This Natalee Holloway Fiasco

Caribbean Net News: When is enough Natalee Holloway madness enough?.

Bravo! I wholeheartedly applaud psychologist Mr. Green, and the Aruban daily A.M. Digital. It was about time someone in Aruba, as well as here in the US, would have the “cojones” to call this Natalee Holloway fiasco for what it is.

And some letters to the editor here.

Comments

[clintcarter]

Makes a lot of valid points, got to give him that. Maybe more effective if he toned down a couple of the high notes.

Who is Dr. Green? don't remember.

[clintcarter]

The ping-pong perspectives in the letters is a kick.

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

"Natalee Holloway fiasco"

As far as I'm concerned, that one phrase alone tells me everything I care to know about the person who "penned" it!

This is not only about a young woman's life taken from a family, a community, a country; it is about several, maybe many, women who have been misused, if not all together assaulted.

The casual way it was first stated that she may "just turn up at some crack house as usual," was enough to show me the nature and extent of this now unfolding corrupt "business" --

Yes "a fiasco!"...

But more "an utterly disgusting fiasco!"

[P in S.E. Asia]

a fascinating article, i would say.

Soon everyone will see the writin on the wall.

[just an observer]

BRAVO!! excellent article and 100% accurate on all points. ::::applauding::::

[jamie]

Although I did not agree with Mr Green calling Natalee an "indecent young woman"I do agree Beth Twitty has gone way overboard and this has turned into a circus. I am no longer sure if Beth Twitty is on t.v. every day for Natalee or for herself and it is clear Greta Van Sustren is far too cozy with Beth to be "fair and balanced"

[Shari]

Where is NH Discussion board #148? Are we in time-out?

[MJM]

Now this was a nice factual article,

question: why would a girl who wants to report a rape need a lawyer?

[rick]

Can't hardly wait for my next trip to Aruba!!! One of the best places I've ever been to. El Gaucho, Cuba Cookin', love the entertainment there, the Dutch run steak house in Oranjestaad, the tiki huts, the beautiful water and even Tony Roma's ribs. Yeah, like I'm going to boycott the island. It's hard not to be sympathetic to the Holloway family, and I admit I am hooked on the soap opera presentation each night, but Beth Twitty's crackling, stumbling, whining voice is getting a little annoying. Don't see much of Dave, the real Holloway trooper, these days. The connection between Greta and BT may be deeper than we know, but I'm guessing it's all about the ratings. Hate the weekends now, not as much coverage. Too much time on my hands, I guess!

[Lorri]

A mother of a missing person going "overboard"......is there even such a thing when one's child is missing??? I dare say that you would go overboard as well if it were YOUR child!

[rons]

As in many "high profile" events there is a cross section of kooks, opportunist, and those with legitimate intentions--Example--Ever go to a NFL football game--you can find a cross section of drunks, inflated prices for food/drinks, and surprisely fans who come to watch the game. Mr. Green chooses to look at the game and see only drunks, and the inflated prices etc.---but being a psychologist I would expect more of a well rounded interpretation---awareness to possible future victims, understanding foreign laws in foreign countries, that a system of specific laws can affect the local economy, a mother's love for her daugther all can be summed up as "priceless"

[Mike]

The compassion here for a grieving mother is overwhelming.

What would you folks do go home and twitle your thumbs and rely on the Aruban investigators that took ten days even to get started?

[rons]

Some people do not have the fiber to sustain a long hard fought battle--they get bored or tired and move on--most of the Holloway supporters have bonded and willing to put up with (as has been said) Beth's whinning etc--we focus on the prize, "justice" and are not put off by the criticism--I much wiser and purer person than me once said "does one not leave the 99 safe sheep to hunt for the one lost sheep" (something to that affect)--meaning the value of one life is that important--

[moneymoo]

Jeez, you would think the guy could get his facts straight - he would make a great fiction writer.

[galloway/mojo]

Well now we are officially in the next cycle of this MEDIA fiasco, the backlash phase...and Mr. Rodriquez is just a cog in the wheel of the yellow journalism machine...nothing more.

It is inappropriate to place blame on Beth or her family who have naively thought they could manage the media to accomplish their goal which is simply to try to get their loved one back. The motive of the media, from network to blog...now that's a different story.

