The Mountain Brook Kids Are Lying and What About the FBI?

I've seen enough of the MBHS kids, Beth Twitty, etc are lying in my comments area - I may as well address it here on the main page.

That notion is an illusion, most likely based upon a tendency to see a conspiracy sitting atop every grassy knoll. I've spoken to people on all sides of this enough to believe it isn't the case at all. If you take that particular story apart and look at the facts as we know them - it doesn't hold up.

First, the MBHS kids were not some monolithic bunch who moved about in one pack. As with any high school, there are different groups and even layers of groups within the greater whole; and that's certainly true of any group of kids numbering well over one hundred.

Did some MBHS likely meet and know the suspects prior to the last night of the trip? Probably so.

Do others honestly believe they never met them until the last night of the trip? Yep. Because it's probably true.

It has been stated time and time again that Natalee did move in between groups to some extent, as did many of the kids on that trip. No conspiracy ... no great lie, or lying - just the truth from several different perspectives as it is known to those individuals. And that includes Beth Twitty, who likely has heard conflicting accounts from MBHS kids herself, but possibly better understands the dynamics than do many following the case.

Are there things that some MBHS kids might prefer not come out? That wouldn't surprise me, as I know were I a kid on the trip, I'd probably be feeling the same way. That's a far cry from some great conspiracy. It's human nature and, more importantly, adolescent human nature - and by no means limited to teenagers.

A word about television appearances. I've seen so much said about the MBHS kids television appearances, frankly, it's boring. You sit or stand around and wait - forever; then they strap you up, push you on stage and start peppering you with questions and no amount of pre-production preparation helps.

You're unsure of where to look, how to speak, what to say - and the talking head has a script and often an agenda you know nothing about. If you aren't seasoned in the media - any appearance short of a total meltdown is a wonderful success. And you invariably walk away thinking of the 200 things you wished you had said or done, as opposed to what transpired.

All this nonsense about a tremendous secrecy or conspiracy on the part of the MBHS kids and the Twitty/Holloway family is a bunch of overdone thought born of the growing frustration with events in Aruba.

To cut it short and maybe start another discussion - one that is passed due - where is the FBI? While I realize they are encumbered by the Dutch system of justice, if you ask me, they aren't doing a good job of communicating with the American people most interested in this case.

They don't have to give details - but, the fact is, they are saying nothing at all, so far as I can tell. We pay their salaries - they are supposed to be an agency of the US government and it is well-passed the time when they should have at least something to say to us as to how they feel about events in Aruba. Their silence certainly isn't doing anything to lessen the concern of the American people as regards the investigation and it's progress.

I believe it was Senator Shelby and perhaps another who demanded they become involved, perhaps it's time he, or someone demands that they also do their job as regards some relating to the public that foots the bill for their entire agency. Their public relations throughout this ordeal has been a dismal failure. And I am not buying the excuse that they can't say anything -  now, that's a lie.

Comments

[MrsJonBonJoviakaSkeeter]

Thank you Dan

[seedyrum]

I still defend the MBHS but the 3 they had on friday night made me take pause.

Its the same 3 who are always on and they basically said the same thing (never seen JVDS)

However when Greta keeps showing those girls saying nothing and I had to wonder why show them with basically the same answers.

Like Greta continues talking about the monkey, there has been many mention of the monkey on her blog.

Perhaps, Greta is giving the viewers a subliminal message.
So I research for another purpose and found Beth's with regard to knowing JVDS.

I dont care that they knew him or not unless it becomes relevant as to why Natalee ended up in the car with the 3 criminals.

I wondered why the FBI hasnt said more to and i was about to comment on that.

However, last night Beth was pretty upbeat and her voice was strong when asked had the FBI spoken to her, she replied, Yes but she couldnt comment on that. Let the FBI speak."

