Botched Prosecutions News To The Dutch

Well, it is news ... from today in Amsterdam:

AMSTERDAM — Everything that could have went wrong in the Nienke Kleiss murder investigation, according to a report by a special commission published on Tuesday.

An innocent man Cees B. served four years of an 18-year sentence for killing Nienke, 10. He was freed in January when another man apparently confessed to the crime.

The commission that reviewed the conduct of the police and prosecutors involved in the case described the investigation as "a chain of carelessness and failures of judgement".

Earlier this month it was revealed that prosecutors did not alert the court that forensic evidence not connected to Nienke, Maikel or B, had been found on her body.

The prosecution service repeated denials on Tuesday that evidence had been deliberately withheld and continued to stick to the line established by Brouwer last week that "indisputable errors" had been made.

To be fair, we've had our share of issues in and around prosecutions here in the US, too.

Comments

[iwabwu]

Conflict of interest & coverup again?

[Cindi in PA]

To be fair, we've had our share of issues in and around prosecutions here in the US, too.

Posted by Dan in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

lots of them Dan, I remember reading an article within the last couple of months. Guy in prison for years, without ever going to trial. Don't remember the details.

[res juda cata]

Wow, SHOCKING!!! I cannot believe it, botched prosecutions are news to the Dutch... Stop the press.

[Yolande]

This happens when police is too eager to blame someone -just anyone- for a crime. Maybe we can all learn from this.

[FromNebras]

Botched prosecutions are a trademark for the US. I am even more ashamed of our legal system. It sucks overhere!

[DeeDee]

It sucks overhere!

Posted by: FromNebras

Well, what the **ll is keeping you from going over there. This is America, you are free to leave!

[mc]

Learn from this and it sucks...

You are kidding, right? I would take the US system over anyone elses in the world, even with its flaws. It is mostly correct, but as with any of "man's systems", it can be manipulated. We saw an example in the orinthal simpson, m. jackson trials. When people are involved, there is always an X factor; race, money, power and human error.

[FromNebras]

"I would take the US system over anyone elses in the world"

Posted by: mc

----------

Haha, you're kidding me right? The US system is lame and ill and needs to be cured. The death penalty, for example, is the most stupidest thing ever.

DeeDee, why don't you leave? I heard some countries want their IQ raised by 2 whole points! Your loss!

[DeeDee]

DeeDee, why don't you leave? I heard some countries want their IQ raised by 2 whole points! Your loss!

Posted by: FromNebras | Sep 14, 2005 9:02:34 AM

Nebraskan: I never complained about America. I like it here. You were the one who stated it was better over there. I just asked you what was keeping you here? You are free to leave. Do you realize that Nebby, no one is holding you here against your will. I love America and would never betray her. Obviously your conversation over IQ was with MC and obviously you have now confused his statements and mine considering your reply. Focus.

[Dutch Cheese]

Well, At least in Holland we don't have a death penalty, so we can correct this issue. In your 'beloved US", he would already be dead

[FromNebras]

Deedee, what is so great about our America? No wonder everyone hates us! We are all thickheaded idiots, towing along guns. I mean what a stupid law, that a person can possess a gun. I don't have to get out the statistics now do I, in order to show you that America has the highest number of murders. Period. And no BS about the relativeness of it, because Canada has a factor 1000 less murders and is as big a country as the US.

The legal system in the US is hilarious. It's ridiculous. No, let's not let a judge (who studied for years and has very much experience in this) decide who goes to jail or so. No, in America we let a group of stupid people decide who goes to jail. Where's the logic in that?

I'm not leaving. Hell no! I love my house and my job. I just hate the American way of thinking and the thing I hate the most is our justice system and the way you think it is the best.

Get a life.

[DeeDee]

our justice system and the way you think it is the best.

Get a life.

Posted by: FromNebras | Sep 14, 2005 10:13:46

Ok, where did I say our "justice system" is the best? I said I love America, and that means I accept the good the with the bad and will not put my fellow Americans down to any other country in the world. Nevertheless, the fighting within our nation amongst our own is likened to a family scwabble. Keep it within the family. As a mother, I can correct my children but I don't want the neighbor doing it and I have enough love for my children to defend their good name even if they make a few mistakes. Hope you are understanding my point here Neb.

[DeeDee]

squabble....oops

[The RealPackerFan]

Haha, you're kidding me right? The US system is lame and ill and needs to be cured. The death penalty, for example, is the most stupidest thing ever.

DeeDee, why don't you leave? I heard some countries want their IQ raised by 2 whole points! Your loss!

Posted by: FromNebras | Sep 14, 2005 9:02:34 AM

"most stupidest"--and you speak of IQ??????????????

As far as murder in the U.S. being so high, if you are truly from Nebraska, I doubt you see much in the way of murder rates comparatively. We sure do not in Wisconsin. Yes, I will bet murder in Nebraska is just way off the scale as is the murder rate in America itself as you lump it. Break it down and there are many places without high murder rates here in America and many safe places to live. And in a country with town, village, municipal, county, state and national courts, judges, legal systems, etc. in vast numbers, to generalize about our system or our crime rate sure indicates someone with an IQ who looks beyond the big picture at every facet of everything. Yeah right.

