The Mountain Brook Kids Are Lying and What About the FBI?

I've seen enough of the MBHS kids, Beth Twitty, etc are lying in my comments area - I may as well address it here on the main page.

That notion is an illusion, most likely based upon a tendency to see a conspiracy sitting atop every grassy knoll. I've spoken to people on all sides of this enough to believe it isn't the case at all. If you take that particular story apart and look at the facts as we know them - it doesn't hold up.

First, the MBHS kids were not some monolithic bunch who moved about in one pack. As with any high school, there are different groups and even layers of groups within the greater whole; and that's certainly true of any group of kids numbering well over one hundred.

Did some MBHS likely meet and know the suspects prior to the last night of the trip? Probably so.

Do others honestly believe they never met them until the last night of the trip? Yep. Because it's probably true.

It has been stated time and time again that Natalee did move in between groups to some extent, as did many of the kids on that trip. No conspiracy ... no great lie, or lying - just the truth from several different perspectives as it is known to those individuals. And that includes Beth Twitty, who likely has heard conflicting accounts from MBHS kids herself, but possibly better understands the dynamics than do many following the case.

Are there things that some MBHS kids might prefer not come out? That wouldn't surprise me, as I know were I a kid on the trip, I'd probably be feeling the same way. That's a far cry from some great conspiracy. It's human nature and, more importantly, adolescent human nature - and by no means limited to teenagers.

A word about television appearances. I've seen so much said about the MBHS kids television appearances, frankly, it's boring. You sit or stand around and wait - forever; then they strap you up, push you on stage and start peppering you with questions and no amount of pre-production preparation helps.

You're unsure of where to look, how to speak, what to say - and the talking head has a script and often an agenda you know nothing about. If you aren't seasoned in the media - any appearance short of a total meltdown is a wonderful success. And you invariably walk away thinking of the 200 things you wished you had said or done, as opposed to what transpired.

All this nonsense about a tremendous secrecy or conspiracy on the part of the MBHS kids and the Twitty/Holloway family is a bunch of overdone thought born of the growing frustration with events in Aruba.

To cut it short and maybe start another discussion - one that is passed due - where is the FBI? While I realize they are encumbered by the Dutch system of justice, if you ask me, they aren't doing a good job of communicating with the American people most interested in this case.

They don't have to give details - but, the fact is, they are saying nothing at all, so far as I can tell. We pay their salaries - they are supposed to be an agency of the US government and it is well-passed the time when they should have at least something to say to us as to how they feel about events in Aruba. Their silence certainly isn't doing anything to lessen the concern of the American people as regards the investigation and it's progress.

I believe it was Senator Shelby and perhaps another who demanded they become involved, perhaps it's time he, or someone demands that they also do their job as regards some relating to the public that foots the bill for their entire agency. Their public relations throughout this ordeal has been a dismal failure. And I am not buying the excuse that they can't say anything -  now, that's a lie.

Comments

[Berry]

About the presumed non-involvement by any of the tour party in Natalee's disappearance. I would agree they probably don't have anything to do with it - but I would not say that I know that for sure. It does seem if the prime suspects are in the clear, then persons known to Natalee on the tour need to be examined closely, in the off chance she encountered someone and a situation, we are unaware of, escalated.

[TexasGal]

Edward, Edward, Edward you sound very bitter and not at all well informed on 18 year olds. Of course that is JMO.

[DennisAOK]

The other two, to my knowledge have not stepped froward (yet) to let us know why they didn't notice N wasn't in.

Posted by: Augusta | August 7, 2005 07:01 PM

They did notice she wasn't in, but didn't think anything was amiss because many students were spending time in other students' rooms.

This case is over and the only people who don't know it are Beth and Greta. It's August in DC and everyone is on vacation. This story is now stale and something else will pique the national interest. It's coming and it is right under the surface.

Posted by: Sometimes I wonder | August 7, 2005 04:21 PM

Some of us want to se justice done, regardless of the popularity of the case.

leeza,

I didn't say the case was a strong one, only that it was being looked at. I doubt Paulus' has much of a case, either. Thanks!