Karin Janssen recuse yourself
People with nothing to hide hide nothing

[FloridaPatty]

Dan, I think we are so use to hearing things about investigations here in the states that we expect the same to happen on this island. If I've learned anything from this case it's that what I would expect as business as usual elsewhere....isn't. I think the FBI, no I'm quite certain the FBI communicates daily with the ones they need to communicate with, Beth Twitty for one. She stated so much in one of her interviews how the FBI had been wonderful in briefing her daily and even calling at all hours waking her up in the event something comes in. But I don't think Beth is able to speak her mind completely regarding the Aruban government/LE/attorney. Case in point, earlier on FOX Beth Twitty commented on how pleased she was with the prosecuter in Aruba, but Jug said quite the opposite in his interview on Geraldo last night (Saturday). Clearly it's not one group, it's a mess that will probably hinder the recovery of Natalee. I suspect those responsible will prefer to keep it that way. It deflects the attention off the key players, spreads the ineptness all the way around and gets tongues wagging at the wrong folks. Rather than supporting eachother, we turn on one another and point fingers of accusations at, of all people, the Mountain Brook high school graduates on the trip! The rest of their lives these kids will have to live with the fact that someone in their graduating class disappeared on what was to be the end of the old and the beginning to a new phase in their lives. Just think about this for a moment, their 10th year high school reunion. What is it they will remember?

[TS]

How about it FBI? What the hell is going on down there in Aruba?

[iremember]

Hi Dan
Just wanted to thankyou for another post which states my own thoughts about this better than I ever could.

[Mrs. Sir Paul(((AG)))]

Well said, Dan. It is time for the FBI to earn their salaries. Some update from them is overdue.

[Sam]

You said it very well Dan. With a group that size it is only normal to split into smaller groups. So what one person sees and another sees are not neccesarily the same. I also agree that there is no reason for the students to tell us or the world what they they did or did not do. I imagine they have not told there parents everything. Just as we didn't. Just as long as they told the FBI all relevant information. JMHO.
Sam

[*flo*]

However, last night Beth was pretty upbeat and her voice was strong when asked had the FBI spoken to her, she replied, Yes but she couldnt comment on that. Let the FBI speak."
Posted by: seedyrum | August 7, 2005 02:12 PM

Since the FBI currently has access to evidence, lets hope soon we will hear from them. If we don't, could be something serious enough which would jeopardize this investigation?

[Dan]

Based on some conversations, I think they've told the FBI far more than anyone else, including their parents. Most understand that, I hope. Also, I don't expect the FBI to give details - just say something for heaven's sake. Last - I have it on good authority that some, if not many of the MB kids - some I have seen slammed here and there - are paying a heavy price for this already. Piling on doesn't help - IMO.

[mona]

If the FBI were to speak publically it would most likely implicate the Aruban LE..the Aruban Govt(Rupert "We've spent millions on this investigation!")and cause no end of fingerpointing and useless accusations. The FBI only needs to keep the family informed.

[berry]

Then if allowances are appropriate for the MB teens, I am also comfortable applying the same discomfort standard to Joran. If he did not want to fess up initially, then perhaps it was because he was uncomfortable admitting he was AWOL on a school night, admitting he picked up and drove around with a pretty American tourist, whose parents were now demanding answers and admitting possible intimate activity. That's enough to make anyone squirm and offer up the easiest way out - "Hey, don't look at us. We dropped her off at her hotel!"

That outranks any perceived embarrassment the MB teens might have felt, if their parents were to suddenly learn they were goofing around, somewhat irresponsibly, perhaps, while on vacation.

I dont' hold out much hope for the FBI to blab case details. They are trying to win the trust of Aruban LE - not compromise it.

[berry]

Also, I thought about something today. Does anyone know when LE first talked to Satish? Deepak and Joran were on site when the Twitty group arrived and the BIG lie emerged. But where was Satish? At what point did Satish learn the party line and actually utter it to LE?

And also speaking of the burden and despair borne by the MB teens - didn't we also learn that Joran spent much of his time crying over his situation and saying he "Hoped to God Natalee would be found OK"?

On the chance he might not have harmed Natalee as he insists, imagine the deep frustration, embarrassment and guilt and fear Joran is feeling.