[I'maMomtoo]

I tend to agree with some aspects of the article. Enough is enough. This constant media coverage is getting nowhere. I know the family is grieving, but I don't think the Twittys have a shred of dignity left. I am very sorry this happened to Natalee, but, you know (to coin Beth's worn out phrase), these kinds of things don't generally happen to kids at church camp or on family vacations to the Grand Canyon. (Yes, I know Amy Bradley was on a family vacation, but there is controversy surrounding her possible motives for disappearing.) All the search teams and publicity in the world cannot make up for poor parental and personal discretion. I believe that is the case for these victims a majority of the time. (Perhaps if Shasta Groene's mother and mother's companion had not been so hopped up on drugs, they could have defended the family against Joseph Duncan when he attacked them.)
We should not malign Natalee's character when she cannot defend her actions. But we should remember that the old adage is true: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.
I am sure that Mrs. Twitty has only good intentions with her media barrage, but none of it has solved the case. They are no closer to that than they were on May 31. She has served only to make her daughter an open target for attacks on her character, and to open herself to attacks on her own misguided parenting. There are thousands of innocent missing kids in the U.S., who weren't partying unchaperoned on a tropical island with thugs when they disappeared. These people, and their grieving parents are being done a great injustice by the Twittys antics and the media's unparalleled coverage.
I remember the old TV commercials of my youth that said, "It's 10:00. Do you know where your children are?"
Yes I do. I always have, and always will. I take my parental responsibility seriously. I'm sorry that some parents don't until it's too late. The Twittys should stay in Aruba, or go to Venezuela, or anywhere they need to go, to search for their daughter. They should leave no stone unturned. However, they should do it with quiet resolve and dignity, and without the help of the ratings-driven agendas of the Greta and Nancy Grace types, if they want to preserve the honor and memory of their daughter.

[MF]

What would you folks do go home and twitle your thumbs and rely on the Aruban investigators that took ten days even to get started?

Posted by: Mike | Aug 25, 2005 8:34:58 AM

The official investigation began on Monday, 24 hours after her reported disappearance.

[Tricia]

Good morning!

[jgirl]

I think more and more most of us are in agreement. Though a terrible tragedy,and all would like no more than Natalee's safe return, the media
circus has gone too far, trying to dream things up. I have faith in the Aruban authorities, let them do their work, everyone else be quiet. Just because they don't put everything on the news as in the US, does not mean
they are not working. They know much more than anyone knows. And, the news in the prison?,come on, ridiculous. Most prisons have private tours.

[kiminFL]

The fiasco has been with the Aruban police department from day one. If people are sick of hearing about the failure to properly move forward with this investigation, change the channel on your television. The truth of the matter is that if the Twitty-Holloways never went to Aruba, what do you think would of been going on??

[GrannyToad]

It's too bad Mr Green didn't get parents like Dave & Beth.

[rons]

kiminFL

I with you--

These people act like someone has a gun to their head to follow this story--It is only through "freedom of speech" and the continued determination of those who seek justice that evil doesn't rule us to a larger degree--

This story has become an "icon" that exposes certain dangers when drug/alcohol/lax morals are put together--it has become much more than "one" missing person--in some ways it is "good" vs "evil" --and not to see the evil or deny it is to accept it--it is an opportunity for those who not only believe in a moral life style but stand up and be counted. Is Natalee totally pure or innocent of partying to the excess--probably not--
But sometimes we all need to be protected from our own actions--that's why we have laws, and people to enforce them

[Tricia]

Per my post yesterday afternoon. I have left a message for Natalee's step-sister to call me and give me some information for those interested to send emails, card or letters of encouragement. Is anyone interested?

[yoninadi]

re.KiminFL.my answer to question is,the aruba police and L.E. would be waiting for natalie to show up at a crack house or at any of their police stations or at the h.i.!

[jamie]

Yes I do. I always have, and always will. I take my parental responsibility seriously. I'm sorry that some parents don't until it's too late. The Twittys should stay in Aruba, or go to Venezuela, or anywhere they need to go, to search for their daughter. They should leave no stone unturned. However, they should do it with quiet resolve and dignity, and without the help of the ratings-driven agendas of the Greta and Nancy Grace types, if they want to preserve the honor and memory of their daughter.

Posted by: I'maMomtoo | Aug 25, 2005 9:22:41 AM

thank you very much someone with some sense about them finally

[kathy]

The investigation did not start 24 hours after Natalee was reported missing... maybe the coverup did.
If it weren't the coverage of this horrible case Beth and her family would have been home long ago...without Natalee or a body to bury!

[Hydrangea]

(I wonder what Beth’s “tab” would be, and how many decades of “Community Service” she and her husband “Jughead” would have to do on the island, were Aruba to ask for reimbursement from them as the City of Duluth, Georgia, did of Jennifer Wilbanks!).

