Hurricane Katrina Discussion Thread 2

This thread is for discussion of Hurricane Katrina and related information.

Comments

[katy]

What are the looters thinking? The whole city of NO is expected to be without water, etc for weeks or months and they want to evacuate everyone. Do these people think they will be able to take the plasma TVs etc with them? There won't be any electricity to use them before they are evacuated and their homes will be searched for bodies while they are gone

[GrannyToad]

What I've read about the 1906 San Francisco fire, the 1900 Galveston hurrican, it's not like this or those histories left something out.

I'm aghast. Beyond words.

[isabell]

I hate to say it, but New Orleans was a shit hole before this as far as crime and pollution go. Everytime I have been there it is always dirty from tourists partying. The crime rate has always been one of the highest in the nation. The murder rate is the either the highest or very close to it in the US. It is just sad that innocent victims have to suffer just that much more because of the low lifes who are taking advantage of a bad situation

[katy]

Will New Orleans be rebuilt? Would you be involved if you were an insurance company? Where will all these people relocate? What a mess.

[sleepy]

Granny - Not sure what you mean by that, but I have a book that was published shortly after the Galveston Flood by someone that was in it. Unfortunately it did get a lost worse. There are two examples that remain clearly in my mind, a level to which you would think a human would not go. After I get son to school and see what else I can do for the flood victims, I will get the title of the book for you.

[ev]

The people that are looting were degenerates before the Hurricane. The Hurricane just gave them an excuse to go on a crime spree. The people who made there way out of New Orleans and the people who went to the Superdome are the decent people of New Orleans.

The should look at the tapes and arrest each and everyone of them.

In Thailand during the Tsunami no one was acting like that I think it was much easier for people to give money towards there cause, because we did not see people robbing stores and there neighbors.

[Just Somebody's Grandma]

I live in North Louisiana, lived in New Orleans for 3 years, 2 of my children were born at Baptist Hospital on Napoleon Avenue. I was so glad to move from there, at times it was a really scary place. As I look at the news, on all the news networks I can't help but notice that it seems IMO that the people who didn't get out of the city when ordered to....for whatever reason....are the very ones who are looting and causing trouble. The people who are cursing and yelling at camera crews because they need help, are the ones that have been seen causing the trouble after the storm. Has anyone else noticed this? Perhaps anyone with bags of goodies and loot that was stolen from the shops and stores in the City should be left in the city and not taken to the Astrodome or to a shelter where it is clean and dry. Maybe they should be told leave the stolen goods if you want to get on the bus for Houston, or just stay in New Orleans and suffer. Sorry if this comes across harsh, but I'm an old lady and I'm just calling it as I see it.

[toothfairy]

Morning all,

I have a very difficult time seeing the coverage from NO and feeling too sorry for these people. They were told ummm AT LEAST 24 hours ahead to evacuate. They chose not to. It wasn't like the Tsunami where those people didn't have a chance or a choice.
My heart goes out to the children. They couldn't make choices, their parents did.
I hope I don't come off as being harsh. I do much charity work in my area.
GOD gives us free will to choose as we decide, then we have to live with it. JMHO

[Hydrangea]

I'm aghast. Beyond words.

Posted by: GrannyToad

Me too. I'm not often left completely speechless.

[moosetracks]

Could someone tell me if New Orleans has a large illegal alien population? If so, are they the main looters?

[Just Somebody's Grandma]

New Orleans is a port city and there are a lot of different races there. How legal there are, I have no idea, if there are an alien, I have no idea, but lots of colors, races, and different classes live there. I still do not find that as an excuse to make difficult times even worse. I'm glad to see more National Guard going in there. I have a brother in Slidell, his wife is a nurse and they who is "chomping at the bit" to go home, and worry about him. Hopefully he can get there without going directly through New Orleans.

[sleepy]

Tooth and Gran - With regret in my heart I have to agree with you. I spent all day yesterday going thru everything I own, I packed my trunk full of items to take to a Red Cross shelter at a church, I spoke to the man in charge before choosing what to take.