[Susie]

I think, up until only days ago, the FBI hasnt been allowed to do anything but walk around "look" important and not much else. I really dont see that the FBI could have anything to say. What have they been allowed to do, what have they been allowed to see, have they spoken to anybody, have the been allowed to investigate anything??? From what I get off the t.v., the answer to that is a big fat NO. And the Aruban Gov. would like very much to keep it that way. If I were an officer on the Aruban force there are more than a few things Id be very scared of when it comes to the FBI and their ability to investigate. 1) my own incompitence 2)the obvious cover-up 3) the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude, and lastly, the painfully obvious "We couldnt care less" attitude!! An officer being interviewed stated, "I dont think she's on the island". When asked what would make him say such a thing, his reply, "It's just my feeling". The Kalpoe's mother said, "I feel she's still alive". When asked what would make her think that she said, "Its just a feeling I have". There seems to be alot of people with alot of feelings over there and the one they're refusing to admitt to is, "They just dont give a damn"!!!

[mariaK]

Dan - do you know the extent of the FBI contingent in Aruba working on this? I ask because I know of several prominant fiscal conservatives (i.e. Monica Crowley) who are speaking out against the FBI getting into the Aruba case, except to give guidance and assistance. Actually, when Monica hosted "The Situation", the entire panel, including one of 'em libruls we hear 'bout, were opposed to further FBI involvement. Maybe that is why the FBI isn't being vocal. It's a fine line to meet everybody's demands.

[GrannyToad]

That outranks any perceived embarrassment the MB teens might have felt, if their parents were to suddenly learn they were goofing around, somewhat irresponsibly, perhaps, while on vacation.

I dont' hold out much hope for the FBI to blab case details. They are trying to win the trust of Aruban LE - not compromise it.

Posted by: berry | August 7, 2005 02:37 PM

I strongly disagree with your position on the MB kids vs Joran. They are not party to whatever happened to Natalee, they are not being held for any crime nor should they be. The investigation of what became of Natalee makes them a huge & valuable resource because they exist, not because of anything they chose to do or not do. That in no way ought to vicimize them jointly nor individually.

You, or any one or more of us here could also have been a casual witness of this or some other disappearance or crime in passing.

Joran's actions, those of his father and also the Kalpoes, and as the case reveals others as well ARE open to any scrutiny we can give them because of actions each individual alone chose to take that inserted them into this investigation.

Chose.

[chance]

Has it ever been stated exactly what powers the FBI will have in this case, if any? I know they are being allowed to see the evidence and statements made by those involved, but will they be able to steer the investigation at all? Were they not able to observe before? I had heard on the news that they have always had at least one FBI guy there as an observer. So what has changed with the new ruling - just allowing them to see some of the evidence that was denied to them previously?

[frenchymom]

It is a fact that innocent individuals are occasionally convicted of crimes they did not commit. Googling for "wrongly convicted freed" or "imprisoned man freed dna" or many other combination of words will produce results on this topic.

Just this past week in Pennsylvania a man was freed when DNA evidence cleared him after 18 years in prison. Ironically, he could have been released on parole several times before had he been willing to take responsibility for a crime he did not commit.

I believe, like all of you that Joran and Deepak are involved in Natalee's disappearance. I agree PVDS appears to be slimy and doesn't give a warm, fuzzy feeling to anyone. That being said, I can't help but wonder how these teens, botched investigation or not, have not cracked or turned on each other to free themselves, have not left a shred of evidence, etc after almost three months.

I don't like it anymore than the next person but I acknowlege that there is a 10% chance that Joran was not the one that actually killed or irreparably harmed Natalee. I simply cannot in my mind convict him 100% without evidence or a valid confession (not one he gave in a moment of weakness because like a baby, he wanted to go home.)

Could all of the focus on Joran and Deepak by NH's family pushing the police in that direction, etc have done the opposite, and pushed them away from looking at other potential individuals? say someone who really might have known something? Just playing devil's advocate and wondering about what we could all be missing....

On occasion, innocent people are convicted. My only wish is that Natalee be found, one way or the other. Having individuals rightfully convicted of that crime would be icing on the cake.

Melanie

[Paulo]

Once again Dan SPOT ON!!

There is no doubt what frustrates most people in America is the lack of information that surrounds this case. I believe this notion to be of special importance to the FBI; furthermore, the Aruban and Dutch LE are literally shooting themselves in the feet by denying anything let out pursuant to this case. Just a small look at the job they have done, or not done, one would think they would be screaming for assistance.

Americans are used to an open judicial system. Heck, even a Court ordered gag order is viewed as almost an obstruction of justice. My interpretation of the Dutch system is it presents fertile ground for graft and corruption.