Oh yeah, that's right... compare Natalee's disappearance to the "Missing Bride". HOW PROFESSIONAL IS THAT????

Jughead? HOW PROFESSIONAL IS THAT????

antics by Beth, her husband, and their menagerie seem like a “joke” worthy of a Marx brother’s film, or the Three Stooges?
Comparing Beth and her family to the Three Stooges HOW PROFESSIONAL IS THAT????

... keep the media’s attention on her (she may not like the reasons why she ‘s in the limelight, but she sure basks pleasantly in it...
OH YES I'M SURE SHE IS JUST BASKING...YOU ARE A F***KING MORON! (Sorry Dan this idiot has REALLY riled me up)!

Oh and by the way Mr Rodriguez can you say RUN ON SENTENCE?

[DeeDee]

Sent this letter to the editor of the paper. Would suggest others do the same! I agree with above poster that we may not be served justice in the Caymans either, should the need arise.

letter:
You article per Al, "When is the Holloway Madness Enough" is totally offensive. To repeatedly call this a Joke was insensitive. I would venture that should Mr. R have a daughter he could not give you a "price" for her. Why don't you ask him if he can put a "price" on his children, which is what he has done to Natalee Holloway. She is not worth the price he has tallied in his mind and per his opinion. Is this the position of your newspaper?

Also, he did not address the first NINE days of the investigation at all. Why would one go to this extreme stance without completely being honest in his reporting? How could you as an editor allow him to just "skip over that" fact of this investigation? Perhaps you should send a reporter to the Arabian law enforcement office and question them as to who did hinder the first nine days of the investigation. Now that would be a story. That would, in fact, justify the far reaching interest of those of us in America who saw from afar how one person could manipulate justice by allowing any perpetrator time to destroy all evidence. Do you comprehend that the bungling of the first two weeks is what drew American attention, not who or what was lost. Injustice is what captures America's attention. INJUSTICE.

You and your news crew would do well to study the crime journals and educate yourself on the value of the first 48 hours of an investigation. You would do well to write an article that addresses the lost days and the negative impact that those lost days did have on this tragedy. You would do well to consider the "fiasco" which surrounded the false information concerning the security guards. I will anxiously await a more balanced report of the truth about the investigation in Aruba from your newspaper.

[FEDUPPPPP]

I do not see anybody faulting the twitty-holloways for going to aruba or for utilizing the media to get the story into the public nor do I see much disagreement that the investigation was handled quite badly in the beggining but since then Aruba has been host to The Twitty's giving them room, board, meals, and more on a free tab out of courtesy to them They have received donations from all over the world, not to mention the influence of senators, other political figures, even Condaleeza Rice. They have high powered and deep pocketed "benefactors" coming out of the woodwork including a television and movie star to give more money to them. They have been aided by Dutch Marines, military jets, forensic divers, almost all the Arubian people who took days off from work to search, volunteer search teams, the FBI, DEA, and the list goes on and on. What other missing child or parents of that missing child could say this? None. Even Laci Peterson with her case in the media did not receive such things and her parents/family remained diginified and managed to stay out of the medis as well albeit a few short statements filled with emotion given. The time has long passed when the Twitty media storm is helpful. There is nothing new to report, each new "lead" is false and only generated for more publicity and Beth pulling stunts like going to someones job with a camera and satying for 90 minutes has nothing to do with anything except her wanting attention for her - quietly questioning Deepak Kalpoe alone would have gotten her far better results and she knows this. David Holloway, Natalees real father is the only one who has shown he can conduct himself with some dignity through this and find answers without making himself a star. It is high time people started to acknowledge that the egos of Beth, Jug, and the whole Mountain Brook crowd are harming this case just as much as any mistakes made by Arubian Law Enforcement and they are just as guilty of giving out false information.

[FloridaPatty]

Green can take his article. I do like the opinions section, very good points made in there with the last being my favorite.

Arubans take back your country. Be heard. The Holloway/Twittys are not your great problem.

[callmeBetty]

Thanks Dan. If every teenage boy could be prosecuted for "bad manners" (in the Southern sense anyways) and being rude/angry towards his mum while in jail, then you can come and get mine too! LOL

There has got to be more to this story than a date rape gone bad..........but 3 months of focused daily media attention on Aruba? Makes you wonder what the real story is. Not that we'll ever know the truth. LOTS of major drug busts going on down there since June 1st though, by Aruba/DEA AND Venezuela. Billions worth, by all estimates. There is an occasional article on each one in the MSM, but not much coverage.