I took hygene items, dental items, books, games, videos for the kids, toys, dolls, stuffed animals, baby blankets, food, a huge amount of paper, pencils, note books, memo pads, art and craft supplies, soap, shampoo, deodorant. I went overboard on paper and pencil products figuring the kids would need them for school, for drawing and the parents for notes on FEMA info, etc.

Much to my dismay by the time I got there several hours later, I saw that they had already received huge donations but mostly all clothing and shoes. They had it all in a huge pile in the parking lot all mixed together. No one attempted to even keep pairs of shoes together, or sort the clothing in any manner, if it rains, all of that will turn into trash!

This pile must have been 15 wide and 4 feet high. The shelter had been open less than 24 hours and was at capacity and closed to accepting anyone else. There were 200+ refugees there. I understand what they have been thru, however, it sure seems to me that more of an effort could/should have been made to sort these donations as they came in, folded neatly and separated by male, female, boy, girl and shoes all placed together in one area with their mates. If you found one shoe it would take hours to sort thru all that mess to find another one.

I found someone in charge and at first was told to put all my stuff in the pile too. I had clean bedding they said to throw on the heap!!! I told them what I had, then they told me to put all of my bags and boxes by their door. Is it expecting too much for some people to show the least amount of reliance by respecting the donations enuf to sort them so that it is possible to find and use things? I just don't mean the church volunteers either, I mean the refugees...over all, with regret, it left me thinking that it is that Me, Me, Me attitude, they expect all and are willing to put out no effort to help themselves. I would think boredom alone would cause me to get after that stack of donations!

Needless to say, I feel that I have done as much as I can do for the masses. I am now working on the refugee children that are registering at my son's school, I was able to take care of their school supply needs this morning for the two that registered yesterday, so far, there will be 3 more today, I will take care of their supplies too.

These poor souls have been through so much, it is too bad that the wicked and lazy and complaining ones will affect other's generosity in the long haul.

[aoife24]

Ok Ive just heard that shots have been fird by looters at a resuce helicopter trying to get people out of the superdome....what kind if people are these down there, its a disgrace, people are dying, are hungry, need sleep and food and shelter. Who would shoot people trying to rescue you.

I was in New Orleans on vacation this time last year and it was one of my favourite places I have visited in the USA. Its distressing to see the stateof it now and all the people homeless, but they seriously need to restore order down there and lock up these people who are harming rescue efforts.

When the tsunami hit SE Asia last Dec you did not see people shooting at the guys rescuing them, I just cannot fathom the mentality of these people. Its disgusting that we have evil like this in society. People need to help one another through this diffucult time not help themselves...to vcr's, plasma tv screens etc. Where do they propose to put them, theres no homes, no electricity, its just stupid.

Watching the news last night and these looters being interviewed it was like it was their god given right to steal and loot because they have been so hard done by!!!????

I mean if you have that attitude you will get no where in life, and they obviously have not. Yes, people need to eat and drink but taking dvd players, and other high tech equipment is not a need , its greed. This is not a time for greed its a time for survival.

[sleepy]

Moose - It does not appear that the evildoers are illegal aliens, at least from the footage I have seen. It seems to be the ugly underbelly of the local population, who imho deserve either to remain in NO after everyone else has been evacuated to enjoy their temporary earthly custody of their ill gotten gains, or perhaps a bullet to the head. It infuriates me that any of them would shoot at the choppers or highjack at gunpoint the aide trucks.

[aoife24]

toothfairy, you are so right...these people should have evacuated, epsecially those with children. I know some could not afford too but they had the option of going to the shelters. This would have been alot better then staying in your home and being stuck and your roof and in the attic. Its going to get worse and worse over the next few weeks. disease will spread. I remember last year dring the tsunami it was reported 600 died and the number grew and grew and grew to 260,000! I know this is not on that scale, but the death toll will continue to mount.

[aoife24]

moose - its fairly obvious its the local population, not illegal aliens !! why do people always try yo blame it on outsiders when you sometimes need to look in your own back garden other then looking to put the blame on others!!its a shame people think this way.

[bhm mom too]

Will New Orleans be rebuilt? Would you be involved if you were an insurance company? Where will all these people relocate? What a mess.