With no checks and balances in accordance of the case being heard by only a judge lends itself to the notion of fairness. Americans have this strong sense of judicial openness. Moreover, they have a very strong sense of equity, justice, and fair treatment. Somehow one must feel “a part of” what has made America different from all other nations including a government that must be accountable.

Subsequently, anytime facts, leads, or anything evidentiary is withheld from people who have either a personal vested interest or even those who see a compatriot being shafted by others somehow awakens this idea of equity, justice, and every good course.

Paulo

[angelaberdine]

Dan - do you know the extent of the FBI contingent in Aruba working on this? I ask because I know of several prominant fiscal conservatives (i.e. Monica Crowley) who are speaking out against the FBI getting into the Aruba case, except to give guidance and assistance. Actually, when Monica hosted "The Situation", the entire panel, including one of 'em libruls we hear 'bout, were opposed to further FBI involvement. Maybe that is why the FBI isn't being vocal. It's a fine line to meet everybody's demands.

Posted by: mariaK | August 7, 2005 03:04 PM

I did not see that, but I expect Dr. Crowley is anticipating this will be resolved satisfactorily by the ALE. She is also probably thinking about the Veneuzeula situation that could create havoc there.

Monica's looking at it so as not to stir up a hornet's nest over a date-rape-drug-gone-bad, where as I think the congressman and the two senators were thinking more of an international crime. Could be wrong on my thinking, but I usually am.

Just guessing.

[Justice for Natalee]

"And also speaking of the burden and despair borne by the MB teens - didn't we also learn that Joran spent much of his time crying over his situation and saying he 'Hoped to God Natalee would be found OK'?"
posted by Berry

I think your words "crying over his situation" are more accurate--meaning Joran was feeling sorry for HIMSELF about the fix he got into. IMO

[ustt]

Great editorial Dan. I echo your sentiments.

I would think also the "other person" (along with Sen Shelby)......who is Condi Rice......would be in a seat of at least cooperating knowledge of what the heck FBI are doing there........and the FBI should be reporting to her.

Wasn't that the big HOOPLA after 911.......that there is to be MORE COOPERATION between the different agencies.

And she is SECRETARY OF STATE!

I have wondered all along why she hasn't shown at least her face in this - to back this family. But her silence is deafening to this tax payers ears.

[MarkleSparkle]

Dan: Excellent editorial. I wonder if the FBI really can say much considering the confidentiality required by Dutch law.

[millie]

Good editorial Dan.
I saw Beth on TV accompanied by a man who was
identified as a former US secret service person.
She seems more confident, and mentioned that she
is being well informed by the FBI. That is good
enough for me.

[Anna2]

Dan,
I'm not sure that I would agree that the FBI should be communicating anything with the American public just yet - despite the fact that I want them to - but in this situation the FBI's presence and participation is at the invitation of the Aruban authorities. They must respect the restrictions Aruba requests and if that includes not releasing information then I'd rather see the FBI keep things quiet and remain in the investigation than to give us information and run the risk of the Aruban authorities rejecting their help.
But the reason for this comment is to thank you for the first part of your post which was a refreshing defense of the MB students. I agree with you completely and was happy to see you stand up for them. Thanks for reminding everyone that different people saw and heard different things at different times and in different places. The goal should be to take everything said and treat them like pieces of a puzzle and put the whole picture together rather than to throw any piece away because it might not fit right beside some other piece.

[dcrete]

Does anyone have further info about a text message the police found, sent from JVDS's cellphone, wherein he told the Kalpoe brothers he did not need them to come back and pick him up from the beach because he had a way home?

That being the case, does anyone know if that was followed up, such as finding out if PVDS was that alternat way home for JVDS? And if that is the case, was there an investigation into what else PVDS might have been doing other than just picking up JVDS?

Also, if PVDS has a motorboat, was there any investigation into whether it was used the early morning of May 30th? If it was, and PVDS does not have an established habit of doing very early morning fishing, etc., then have the Aruban police investiaged what reason he would have for an isolated incident of being out in his boat in predawn hours?

PVDS making the comment to JVDS about there 'being no case with no body' would suggest if he was involved in helping JVDS deal with whatever happened to Natalee, he would know he had to make certain the body was not found. So he would not risk burying it on the island but instead would take it far enough out to sea that recovery would never be possible.