I sure don't tote around a gun and do not know anyone who does. I can sit in my home alone with my doors unlocked. I can even leave the home and leave my doors unlocked which I often do.

And as far as a bunch of stupid people deciding who goes to jail????? Another generalization and lumping all into a group. Every juror is stupid. We all tote guns. The murder rate is atrocious, Canada's is lower.

And if I really want to nitpick, you said "tow" guns. Now I really don't know anyone who has towed a gun. Lot of good it would do them if they needed it quickly when it is behind them being towed.

And I will admit what I do not know (not a problem) and while I know Canada is large, I am pretty certain their population does not compare to the population of the U.S. so I sure hope you did your homework when comparing murder rates per capita. I am also sure there are vast areas of unpopulated land in Canada.

All I can figure with such views is that some jury found you guilty and you are sitting in a Nebraska prison, hence your view on both jurors being stupid and our legal system.

[The RealPackerFan]

DeeDee,

Don't waste your breath. It would be like sitting here all day and knocking your head against your computer screen (or a brick wall).

She/he hates everything about our country, all are stupid, all "tow" guns, our legal system is the worst, our murder rate the highest and a house and his/her job makes all of that worth staying. The only one he/she seems not to lump together in our country is himself/herself. No mention of staying because of family here, friends, etc., just the material items, a house and a job. What a reason to stay in a country you do not stand up for and you detest in every way.

[Mom Got It Goin'On]

"This happens when police is too eager to blame someone -just anyone- for a crime. Maybe we can all learn from this"
--------------------------------
You can't deny that VDS was the last to be seen with her and knows something AND he's admitted to raping her. WAKE UP!

[DeeDee]

Thanks PackerFan. The obvious mistrust towards a jury does lend you to believe it is a personal matter. I live in the NE and we don't have guns in "tow" either. Yet we do have a gun case full of guns and the men in our family are avid hunters. There are a few things that I detest in America but I still think it's the greatest country in the world. It is not our geographical size nor our population that makes us great. It is our character as a whole. It is the majority who are for the "common" good IMO.

[scubajap]

You might want to take a look at this Florida case-this man served 26 years-finally proven innocent by DNA testing.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:SdRzMib6B2cJ:www.cardozo.yu.edu/cms/uploadedFiles/DiazPressRelease_FINAL_080205.doc+bird+road&hl=en&lr=lang_nl|lang_en

[The RealPackerFan]

Dee Dee, I couldn't have said what you said better. I just hate it when one can only see the negative as well when there are, as you said so many great things, so many positives. I hear nothing out of that person about the appreciation of the fact she has a home, the fact she has a job, the fact she can get on her and speak as she wants (freedom of speech), etc. Where does she (or he) think would be so much better? And where does she or he think these things came from? Takes them for granted like so many with not one word of positive about the U.S. or the fact we have these things.

And then, if she or he is so concerned about the murder rate where it is high in America, i.e., L.A., etc. (not here and probably not where you are and definitely not in Nebraska), why does she not get off her butt and move to a big city with big crime and try to do something about it? Yeah, right. Run for office and change things? Yeah, right. Go into law enforcement? Yeah, right. Lead the fight for gun control? Yeah, right.

We too are a big hunting area and all families deer hunt, it is tradition and family oriented. No one, however, runs around with a gun at any other time and I am hard put to name even two murders in my town in my entire life (and I am 41).

Have a great day, I might be back on once more but have to get going soon.

[The RealPackerFan]

scubajap,

yes, that does happen, here and apparently in the Netherlands as well, per Dan's post. sad but still the exception rather than the rule although that does not change how tragic it is when such a thing was done to an innocent person's life and family.

i believe the boys in the NH case are all guilty (of some thing) but just because we say that on this board does not make us evil, we do not have the power to put them away so it is nothing but our opinions and hopes that evidence is found to prove it, the guilty are prosecuted and justice is done.

[DeeDee]

believe the boys in the NH case are all guilty (of some thing) but just because we say that on this board does not make us evil,

Kuddos! This is America! We do have that Freedom and many more. For those who "bite the hand that feeds them", move to another country. No one is stopping you. Try it out for six months or so and then make your comparison.

[FromNebras]

For all the people here who have, yet again, got there opinion ready: I've been there and done that (I've spent 2 years living in Europe). And you know what: I can understand why non US citizins hate us so much. We are just full of it. We think we own this planet and can tell others what to do and what not to do.

We are criticising an other justice system, without even thinking about how bad ours is. We must show respect for other systems. But we don't. Noooo, we should boycot Aruba because of it. Hell, why not boycot all Dutch terretories? We are America! Why don't we just do that?

Yuck. It sickens me.

