Well, He's Not Wrong, Really

Though I've heard as a child, he was misguided ... something about a bear.

But he's still right on this one.

Comments

[lrgarcia210]

Will someone please tell me why Joran's father refused to let the FBI search the well on his property? If it is a water well, I am sure that Aruba has a public water system and that the water in the well is either drinkable, potable, or septic tank.

(Posted by TinkersDam. Regarding the abandoned well in the Van der Sloot's backyard, I have heard in another report that it is 800 feet deep. Is it not OBVIOUS to anyone in charge down there that is MOST LIKELY where the the Van der Sloots have dumped Natalee's body?? Other reports say that the body was buried at the fishermans hut, Tim's research backs that up and contends the body was MOVED.....yes, Paulus & Joran moved it to their own backyard well. The Van der Sloots have not allowed anyone to search their backyard, where the well is, doesn't ANYONE find this odd??)

Does Aruba have warrants issued to allow the search of the water well based on the possibility of finding more clues?

Aruba is approximately 9 miles long and about 3 miles wide, and the authorities are slowly running out of places to search.

I think the Aruba Prime Minister or the FBI should issue a search warrant or something to be able to search the well on the Van der Sloot property, since Paul refused to let them before. Does he have something to hide? I heard that the judge in Aruba for the investigation if Joran's godfather. I guess that is why they can't get anything done, because everyone is related somehow.

Come on people of Aruba, the whole world is watching all of you to look really really stupid, at the hands of a teenager with raging hormones and a sick love for a website filled with rape, and no respect for a beautiful woman. Joran's website had gang rapes, rapes in general, and torture before it was removed. It was www.Joran.com.

Hey Joran, pretend that it is your mother that you have done all of this horrible stuff to, and pretend that it is your mother at the bottom of the well on your family's property.

Would you still be trying to hide behind your father's association with officials of Aruba that are believing all of your lies. Paul's shifty eyes tell me all of you are lying.

Will the Prime Minister of Aruba please allow the search of this well so the grieving parent's can take their only daughter home to rest in peace?

Either way, you are still going to hell along with deepak and ceepak battery-pak brothers who seem to keep on going and going and and staying out of jail, while your ass gets hung. Happy Trails to you on your everafter ride into hell. Goodbye.

[baby]

wohoooo

[GrannyToad]

The cesspool.

Nobody'd dump a body into the household water supply.

[GrannyToad]

Dan, the one phonecall to the house is what started the whole family visit in the middle of the night. ...
Posted by: blacklable | August 12, 2005 09:21 PM

The one verified call Dan spoke of was probably made from inside a car, not a house. It went to the phone of one of the MB kids that was turned off until during the trip back to AL, so the call went to voicemail until retrieved. Note that it was from an Aruban phone to an AL cell phone - I'm assuming country code & all.

