Framing A Potential Debate

Jeff Goldstein has some thoughts on the debate which might evolve from Kanye West's comments on NBC this evening. He says, "Bring it on."

I can't say as I disagree - but I don't see the other side wanting to have an honest debate on the subject - I don't believe they'll win. Maybe noone will. But, maybe it is time to have it and see.

Here's another excellent question, from the Pundit Guy, that's fair to ask, given some of the unfortunate rhetoric we've been hearing lately - Why?

How long must we continue to roll over to what even Bill Cosby acknowledges as a dangerous influence within both the Black community and the rest of the culture, as well.

Update: NoSpeedBumps has some good thoughts.

Comments

[angelaberdine]

How long must we continue to roll over to what even Bill Cosby acknowledges as a dangerous influence within both the Black community and the rest of the culture, as well.

Posted by Dan in Politics | Permalink

They will silence the Bill Cosbys and Thomas Sowells, Walter Williamses and others as long as the Rainbow Coalition can operate in the dark with disregard to RICO laws.

[Liddy Dole]

I am pleased the Natalee Holloway case will soon be off the media spotlight so I don't have to read this ridiculous right-wing site anymore.

[Bullgator]

The amount of human suffering experienced by those in New Orleans dwarfs anything our country has ever experienced. To focus on race in an attempt to make political hay out of this is utterly despicable.

[FloridaPatty]

Those human failings, irresponsible and anti-social behaviors that once brought consequences in the community - shame, ostracization, and deserved personal deprivation - are today excused, assigned new and neutral nomenclature (all the better for medical diagnosis), prescribed “tolerance”, and if possible, assigned the politics of race or class, so that collective guilt may be mined to ensure that self-destructive behavior gains not only acceptance, but state funding.

The predatory violence and anarchy befalling New Orleans is not the result of a freak convergence of forces brought on by unnatural disaster.

BRAVO!
Excellent blog.

Thanks Dan.

[Bev]

I say put the blame where it lies. What has happened in this country that people no longer feel they have the right to speak up about a president. Do we have to be afraid to say we just have a poor leader? It's obvious to everybody that people surely feel opressed, is Sadam running our country? We do still have freedom of speach don't we!

And sure race is an issue, in that some white people (not all) won't feel the compassion unless they are looking at white faces. And I include the president in that group. He's SHOW business as usual.

1. He has the power to confiscate ships into commission. I'm sure the USA has more then just war ships.
2. I see convoys taking relief and personel into New Orleans, why don't these same convoys leave with some people. For Gods sakes. They don't care what they ride out on, they just want to get back to some human conditions, e.g., beds, tables, and toilets.

If he were capable of relating to what these people felt he would be 'thinking' of every way possible. All he did was nod his head and talk about the future. I wanted to tell him that "We're not at that bridge yet Mr. Pres". He didn't interject one single usefull idea when he was presented the facts. He had his sleeves rolled up though, HA HA! He's a joke! OH Yeah! And he can be quoted as saying "it's unacceptable". The press says he comforted those couple of ladies, we saw him. He touched those ladies like he was (forced to) touching rats.

Careful what you reply. I'm probably going to jail. What's that about!

[just an observer]

Our President has had to deal with the worse disasters to ever hit our country and for this to be called a racial divide is ridiculous, the national guard wasn't able to help and assist because they were being shot at not because the didn't care!

These black leaders and the MSM are just adding fuel to the fire. They all are making America and Americans look weak and petty. What the media and the black leaders are doing is not helping anyone!!

[moosetracks]

Just an observer,
I agree. Right from the first, Bush had world problems facing him. First China kept our plane, then because of Clinton's lack of action on terrorists.....well....

The Gov. of La. and the New Orleans mayor have much of the blame for the lack of their people getting out. Many school buses are in the flood waters, why didn't they use them before the storm hit, to get out the people?
La. had no plan, and they knew that in 2004 during a practice session.