IMO, PVDS is just as involved as JVDS.

[Sometimes I wonder]

This case is over and the only people who don't know it are Beth and Greta. It's August in DC and everyone is on vacation. This story is now stale and something else will pique the national interest. It's coming and it is right under the surface.

[GeorgeT.]

And also speaking of the burden and despair borne by the MB teens - didn't we also learn that Joran spent much of his time crying over his situation and saying he "Hoped to God Natalee would be found OK"?

On the chance he might not have harmed Natalee as he insists, imagine the deep frustration, embarrassment and guilt and fear Joran is feeling.

Posted by: berry | August 7, 2005 02:49 PM

Thank you for the opportunity to look outside of the box.

[MBMom2]

Thanks, Dan. It is way past time that people back off the Mt. Brook kids. They are suffering enough without everyone faulting them. My son graduated with Natalee. He was not on the trip but several of his good friends were. I know personally of one that can't even watch the news anymore. They are suffering tremendously. Please, people, give them a break. Everyone is devastated by this ... and the fact remains, it doesn't bring Natalee back. The kids have spoken with the FBI ... several times. They have shared what they know. The ones responsible ... one sitting in jail covering his ears when he's had enough, and the other two walking around freely, are the ones that need to be questioned 24/7. Instead of the people searching for Natalee having to wait for equipment or permits, they ought to have those three out there digging with their bare hands. It's time to make them pay for whatever has happened to Natalee. Again, please continue to keep Natalee and the Holloway/Twitty family in your prayers. Thanks again, Dan, for the great job you are doing in keeping us current!

[DennisAOK]

Dan,

I agree with you about the MB students. Several times here I’ve rebutted wild conspiracy theories involving them for which there is no basis. With 40-50 MB students at C&C’s that night, some will have gotten more drunk than others; some saw Joran with Natalee and others not; one saw her with Joran outside the club, while another saw her with Depak. Early on the FBI talked with all of them and was satisfied there was not MB angle. Jug did the same a couple of weeks ago. Why people persist with this is beyond me.

I disagree with you, though, on the FBI issue. If the Aruban authorities are already sensitive about their sovereignty and resent the American pressure, they would be all the more difficult to work with if the FBI is bad mouthing them publicly. (This on top of Tim Miller and T.J. Ward, whose actions bother you a bit more than me.) Better, I think, for them to keep the Twittys and Dave Holloway informed privately. The time for criticism will come later.

[RealityBased]

I have yet to see ONE of the MB students who have been interviewed on TV look at all upset that Natalee is missing. The last interview Greta did with the "girls" even has them looking at each other as if they need confirmation on even answering the questions posed by Greta.

Just as the Twitty's want Aruban LE officials to talk about what they know as far as the investigation, the same holds true for the same information being released by the FBI.

If Natalee was such a popular girl with all these students it is still inconceivable that one of her "best" friends wouldn't have looked for her once they got back to the hotel and asked if the other students had seen her.

[leeza]

DennisAOK-did you get my message on the other thread about what code your friend thinks will work to present a claim (civil, I suppose) in Aruba (Twitty v van der Sloot). Like I said, we did some research at the office and we just aren't seeing it as possible, outside of a criminal conviction.
Thanks!

[mystere]

Those kids are scared to death of something. And they are back home so they are not scared of dangerous Arubans. Jug was talking the other night about his strictness with Natalee and how he had coached her and made her shape up. Maybe the MB kids have Jugs of their own at home and want to avoid coaching so nobody got drunk, nobody made dates, nobody noticed all night long that the most popular girl in school was nowhere to be found.

Too many things about this case just don't smell right, don't add up.

Maybe somebody should ask Condi Rice where Natalee is. She got into the game pretty early on.

And maybe we should all remember that the purpose of the FBI is to protect American interests. In case of a conflict between Natalee's personal interests and powerful American political and business interests, Natalee gets a chance to serve her country.

[icey]

MBMom2....

