Why would Joran offer to take Natalee to the light house if he new Depak's car was too low to make it to the light house? Also, remember Depak's mother talking about how ticky he was about his car and that he didn't even drive it to work. Now I could be wrong but that's the way I remember it. If so that sounds like Natalee was misled by Joran. I know that some MB kids said that they passed them on the way back to the HI and were heading toward the California Lighthouse, but I think you can get to Joran's house that way also. And it can't be to far since he walked home that night.

Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 7:20:58 PM

The suspects are the only source for the claims that she wanted to go to the litehouse, and that she wanted to see the sharks (at night). The encounter with the MB kids did not happen on the way back from the litehouse, it happened about a block from CnC. Joran's home is about a 40 minute walk from the Marriott beach.

[GAmom]

scubajap

Thanks for the info and that means that there is possibly another lie if I remember correctly. I am almost positive the Kalpo mom said that Depak told her Natalee wanted to go to the light house and they drove near it but that he told her he couldn't drive all the way out there because his car was too low. And like it has been said you can't see sharks in the ocean at night. It just sounds like Natalee left C&C's thinking she was going to see the light house and sharks and that she was misled by Joran and the brother's

[scubajap]

scuba, hey, didn't know you were still here, hi.

Posted by: helmut | Oct 9, 2005 7:43:17 PM

Just visiting now and them-checking out the new articles and occasionaly commenting.

[scubajap]

Dompig: Yes, let me say this. Basic thumb rule says that in the first forty days of your investigation you probably have talked to the perps. We feel that we have talked to them.

Posted by: frank | Oct 9, 2005 7:43:21 PM
And do you think JK2 are the only ones they brought in for questioning??

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Depak KALPOE stated, “She did. You`d be surprised how simple it was.” ...

This was an instant response to the statement:
"I`m sure she had sex with all of you,”

transcript:
.........
On 9-15 “NBC” reported that SKEETER met with Current Suspect D. KALPOE in the lobby of SKEETER’s hotel and SKEETER audio-recorded, Current Suspect D. KALPOE

When SKEETER commented that “If it was an accident, I can help all of you. And if you guys were partying, even if someone had given her a date drug,
I`m sure she had sex with all of you,”

Current Suspect D. KALPOE stated, “She did. You`d be surprised how simple it was.”

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEpersons.html

[Formerlyj]

Steve Croes has the answer

[scubajap]

the Kalpo mom said that Depak told her Natalee wanted to go to the light house and they drove near it but that he told her he couldn't drive all the way out there because his car was too low. And like it has been said you can't see sharks in the ocean at night. It just sounds like Natalee left C&C's thinking she was going to see the light house and sharks and that she was misled by Joran and the brother's

Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 7:54:49 PM
I would listen to it again-it could be she said he wouldn't go to Boca Mahos-but I will have to listen again for the details.
I do know that Deepak wouldn't have driven his car by the pond-he even mentioned that on Friday-I was talking to him-and I have been out there and examined that road (if you want to call it that) and I can't believe the gardener would use it either when a smooth, well-lit highway is only 50 yards away. It is all coral rock which can cut your tires, bumpy and rutted. That whole business just doesn't make sense.

[Jon]

In fact GAmom,all indications are Carlos N Charlies closed at 1:30 a.m.,so a ride to the lighthouse and then back to the Fisherman's Hut Beach takes about 30 minutes.So it was more like 40 minutes since they spent time twice with the Mountain Brook kids who asked Natalee to not go with the 3 boys.

Posted by: bizman12 |

There was only one incident where MB kids asked Nat to get out of the car (which I'm told they thought was a taxi). It happened by the bus stop at the intersection of Werf Street and the main road, and was very brief, might have just consisted of Nat shouting something to them and them shouting something back.

[scubajap]

Posted by: AkekoaHoAlethia | Oct 9, 2005 7:56:48 PM

Don't go by the transcript-download the playing of the tape and REALLY listen to it-try to get past the dramatic sound effects used to cover the editing.

Listen to how clear the questions are-and how muffled the answers are.

[swhiteyo]

Isanah,

if you bothered to read my later post with the quotes in tact and corrected...you would see i am not trying to spread half truths. i'll even give you the one where dk says "we did" since there is a possibility of editing the tapes, however, how about the vile in his voice when he speaks of natalie talking and dressing like a slut. i have seen the pictures, and i do not believe natalie looked like a slut. i also believe beth when she stated that her daughter was a virgin. has anyone come forth and disputed that fact?

screw you Isanah ... i am making a point.