The Blacks usually vote for Dems., what have the Dems done to help their voters? They have kept them poor, they do not make sure they stay in school to get an education to be sure they are self sufficient.

Bill Cosby is right on target, but some of them don't want to hear that.

There are lots of poor whites too...head to W.Va., Ky., Ohio,etc. Maybe we need to enforce laws that it is a crime if one drops out of school.

Our country will be a shell of what it used to be if we don't get these people educated. IMO, people educated in the 1800's and early 1900's were more educated than they are now. At least they knew grammar and how to spell, math, etc.

Let's kick out all illegals that are putting a drain on our taxes, and take care of our own people.

[moosetracks]

The rappers give me a pain....most are just thugs. And that's who they kids look up to!

[Mike R.]

ROTFLMAO at Jesse Jackson.
He wants to know why the Bush administration has not appointed any blacks to leadership roles in the relief effort.At this time I dont think anyone cares what color the people are who are offering help,well except the fatcat blacks who are voicing outrage as it gives them a platform to continue their charges of racism.

The fact is Jesse my BOY nearly all of the officials in N.O. are black and have failed miserably at their jobs and now you want to accuse people of not allowing blacks to participate.How about this Jesse?How about you use some of the millions of dollars that you have rat holed (yes the millions that you have stolen from your own race) and send some rainbow colored buses to N.O. and stop along the way at the shelters and pick up those able bodied men and take the back to N.O. and let them begin to clean up their own city.

Jesse and others who have given press conferences get off your asses and go help those you profess to represent,you lazy worthless bastards.

[Pearl]

First of all, I'm not Republicaqn nor Democrat. I vote for the person who I think will get the job done. I voted for Bush the first time, not the second. I would like to address the "racial injustice" issue that is developing regarding the deplorable conditions in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina. I live in an area that has an extremely high population of people relying upon the government to provide for their every need: welfare checks, SSI, food stamps, public housing, heat bill programs, WIC vouchers, Medicaid. Many of the people get ALL of these benefits. Skin color doesn't seem to matter because we have all races participating in my area. I also work in a place where one has the opportunity to try and urge these people to better be able to provide for themselves. Some of these people do not want to learn a trade, get an education, or do anything to interfere with their "entitlements." Many people in my community who get these entitlements also work and send their money to another country. What I'm trying to say is that many people who suffer in a natural disaster have made choices that place them in the path of that disaster. Am I saying that all of the victims of Katrina in New Orleans placed themselves in the path of a hurricane? No, I am not. What I am saying is that some of these people most likely had the opportunity to better prepare themselves to cope with a disaster and did not do so. My opinion is that if the government were more sparing with our money when funding these ever hungry "entitlements", people would have to take responsibility for themselves. There are those who believe that there aren't enough jobs to support the American working public. My opinion is the jobs are there. The jobs might not be what someone "wants" to do or involve a salary someone "wants" to earn. I think it is time that ALL American people realize that all people sometimes have to do things they do not want to do. I do not want to work and pay taxes that allow another person to benefit so much from my labor. I work because I have to. Shouldn't all people have to work to provide for themselves? I realize my opinion is probably not going to be popular with a lot of readers. That's what is so great about our USA. I do get the "entitlement" of free speech.

[Mike R.]

Pearl,
Whether your comments are popular or not it is reality.

Too many folks just wait for freebies.So yes perhaps the working taxpayers in N.O. should be rescued first so they can hurry up and find employment in other areas so they can pay taxes so the freeloaders want have to take a paycut from the disruption of collected tax dollars.Oh I can hear Jesse Jackson now saying what an injustice a reduction in FREE benefits is.

It is not possible to satisfy the freeloaders as they will always complain and expect more.I have no problem with the government taking care of people who really need it.But there are far more receiving and bilking the system than those who truly need it.

Can anyone answer why elderly people have to choose between food and medicine on a daily basis while able bodied people are receiving monthly checks????

