Posse Comitatus Is Weak Enough - Unfortunately, So Are Our Politicians

Bumped: There's a discussion which seems destined to take place and I would suggest Americans pay attention to it, no matter how dry. With the President suggesting the Military be designated as first responders in dealing with natural disasters such as Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, there are several concepts critical to good government in play.

For an excellent plain English version of Posse Comitatus, see Major Craig T. Trebilcock's explanation of the Posse Comitatus Act and why this sacred cow isn't sacred anymore: The Myth of Posse Comitatus h/t Pundita - whom I will refer you to in a bit.

The intent of the act is to prevent the military forces of the United States from becoming a national police force or guardia civil. Accordingly, the act prohibits the use of the military to “execute the laws.” Execution of the laws is perceived to be a civilian police function, which includes the arrest and detention of criminal suspects, search and seizure activities, restriction of civilian movement through the use of blockades or checkpoints, gathering evidence for use in court, and the use of undercover personnel in civilian drug enforcement activities.

First of all, it's illogical to believe that the military can be first responders in most natural disaster situations, let alone most any successful terrorist attack. There are only two ways that would make any sense at all. 1) If every natural disaster or terrorist attack were completely predictable (they aren't) or, 2) if the military were stationed so thoroughly throughout the country that they could respond to any threat or disaster anywhere, at any time. That situation will never be. Consequently, the entire "first responder" notion is ludicrous.

Secondly, I agree with the President and others who are currently floating this balloon that the military, point by point, is absolutely the best we currently have to respond to incidents as per above. But that actually highlights the problem and should not point directly to a solution. The problem is the weakness of our government and our politicians.

As our mostly decentralized or local-controlled Civil Defense structure has broken down with the conclusion of the Cold War - we've come to look more and more to the Federal Government to respond to every threat, danger or disastrous act of nature - most specifically through FEMA. What we have learned is nothing new - the politics of nepotism, cronyism and patronage, always exacerbated the more grand in scale: IE the Federal versus the local level, for example - have left us with lazy, inefficient or sometimes even completely ineffective organizations lacking discipline, organization, or respect for any chain of command.

Witness the most recent problems with now UN Ambassador John R. Bolton, whose greatest offense might have been to expect loyalty and the meeting of expectations by a subordinate and to have raised his voice when he didn't get it. How dare he? Now, really, given that mindset, is it any wonder our large government bureaucracies don't work? Enter the military.

Yes, the military is likely the one remaining institution with any sense of discipline, efficient co-ordination and preparedness - which translates into the ability to do large-scale logistics - the verbiage most likely to be attached to this now expressed military need. I disagree with the Pentagon as savior here completely. The heart of the problem is with Federal bureaucracy, in this instance, FEMA which doesn't function as well as it could because it has been infected with our politics.

If we begin tossing away our civilian institutions because they are inadequate, instead of taking the demanding steps required to make them function effectively, one could eventually make that rationalization to do away with civilian government altogether. I'm not arguing a slippery slope here - though I'm sure many will. But it is the principle of the matter. If we abandon any hope for our civilian government to operate effectively at the Federal level and fail to shore up local governmental accountability and the possible re-kindling of some sense of a decentralized Civil Defense in co-operation with the National Guard, exempt from Posse Comitatus except when federalized, by the way - we won't be solving anything. We'll simply be sweeping the problem under the rug and institutionalizing failure.

We have a right to demand both as much local control of our affairs as practical - and we also have a right to demand some sense of efficiency and effectiveness from our civilian Federal government when circumstances warrant. Calling in the cavalry just now might sound like the easy fix and it most likely is. But it would both forfeit an opportunity to solve some of the complex problems facing Federal civilian government today and represent just one more dismal failure and an abdication of civil responsibility at a time of creeping Federalism the Founders never intended.

See Pundita for more.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[Cindi in PA]

Truth is, most don't give a damn about who is running their government. They go to the polls, pull a lever, republican, democrat, without even having a clue. Last presidential election, I worked in our county voters registration. I could not believe the number of voters calling prior to the election, asking who is our congressman, who is our legislator, what senatorial district am I in. I have to say however, the most informed voter were the new voters. Maybe that's a sign of things to come. Our young people are much more informed and involved in politics than ever before.

[Steel]

I am old enough to remember the Civil Defense organizations of the 50s.

You are absolutely right in this and it ties in with something I mentioned the other day ...

...mandatory national service for every citizen.

An aside here. In 1964, after the Alaskan Earthquake, it was civil defense orgs/civilians that were responsible for the rescue efforts and they did admirably.

Besides ALL this, I want my military to be warriors NOT candy stripers.

[GrannyToad]

In USA, judges are elected too (local and state judges and state supreme court), except for federal judges and the federal Supreme Court judges which are appointed by the President and must be approved by Congress..
Posted by: shonane | Sep 27, 2005 12:37:06 AM

Similar to 50 countries under one federal system, each State does that however it was worked out for each. Love that US Constitution - literally.

It is no wonder Aruba is cluefree about our American expectations of openness & public oversight over our LE and judiciary. They are there to serve and protect us for our tax dollars, not the other way about.