[GAmom]

Jon, I don't think the supsects are the only source for the information about going to the lighthouse. I remember a male mb student making that statement on tv and it being reported that mb students said she left C&C's with Joran to go to the lighthouse. That was reproted the first day she was missing. I could be wrong but that is what I remember. Why did Depak lie and tell Natalee his car was too low when it wasn't.

[scubajap]

There was only one incident where MB kids asked Nat to get out of the car (which I'm told they thought was a taxi). It happened by the bus stop at the intersection of Werf Street and the main road, and was very brief, might have just consisted of Nat shouting something to them and them shouting something back.

Posted by: Jon | Oct 9, 2005 8:06:04 PM

I know this is nitpicking-but it is the Weststratt.

[scubajap]

actually more nitpicking -Weststraat.

[GAmom]

scubajap , You talked to Depak last Friday?

[Sharon]

COMMENT: ....IF THEY WERE EVER on the beach, it was somewhere private away from the crowds so that they all could rape her without worry of someone seeing them...I believe they knew exactly where to drive to to find their rape spot...because they probably have been there done that before!!! Put them behind bars where they belong!!!

[scubajap]

scubajap , You talked to Depak last Friday?

Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 8:16:12 PM
Yes

[GAmom]

Next time you talk to him ask him why he lied for Joran? If he really left Joran and Natalee on the beach like he said, why in God's name would he tell a lie that would involve him in a possible crime. And why would Satish do the same? Who's idea was it to tell the lie. Who asked him to lie. I can't understand their allegiance to Joran. And really there was no reason for Joran to lie either. Why didn't he just say I left her at the beach the first time.

[Sharon]

COMMENT GAMON...Next time you talk to him ask him why he lied for Joran? If he really left Joran and Natalee on the beach like he said, why in God's name would he tell a lie that would involve him in a possible crime. And why would Satish do the same? Who's idea was it to tell the lie. Who asked him to lie. I can't understand their allegiance to Joran. And really there was no reason for Joran to lie either. Why didn't he just say I left her at the beach the first time.

RESPONSE: MY THEORY would be that Paulus's connection with the drug world took care of getting rid of Natalee in the wee hours of the morning and the Kalpoe's know this because they raped her and knew that she died from overdose or choking...and they figure they can never tell what happened because they will be snuffed out by the Drug King..this is my theory!!!

[GAmom]

no offense Sharon but I would like to hear Depak's version.

[Sharon]

I AM THINKING...that Joran would be the one to have ended Natalies life after all three raped her...because if it was Deepak and Joran was there he would be squelling like a pig...Ok I had sex with her but Deepak killed her...in other words he would have turned on his two friends...but I now think the Kalpoes are too worried about squelling on JOran because of Paulus's connections in the drug world and they got rid of the body...that is my theory!!!

[scubajap]

Oh by the way-
checked out The Lion's Den last night.
I must admit that the Clausen site has been a source of great hilarity here in Aruba-from the "air of mystery" at LAX, the person "following them" from the moment they arrived in Aruba- to the totally incorrect identification of the Tattoo-which was the Yellow Submarine-the Tattoo could never pull up to the dock at Hadicurari-which is where they were-it pulls too deep a draft. Also to the fact that they asked a local to identify it as the Tattoo-and when he said it wasn't -they assumed he was lying!! The name is right there on the front of the boat in big letters, as is the Tattoo's-my son found this particularly amusing.

As for the Lion's Den and Indo Restaurant-The VIP club is owned by a very nice Dutchman with 2 teenage daughters-13 an 15, they were rennovating at the time of the Clausen's vistit-that is the young girls that they saw. Also all the lighting equipment for the club-not "where Freddy took his pictures" as that claim has already been proved completely false.
VIP club-open WEdnesday through Sunday-9 pm to 4am -live band on Fridays and Saturdays-Karaoke on Wednesdays, Happy hour on Sundays-cozy little place-decor a bit rococo for my taste.