Posted by: katy | Sep 1, 2005 9:07:56 AM

I have wondered that as well. And if there is no insurance, banks will not lend money. I can't imagine an insurance company would take the risk again. New Orleans could get hit again next week, or next year.It would be nice if the southern cities--or any cities I guess--to take a certain number of people and relocate them, find them jobs etc. It seems each area could have capacity to absorb some.

[Karen]

Got word at 4 pm yesterday that a friend in Ocean Springs MS was OK. A widow in her 80s, partially deaf, rode out the storm in her house. Neighbor with cell phone called her daughter to say she was OK. We feared the worst, seeing the destruction in nearby Gulfport and Biloxi MS. Daughter and her husband driving down from PA (18+ hours) to get her and bring her to their home. Even for people with little damage to their homes, they can't really stay without electricity, water, etc. and the stores aren't likely to be open for weeks either.
Regarding those who stayed. Some are like my friend, who couldn't drive at night and couldn't just get on the highway and go. Her house sustained only minor damage in the hurricanes last year, so she thought she'd be OK (her house was built after Camille (post-1969)). Others feared that their homes would be looted if they left, so they stayed at their own peril. However, I wonder why in New Orleans the govt. didn't just send buses around to neighborhoods and FORCEABLY evacuate people who wouldn't leave and take them to shelters further inland. I guess hindsight is always 20-20, but NO should have known that the Superdome would only be good for a temporary shelter.

[DeeDee]

Worse than sad are the GNO media clips of looting, they are a disgrace to our nation. Family connection in Alexandria, La said they recieved over 2500 refugees yesterday and are housing in a government facility. Usually the city of Alexandria has approximately 15 car jackings on an average night. Last night they had over 40. Also, one report this morning of a child being raped at the facility last night.

[overthere]

I feel for the people who could not leave for various reasons. I do think all of this should make everyone think about where they live and the risk they take. If you choose to live on the coast, you are taking a risk that a storm will wipe you out. I've heard interviews where people say they will go right back becasue they love the coast. I think if you have the funds to live there and rebuild on your own if you are wiped out that is fine. but if you are going to want federal funding if you go back, I have to ask how far society should go in supporting people who make choices like this. Is Los Angeles the next disaster we are looking at when the big one hits them. I wouldn't want to live there.

[DeeDee]

Karen the Mayor of N.O. did send city buses for two days through out the city requesting all to please take shelter in the dome or leave the city. They did try scare people into seeking shelter but this is still America. You cannot force an individual to leave their private property unless they violate the law. The drug runners, thieves and criminals who are trying to control the city now should be apprehended and held at Guantanimo Bay. They are hindering rescue operations of innocent hospital patients who had no choice.

[saddened]

Fox News reported that a private bus, governmental employees funded, sent to rescue hospital victims was overtaken by BellSouth employees and hospital victims were left floor space only to occupy. OMG

[Dan]

The MO. Air NG The 131st, has been activated and will be sent to the Gulf States. They are on standby waiting their final orders. The Sgt. Major I know has been trained for EMT by the guard. Also, St.Louis University, has said it will take Loyola U. students, will accept all transcripts,finanacial aid,etc. for the students, as they do not know when Loyola will open.

[Just Somebody's Grandma]

I'm glad to see that some of "yall" are seeing what I see when I look at the footage of New Orleans, the looters, thugs, destruction etc.... I'm in the process of loading my trunk with diapers, baby supplies, baby food, school supplies for the kids that are going to start school here and things for the children. These are the innocent victims who were depending on adults to keep them safem warm and out of harms way. I hear that in the shelters in N.Louisiana the needs are more for the children, and infants than adults. I have a closet full of clothes 4 sizes to big since I've lost 55 lbs, but I think they will stay there for a while rather than go in a heap in the parking lot. One day they will belong to someone who appreciates assistance, not expect assistance.

[Kathleen]

local news is reporting that there are now officers armed with shotguns standing on the streets of Baton Rouge. This is due to the criminal activities of some of the refugees. This is beyond pathetic.