It is sad that people work all their lives and cant receive medicine every month while undeserving folks receive monthly checks and every other freebie because they were taught to do so as a way of life.It just pisses me off to no end.

[Cindi in PA]

The Je$$ie Jack$ons,Al $harpton's,Kanye We$t's of the world, are not interested in making life better for "blacks," if anything they continue to promote racism. I have to almost laugh, Jack$on can take off for Venezuela to promote peace between two countries, comes home and tries to cause division between Americans. Their agenda is clear, continued dependence on government. I doubt that promoting racism is what Rev. King had in mind when he said "I had a dream." As with children, if you desire to make life better for them, you teach them how to achieve that. These clown's are nowhere to be found when it really matters.

[MarlboroGal]

Well said, Cindi!

[Queebo]

Any smart liberal, conservative, or middle-of-the-roader will stand well-clear of this one, Dan. Who gives a rats-frickin'-patootie about the remarks of some thug rapper? If you want to promote a debate, I suggest doing so over something much more meaningful.

[flower girl]

I am sick to death of Americans who hate America. Go live somewhere else if it's so bad. Can't we just all work together and get along? We ALL have to work. We all have to help. We ALL sink or fail together. Give it a rest.

[clintcarter]

With regard to the picture of school buses swamped, I posted these questions at the Pundit Guy site:

Just so I'm clear:
The mayor should have moved the school buses out of New Orleans prior to the hurricane's arrival?

And if he HAD moved the buses out of the city, he should NOT have brought them back to the city after the hurricane had passed?

Given the amount of attention this picture is getting, what WAS the Mayor to have done with the city's school buses that would have spared them from the flood and made them available to be the ONLY way out of town for many people?

Anyone?

[Mike R]

Clint Carter,

It is real simple the mayor should have used the buses and if folks refused to get on the buses then he could have at least used them to take the tourist out of the city like the ones he let go to the front of the line to get on the buses at the Superdome.

As anyone with half a brain can see most of the folks on TV could have walked out by Wednesday if they were not so damned lazy and preferred a rid einstead of walking.Those folks ar enot even willing to help themselves.All of the able bodied men leaving town and expecting able bodied men from other states to clecn up their city while they rest on a cot in the Astrodome 300 miles away.It is a shame that they wont even help themselves.They sure could have made things easier on everyone if they would have just left the city.

[Our Lady of Crawford, TX]

Mr Smart Ass Reich winger: are you aware that Mr West has been called 'the smartest man in pop music', hmmm? And that he previously enlightened us on how the US govt created AIDS & crack to destroy the black community. I was just telling my friend Jesse Jackson, "I hate white people so much, I hate myself!"

[Hydrangea]

Mr Smart Ass Reich winger: are you aware that Mr West has been called 'the smartest man in pop music', hmmm? And that he previously enlightened us on how the US govt created AIDS & crack to destroy the black community. I was just telling my friend Jesse Jackson, "I hate white people so much, I hate myself!"

Posted by: Our Lady of Crawford, TX | Sep 3, 2005 4:14:34 PM

You are kidding right?

[Mike R]

Our Lady of Crawford,TX

You must be a Cindy the Shit Stirrer follower.

One thing is for sure you are filled with hate and are severely uneducated about the origin of aids and crack.Please go and educate yourself before you embarrass yourself or your race again.And please let Jesse know that 90% of the leadership in New Orleans is black and as a result of that the city is in total chaos and he is bitching about a black not being on the board for disaster relief.It may just be a good place for the leadership of New Orleans to be as they may fair better at that than running a responsible government.Most of those folks in New Orleans do not need a bus ride out of town,only the sick and young need a ride.The others need a broom and a plastic bag to start cleaning up their city or are they wanting the government to do that too.Lazy bunch freeloaders.

[tom]

Dear racist fucks who complained about looting:
Posted by Amanda Marcotte at 12:30 PM
This is what your stupidity leads to.