I am in agreement with you. Unless the MB kids were involved in something that ended with Natalee's disappearance, then their actions on the trip have no bearing on the case. It would appear that the FBI and the family have cleared them of any wrong doing and that's good enough for me.

jvds and the other 2 or 3 have at least a couple more pieces of the puzzle and they need to talk now. jvds is currently making a total FOOL out of the Netherlands and thier investigators. I hope one of them explains the fine points of respect to jvds when no one is looking.

Deep down I believe we will have an answer to Natalee's disappearance, but it may take the private sector to accomplish something the police do not seem capable off. I don't believe all will be "free", even if they are released from jail and scurry back to thier ratholes on or off the island of Aruba.

Just my 2 cents.

icey

[tom]

Recentely the scaredmonkey forum discovered that several people on the site who claimed to be MB teens were not. Sometimes it seemed that what these imposter teens said contridicted what the other teens were saying on TV. I wonder if this situation led to speculation that the teens were lying in certain forums.

[leeza]

icey wrote: Deep down I believe we will have an answer to Natalee's disappearance, but it may take the private sector to accomplish something the police do not seem capable off. I don't believe all will be "free", even if they are released from jail and scurry back to thier ratholes on or off the island of Aruba
FYI icey - You may want to be careful about making this kind of statement publicly. Have you ever heard of the criminal offense of "conspiracy"?

[Dan]

benzo - "I am a little concerned about where this blog is going.. It seems as if you have turned against all the "good" people in this entire situation. The PI, Natalees parents, Other blogs (SM),"

If your statement had some basis in fact, I'd address it more clearly. I've never said anything negative about the parents and addressed the PI and SM based upon the facts. You'll love the ES piece I have coming ... it'll give you plenty to fuss over, even though you're obviously short on facts and long on accusation.

[Kat_Gram]

If the FBI is keeping Beth updated and the case informatioin is being shared, why is she still on every interview show that will have her.

Things have changed since the beginning where the Aruban LE were not doing anything. She wanted the FBI involved and they are.

It seems to me that everything that can be done is being done now. Maybe it should have been done sooner, but it wasn't. The Arubans will never let the FBI take the lead or conduct the questioning on their own.

I saw Beth the other night on probably CNN as I don't get FOX and she was saying something that Natalee Holloway did not get in a car with three boys she didn't know. Well, however that happened, she thought it was cab, was pushed in, was tricked in, she did. Does it matter a this point ?

When she spoke of her daughter using her last name like that it seemed very impersonal, like
she was selling a brand name, ie Kraft Dinner.

The case isn't going to grind to a halt if she is not on the TV making silly claims about Joran.

Silence from the media unless there is some factual breaking news would be a relief. I read these blogs and there are things being said that no one would have said 6 to 7 weeks ago about Natalee, Beth or any of the HT family.

I admire Beth for what she did in the beginning. Else those two security guards would have had a trial date set, but get off the tv selling the Natalee Holloway product.

[icey]

FYI leeza.... Yeah I've heard about it. I'm not conspiring here. note my " just my 2 cents" statement.

I'm just discussing human nature and determination in a most troubling and publicized case. I trust that family and friends will see this through using a multitude of legal avenues still at thier disposal, including another team of PI's and possibly civil suits as well.

What would you expect your family members to do if you were in NH's situation? Just give up? What if NH really has been kidnapped, and is in a living hell somewhere? Does the family just say "oh well, the police failed us" and "jvds doesn't have to talk", and just go about their normal lives??

Enough with the concern about jvds, at the very least he's responsible for leaving a possibly raped and unconsious NH on the beach in the 2 to 4am time frame. He is not innocent here. He knows more. What he knows will either be used to find NH's body, or try to pick up her kidnap trail.

icey

[NC greenbean]

Thanks Dan, for your post and your honesty. I myself am sick of posters on here "demonizing" the MB kids. My God,they are just hs kids on a grad.trip. People are trying to make them out to be druggies,drunks,whores,etc. because they were in a bar. True, the place didn't have the greatest rep-all the more reason for teens,in their thinking to go there! (just like most of us in our teen years-remember long hair/tie dyed stuff/peace&love?)And unless you are very wordly,you wouldn't even know what to look out for. These same people spewing venom about the MB kids go to "Happy Hour" every day after work/go to Las Vegas and see the topless gals/watch the smut that's on tv/movie theatres everyday. But that's ok cuz they are adults-these kids are 18-old enough to vote and go to war-that's a double standard. There are thousands of people that go into C&C's-does that mean they are all whores, drunks, etc. cuz they go in there? And some people on here need to lighten up-a "conspiracy",Leeza? Give me a break-this is a blog to discuss this case-not law school! If you can't take the heat-get out of the kitchen! NC greebean

[icey]

That's OK BT and DH, get and use all the TV time you can in Natalee's interest. Besides most of whats on TV is useless anyway, and overindulgence on sports, weather, traffic, "good news" stories, political BS, stupid network shows and info-mercials.