We rumor & surmise-from a possible other call at there house but have no documentation such a call exists.
~~~~~~~~~

According to my reports it wasn't papiamento - it was bad english and it did not sound like are yu calling home.
Posted by: Dan | August 12, 2005 09:26 PM

Oh? What did it sound like, got any more info, pleeeeeeease?

[George T.]

RE:
Happy Trails to you on your everafter ride into hell.
Posted by: lrgarcia210 | August 12, 2005 08:15 PM

Going to hell is not dependent on What WE do here on Earth. It is dependent on What HE did here on Earth. JC that is.
Our only requirement is to acknowledge that He is the Son of God, and accept Him as such. (If you are a Christian.)
Other people believe in universal salvation.

It is possible that if you are unaware of this info, maybe You are the one Going to Hell.

[scubajap]

Aruba is approximately 9 miles long and about 3 miles wide

19 miles long 6 miles wide at widest point

[scubajap]

Nobody'd dump a body into the household water supply.

The island uses distilled sea water for potable water. 2nd largest water distillery in the world. It is physically impossible to dig a well here 800 ft deep, as I have stated before, the island is almost entirely coral rock. dig down 5 inches and you hit rock. One needs jackhammers to dig a garden or a swimming pool, and it takes weeks, I know because I had to be woken up at 7 am every morning for a month for them to dig out the hole for my neighbor's pool.
Wells are a left over from a bygone era, it may not even be a well, but more likely a cistern, used to catch rainwater from the roof, also a left over from a bygone era before the water plant. I will try and pass by there tomorrow and see if it is an actual well or a cistern.

[shonane]

lrgarcia210 |>> The well would be a bad place to hide a body. Eventually it would smell, be found, and at some point be traced back to them. No body is in the well.

PVS is probably just tired of being harassed, doesn't want his property torn up, may be afraid someone will try to plant something there. He let the officials of his government who are responsible for doing the investigation throughly search this property already.

[shonane]

The one verified call Dan spoke of was probably made from inside a car, not a house. It went to the phone of one of the MB kids that was turned off until during the trip back to AL, so the call went to voicemail until retrieved. Note that it was from an Aruban phone to an AL cell phone - I'm assuming country code & all.

=======================================
It sounded to me like it was a wrong number. They could not definitely determine this was Natalee. I get wrong numbers calls on my cell phone fairly regularly and them most often come in wee hours of morning, probably from some drunk fool who punched in one of the numbers incorrectly.

[clintcarter]

I'm not sure what the thread topic is here but I just wanted to check on something.
If you're a Christian what you DO here on Earth has no bearing on your Afterlife as long as you acknowledge that Christ is the Son of God?

No wonder it's such a popular religion.

Now, if I do not accept that premise or even if I am ignorant of it I will go to Hell regardless of how I have lived my life?

What folly to build one's beliefs up to where all others are doomed to Hell if they don't agree with how you feel. What self-centered egotism on the part of humans does it take to believe that anything as godly as God would have such petty human jealousy and motivations?

And don't tell me the Bible says it's so. The Bible says a lot of stuff; even Grimer Wormtongue could find script to back a plan.

[warrenb]

The VS property was already searched early on. Nothing found so their not going back.

[warrenb]

And someone said the well is 800 ft deep! So youre saying its over half a mile deep. Cmon get real people. If its that deep then its not a water well, its an OIL well. LOL

[shonane]

If you're a Christian what you DO here on Earth has no bearing on your Afterlife as long as you acknowledge that Christ is the Son of God?

Clintcarter
=============================================
I am a Christian and I will try to explain very briefly. It is not quite as simple as you state.

If you accept Christ as the Son of God, then you believe what he taught, and you made a commitment to follow him and his teachings and God's laws. So NO you don't just do whatever and be saved. As a true Christian (and many claim to be and are not living like Christians) your goal should be to be as Christlike as possible in the way you live your life.

Still, it is not your works that save you, but your faith in Christ as the Son of God, who redeemed you from your sins by dying on the cross for you. All have sinned an come short of the glory of God.

There are many Christian denominations with commonalities in some core beliefs, but differences - if not violent disagreements- in how they interpret some aspects of scripture the Bible and Christ's teachings as it applies to our lives and society today.