HOUSTON -- Thousands of refugees of Hurricane Katrina were transported to the Astrodome in Houston this week. In an extreme act of looting, one group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana.
About 100 people packed into the stolen bus. They were the first to enter the Houston Astrodome, but they weren't exactly welcomed.

The big yellow school bus wasn't expected or approved to pass through the stadium's gates. Randy Nathan, who was on the bus, said they were desperate to get out of town.

"If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans underwater. He got the bus for us."

Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control.

"I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus."...

Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome.

But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world of trouble for stealing the school bus.

"I dont care if I get blamed for it ," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my people."

Sixty legally chartered buses were expected to arrive in Houston throughout the night. Thousands of people will be calling the Astrodome "home," at least for now.

That's not stealing and that's not looting. This is beyond ridiculous. That's heroism. If this kid gets arrested for being a fucking hero and single-handedly saving 100 people, then I am laying the blame on the feet of every stupid asshole who complained about looting.

In the meantime, according to PEEK, Fox News is having trouble perpetuating the lie that BushCo intends to raise a finger to save the life of a single poor black Southerner. Geraldo Rivera broke down crying and reporters from New Orleans on Fox are all but accusing the federal government of lying to people, promising them help and then reneging on that promise.

And as for the racist fucks behind this foot-dragging and lying and all those that support them, I hope that when you get to hell, after you've been greeted nicely by Satan and checked in by Ronald Reagan, your punishment is to be drowned over and over and over again until you fucking realize that suffering is suffering, no matter what race or class or ethnicity the people suffering are.

This entire situation isn't "raising questions" about race in America. It's answering them.

[Mike R]

Hell I thought Michael Jackson was the smartest man in pop music.Or he is the luckiest.

This Kenya guy is a disgrace to his race and to the country as a whole.If he or any other black does not like the freebies they receive her ein the good ol USA then perhaps they can just take their ass back to Africa where they will be known as African Africans.Damn most of you folks give the rest of your folks a bad name.Come freeloaders,lace up your boots and get to work cleaning up your own city.

[Mike R]

Geraldo breaking down crying,give us a break,that was all for the camera.Are you really that naive.As soon as Geraldo did his spheal it was Shephard Smith's turn to try and one up Geraldo.It's all about rating with Geraldo.If you think Geraldo cares one bit about the 2 kids he held last night you are sadly mistaken.Those 2 kids were used for props.

It appears as if you will get the chance to meet Ronald Reagan if he is indeed in hell.

[Isabell]

WTF? What is with all this fighting over race? I don't think it is responsible to be blaming anyone for this mess. It was caused by the hurricane. How can President Bush be blamed. I remember seeing him on TV before the storm urging people to please take this storm seriously and evacuate! Now it is his fault that this didn't happen. People need to stand up and take responsibility for themselves. Everyone had a choice and they are where they are because of that choice. That being said I do not feel that these people should not be helped. They should be helped and not because they are black or Americans, just because they are human beings. They will be helped and people white and black will reach out and help these people. No one is obligated or should feel like they have to because the truth is they don't. It is a kind gesture and instead yelling and cursing at people because of this thank the people that are helping and the people that have been helped. To blame President Bush for this is just plain ridiculous. It is just plain and simple, take responsibility for yourself because you can't depend on other people to.

[usmcmom]

This entire situation isn't "raising questions" about race in America. It's answering them.