I'd rather have a couple channels on NH's case 24/7. Then once it's solved, focus on the next set of missing / abused cases and keep up this kind of heat forever. This IS reality TV at it's best. It actually can be used to seek justice.

icey

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I admire Beth for what she did in the beginning. Else those two security guards would have had a trial date set, but get off the tv selling the Natalee Holloway product.

Posted by: Kat_Gram | August 7, 2005 05:51 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[linda]

MB Mom

I hear the frustation in your voice and I am sure you children involved in this horrible tragedy are devistated.

Please remember that the three boys parents must feel the same way. They believe in their children as much as you believe in yours. Your children are at home safe. Joran is not. How must his mother feel? He has not been proven guily of anything but maybe lying due to being scared to death.
As a mother I can see both sides of this tragedy.
Maybe you are too emotionally involved to see clearly. As I'm sure I would be to. God bless you and your children. God bless Joran and his family.

[joetwopoles]

Thank you, Dan, for laying out some common sense on this issue! I would not be surprised if we didn't know everything little detail from these kids as it could compromise the investigation. If that's the case, we don't need to know!

Thanks again for your insight!

[Anna]

Dan, THANK YOU for this article. So many times I have had to just leave the Forum when the accusations and false statements have been flying about the MB students.

It is like the fable of the blind men describing the elephant, each one knows only a part, their perception of what happened.

These students are victims too of whomever or whatever caused the disappearance of Natalee. They are terribly traumatized by this and if they were my own children, I would have to advise them to never speak out at all.

I think we should be supporting of them albeit to a lesser degree than the family for they have suffered a loss, too. While we all care, their concern is much greater and more personal than even the most dedicated blogger.

For some, nothing short of something salacious or incriminating will do from there kids but I truly believe they have told all they know to the proper authorities and the parents. They do not owe anybody else anything no matter how much we would like to know what happened.

This needed saying in a big way for I have seen far too many casting vicious aspersions on this group and making glaringly false statements about them and their lack of concern. Nothing could be farther from the truth and we need to offer our support and understanding instead of suspicion and accusations.

Hardly ever is a parent criticized when a small child is abducted right from under their noses and yet we hold these recent graduates to a higher standard than we do those same parents. To a man, not one of them would have had this happen for all the world. Most of the MB posters and many from Alabama have left the blog or post rarely and some of that is due to the harsh treatment and attitude toward these kids who are also victims themselves.

I hope your article will help folks stop and think not only of what it would feel like to be in Beth's situation but also to be a parent of one of these other kids. Sometimes there is just no there, there. We need to take them at their word and trust that the ones who have information have provided it to the family and FBI. Some are just too jaded in their approach to all kids and these in particular. Kids are human beings, too, and they vary tremendously in behavior and lifestyle. Traditions and values vary from family to family and region to region. Kids do not fit cookie-cutter stereotypes but are individuals with their own perspectives.

So let's try to spare a little support for the students along with the family. After all, no one is demanding that everybody on that cruise ship where the man went missing should divulge every detail of their private lives the way it is being done to these young people. And they might not like your persona on TV either but so what? They are not trying out for a part in a movie but are real people and this is how they are, accept it without negative judgment and unrealistic expectations. Their parents are probably more understanding and supportive than many and I do not believe for one minute the kids are afraid to tell all. After all, they are children of us Baby Boomers and it takes a great deal to shock any of us not having behaved the best ourselves.

So we need to accept what they have to offer and to tell us without demanding more and more that they may not feel free to discuss under instructions from the FBI or the family. This does not make them stupid nor Stepford children, just trying to do what they hope will help find their lost friend.