[GrannyToad]

He probably said something about being sorry he lied because it caused him to spend time in jail.

Most sociopaths somehow eventually turn it around to being all about them.
Posted by: ustt | Sep 27, 2005 12:37:55 AM

Exactly so. Unfortunately it's all about Joran to Joran, just as any 2-year-old and under.

He lied because he was "afraid". So Paul had a meeting by the poolside that very day Natalee was DISAPPEARED, Monday, to rehearse the alibi with the Kalpoes (and Steve Croes?) about dropping her off at the hotel &c. No corpse no case. Before her mother even got to Aruba. (Didn't even know her name, he said?) Oh, and according to his ex-GF had called a friend after school that afternoon to tell friend she was "missing".

[TheAlamo]

Truth is, most don't give a damn about who is running their government. They go to the polls, pull a lever, republican, democrat, without even having a clue. Last presidential election, I worked in our county voters registration. I could not believe the number of voters calling prior to the election, asking who is our congressman, who is our legislator, what senatorial district am I in. I have to say however, the most informed voter were the new voters. Maybe that's a sign of things to come. Our young people are much more informed and involved in politics than ever before.

Posted by: Cindi in PA | Sep 27, 2005 3:27:32 AM

I agree with you here. But I am not sure from where the problem arises. People no longer have an interest, or in many cases not a clue as to even the name of who is running, so they ask a friend or neighbor who they are voting for...and they do the same. But, is it just plain laziness, apathy, or do they feel their vote means nothing, since we seem to get the same ol, same ol, no matter which party is in office?
I would like to see all parties covered equally by the media. I think we are losing out on some potentially excellent representatives that may hold a different view from the status quo. We sure can see the results of demo-repub over and over again. I think we could use some fresh ideas and fresh leadership.

The posse comitatus situation while not yet "dire" could continue to escalate. I think the private sector has always responded in emergencies on an admiral basis, but it seems with Katrina, they were not allowed, and were, in fact turned back by federal agents.

This shows a lack of knowledge on the part of our electorate. State and local officials have the power in these situations and the federal side is there at their disposal. We have gotten things turned around backwards...and as Dan states above, we have seen negative results.

As for the worst case sencarios arising from abuse of posse comitatus, one need only to look at Waco...but it seems as if all have forgotten.

[farmgirl]

Dan ..keep this subject going..I think that its very important that people discuss this situation.

If Military is thefirst responder then one of these days..we will be under a dictator..its the way it happens..

National guard ok..but military not ok...on our soil..

CIA was supposed to be banned from activity on us soil..but with the blending of post 911 CIA and FBI its clouded and worrisome.

The military is another whole can of worms.

We need strong law enforcement on local levels..Strength at all levels from bottom up..not the top down.

[farmgirl]

Alomo I have not forgotten Waco..and few in Texas have.

To do a sound bite here..that was a case of a lesbian "proving she had balls"...and children were the victims.

Waco is still very much on our minds.

[IamRosie]

Local response to local/regional disasters makes sense as local/regional officials have a better and working knowledge of local requirements.

A Federal response would probably tend to be a "one-size-fits-all", which in reality fits few or none.

TheAlamo said it when he stated that we have things turned around backwards. It should be local first, Federal to assist when requested by local.

If the Federal First mentality continues we will see an ongoing march to full Federalization with the loss of local control.

[splashtc]

No military as first responders. The NO police officers who left their posts should be severely repremanded. They contributed to the state of anarchay. If you watch the 9/11 Deniro video by Jules and Gédéon Naudet an official says ...and call the military, I want the military here. Local LE should ask for the military. The locals in NO were just doopey. The people could have walked out - the back way.

[usmcmom]

We need strong law enforcement on local levels..Strength at all levels from bottom up..not the top down.

Posted by: farmgirl | Sep 27, 2005 9:44:46 AM

I agree. The disaster of Katrina shows how local and state officials must have a complete, firm working relationship. They also need to know how government 101 actually works and how the Feds are NOT an open pocket book for their personal state screwups. Nagin/Blanco wants the Feds in to pay for everything and rescue everyone, but then Nagin and Blanco want the say-so in calling the shots once the Feds/Military have stabilized everything... excuse me but this particular "dynamic-duo" is exactly how we got into this flippin mess in the first place. Folks in this country need to take a hard look at their city, county, and state emergency planns. If your local officials are not yet planning public forums on the issue of emergency planning, you need to call and ask why, especially those of us along the Gulf Coast.

As far as my view of the military, be very careful what you wish for!!! The active-duty US military does NOT belong in the national disaster management business and they should not be expected to come running and babysit ignorant state and local officials.

[TheAlamo]

Nagin/Blanco wants the Feds in to pay for everything and rescue everyone, but then Nagin and Blanco want the say-so in calling the shots once the Feds/Military have stabilized everything... excuse me but this particular "dynamic-duo" is exactly how we got into this flippin mess in the first place. Folks in this country need to take a hard look at their city, county, and state emergency planns.