[JailLess1]

Well said Dan!

[edward]

TexasGal:
Whatever sweetie... I can only report on what
I see for myself.... It's really disappointing
how children are raised today... buts how I see
it........

[MBMom2]

Linda,

I appreciate your concern. And yes ... maybe I am too close to this case. But here are some differences. Yes, I believe in my child BUT ... if I believe my child was involved in a crime, I would NOT cover for him. It is obvious PVDS will do whatever it takes to protect Joran ... he as much said so. I believe that he is involved as well. Yes, I'm sure it must be hard on Anita Van der Sloot ... but do you know what the difference is? They at least know where they can go to find Joran. The Holloway/Twitty family don't have that luxury. They are desperately searching for their daughter. Maybe I'd have a little more compassion if the three (really 4 counting PVDS) involved had not changed their story SO many times. The question remains ... why would PVDS say "No body, no crime" if he didn't think a crime had been committed? I do pray every night for Joran. I pray that he will realize all the pain he has caused the Holloway/Twitty family ... even if he's not involved (wink, wink), he certainly has lied way too many times.

[annie]

Well Dan, I believe some of this is true, but I also believe that the FBI do NOT owe us anything. Yes, you are right that the American public are "footing" some of the bill on this, but that said, they still don't owe us anything. The only thing they owe us is a resolution. Sometimes that resolution can be risky and if they say too much, it can risk of the life of the one person they are trying to save. While everyone wants to know what is going on, my main motivation in this is to see a young girl returned home to her family (even if it is just her remains). I don't want to see anyone else's life jeopardized and I certainly would not want Natalee's jeopardized should she still be alive. So, I am going to disagree on that point.

I do agree that there are discrepancies and perhaps some PR work being done by the family and the MB kids about Natalee, but that STILL does not warrant her disappearance and whatever else has happened to her since. I am actually getting a bit weary of hearing about how the family is this or that and the MB kids are "stepford kids" or liars. Face it, no one but those involved in the kidnapping and whatever else has happened to her are responsible for what happened to Natalee. While it can provide some information as to her state of mind and condition prior to the incident, it still doesn't justify any means.

I know many may disagree with me, but that is just how I feel about this. Everyone is so intent on solving the mystery that they seem to have forgotten about Natalee herself. That is what I find most disturbing! I wish the focus would be back on her and either rescuing her or recovering her remains.

JMO.

[TexasGal]

TexasGal:
Whatever sweetie... I can only report on what
I see for myself.... It's really disappointing
how children are raised today... buts how I see
it........

Posted by: edward

I have to priviledge of spending lots of time with teenagers from different backgrounds and although many are not perfect angels they certainly are not all selfish, uncaring, bloodthirsty trogladytes that you seem to want to categorize them as. Just doesn't cut it with me sweetie.

[edward]

I employ some of these kids from time to
time and it's no privilege...

[TexasGal]

I employ some of these kids from time to
time and it's no privilege...

Posted by: edward

If that is truly your attitude, I would imagine that it is no picnic for them either.

[TexasGal]

Sorry Dan....I really really tried hard.

[fried]

that was a very good post dan, i think the FBI are doing all they can, i also feel that the Aruban authorities ae releasing the information that their system allows. actually the FBI probably are enjoying
the lack of information releases. that only hinders any case. the US sysytem allows the defense to know what the prosecution has, but allows the prosecution little knowledge of the defense case. as to the MB kids, i do not feel that Natalee was that close to any of them, i think her closest friends were far away. That would explain why she was not missed any sooner.

keep up the good work,Dan. you are a voice of reason in an otherwise unreasonable world. we need you to maintain a smidgen of sanity.

[Rammstein]

the FBI has been granted access by a dutch judge, if they violate the rules of that judge/the rules of the investigation under dutch law they will be endangering the investigation and would lead to the judge denying them any further access or co-operation.