INDO restaurant-while there had a bite to eat with my son-cheap prices-standard main course $6.50 to $10.00. Not really to tourist taste-unless you want to go native. Run by a very nice man-his wife in the kitchen-his daughter serving.
My son and I ordered Bami-a kind of Indonesion Lo Mein-mine with stewed chicken-his with Sate and Pinda sauce-it was just o.k. too much MSG-gave me a headache.

Looks like things will stay status quo with the Clausens on the case!
BTW-I think their "informant" was kind of goofing on the tourists that were so determined to solve the Natalee Holloway mystery during their one week in Aruba- Don't you?

[Jon]

There was only one incident where MB kids asked Nat to get out of the car (which I'm told they thought was a taxi). It happened by the bus stop at the intersection of Werf Street and the main road, and was very brief, might have just consisted of Nat shouting something to them and them shouting something back.

Posted by: Jon | Oct 9, 2005 8:06:04 PM

I know this is nitpicking-but it is the Weststratt.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 9, 2005 8:12:48 PM

No, actually it was Werfstratt. Satish's lawyer stated that the encounter hapened at the bus station intersection, and the bus station is one block down from CnC, at the end of Werfstratt.

Weststratt is a one way street, so Deepak couldn't go straight north from CnC to the Weststratt/main road intersection. His logical route from CnC would have been to go down Weststratt, take 2 rights onto Werfstratt, go up Werfstratt, then take a left onto the main road in front of the bus station.

[scubajap]

Next time you talk to him ask him why he lied for Joran? If he really left Joran and Natalee on the beach like he said, why in God's name would he tell a lie that would involve him in a possible crime. And why would Satish do the same? Who's idea was it to tell the lie. Who asked him to lie. I can't understand their allegiance to Joran. And really there was no reason for Joran to lie either. Why didn't he just say I left her at the beach the first time.

Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 8:23:33 PM
GAmom-that is very hard to explain here-in a way that you would find plausible -but you must understand-they did think Natalee was ok and off having "an adventure" it happens here ALL THE TIME-it is the norm. It is what everyone thought at the beginning-They were scared-Deepak agreed to support Joran for just so long-and then he would tell the truth-He went everywhere with the police the days before he got arrested, from morning to night-while they checked all the leads from sightings-trying to ID or confirm any sightings of blond girls around the island.
We have lots and lots of blond Dutch girls living on Aruba-there were lots and lots of calls.
As for the dymanics of their relationship-that he hasn't seen fit to discuss.
Many things he CANNOT discuss under orders of the judiciary-and I am a reporter-so I can understand his reluctance-especially after the Jamie Skeeters business. We will talk about some things, but other questions he shuts up about-and I can understand that-one thing he did answer that always irked me-he confirmed that he never wrote the famous "Deepak E-mails"

[dadreamer]

I read that the Lions Den was attached to a house or something, and a separate address from the INDO which was attached to the VIP club. Is that true? Is there a Lions Den?

[scubajap]

No, actually it was Werfstratt. Satish's lawyer stated that the encounter hapened at the bus station intersection, and the bus station is one block down from CnC, at the end of Werfstratt.

Weststratt is a one way street, so Deepak couldn't go straight north from CnC to the Weststratt/main road intersection. His logical route from CnC would have been to go down Weststratt, take 2 rights onto Werfstratt, go up Werfstratt, then take a left onto the main road in front of the bus station.

Posted by: Jon | Oct 9, 2005 8:38:33 PM

ok - actually we are both right-the Werfstraat is also one way-this goes to the water-and where it meets the main two way street-which is L.G. Smith blvd BTW-is also where the Westraat starts-going in the opposite direction. so if he was on a two way street-he was on smith blvd-just were the two streets meet. If someone at choose a name saw the car-it would have been after he turned up the Westraat-where Choose a name is one small block up.
so-you aren't wrong-but neither am I

[scubajap]

I read that the Lions Den was attached to a house or something, and a separate address from the INDO which was attached to the VIP club. Is that true? Is there a Lions Den?

Posted by: dadreamer | Oct 9, 2005 8:42:34 PM
Naaah-c'mon, what do you think?

I have asked dozens of people I know in the clubbing crowd-no one has ever heard of the "Lion's Den"
And the Clausens talk about the girls going into the back of the club.
Don't you think that these bartenders get quizzed so much that they might not start to have some fun with the tourists?
I know we all do-every island visitor asks any of us for all the juicy details-I should start thinking up some good ones myself-just for fun,
but it is not my nature.
I usually try to bust the myths.