Posted by: tom | Sep 3, 2005 4:31:41 PM

Are you saying that you are looking at the evacuees of NO's and deciding about an ENTIRE race in America. I don't think anyone has claimed that an ENTIRE race of people is defined by the actions of those 1,000's in NO. The question to me that is being answered by many in NOs is simply this.....the social welfare system that many of these people were raised in and then in adulthood decided, of their own free will to stay in, has destroyed their God-given ability to not only care for themselves in the most BASIC sense; but much more importantly, it has taken away their sense of service to those around them. IMO the mess in NO basically proves that giving gov't money and aid without any expectation of PERFORMANCE has destroyed the heart and soul of many people in NOs... and I truly mean HEART & SOUL... You have diabetic, sick and elderly family/neighbors and able-bodied men and women go get plasma screens, TVs, and freakin sneakers. They could have gotten wheel chairs or carts or floats to save their people. Where is the sense of commitment to their families and neighbors?? How am I supposed to watch this disgusting disregard for neighbors and family and somehow I'm expected to care about NOs. It doesn't work that way folks... If you don't care about yourself and neighbors, why should I??... When I think of the elderly, the babies that are probably dead right now, b/c they were abandoned not by FEMA, not by Bush, but by their family and neighbors I am pissed. I heard a woman gripping yesterday b/c she had to walk to get out of NO, b/c no one came to get her, and this picture came to mind about the 90-year old Iraqi woman who was pushed 7 miles in a wheelbarrow by her son, surrounded by her family, so that she could vote for the first time in her life. How can it be that a people who have lived under the depravity of Saddam Hussein, have a better sense of identity, a better sense of purpose, of life and what is important, than people who have had the freedom and opportunity to live in America? It is disgusting.

[Pearl]

How many unemployed people would be willing to be hired to help clean up New Orleans? Few, I think. Still, the job will be out there. "I can't find a job" will then turn into "I can't find a job I want to do." No, the taxpayers nationwide will pay to have New Orleans cleaned up while thousands of people able to work to clean up their city stay in a refugee center until the city is again in the state where these people want to return to it.

I do not profess to imply that all people at the Superdome were unemployed and on the government dole. I do believe that in the reportedly 25,000 people there, some of the people could be hired to help clean up that city. They could be provided a wage, room, board, and medical care while they are working. Do you think there would be many takers on that offer? I am curious to see if this approach will be used. I think it would be a good idea.

I also want to say I admire the cities of Texas that are taking these refugees in such large numbers. I also want to say I admire the people I saw in pictures who were risking their own lives to help rescue hurricane victims in the first couple of days after the disaster. I did not see pictures of those who fan the flames of discontent down in the dirty water helping to carry a victim to a safer place. When I see these type of people actually down in the dirty city actually doing something physical to help, I may pay more attention to their rhetoric.

As to the flooded school bus picture. I think not using those buses is a disgrace on the part of the people in New Orleans in charge of planning for disasters. If you do the math, 205 buses times 100 people a bus equals 20,500. That alone would have evacuated most of the people at the Superdome before the hurricane hit. I use the number of buses as 205 because the original post for this discussions linked to a picture caption saying there were 205 buses.

Whatever else can be said, it is evident that disaster planning in New Orleans failed. It failed no matter the skin color of its victims. What we should be trying to learn is why it failed so it will not happen again. Name-calling and finger-pointing is not going to solve the problem of a failure in planning the preparation for and follow-up of a disaster. Those celebrity discontent makers could be more useful in person in New Orleans helping with the mammoth clean up than they are spouting off their mouths on national television. Maybe the singer person who claimied that President Bush doesn't care about black people should think about the fact that many white people buy his music also. If white people did not buy his music, he would not have as much money as he does now. Do you want to slap part of the hand that feeds you?

[bite]

We do not have a poor leader. We have Godless citizens. They do not listen, first of all to their God, their parents or their leaders. TV and schools have taught them to distrust the only people that care about them and to depend on their peers. They are a "know-it-all" bunch who have passed down rebellion to their children who have not respect at home, or for the government because someone on tv or in a classroom downed the leaders and said parents know nothing and we know everything. We will teach you. Yes, they taught you to die and as you were to see others suffering around you. Are you still too good to pray? How many athiests are in NO at this time?

[bite]

Mrs Dole: change channels.

[bite]

Yes, and young white lady, you hate yourself whom God made white? Just who do you owe an apology to for being who you are. You will indeed make someone a fine ho.