[vincent]

people disparage the MB kids, but those same people have never mentioned the fact that Joran, Deepak, Satish and PVDS never ONCE expressed alarm when first told NH was missing. Instead, they recited their BIG LIE in unison.

Joran can cry all he likes, his FIRST reaction was to DENY ever seeing NH in his life! Not very sensitive for someone who claimed to have sex with the girl the night before, to say the LEAST.

In reality, I doubt kids feel anything for anyone these days. It's all about them, like those kids in that movie "The River's Edge". Desensitized little monsters, couldn't have cared less that one of their chums was laying dead by the river's edge, just lying there while they poked her with twigs. This is how I view Joran and the MB kids. Void of REAL feeling.

Yeah, God bless Joran and his family. They'll need it because they have no souls and will burn in Hell for their lies and the torture of Natalee's family.

Yeah, poor stupid Anita, clueless...NOT. How long does it take this idiotic woman to catch on???

If the VDS's were HALFWAY DECENT parents, they wouldn't have produced the likes of Joran who lies to them and who put them thru this miserable nightmare in the first place. Sorry, they got what they bought--a horrible son and a corpse to deal with.

[MrsJimiHendrix]

Hi Dan

Just popped in for a sec to say hello and thank you.

Dan, since when does the FBI say anything to anyone, including other LE agencies? when you come up with an example please let me know! it will be an unprecedented event to say the least!!

keep up the great work and glad you finally took this stand

have a good weekend!!

[Augusta]

Yeah, God bless Joran and his family. They'll need it because they have no souls and will burn in Hell for their lies and the torture of Natalee's family.

Yeah, poor stupid Anita, clueless...NOT. How long does it take this idiotic woman to catch on???

Vincent
---------------
People like Vincent "scare" me!

[vincent]

Augusta~

I see, but people like the VDS's don't??? LOL I can assure you, you'd much rather have "people like Vincent" drive you back to your hotel than any VDS. But, have it your way;) BOO!

[Roy]

Well said Dan.
I hope that posters will now let that angle rest.
It doesn't lead anywhere.
In my mind the most important question remains, what did they do with the body. And I do hope that Aruban LE and FBI keep brainstorming on this issue and follow up.
For instance does PVDS have access to one of those large freezing containers or something similar.
I am beginning to doubt that the body is burried somewhere on the island or was dumped in the sea.

[Augusta]

If Natalee was such a popular girl with all these students it is still inconceivable that one of her "best" friends wouldn't have looked for her once they got back to the hotel and asked if the other students had seen her.

Posted by: RealityBased | August 7, 2005 05:06 PM

One of her room-mates (and I understand there were three) stated she spent the night on the beach. So, that accounts for why one didn't know.
The other two, to my knowledge have not stepped froward (yet) to let us know why they didn't notice N wasn't in.

What nonesence we couldn't learn more from these kids! Poof

[edward]

vincent:

I agree... I've seen a few of these kids on TV and I'm
less then impressed with any of them. An 18 yr kid today
is a mindless, soulless, all consuming loud brats. There
only concern is for themselves and would gladly walk over
a dead body without blinking an eye. These kids are no longer
raised by parents ... there raised by big screen TV sets.... go turn
on your TV right now and count the number of people killed in
one hour... theres the cop shows.. the lawyer shows... action
movies... the f-ing name it... and when people aren't killing each other
theres sex sex and more sex.. never with ones spouse though, that
would be to boring... can you imagine, people on TV actually having
sex with people there married to.... never....
You want to get a clear picture of your tropical 18 yr old kid ????
get in your car and go down to the local Starbucks... and see for
yourself.... they'll be there doing burn-outs in mommy and daddy's
cars.... drinking, smoking, fighting, throwing trash all over the parking
lot...
Now take those same kids fly them to a anything goes Island
and add alcohol and see what happens..... There were many posters
on the boards that made commits on how they saw the MB kids
behaving on Aruba that week.... and they were not positive ones...
I like Beth Holloway... I really do.. but I'm afraid to say, I don't
think they every find Natalee... Beth spent to much time in the US
MSM and none in the Aurban.... Natalee didn't f-ing go missing in
New Jersey..... she went missing in Aruba..... to much time has past
and now the Arubans are just waiting for her to leave.. that will be the
final act