[sleepy]

Kathleen - it sure is. I don't understand when martial law was declared in NO what precisely they meant. If that meant the were now permitted to shoot to kill those that are threatening others or looting or shooting at any of the workers, why that hasn't been done. It would sure slow down some of this nonsense, it seems the slimy slugs of the world count of the 'fairness' of their countrymen to let them pursue their renegade activities.

[ev]

It's quite disgusting if you ask me that the prisioners were held on a highway and had first dibs on getting out. It also quite disgusting that people are stealing TV, Radio, DVD's etc. I would like to know where are they going to plug them in. There is no electricity and won't be for another few weeks. What has gotten into those people I feel bad for the hard working people of New Orleans who were not able to make it out before the Hurricane. Watching this on TV makes you sick to your stomach it could happen to anyone. But watching the criminals makes me angry that should be taken care of by the military round them up and put them away that have not business stealing.

[Kathleen]

unbelieveable! this is happening in the downtown area of BR near the River Center shelter...city employees are also being evacuated from the area, and told not to return until Tuesday.

Baton Rouge was gracious enough to invite them in, give them shelter and food, and this is the gratitude that is being returned? What the hell is wrong with some of those people??

[Anna]

New Orleans has a HUGE ethnic polulation comprised of both legal and illegal immigrants as well as many other diverse minorities. I am not defending their activities but they do not know what is happening. For three days now, they do not know what is going to happen to them. Revert to survival of the fittest mentality. They think it is the end of the world, literally.

Things are bad enough, let's not pile on the negativity. If you hated NO before, this is not the time to point out that. I loved it and some of the smell was due to so many refineries that other places refuse to allow to be built in their pristine atmosphere.

NO has always been filled with poverty and crime it is true but also one of the richest cultures of any city in the world, much of which had become unique. How long since you have seen a Jazz Funeral or eaten some of the best ever gumbo off a street vender?

C'mon, people, have a heart. Yes, it is awful the looters but the military will have to get order and when the tide changes, do not be surprised to see the water rising again.

San Antonio is taking 25,000 MORE refugees after Houston too the 25,000 first ones. Good for TEXAS! Instead of smearing NO, how about sending your EMT's, LE, what National Guard available and utility linemen. We need to also get word to them what is happening in Spanish and also in French for the Cajuns who do not speak English well, etc. Bull horn messages to large crowds, etc. Some way for them to know rescue efforts are on the way for they see none. Three days now and they still do not know where their next meal or drink of water is going to come from. I would steal to feed my kids and you probably would, too, and I might think I could sell a DVD player for water if I had to.

Pray for them and send help but let's try to be kind in our judgment because it is going to get much worse than it is now. Save it for later for if you think this is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. The military will probably end up going in and dealing with hardcore underbelly in a total military operation but let's not lump all the looters together, some want food. It is going to be a nightmare police state with total military operation to take back certain sections. They will never leave voluntarily and will either be shot or carried out. Bloodbath on top of disaster so please pray. Add some good 'vibes' instead of bad, enough of those already.

Does anybody know the condition of the Vietnamese sector and where to look for survivors registered from there? How high elevation does that section have and in what part of town is it located? Also Tulane students, anybody know what happened to them? I assume they evacuated but do not know this for a fact.

Also, where is the official death count being recorded? Is MS still at 110?

[sam]

Now the evacuation cannot be done because of maurauding gunmen shooting at helicopters and at rescue boats.

Why are there not army paratroopers (or armored military helicopters) taking these guys out?

Why doesn't Jesse Jackson go in there and try to negotiate with these lawless gangs?

[sleepy]

Granny - It is just a CESSPOOL there!