[DeeDee]

The question to me that is being answered by many in NOs is simply this.....the social welfare system that many of these people were raised in and then in adulthood decided, of their own free will to stay in, has destroyed their God-given ability to not only care for themselves in the most BASIC sense; but much more importantly, it has taken away their sense of service to those around them. IMO the mess in NO basically proves that giving gov't money and aid without any expectation of PERFORMANCE has destroyed the heart and soul of many people in NOs... and I truly mean HEART & SOUL... You have diabetic, sick and elderly family/neighbors and able-bodied men and women go get plasma screens, TVs, and freakin sneakers. They could have gotten wheel chairs or carts or floats to save their people. Where is the sense of commitment to their families and neighbors?? How am I supposed to watch this disgusting disregard for neighbors and family and somehow I'm expected to care about NOs. It doesn't work that way folks... If you don't care about yourself and neighbors, why should I??... When I think of the elderly, the babies that are probably dead right now, b/c they were abandoned not by FEMA, not by Bush, but by their family and neighbors I am pissed. I heard a woman gripping yesterday b/c she had to walk to get out of NO, b/c no one came to get her, and this picture came to mind about the 90-year old Iraqi woman who was pushed 7 miles in a wheelbarrow by her son, surrounded by her family, so that she could vote for the first time in her life. How can it be that a people who have lived under the depravity of Saddam Hussein, have a better sense of identity, a better sense of purpose, of life and what is important, than people who have had the freedom and opportunity to live in America? It is disgusting.

Posted by: usmcmom

So very well said.....I am going to share these words with others around the world. They need to be heard!

[The Truth Hurts]

The truth is the real story is that what is happened in New Orleans in the biggest case in history of black-on-black crime.

Ray Nagin,is responsible for not assisting or protecting his constituents. To compoing it all he has taken the familiar role of being the victim when he is actually the guilty party!

[MoscowGirl]

I am just glad to see that now a sufficient effort is being made to save people, and it supersedes all discussions about “whose fault it is”.

I am reading few other forums and blogs, and between the extreme views such as “It’s the fault of Rich White and the Government” vs. “Let the Welfare Maggots fetch for them selves”, it seems that most people with common sense, Americans and Foreigners, agree that it’s a combination of decisions, actions and non-actions from both, government and the given population.

I completely agree that it is a “combination”. I am sure each person who is willing to view it as “combination” has one’s own “formula” of what makes up this “combination”.

The issues of “Rich vs. Poor” and “Race” are secondary in my opinion, as far as the cause and contribution to this disaster.

I first of all (surprise, surprise) see that the main problem lies in the fact that USA Government and People live under the illusion of “invincibility” and “invulnerability”.
And further on the subject:

- Government must and should have solid evacuation, rescue, security and sustainment plans and resources for population, of all income levels and physical conditions, PRIOR, DURING and POST a foreseeable disaster.

- But citizens can not put 100% responsibility and reliance on the government, in every case and situation. There are situations where even government, with every effort and intent, are powerless. There are conditions beyond control, and people must not only cooperate, but also take preventive measures and personal responsibility.

- US government should get “over themselves”, and LEARN a few things from countries and systems that were originally “ideological enemies”, in terms of rescue efforts and disaster prevention. Those “ideological enemies” have a lot more experience and practice with such situations, even if they appear more “restrictive” in terms of “individual freedom.

- American people should get “over themselves” and start respecting government instructions in cases of emergency, and quite the attitude “I am free to make all choices till the very end, and when I mess up, its government duty to save me regardless”.

- People should remember that “Freedom” is the most EXPENSIVE right in the world. When you demand to be “free” in all respects, you’re also “free” to make choices that will kill you, and can’t always expect help from those you demanded “freedom” from.

- In cases of disasters, *government* are not only people’s *servants*, they are also an *authority* that has to be respected. If you’re told to “take an action/evacuate” and sufficient efforts are made to help you – EVACUATE or stay at your own risk and DON’T complain. The effort to save people must be sufficient on all levels, but people must be taught to follow orders in cases of emergency.