[FloridaPatty]

FEDDUPPP are you high?

There is nothing new to report, each new "lead" is false and only generated for more publicity and Beth pulling stunts like going to someones job with a camera and satying for 90 minutes has nothing to do with anything except her wanting attention for her - quietly questioning Deepak Kalpoe alone would have gotten her far better results and she knows this

Right. And Joran never drank, he just fake sipped and pretended to swallow. He never gambled he just stood at the High Holdum table cause he liked the colors of the poker chips, he was only out til 2 in the morning on a school night because he was really doing research for a social studies paper for school, he didn't really MEAN he had sex with Natalee in fact right now, he's in jail for the experience of it. Hey, his dad even helped with this special little project of Jorans by asking if he could have a little more game time.

I heard Joran was sporting an Alfred Newman t-shirt.

"What me worry?"

[Tricia]

Just curious? What would anyone do different than the Holloway/Twitty's under the circumstances? Given the information that your daughter was missing. Knowing the last people she was with.

[rons]

FEDupppppp

People are complaining about the money/time spent on this case. Is there a scale somewhere where dollars spent has a break even rate of return--
If the sole basis of seeking justice is to only spend money/time to a defined point then you are not seeking justice-This story has become a "cause for justice" --why:

1) teenage girl missing
2) suspects related to political/law structure
3) the look of cover-up
4) backdrop of drugs/porn/alcohol/gambling
5) high profile islanders involved
6) secercy, secercy, secercy--appearance and opportunity for cover-up
7) the volume of coincidences--
a) casino dealer gone
b) prime minsters relative leaves
c) headless corpse
d) lying suspects
e) chief of police godfather of suspect
f) arresting two innocent people like cowboys
g) vacationing prosecutors, government closing for two weeks, judges missing planes for court appearances, witnesses disappearing, 9 days of freedom for suspects-
h) restricting searches and not protecting scenes of crime/evidence
i) cyrtic poems by Shango
j) local newspaper Diario reporting daily the new turns
k) defense attorneys revealing info --
l) permitting MSM to tour prison then charge with illegal acts.

Yet many choose to focus on Beth and MSM--it is easy to see which side of the fence a person is on---if you are bored with the story then you are looking for entertainment and not resolution for Beth/Dave/Jug

[DennisAOK]

Conveniently missing in Mr. rodriguez's article, of course, is any mention of the failure to detain the last three people seen with Natalee for ten days; the failure to put the three boys under tight supervision while they were free (admitted by van der Straten); the arrest and detention of the security guards on flimsy evidence; the lack of aggressive follow up questioning when interrogating the boys; and the placement of the three suspects together, rather than separating them and aggressively pursuing their contradictions. I am sure more evidence of lazy and sloppy police work will surface when and if the Holloways and Twittys start talking. As has been said many times, this case would have been swept under the rug had not Natalee's famiily, and their US supporters, raised a fuss. If you want peace, Aruba, give us justice!

[quietlyreading]

rons, good observation...Feduuuup sounds like Calista.

[dalejrfan]

Good Morning All, What happened to the discussion boards? I checked in this morning as I always do, but don't see any "discussion" boards left on here....

[Hydrangea]

Dalejrfan, go to the blue sidebar. Under the Category heading click on Natalee Holloway chat. Dan may be doing maintenance to the main page.

[endthemadness]

August 18, 2005
How FOX News Exploits The Troops
At about 48 minutes into the hour of Hannity & Colmes (8/17/05), FOX News ran a promo with stirring photos of soldiers - one holding a baby, another greeting what looks like an Iraqi child - as the words "Commitment," "Hope," "Future" were written on the screen. Then "Real Journalism Fair and Balanced, FOX News Channel" took up the next screen. Yet, while FOX News was willing to take advantage of the troops for its network promo, it was not willing to devote a minute of Hannity & Colmes to the mission in Iraq. For those who may have seen the show and thought they knew everything of importance that happened yesterday, Wednesday was one of the deadliest days in Baghdad in a month as three car bombs during rush hour killed 43 and wounded 88.

But hey, if they talked about Iraq, it might take time away from Natalee Holloway.

Reported by ellen at August 18, 2005 02:1

[R Nelson]

The truly amazing thing here, those who complain about the Holloways don't have to listen to them if they choose not to. There are literally hundreds of television channels to choose from. Find another station. Ignore her.Those of us with compassion couldn't care less how she comes across. Ever hear the expression, don't shoot the messenger? There's trouble in paradise.