;)

(We finally found her cesspool)

[aoife24]

its really really unbelieveable that these guys are getting away with this!! I dont agree with the death penalty but if these guys are going to act like savages in a time like this, I think they should get their hands chopped off...they wont do it again then. I'm just shocked by this. I really am, the army need to get in there asap and stop this. anyone shooting at rescue worled and helicopters should be shot on sight. I never thought id here myself say that but this is the most outragous behaviour I have ever in my life heard of. I hear of this in the 3rd world war torn coutries of africa like Sierra Leone and Cote D'ivoire and Republic of Congo but not downtown New Orleans in the most develpoed country in the world where people are supposed to be civilised!!! its shocking

[bethany]

I can't believe how much coverage fellow bloggers give to the looters. They are a small part of the bigger picture. Come on folks! Look at the other aspects that need much more of our attention. As for the 100,000 folks left in New Orleans to ride out the storm, many of them COULD NOT get to the dome or get themselves out of the city, for many reasons: money (a principal reason), failure to understand or hear directives, inability to know what and how to do (many are poor, uneducated, mentally disabled, or etc.), unable to leave without help because of medical disability or unable to leave because of someone in the household with medical disability, and a myriad of other reasons that I have heard given through the media. Whatever reason, including disregard or refusal to leave, when a category 5 hurricane which is huge enough to cover a size equal to the whole shore line from Florida to LA is bearing down on the citizenry, the feds and state should respond by a massive effort to get people out including putting handcuffs on and forceably removing those who just want to "ride the storm out". On Friday night, three days before the storm, my cousin and I were talking on the phone and he was telling me that there was a report of the possibility of a 20-25 foot storm surge slamming against the shorelines if the storm continued as was (a prediction that did come true). We were talking, then, about the horrendously frightening consequences of something like that. Go figure. It is too late to re-do but I feel strongly that the authorities failed the people of those states by not providing massive effort in transporting people out over last weekend. Now, instead of deriding those who are left, have a little compassion for their plight.

[sleepy]

"I can't believe how much coverage fellow bloggers give to the looters. They are a small part of the bigger picture."

Bethany - Sorry to say, I don't think you see this clearly. From where I sit, that is of all importance just now. The looters looted stores that have weapons, and they are using them to interfere in the safe rescue and transport of those who need help. They are directly preventing those in great need from being bused out of town to safe havens where they can get all the assistance they need.

[farmgirl]

I don't blame Bush..so get that on record..

BUT and there's the crunch word: BUT FEMA was set up to step in for emergencies, disasters (we thought it would be terroist attacks) and all the power and money was given to them to set up.

I never dreamed thta they set up a system where they thought it was OK that under that system it would take six to eight days to get aid to the people who need it.

WE needed a system that was on the ground and ready to go as soon as the storm hit.

I listen to the head of FEMA giving excuses..but I still think..hey man..we depended on your to be ready to give aid asap. and six days later is not good enough.

This is a disaster and we are all going to learn from it..we will be prepared next time..I know here in my community we will have a system to reach out for the help we will need so the rest of us can be ready ad know where and what we need to do to help.

But we made the mistake of depending on "big government agency" to be there when our people needed it.

We have emergency workers on the ground IN New Orleans risking their lives to get people out and so far without much support from FEMA.

I do not want one more young police officer injured or killed doing this hopeless job.

When this is all settled and looked at.. are we going to have to face that the bureaucrats in charge of keeping the leevees and pump stations up to date and in good working order have not done their jobs.

Its going to be up to the people like us to help on our local levels when we find out who needs the help.

[aoife24]

We wouldnt have to give so much coverage to the looters if they werent harming the rescue procedure!!! They are the ones that are causing us to talk about this. The reson we are talking about it is because its disgusting behaviuor and we are all appalled! I love new orleans iwth all my heart in fact I was due to go there this weekend for labor day. I was there this time last year too. Its such an amazing city with amazing people but the bad few are shocking not just the nation but the world....as soon as they are under control the better then rescue and relief missions can start and new orleans can begin to re-build itself.

[Kathleen]

I can't believe how much coverage fellow bloggers give to the looters. They are a small part of the bigger picture...(snipped)

Posted by: bethany | Sep 1, 2005 12:26:16 PM

Bethany, they are not such a "small part of the bigger picture" when they are HINDERING RESCUE EFFORTS! I take it that you do not live here, nor do you have relatives that lived in the New Orleans area and you don't know whether they got out or not. As for those that are out and in Baton Rouge and are doing the very same CRIMINAL activity, what is YOUR EXCUSE for them???

Am I upset, you bet I am..as I DO have relatives that I have NOT heard from yet.