- And it should start in KINDERGARTEN, through middle school, into adult hood. America is no exempt from disasters of any kind. The “Utopia” that was enjoyed for few decades, to anyone sane was nothing else but TEMPORARY state. For one thing North America is a YOUNG CONTINENT and lots of nature’s activities are still taking place. Even if China won’t attach you, the “weather” might….. and it did, and it does…

- It’s time to drop the “soft white underbelly”, and join the rest of the world when it comes to “realities of life”.

- Boy and Girl Scouts should not be a hobby. They should not be selling cookies to fund their organizations. Government should make these skills and training part of school curriculum. And continue the practice into adult hood, in schools, colleges and places of employment. People of the “greatest country” in the world SHOULD know how act and behave in emergencies; how to defend, protect, survive, take instructions, and simply have the DISCIPLINE to operate in extreme conditions. And government should have a plan and resources to provide.

- There must be a system that works on both ends, government and population. It does not mean that people will be brain washed to follow into abyss like hoards of goat. It means that people are taught to take pride in becoming a well-rounded, as much as possible self-sufficient citizen, who is capable of PARTICIPATING AND HELPING the process in times of crisis.

- Regardless of all the “hoopla” and “debates”, America IS a capitalist country, country of private property and free enterprise. It is a given fact that there will be Rich and there will be Poor. A civilized society must provide the basics and opportunities for the less fortunate, the but the later WILL NOT always result in equalities on all levels, and it should NOT be expected. And it should be conveyed to young people in schools from early age. The fact that US is a “capitalist country” should be TAUGHT in schools, not left for “granted” to learn through out life, before one has a rude awakening at the age of 50 and b*tches about “injustice”.

- Providing basics and opportunities is a MUST, but does not automatically mean that everyone will take advantage of the opportunities. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink. It is a civilized society’s obligation to “offer”, but not to make people “drink”.

- America provides plenty in terms of “basics” and “opportunities”. It should be taught in schools, that those who don’t take the opportunities, might be left behind…. Literally.

- Enough “pussy footing” and “trying not to hurt people’s feelings”. If one is failing a subject – then one is failing! And no it is not OK to be on welfare, with 5 kids, and dress size 24W…….. And no, nobody but you got yourself into that state…. Even animals know not to reproduce when sources of food are scarce and environment is hostile.

- It’s your choice to be on welfare with 5 kids and size 24W (in most cases), and it’s your freedom to stay that way…… But you’re not likely to have car and money to escape the disaster, and it’s going to be DAMN difficult to lift you all up to the helicopter…….

- Given that government do their share, *Americans* should decide, do they want to keep “the freedom to float as they please” and maybe “float someplace unpleasant”, or give up some of it and learn responsibility and discipline. You can’t have it both ways……

Ok….. I am off my soap box…. But I am angry to see “all this” which could have been prevented if both Government and People would quite being delusional about “realities of life”.

[hardyandtiny]

Gibson said, "as long as I saved my people."

my people?

[clintcarter]

"my people"

As in, the people left to rot in New Orleans.

Those people.

[clintcarter]

Posted by: just an observer | Sep 3, 2005 9:17:37 AM

"The national guard wasn't able to help and assist because they were being shot at..."

I didn't realize that; the National Guard exists to protect U.S. but only if they themselves are not put in any danger. Our soldiers may be put in harms way in Iraq, but god forbid they should face danger to save United States citizens!

And if it is predominately members of one class or race that is doing the shooting, regardless of how many, then we will deny aid to the overwhelming balance of the those people who happen to look like the shooters. Let children die on national TV because some hoodlums give the Governor of LA reason to deny aid to thousands, to bring in soldiers trained to kill and NOT use them to immediately get aid to the Convention Ctr., to huff and hiss and put those darkies in their place.

I'm sure 'nuff glad this has Nothing to do with race, though.