[bryan]

A pertinent insight into Holloway case as prosecuted by Nancy Grace and others is here :

http://wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/001773.html

http://www.truthinjustice.org/carr.htm

http://injusticeanywhere.blogspot.com/2005/04/bad-nancy.html

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/2005/05/but_it_boosted_.html

Most people think a jury trial, even for murder is a rule in the US. Far from being a rule most felonies (indicates trial by jury as an option) are decided by plea bargin and many other means including dismissal.

Most people think CSI, L A Law, Perry Mason have something to do with reality - they do not. I will give you $1000 if you can proove beyond reasonable doubt in my mind that any attorney you know personnaly has ever seen anyone break down and confess in court and the confession was admitted as part of the court record. It just don't happen and if it did the defense would most likely win a dismissal on appeal if a judge allowed this confession in the record.

Jury selection has become (maybe not intended) a contest between defense and prosecution to find the most emotionally swayable group of 14 (not twelve you have to have alternates) possible. Initial written questioning allows religious preference, race preference, predisposition, all as reasons to drop a juror from pool. Attorneys go to classes in law school and use consultants after to hone their skills in reading jury candidates. The antics of the jury in the Micheal Jackson show is evidence of how silly juries can behave. ( Not the not guilty but the BS during and after).

The appeals process allows for no jury in most instances. Appeals courts do not have juries by and large they use judges. Problem here is the judge is elected most times based on party affiliation and law and order ( which means convictions to most ). When one gets to a level of appeal where the judge is appointed for life you get to a legal court that can make a decision based on law not emotion. That is if you can afford it, live that long, etc.

Often what people really want is a talking head to determine guilt and supply death so that the crowd of observers can move on to the next event. It has not happened this way in the Holloway case.
Thus the infighting and scrambling for evidence in the observer gallery.

This strange and complicated system has helped in developing the most thriving economy, the healthiest and wealthiest populace, and the freest nation ever existing. It is to be noted that those who know little of how the courts in the US or Aruba work are the ones who bray the loudest.

[Sam]

This strange and complicated system has helped in developing the most thriving economy, the healthiest and wealthiest populace, and the freest nation ever existing. It is to be noted that those who know little of how the courts in the US or Aruba work are the ones who bray the loudest.

Posted by: bryan | Sep 14, 2005 4:33:43 PM

Right on Bryan. I do not want an innocent person to get convicted in Natalees case but I would like to see the investigators start over from the beginning and see if they can possibly solve this case.
Sam

[stillwantingrealanswers]

"Mom Got It Goin'On" - When did ANYBODY admit to raping Natalee? What evidence have you seen? You cannot possibly state that's a fact because no proof of that has EVER ben released. You're trying to make an unsubstantiated accusation into fact. You only have the Holloway family's claims to proof this, and they have never released any evidence to back this up. Even that claim has been changed over the past months. So I'm definitely amazed that having never seen any proof WHATSOEVER, you can bark at other people that your ACCUSATION is a FACT. Whether or not you believe what the Holloways believe, the only FACT is, YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS, AND NONE OF US DO!

[Katzkeep]

You know FromNeb . . . sour grapes make the worse wHine. Curious to know where you've been and for how long you LIVED in Europe. You sound pathetically bitter and ten to one if you could kick the person MOST responsible for your problems/woes, you wouldn't sit down for a year.

I’m going to spend about as much time thinking about your “profound posts” as you’ve spent searching for your long-lost moral compass. IOW, none.

[Katzkeep]

This strange and complicated system has helped in developing the most thriving economy, the healthiest and wealthiest populace, and the freest nation ever existing. It is to be noted that those who know little of how the courts in the US or Aruba work are the ones who bray the loudest.

Posted by: bryan | Sep 14, 2005 4:33:43 PM

This is truly, by far, the best authored and insightful post I've yet to read . . . to date. Bravo Bryan!

[oneyka]

I'm not leaving. Hell no! I love my house and my job. I just hate the American way of thinking and the thing I hate the most is our justice system and the way you think it is the best.

Get a life.

Posted by: FromNebras | Sep 14

*************************************************

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO BE AN AMERICAN,

YOU ARE THE KIND THAT GETS THE MILK AND THEN CURSES THE COW?
WHY DON'T YOU GET A JOB IN ARUBA, AT C&C's?
OR MAYBE AT THE CASINO BOAT? OR MAYBE AT THE INTERNET WITH CREEP KALPOE? YOU WOULD LOVE THOSE JOBS ALSO! AND BE UNDER THE ARUBAN LAW!!!

[blacklable]

In the above mentioned case (by Dan) there was another twist to it. The man who set 4 years innocent, had admitted to the murder. Now, everybody is falling out over the system, because they took the confession for granted.

[FromNebras]

I wish i could curse the hand that feeds me. But you can't here, because we are racists here. Same with the NH case. We all dive ontop of Joran just because he isn't an American.

Sick now, isn't it?

[Northerner]

And just to show how seriously we take this case, there is at this moment a debate about it in the Tweede Kamer (equivalent to the House of Representatives). This is being televised live (not common in Holland) and the representatives are asking some pretty serious questions. Possibly the Minister of Justice will have to go over this.