[bizman12]

Jon,
I never said there were 2 occasions where Natalee was in the car and asked to get out.You are correct it was the intersection just around the block from CNC'S .

What I did say was that she was asked twice by MB'ers not to go with the boys.Once while in the car and once before they ever got into the car in front of CNC's.

ScubaJap,
You are correct the dirt roads around the pond and most roads in all neighborhoods close to it are very rugged roads and bumpy as all get out.If the gardener was so hot he left his house because the A/C was broken he most certainly would have been out on the main road where he could have got his car up to speed to generate some air to cool his hot ass off.Fact a car has to go slow around the pond area and most neighborhoods close to it due to poor road conditions.

The answers to this situation lies with the Mountain Brook kids and the truth will come out.

[dadreamer]

They gave an address for both, I think Noord 15 for one, and Noord 17 for the INDO/VIP. Can someone check Noord 15 and see what is there?

[HenriLaFleur]

Prepare to be verbally assaulted scuba for relating what you believe to be the truth. Many people on here think that because they told the lie initially, that nothing they have told is the truth. That is very narrowminded. Truth is one of these boys would have cracked by now if they actually knew her ultimate fate. I do not believe they are murderers.

[dadreamer]

I don't know if these investigators are good/bad or otherwise, but it seems easy enough to prove or disprove based on the address and their claim their was a sign on the building.

http://64.69.33.211/nh/siframes.html

[chip]

scuba

i sent you an e-mail when i thought you were not posting here anymore.....it got dumped back to me..........would you mind if i copy it here? i was reading & saw you here?

thanks

[Texasnurse]

bizman12

Your time line of events are fairly reasonable, but that 30 minutes at the beach where Joran and Natalee were alone at the beach is far more than enough time for Natalee to surrender her virginity to Joran if that is what actually took place at the beach.

What you need to realize is when a female is ready to surrender her virginity she will select the special male,the special place,the special time etc and there is very little if anything that anyone can do to stop or prevent her from surrendering her virginity!

It only takes a few minutes of the correct type foreplay for her to be ready for the main event;and the total rupture of her hyman is over with in less than 30 seconds and then the length of time for rest of the sex act depends on both parties! So thirty minutes is way more than enough time for a female to surrender her virginity!
The same 30 minute time line would also apply to a non-virgin female as well!

Sex between a female and a male regardless if the female is a virgin or non-virgin just does not occur unless the female wants the sex to occur with the exception being that she is clearly raped!

Simply stated; if the female is interested in having sex with the male in the first place...the sex will happen and if she is not interested in having sex( even with her boyfriend or husband) the sex will not take place!! Like it or not...that is a fact of life!!

Most people simply forgot or they have never been aware that many females are also very sexually aggressive especially when they are drinking or have been drinking!

[GAmom]

scubajap

Okay, but it they thought she was ok and off having an adventure then why not just go with the left her at the beach story. That would have seemed plausible. Seems to me if Joran asked Depak and Satish to participate in the
lie, well I wonder if they weren't suspicious as to why Joran wanted them to lie and say he took her back to the HI instead of just leaving her on the beach. I for one do not beleive the gang rape theory. I do think Joran had something to do with her disappearance. I remember back in July Dan making post about Depak and that it looked like he was the one. I always thought they(Joran and Paulus) were trying to set Depak up. I think it was Paulus's idea to get Depak and Satish involved in the lie because if not then Joran would be the last one seen with her and the only one under suspicion. They're lying for Joran involved and put them front and center in this. I just hope he has or will tell all he knows about that night.

[Jon]

Jon,
I never said there were 2 occasions where Natalee was in the car and asked to get out.You are correct it was the intersection just around the block from CNC'S .

What I did say was that she was asked twice by MB'ers not to go with the boys.Once while in the car and once before they ever got into the car in front of CNC's.
Jon,
I never said there were 2 occasions where Natalee was in the car and asked to get out.You are correct it was the intersection just around the block from CNC'S .

What I did say was that she was asked twice by MB'ers not to go with the boys.Once while in the car and once before they ever got into the car in front of CNC's.