Most Christian denominations do believe that if you are not a Christian that you are not saved. There are some that do not believe this as a permanent state, for all of eternity, with no future opportunity for redemption. And there are some exceptions, like children who are innocent and would never have been able to make an informed commitment. There are various ideas about opportunities for redemption later for the unsaved, but the most fundamentalist Christians believe it is all over for eternity if you don't commit when given a chance.

Then there is each person's personal interpretation and experiences which is what it is all about anyway - our relationship with God and how it affects how we live our lives while we are here on earth. I believe God loves everyone and there will always be a way and opportunity for everyone to grow closer to God and to be redeemed, if not hear on earth then in the next experience of the soul. I also believe that hell is separation from God. Not all Christians think this.

I feel I did not provide an adequate response, but don't want to elaborate anymore since, as you mentioned, it is off topic.

I do understand your latter point and I have never been comfortable with it either.

[George T.]

clint carter,
I also said, Other people believe in universal salvation.
I am one of those other people.

[George T.]

Either way, you are still going to hell along with deepak and ceepak battery-pak brothers who seem to keep on going and going and and staying out of jail, while your ass gets hung. Happy Trails to you on your everafter ride into hell. Goodbye.

Posted by: lrgarcia210 | August 12, 2005 08:15 PM

Shonane, You are so articulate. Thank you for your responce. I was trying to imply to Irgarcia210, that all things are forgivable (except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) and that even if all the bad things people are saying about the trio ARE true, it is not a given that they will enter Hell, or as you more correctly described it as a seperation from God. You are blessed with your insight. And close, I can see. But hate and mean words being shouted at someone are not communication. Natalee is the point and to verbally abuse the suspects is not Natalee;s wish. She liked Joran to start with. Maybe she still does?

[clintcarter]

Thank you Shonane.

Personally I don't think there's a more fundamental basis for judgement than how we work, or don't, to live cooperatively in harmony. God in it's wisdom could find little more revealing of our character than how Christ-like we have been in our approach to others.

And what we have chosen to believe or the tithe we have paid will be less relevant to the Truly Compassionate One than what has been Written of us each day as we forge our destinies.

[shonane]

Good points Clintcarter.

[clintcarter]

Here we go again: All things are forgivable Except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

Why would a very unhuman-like God judge us with the perspective of petty humans? 'Blasphemy' of that order sounds like a way for the ruling religious humans to impose their will on other humans.
Why wouldn't God be watching us, free of ego and the need for recognition, Seeing who lives Christ-like Without just going through the motions on Sunday? It does not seem possible that God would pass judgement in the same ways humans seem so eager to.

It is entirely possible that the Chosen Ones will be those with the Heart to toss off the vanity-encumbered 'official' religions and strive to mirror appropriate Actions, not words and symbols born of human ambition.

[!]

As one of my favorite posters says....
----------------------------------------------
People with nothing to hide hide nothing

Posted by: seedyrum | August 12, 2005 08:52 PM
________________________________________________

The two brothers and Joran and his father, mother, and the mother of the boys are all selfish, self centered cowards. They know the damn truth ! And God knows !
They care about no one but themselves. They are heartless empty souls. God knows this too!
I could care less if all of them would just turn up missng never to heard from again, just like they did Natalee. Wonder if Aruba could solve that case should this happen. Ha...That would be wild. I could see it now.
I hope that someday a few GHOSTS should up and get the job done!!
They all deserve nothing more than to simply disappear. Good ridance to all of them. I hope to see this happen one day.
Paybacks are hell as they say. !!!!!! May it will happen, sooner than later. It sure as hell would not break my heart. Scumbags...all of them. Sorry I feel this way but it has be so hard to sit back and watch this unfold as it has. Its so sad.
The whole bunch that are supose to be running that island are big jokes. I feel bad for the decent folks that live on that island.

[clintcarter]

Hey, !!!!

Over on the Sheehan thread "everyone just wants to point fingers and criticize", eh? But over here you're eager to Kill off suspects who may not all be guilty and who, to AMERICANS, are supposed to be innocent until found guilty?