[aoife24]

bethany....the govenor of lousiana said she was very disapointed at the airlines for pulling out of NO and cancelling all flights on saturday, she asked them not to do so until sunday midday but they said no...she said thousands more could have gotton out of the city if they had not done this. So I do not think the authroities should be blamed for not trying their best...they asked the airlines to stay a few hours more but they refused.

[TexasGal]

Anna-I agree with your post 110%. Very well said.

[farmgirl]

My military husband was in a lot of messes over his career...Looters were shot..period end of story..not by military but by civilian authorities wehrever these thengs were hapening..

No questions asked..

I hate to see military on ground in USA..wish the National Guard was the ones on ground..but whatever it takes to get those children and old ones and sick ones to safety I am for doing.

And No..not looking forward to having 30,000 people brought to Texas in a lump...

Big signs were up at civic cnter..NO weapons..

this is just becoming more of a horror story.

I think regular programing should be curtailed and 24/7 coverage on this with a spot light til we are sure everyone is safe...

the very idea of watching as the world turns while people are dying just 200 miles away.

[farmgirl]

I had one friend tell me..well those people shoud have had a weeks supply of water, medicines and food stored away.

My comment and with an edge: ok where you going to store that stuff that you will have it if your WHOLE town is disappeared? Like, that closet you kept it in is gone with the rest of your neighborhood..

We simply have to help Mississippi and the rest of the gulf coast people to cope.

The NO mess: different problem altogether...

Look at the pictures..

[farmgirl]

Sorry guys..My nerves are frayed to say the least..I shorter tempered then usual and more caustic.

Yesterday was heart rending and it was with two groups that are very well taken care of and safe..but it was still so emotional.

[want to help]

I posted yesterday about how I could offer a place for those displaced by Hurricane Katrina.
I received excellent help and advice from this blog.
Thank you.
If you know anybody who would benefit from my offer please pass the word along.
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/roo/94787649.html

[farmgirl]

I jsut got a book off shelf...Historical land marks of New Orleans..it even has some that were not saved from the 60's in it before the Historical Society got so active..

Its all gone now..Iremember I nearly didn't spend the $68 for the book..now so glad I did.

And my pictures from Mardi Gras past...treasures now. My house on Bell Street...with me as a skinny 118 pounder on the steps..treasures.

[TexasGal]

Sorry guys..My nerves are frayed to say the least..I shorter tempered then usual and more caustic.

Posted by: farmgirl
I know exactly what you mean. My eyes burn from being open so much in the past 2 days. I am exhausted but I will not stop until I know that I have done everything in my power to help out how I can.

[bhm mom too]

some reporter on one of the cable channels was trying to direct the story on NO into one of cricisim for lack of preparedness. the Senator from LA was one and said there would be time for criticism later. right now we need to focus on rescue. Great statement.

Also, as far as the looting. Guns etc are frightening for them to have. really frightening. However, those looting walmart etc for food and clothing, I don't think you can blame them. They are trying to survive. The one with the big screen tv. What was he thinking. And the police officers (female) who were looting. that was horrible.

[LookRealHard]

Well we all seem to agree, there are two types of looting, some people looting for food and water, others looting for guns, TV's, beer. Hmm ... I just hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are watching the news.

[calista]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

this article is heartbreaking - it is just chaos - a man shot his siter in the head over a bag of ice - that is how desperate these people are.......there are people with babies and no food for them.....it is just stunning - it seems even donating does not help because no agaency can get in there with the food and supplies these people need for fear of being shot at or attacked........it is just heartbreaking

[calista]

new orleans police chief ordered officers to halt search and rescue and instead focus on looters.......I don't understand that - I know some of them are turning violent and that needs to stop but to halt search and rescue? who cares about some tv's go find the poor people trapped out there

[NewReader]

WHY, oh why, isn't the government flying planes or helicopters overhead and dropping food? We did it in Iraq. Rations and water. Have those people at the Convention Center had ANY food since this happened? even if it's difficult to reach them by auto, food can be dropped from the air. This is ridiculous and I can't stand watching it from afar while the gov't holds meetings.