[leeza]

DennisAOK - okay, thanks. Please let me know how it goes. I also never believed for a second that the Kalpoes or van der Sloots had a libel claim, or any other claim. We're still looking through the Dutch code at work, so if anything turns up, I'll let you know. Also, we sent out a notice to see if there is anyone with international legal credentials who may be able to help the Twittys. I've never been a Jug Twitty fan (he can come across as kind of arrogant), but he seemed so emotionally broken at the last interview I saw, that I don't see why attorneys aren't stepping up to help that family.

[Psychic]

Dannyboy, the FBI doesnt answer to you; frankly in most investigations they dont release information to the public; they likely are telling the HT family alot but are telling them not to divulge the info to the public; thats how the fbi does things danny; why should the US public need to know the sensitive aspects of an ongoing investigation? They dont; Get off your soapbox. Let these people do their job; You do not need to know the details; In due time you and the rest of the public will; You are way off base on this one Danny

[bamaguy11]

Thanks alot Dan

Your hard work is greatly appreciated.

[AZ]

Edward,

Would you by chance live somewhere in Arizona? You just described the teen scene down here. It's obvious education and common sense are mere afterthoughts in the "Big Hole in the Ground" state.

[vincent]

Edward~

That was very well said, and I agree with much of it. Through no fault of their own, these kids ARE raised by "bigscreen tvs", as you said. It's so odd how they all dress like they're Britney and Whatshisface and everyday's a rave. (If I dressed like that as a teen, I wouldn't be going anywhere unless I made my parent's "go missing")

And that "dance" of rolling their big butts around is crazy! WHAT IS THAT??!? Whatever happened to shuffling your feet and staring up at the ceiling? lol

I wouldn't want to be a teen now if you paid me. (put me back to 33 and I'll pay YOU!)

Maybe it's time they teach compassion in daycare, and manners by kindergarten? Somebody's gotta do it before it's a nation of sociopaths.

Thanks for the nice post, Edward:)

[edward]

AZ:

My good man don't despair.... it's the same here in the North East..
We should move to Texas ( the big Mouth State) and pretend what wonderful
parents and children there are there.....

[frenchymom]

Texas Girl....
I liked it!

[leeza]

Vincent and others: I agree with what you guys are saying 100% percent about a lot of teens today. It just stuns me every time I think about this case that no one, especially the roomies, noticed Natalee was missing until 10 am the next day. I was a teenager once (Nixon was in office) and in my group one would NEVER go anywhere without the others. Trust me, it wasn't because we were all angels! Not piling on, but why didn't this group have at least one "designated driver"? Even if we were taking cabs, my group always had one sober person to make certain that bar bills were paid and everyone got home okay. Is there no rules for teenagers today?

[revoorg]

I'm curoius why noone seems to care about the fact that Joran was 17 and easily gambling and drinking? Isn't the legal age 18? If his father is a "wanna be judge" - shouldn't someone take pause that this man was allowing his underage son to gamble and drink - even having a "line of credit" and a bar tab...who was paying for this? His father? Unknown associates? this really bothers me yet whenever it is mentioned reporters, even Greta, just seem to glaze over it?

[nursemind]

Hey Dan.....this isn't the ONLY case the FBI has to work on. Remember such a thing as terrorists? Here on the homeland. And do you have any idea how many missing persons there are right now in the US? This is still a missing person case in Aruba.

[NC greenbean]

Wow-sounds like "down on kids" day here. Are either of you guys parents? I think there are some bad apples in the barrel, but they're not all rotten! I do feel,however,that the world is moving sooo fast nowadays-how can some of these poor kids keep up? (worst thing I feared at 15 was dad seeing my ears were pierced by my friends' sister,after I was told explicitly Not to get them pierced!) NC greenbean

[Dolphin]

Maybe the FBI is very cautious not to interfere with Aruba LE because it needs information from them for the anti-drug effort in this region? It would explain why they are so silent... political issues.. If true, very bad for the case..