Cowards, scumbags, Big Jokes, wackos, hatemongers, disgusting, pathetic, heartless empty souls, weak minded, selfish, weak...

You sure do have everyone else figured out.
Just a tip: when God comes for thr Decent People, maybe you should hide under the bed.

[Jack in Southern California]

Thank G-D I'm not a christian!

[!]

GET A LIFE CLINTCARTER. PLEEEZZZZZZ

AND I HAVE YOU FIGURED OUT TOO !! LOL

[Jean]

Going to hell is not dependent on What WE do here on Earth. It is dependent on What HE did here on Earth. JC that is.
Our only requirement is to acknowledge that He is the Son of God, and accept Him as such. (If you are a Christian.)
Other people believe in universal salvation.

It is possible that if you are unaware of this info, maybe You are the one Going to Hell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel the same about Christianity and Amway. Their product is probably good, but their salesmen are so obnoxious, I wouldn't buy anything from them just out of principle.

[baby]

hello this is about natalee remember?

[GrannyToad]

Wells are a left over from a bygone era, it may not even be a well, but more likely a cistern, used to catch rainwater from the roof, also a left over from a bygone era before the water plant. I will try and pass by there tomorrow and see if it is an actual well or a cistern.

Posted by: scubajap | August 12, 2005 10:25 PM

I'd wondered if cisterns weren't sometimes used in the past -- I still do, aboveground rainwater collection, I had a metal roof put on the house. My coffee is heavenly, no minerals or chemicals, never bitter! Dry beans cook comparatively quickly. The cistern is near the house & guttering to direct collection.

Of course 800' depth in Aruba is silly. I'm in a "holler", bottom of a hill, don't use wellwater for household use. I understand there is piped water now to some/most places, not all. And cesspools - now that takes some digging but that's what the homes have. I'm on a septic tank system myself.

Let us know about the place, scuba. What's that across from the pool tucked nearly into the shrubbery? I figured it for a well. http://thepoliticalteen.net/images/slootlarge.JPG

[GrannyToad]

PVS is probably just tired of being harassed, doesn't want his property torn up, may be afraid someone will try to plant something there. He let the officials of his government who are responsible for doing the investigation throughly search this property already.

Posted by: shonane | August 12, 2005 10:29 PM

Well, no, he has not, unless it was this week. That's the point. Paul directed what may and may not be searched back in June. Can you imagine! Ben Voc/King was with him there at the time. FBI was only allowed to watch.

[\\\\CroSSBronXXPress////]

Personal thought...

Back in the beginning of June , I will never , EVER forget seeing the print at the bottom of the Fox screen "Confession given from one of the suspects , leading police to the body" . That type of wording doesn't just make it into the media by mistake ... someone in the Aruban police system told that to the media , and it was then retracted. I honestly do believe there was an immediate cover up attempt by the authorities.

There is no way you couldn't think that !

You are dealing with 3 boys here ... 18,18,and 21 , there is no way in hell possible these 3 kids did something with that girls remains that would make her this hard to find!

I can tell you "SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED" not once but TWICE!!!

[GrannyToad]

It sounded to me like it was a wrong number. They could not definitely determine this was Natalee. I get wrong numbers calls on my cell phone fairly regularly and them most often come in wee hours of morning, probably from some drunk fool who punched in one of the numbers incorrectly.

Posted by: shonane | August 12, 2005 10:34 PM

Do you think Alabamans get wrong numbers from drunks in Aruba, including country code, often?

[\\\\CroSSBronXXPress////]

Also ... (not sure at what point) I do remember hearing on Fox last night , that the Columbian witness WAS threatened or harassed.

[GrannyToad]

And someone said the well is 800 ft deep! So youre saying its over half a mile deep.
Posted by: warrenb | August 12, 2005 11:16 PM

2x800=1600. 1 mile = 5280' But not likely many wells on Aruba were ever that depth, unless out at the refinery?

[\\\\CroSSBronXXPress////]

Well is without a doubt not 800ft deep ... scubajap made some mention to this thought several times.

I also think the well in question was in the neighbors adjoining yard and was looked at by equusearch , I may be wrong though ??

[andy]

\\\\CroSSBronXXPress//// - well the Aruban LE could easily get him back, they just do not want to. I noticed a huricane named Nate is on the 2005 list of NOAA.

[shonane]

Do you think Alabamans get wrong numbers from drunks in Aruba, including country code, often?

Posted by: GrannyToad
===================================
When people are drunk they are calling a number they know, but will punch in one of the # in the sequence wrong, like if supposed to end "5768" will punch in "5786". They will say, well isn't this #### and it usually only one number will be off or tranposed.