[Tricia]

R. Nelson

I agree.

[calista]

rons, good observation...Feduuuup sounds like Calista.

Posted by: quietlyreading | Aug 25, 2005 11:09:10 AM

well, good morning to you too -I see people are still taking cheap shots even when someone is not even here yet to defend themselves surprise surprise!!!! I just read through all the todays posts - this article was written by someone just responding to the newspaper article wasn't it not by a professional journalist? I thought it was but don't know for sure? I also just read somewhere that the other "victim" of Jorans is suing him and his family is that true or is she pressing criminal charges?

[dalejrfan]

Thanks!

[DennisAOK]

R Nelson,

Liberals are never happy allowing people to make their own choices. They think people need to be instructed in the proper ways of thinking - their way.

Tricia,

Sorry you joined us right before the discussion board closed. It may re-open. Please do tell us how we might show support for the family.

[calista]

does anyone know the address for sending donations to dave holloway or support cards etc?

[rick]

R. Nelson: No one is complaining about the Holloways, it's the Twittys. We like the Holloways, Linda Allison and especially Arlene Ellis Schipper. FEDupppppp's comments sound pretty good. Joran and company are still innocent until the judges make their final decision whether you like it or not. this is still Dutch Rule!!!!

[giving it some thought]

I've given it some thought--about why Beth and group are getting criticism. Even I get irritated from time to time by them, and it is hard to figure out why. After all my sympathy is with them in trying to find their daughter. I think it all boils down to a couple of things. 1. Beth and group have not discussed how responsbile they must feel for letting her go on the trip. Beth is a good Mom, and you know she must feel enormous guilt and remorse over this. The "if onlies" must keep her awake at night. 2. Beth and group are trying to portray the perfect image of their daughter, when it is glaringly obvioius that Natalee was a normal teenager--smart, pretty but not perfect.3 Beth does not seem angry with the MB kids or the chaperones. I would bet that she is seethingly angry with them and will grow more so over time. I think Beth has avoided 1, 2 and 3 becasue she wants the attention to be on whoever did this to her daughter. She doesn't want to distract the LE or media by giving anyone the out of saying "Well, she shouldn't let her daughter go" and "Natalee was doing shots and left with boys she didnt know so its her own fault" or "The friends should not have let her go" I think she is dealing will all those issues, but her focus is clear. Find who did this to my daughter. However it might bring sympathy back around to her by those who are being distanced if Beth did talk about some of those things. Take responsbility for letting her daughter go on a party trip. yell at the chaperones and friends. and say, yes looks like Natalee was her own person and No, I can't say for sure that she wouldn't be belly shots. But I love rer and want her back. Same thing could be said for the pregnant woman, Latoya, who was just found. She became pregnant out of wedlock and perhaps the guy felt trapped by this. Is getting pregnant her fault? somewhat. Did she and her baby deserved this, Absolutely not. But I didnt' see anyone slamming her for getting pregnant.

[Tricia]

I am waiting on a return call from Natalee's sister. I have been involved in several fundraisers in supporting the Natalee Holloway Recovery Fund. My daughters cheerleading squad has helped in taking donations in exchange for the Faith, Hope and Prayer for Natalee bracelets. I have some available. They are available in blue (which is Natalee's favorite color), orange and glow in the dark green. I want to get permission from her step sister before I do anything. I am sure it will be OK to make these available to those who are interested. These bracelets are available for a $5.00 donation. All of the proceeds go to the Recovery Fund at AmSouth Bank. The family does not use this money for personal needs. It is strictly used for expenses occured in the search as well as the Reward Money. I am also going to ask her where cards, letters and emails can be sent. I visited the Wall of Hope this weekend and there is a book at that site which contains emails, letters, etc. Be patient with me on obtaining this info. She has been very busy trying to work as well as being responsible for a lot of things going on here in the U.S. I do know that Beth has been very appreciative of all the cards, etc. It somewhat refuels her to keep going.

[calista]

tRICIA DO YOU HAVE ANY INFO ON GETTING SUPPORT/DONATIONS TO dAVE OR IF HE IS AIDED BY THE tWITTY FUND ALSO? Ooops sorry caps was on accident :(

[kiminfl]

Dave Holloway

Trustmark Bank
Natalee Holloway Fund
700 23rd Ave.
Meridian, Miss. 39301
or at any Trustmark branch in Mississippi.
The contact phone #(601) 693-2431