Posted by: bizman12 | Oct 9, 2005 8:50:31 PM

Nat was not asked not to go with the boys before she got in the car. As she was walking outside CnC next to Joran, Alana Jordan asked her if she was OK. She said yes, pointed to another group of students walking up ahead, and said she was going with them. At some other point an MB student asked her if she needed a ride, and she said no (later he saw her leaving with Deepak but did not speak to her at that time). Those are the only 2 MB students who are known to have spoken to her outside before she left. There was also a male student who saw her getting in the car, but he did not speak to her.

[bizman12]

Texasnurse,
I totally agree with you.It does not take long.Does it?Yeah they could have had sex in 30 minutes or less time,foreplay and all and if it did happen I am sure that most guys would be ready to go after the deed.

The remark about Natalee still being the VIRGIN that Beth thinks she was was pure sarcasm intended for the KOOL-AID DRINKERS of Beth bullcrap.

So yes they could have had sex,Joran walks home,Natalee walks the short distance to the HI,something bad happens there,,everyone scrams and gets the hell out of there and to the airport and back home and very little to come out of Mountain Brook since.

[danie]

Would someone please clarify how the police (v/d Stratten & Dompig) could make the statement "not one shred of physical evidence that a crime has been committed"...i believed that it was against the law to release any evidence or lack thereof in relation to a case? further making it inadmissible to the court...or is it just the prosecutor's office that is forbidden by law to release such evidentiary information?
According to scubajap's post...this included nothing in v/d sloot's cars, deepak and joran's apartments, and nothing in environs of v/d sloot's property...several times with a cadaver dog (according to an eyewitness? not according to the police who made the blanket statement?)Could someone please clarify...doubt if scubajap still here.
Further the only reason the "boys" were taken into custody, was because they were the last "reportedly" seen with Natalee and they lied. The police can issue a statement about evidence, but not about clarifying the release of the three "suspects"? Obviously, the court released them, but understand according to Aruban law, nothing is to be made public beyond the statement in the court's opinion, not enough evidence to hold them...any more clarification is forbidden by law? could someone clarify this...thanks, danie

[bizman12]

Jon,
So you saying that there were 3 times where Natalee was around fellow students after the closing of CNC's and all 3 times she did not take the opportunity to escape from the KIDNAPPERS.

Whether or not she was once or twice or three times asked not to go with them is not worth arguing about.I have read where it was twice,you say once,the paragraph you posted is not indicative of what otehrs may say but only what one source said.Bottom line is she had opportunity to leave with her classmates which totally debunks Beth's claim of Natalee being kidnapped and of her claim that Natalee never stood a chance.

[scubajap]

Ok-your right-someones house-from the picture- and description -it might be the guy from the Indo-but I will check it out. But really-from the qualtiy of the investigative abilities in regards to obvious things like the Tattoo and Moomba Beach-(I mean trained investigators-you would think they would get the name of the bar where they hung out all week correct)
I still tend to think they have over active imaginations.

scubajap

Okay, but it they thought she was ok and off having an adventure then why not just go with the left her at the beach story. That would have seemed plausible. Seems to me if Joran asked Depak and Satish to participate in the
lie, well I wonder if they weren't suspicious as to why Joran wanted them to lie and say he took her back to the HI instead of just leaving her on the beach. I for one do not beleive the gang rape theory. I do think Joran had something to do with her disappearance. I remember back in July Dan making post about Depak and that it looked like he was the one. I always thought they(Joran and Paulus) were trying to set Depak up. I think it was Paulus's idea to get Depak and Satish involved in the lie because if not then Joran would be the last one seen with her and the only one under suspicion. They're lying for Joran involved and put them front and center in this. I just hope he has or will tell all he knows about that night.

Posted by: GAmom | Oct 9, 2005 9:08:43 PM
I have said over and over-I am still up in the air about Joran-I have had no chance to question him like the others-I get mixed reports about him-he was quite the ladies man-and pretty much a bastard that way-juggling 3 girlfriends at once-AND bragging about it-but it depends on who you talk to -others think he is a very nice boy.

I only hear good things about Deepak from anyone that has known him since he has lived here-none can believe he would do such a thing-so you have to take that into account when the police did not go after them right away-they were looking more towards people they thought capable of the crime-and others were picked up and questioned-you just haven't heard much about them because it was in the early days- before the MSM got here.

[dadreamer]

Thanks Scuba :)