Posted by: usmcmom | Sep 27, 2005 11:47:44 AM

USMCmom...first I guess that means you have a son in the marines...I hope he is okay!
But, I think I have to disagree with you in the above situation. From what I have read, the feds turned away all initial help because Blanco would not relinquish state soverignty in the situation. That would have been the catalyst for a discussion similar to this about posse comitatus, in that they could ahve declared martial law.
The sad thing is that most Americans do not know the difference in the actual blance of power, so when the feds come marching in, they just lock step and get in line. My thoughts are that this is probably what happend in N.O. I cannot imagine the consternation of the Wal-mart truck drivers that were turned back by the feds, in what turns out to be a power play, and one that cost people their lives.

Now, Blanco, is also responsbile in that she did not make the power play a much larger public issue. She could have, and should been the person in charge of the feds in that state. That is how our government is set up. Bush would actually be secondary to the governor in that situation.
Why?
Well you can see why....the exact discussion we are having about posse comitatus and federal involvement in general. The founders of this nation knew all too well what happens when central government becomes too powerful, and we have seen with Waco, the possible first fruits of that, and Katrina the same, though on a much lesser "shock" scale.

[usmcmom]

Posted by: TheAlamo | Sep 27, 2005 1:32:54 PM

Hey Alamo,
As usual, I didn't explain myself well :-) I agree with you... I don't want the Feds running the show either. I guess the problem I have in this particular situation is that Blanco seemingly is using the national offices of DHS & FEMA as political scapegoats for her state DHS and LEMA office screw-ups. That is one of the reasons I don't want her or Nagin making decisions about my Fed tax dollars. As an Alabama resident I can't tell Louisiana how to vote, but I can tell my AL State Senators & Congressman that I don't want my Fed tax dollars under Blanco/Nagin's direction b/c they have shown me that they are incompetent and can't be trusted. This to me is the national issue that needs to be addressed by all of us. If AL,MS, & TX can run their local/state disaster efforts with "support" from the Feds, why can't LA?? Why does LA need such an overwhelming Fed presence. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for... Well the residents of LA got the leadership they elected, and specifically b/c that leadership is incompetent people died. I know I sound extremely cold, but IMO that is the honest truth to this situation.

Bottom line the Feds are not supposed to save the day everytime there is a "natural disaster"....Contrary to Congressman Charlie Rangel Hurricane Katrina was NOT a "National Disaster", it was a LA disaster b/c of bad leadership ....9/11 is the litmus test for a a "National Disaster" where Federal response would be appropriate.

The Feds are to protect us against "foreign" bad guys, build interstates, and create a few federal regs from time to time... Let the states take care of the states. If we elect incompetent state and local leaders, so be it...it's our problem not the Nations'... and to make it a federal issue IMO is opening up pandora's box.

[TheAlamo]

If AL,MS, & TX can run their local/state disaster efforts with "support" from the Feds, why can't LA??

Posted by: usmcmom | Sep 27, 2005 2:51:22 PM

You know usmcmom, you just caused a thought to enter my mind, that MAY have something to do with this.

AL, MS and TX fall under different jurisdictional laws than does LA. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think so,...but their state laws emulate from French law while all of the rest of the states are from an English basis and common law.
I am in no way qualified to judge on this point of fact, but possibly due to the conflicts in their laws, maybe the feds were trying to pull a fast one? They haven't even tried the stuff in MS, AL or TX (at least to my knowledge) that they tried in LA.
Don't know enough to even venture a guess, but it might have some impact.

I occaisionally get a thought...now and then. :)
BTW..is your son state side or "over there?"

[TheAlamo]

CIA was supposed to be banned from activity on us soil..but with the blending of post 911 CIA and FBI its clouded and worrisome.

The military is another whole can of worms.

We need strong law enforcement on local levels..Strength at all levels from bottom up..not the top down.

Posted by: farmgirl | Sep 27, 2005 9:44:46 AM

You know more than most farm girls I know of!
Not only have the CIA FBI been "merged", the entire police forces of all the states must now answer to federal jurisdiction, courtesy...the "patriot" act...

Talk about ripe for a dictatorship? Don't think we will see that in the Adolph Hitler type of mode. They are just as happy convincing people that the congress and supreme courts are "protecting" us from executive encroachment, when, executive orders gives him defacto dictatorial powers.
But...they are getting away with totally trashing the Constitution anyway..and for those who don't care about that (not you, but in general)
my question is just what IS a dictatorship when your own government disobeys and trashes its own set of guidelines?

[usmcmom]

I occaisionally get a thought...now and then. :)
BTW..is your son state side or "over there?"

Posted by: TheAlamo | Sep 27, 2005 4:17:58 PM

LOL, I know my "thoughts" seem to be coming further and further apart these days, but your "thought" about LA jurisdictional aspect is what I would call an Ah-ha moment... I remember hearing Shep Smith speak to this issue early on, and it seemed that from his reporting it was the basis for alot of problems between the state/local officials... Son is stateside and with the Grace of God will remain there, much to his chagrin.