[vincent]

NCGreenbean~

Yes the world is too fast, and that's exactly the point. I'm not down on kids, just what they're like due to this crazy world!

When I was a kid, pierced ears were a HUGE issue, too. Now, every other kid's arm is completely tatooed, and girls pierce everything that can possibly take a hole. Of course they don't stop to think they'll grow tired of it, and that someday tattoos will be totally out of style. But, their parent's know, and still they don't stop them. We were kept in line, I guess. (tho, I never liked tattoos as a teen..meant you were a sailer)

Anyway, not bashing kids as much as the way they're coming up.

[MrsJimiHendrix]

ONE TROLL'S BANNED
TWO POP UP!!

[SupportOurTroops]

Dan,
I continue to follow this. Thanks for all your time and hard work! I've been following from the beginning. God Bless America!

Vincent,
girls pierce everything that can possibly take a hole......if you have nothing intelligent to say......say nothing....or at least think before speaking/typing

MrsJH,
Bingo......two pop up.......back to just Mrs JH, uhhhh:0) Had fun following rock and roll night

[SupportOurTroops]

Whatever sweetie... I can only report on what
I see for myself.... It's really disappointing
how children are raised today... buts how I see
it........

Posted by: edward

Do you have children? Where all do you see children/teenagers? I have traveled many places in this WORLD and continue to and there is good and bad of most everything in life, everywhere.....good and bad. Therefore, I'm saying there are some really good kids/teenagers in this WORLD and I know several myself, right here in the US.

[Roy]

I'm curoius why noone seems to care about the fact that Joran was 17 and easily gambling and drinking? Isn't the legal age 18? If his father is a "wanna be judge" - shouldn't someone take pause that this man was allowing his underage son to gamble and drink - even having a "line of credit" and a bar tab...who was paying for this? His father? Unknown associates? this really bothers me yet whenever it is mentioned reporters, even Greta, just seem to glaze over it?

Posted by: revoorg | August 7, 2005 11:17 PM

These aspects were already discussed.
I do agree with you on all points.

[Soap]

Beth Twitty is putting a terrible pressure on those kids. They have told her all they know and now she wants them to change the story. I wonder if some of the parents are considering filing restraining orders to prevent Beth or the media from further contacting their children.

[jgirl]

Kids everywhere do things underage, and that has gone on for years. What
happened to Natalee is tragic and unforgivable. Will we ever really know?
A well knownn Psychic claims that contrary to what everyone thinks, it will
come out that the wrong people are being accused. Jug seems mean, it doesnt
seem that Natalee needed to be coached into shaping up. I wonder what Dave
thinks of that. We have no idea of all the details at this time, can only
pray for the family, and hope for a miracle. The interview of the three MB girls reveals little, they should be left alone.

[JL]

i think the point is...keep them off the news....they add nothing on tv.

[revoorgk]

>Kids everywhere do things underage, and that has gone on for years.<

I'm not commenting on what underage kids do - i.e. Joran drinking, gambling - I'm commenting on why it doesn't seem that the Aruban authorities have any concern over the fact that a "would be" judge's son has a credit line at a casino. Illegal is illegal and law enforcement and judges and their families should be held to a higher standard - imho. It just bothers me terribly that the authorities don't seem to have a concern for this - To me it seems that if the father condones this behavior then what else does he approve of?

If the father is not footing the gambling bills then who is? Where does a 17 year old get that kind of money ???

It's not a judgement it's a question!

[dcrete]

"A well knownn Psychic claims that contrary to what everyone thinks, it will
come out that the wrong people are being accused."

I have oftenwondered if Joran is refusing to say what he knows so he can cover his ego from the public humiliation he would undergo if he admitted he did nothing to help NH on the beach that night, while watching her in desperate need of it but instead just turned tail and ran?

So to keep his cowardice covered, he continues to let the T/H families remained tortured.

[Justice4All]

Sadly, I think we may never find Natalee,
PVDS said "no body no crime". He is a smart of some sorts, why would he say that, he must know that they will not find a body. He must of taken care that a body will not be found.