[Bev]

You know something this is pitiful.
The excuse that people did not leave because they were poor was, I believe, one reporters opinion. Before that, I heard a state official on the radio say:

"what you have to remember is that these citizen had packed up and boarded up over and over again for the huricanes that they were told were coming and they never did."

This sounds more like common since and practical behavior: Like with the boy who cried wolf they stopped believing.

Believe what you see not what you hear. Hell, just using common since you can see for yourself people who wouldn't dare leave those who are disabled, preganant ect. I saw men who had obviously served our country in past wars. And to this day some who are still on there front porches that appear to me to be just terrified of water, they are reaching for supplies with a broom, in water that's just up to the tires of a nearby car. Having been once a none swimmer myself I can relate to that.

And as for as the young rapper; Those of us who still use common since know that there are good and bad people in all races. And that it's true, racism is alive and well in the good 'ol USA as we have witnessed on this site. Ya' know all of us were young and idealist at some point in our lives and, we wanted to right all the wrong and speak our minds. Mr. West is also allowed that same privilege to be idealist, and honest, and assert his right to freedom of speach, honestly.

THINK people, before you speak/write! "Only FOOLs rush in where wise men never dare to......

If you visited NO and experienced the culture there, the cuisine, and music, well those same black faces and under paid people are the ones that made it happen. Dispite the fact that tourist thoughtlessly treated it like a party zone, drinking, littering, and urinating on the streets.

[usmcmom]

I'm sure 'nuff glad this has Nothing to do with race, though.
Posted by: clintcarter | Sep 4, 2005 5:32:11 AM

Clint, I know you lean towards that belief, but think about it this way too. IMO It's only having to do with race, b/c the news media is broadcasting 90% of their coverage in NOs, when there is 100,000's in MS/AL that are also displaced, BUT..oh my gosh they're just "white" folks. Guess it wouldn't serve the medias' purpose to show those folks too, now would it.

[clintcarter]

USMCMom in the coverage I've seen there has been footage of people in the more rural areas and in the city. I have seen many white faces, even within the city.
But to delay sending in help, where thousands were easily reached, for DAYS because it is supposedly too dangerous for our forces?
When have you heard that before? Too dangerous for the troops??

It just looks bad. Real bad.

[clintcarter]

While we're on disparities, why is this blog full of people deriding the poor black residents for still being there? Didn't all kinds of people choose to stay at their homes? Weren't there all kinds of difficulties we know nothing about?

Why are the blacks fools for staying and the whites resourceful? Why is the black boy in the water stealing bread and the white couple with the same bread 'foraging'?

Why, if everyone is so concerned about equity and a lack of racism, is this blog now FULL of anger and insults directed at poor black people suffering unimaginably? If one or two white people say something foolish or in anger, does one lump all whites together with those people? Of course not!

So, USMCMom, read through this blog and tell me there is not a considerable tendency to take something a black person says or does and apply it as a blanket condemnation of the group.
And why is there so little response when that happens from the crowd here that usually (when their 'side' is attacked) says criticism is out of place? Could it be they're often one and the same?

[clintcarter]

Moscow Girl, sad to say I am just now reading (instead of skimming...) your post.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Many of the hateful, blind responses recently have made me sick to my stomach.

If I may add to your list:
1) a sense of personal responsibility and accountability communicated in actions rather than words; with leadership provided by leaders who strive to Set An Example.
2) Wisdom derived from examining one's reactions and realizing how narrow a window one's perspective is. 'Doubt what you think' and you are on the road to being a better human being.

I hope that your thoughtful response helps provide an incentive for others to do the same.

[!]

Posted by: MoscowGirl | Sep 3, 2005 9:29:03 PM

----------------------------------------------
Well said Moscowgirl !! well said. !! THANKS YOU!

[Isabell]

Are you still too good to pray? How many athiests are in NO at this time?

Posted by: bite | Sep 3, 2005 5:50:45 PM

I would guess about 1267. what kind of a question is this? This is about race not religion. Get with it bite. LOL!