[Canada Goose]

There is alot of fairly ridiculous talk in here, especially about religion. We are here to discuss Natalee's disappearance, not rank on people, call down the suspects or the people of Aruba. It only says alot about the kind of person writing in here, when it is disrespectful. Because all of the evidence is kept locked up with the investigators we certainly don't know what evidence there really is. It does seem that they have a better system in that they can lock up suspects for their suspicious behaviours. That does not happen in the US or Canada. Joran and the Kalpoo brothers would NOT be jail in this situation. Aruba authorities need our support, as well as Beth and Dave in all of this. Be mature!!! Praying would be good too, no matter what denomination.

[clintcarter]

I beg to differ, Canada Goose. Not only is Dan regularly running threads with other topics, but the topic of this thread started out as a tangent and went where the participants wanted it to go.

We're not doing this on the Natalee discussion thread. Some of the best stuff is taking place elsewhere. Feel free to join in.

[JailLess1]

lrgarcia210 |>> The well would be a bad place to hide a body. Eventually it would smell, be found, and at some point be traced back to them. No body is in the well.

PVS is probably just tired of being harassed, doesn't want his property torn up, may be afraid someone will try to plant something there. He let the officials of his government who are responsible for doing the investigation throughly search this property already.

Posted by: shonane |
He let them search inside of his house, AND if that search went anything like the way they started that investigation from the very beginning, then they need to let the pros take over! As for him being tired of being harrassed, then he's not very logical is he? I, myself would rather be harrassed for half a day by letting them just get it over with then to be harrassed for the rest of my duration here on earth! And whatever it is, well, cess pool, hole in the ground or a crack..they need to just search the dang thing & get it over with. If that was my relative or friend & I could get to Aruba, I would just wait till he & his wife weren't home & go search the thing, wtf...then go do my lil jail time or pay my fine for nosying around private property. Of course they won't be able to charge them or retreive the body (possibly) if it were there after I pulled a stunt like that but the WHOLE WIDE WORLD will know they are guilty as sin & murderers! They'll probably toss the towel in after that & just give in. Will it all be worth the jail time...hell yeah!

[lrgarcia210]

The VDS house and property have both been searched, and a body under water, assuming the well has water, will not smell until it is brought up out of the water, and if it is 20 or 30 feet deep and has a concrete lid on it like a septic tank, the dead body smell will be non-existent.

I see CSI, and I read alot.

If a person dies in a well and it is not possible to take him out, the well should be sealed, and the well should be treated as his grave.

[lrgarcia210]

It is very obvious that all of you writing comments about nobody dumping a body into a household water well. It is supposed to be an abandoned water well, since Aruba is now on public water system, and as far as the smell of a dead body, what if it has a large concrete cover over it like our septic wells. Do you ever smell poop odors coming from a septic tank if it has a good cover.

I am sure the van der sloots are smart people who would not have an opened abandoned water well, if they were drinking it.

Come on people. I never said it was household water, I said it was an abandoned water well.

Any one care to wager on the stupidity of the van der sloots and the disposal of bodies into the ABANDONED WATER WELL.... YES, I SAID ABANDONED WATER WELL, NOT HOUSEHOLD DRINKING WATER.

[Loretta]

Followup to those persons who are trying to tell me about heaven and hell.

Have you ever died and come back to the living?

I have, and I know that if you kill someone, it is up to Jesus Christ to decide if you go to Heaven or Hell. I know that. I am not speaking about religion, I am speaking about taking someone's life, or the life of another of God's children.

So if you kill me, do you believe that God is going to take you into Heaven and spank you then let you live in Heaven.

You are sadly mistaken. I have seen the other side, and when you kill someone, you go to hell.

Some of you have made comments that you think I should go there. If you wish me death, then hell, you will be the one in line to be trying to climb out of hell, under Siberia, or maybe under your house.

You should ask God for forgiveness for wishing me evil. You ticket is waiting. Are you one of those fake people who overtalk religion to hide the fact that you are a devil worshipper?

When God takes me to be with Him in Heaven, I won't wait for you.