Surprising Development In Natalee Holloway Case

Information gathered in reporting on the Natalee Holloway disappearance suggests there was actually another male who claims to have spent the night, or "crashed" at the apartment of Joran Van der Sloot on the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As Joran's one room, one bath apartment is set off from the family home, it was suggested this was not an unusual development among some of his closest friends.

Preliminary information suggests he had planned to go out with Joran and possibly some other friends that evening, but the plans fell through. He is said to have been interrogated by the authorities in the investigation, but presently, there is no information given which suggests he is linked to any potential crime.

According to a source, he has on at least one occasion claimed that Joran Van der Sloot returned home late that evening after he was already sleeping. During a brief interaction, it is said that Joran told him he met an attractive American girl that evening and also indicated in teenage vernacular that no actual sexual activity had been involved.

It is unclear what statements, if any, the boy has made to authorities in this regard.

It is also said that he received a call from Joran Van der Sloot the next day while Joran was playing tennis after school had ended. It's claimed that that is the first Joran had heard of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and called his friend as he was unsure of what to do.

This initial report, which conflicts with some other reports on the case, is unconfirmed through additional sources at this time.

As they say ... developing.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[letsbefair]

Roger posted this a while back. He said he read it in a Dutch newspaper:

The next day at school, Joran said to several of his school buddies who had been at the Excelsior Casino (and some who were at Carlos and Charlies) and had seen Natalie with him, words to this effect, "Hey, I banged that girl last night." He was telling the story several times (as he would see guys who had seen him the night before (guys ask things like... "Did you score with that chick?") and he would give them his report.

But, then the school master called him in and told him to not be talking that way, because it is "on the news that she never made it back to the hotel." So, Joran (shocked by that news) quit telling of his conquest immediately.

It seems most logical that if he had known about Natalie being harmed or had anything to do with that, he would not have been bragging about his sexual pleasures with her the night before.

If he had been complicit in her disappearance, he would have played it very cool the next day certainly not telling about having "made it" with her.

Posted by: roger | July 5, 2005 02:15 PM

[Dolphin]

Agreed icey,
it might also be to put the blame on Deepak...

[letsbefair]

Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:07 PM

Is this the Max that is Lorenzo's alibi or is there another Max?

Posted by: (((AG))) | August 11, 2005 09:08 PM

There was some confusion about that earlier. I think there are 2 Max's. Arends and Arendz? I believe Lorenzo's friend is older.

[scubajap]

I think it is another Max. His father was telling me that they were both floored when they saw his name on the internet, because it came so out of the blue, he is really not involved with Joran, They are local people, and they had raised him rather conservatively. This Max is not a party boy.

[scubajap]

Oh, and if it sounds strange to you that I spoke to him in Florida, it is obviously on his cell phone. A SETAR number, interesting so they have roaming now. I have SETAR too, good to know

[letsbefair]

I think it is another Max. His father was telling me that they were both floored when they saw his name on the internet, because it came so out of the blue, he is really not involved with Joran, They are local people, and they had raised him rather conservatively. This Max is not a party boy.

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:25 PM

SJP are you the E of AT, like someone else suggested?

[scubajap]

What is the E of AT? Another poster? I only post under Scubajap

[letsbefair]

That's what I read. Max and Lorenzo came in at about the same time for questioning. They were supposedly together at an all night party.

Posted by: letsbefair | August 11, 2005 07:52 PM

Wasn't this party at the HI? Who else was there??

Posted by: (((AG))) | August 11, 2005 08:05 PM

Not sure who else was there, but I'm pretty sure this is the party Shango spoke of.

"the partygoers need to be pressured, they have seen from the corners of their eyes"

"the room was dusted" (the room at the HI?)

"the host doesn't leave his own party"

"the alibi needs to be broken"

[linda]

Scubajap
Is Max going to Central Florida? Is that where Joran was supposed to go?

[scubajap]

Oh I get it-Your asking if I am the editor of Aruba Today-Julia Renfro-No I am not, as I said before, sadly, she is much younger than I, and in a few hours I will be another year older, Aug 12 is my Birthday.

[letsbefair]

E as in Editor (your day job)

[letsbefair]

Happy birthday Scubajap!

[scubajap]

Yes, many students go to UCF-they have a special agreement with the Aruba Scholarship Fund, they give them the same tuition as instate students, and the Aruba Scholarship Fund manages the program. It is LAC and it supports many students from Aruba and other islands around the Caribbean.

[dennis vaughan]

wow, the first of many witnesses for urine. bet this sucker doesn't disappear off the face of the earth or threatened with job loss and eviction from his apt.

bet this won't be the last urine alibi that shows up between now and sept. 4.

that paulus would be a great defense lawyer. if he can do for other clients what he's arranging for his dear little sociopathic sexual predator son. oh, yes, i forgot murderer. sorry about that.

[linda]

Thanks Scubajap,
Didn't know that. I live close to the campus.

[scubajap]

Thank you for the birthday wishes-

I do not write for the Aruba Today, there are other English papers on the island you know, just not online. I also write for a number of magazines, too

[letsbefair]

wow, the first of many witnesses for urine. bet this sucker doesn't disappear off the face of the earth or threatened with job loss and eviction from his apt.

bet this won't be the last urine alibi that shows up between now and sept. 4.

that paulus would be a great defense lawyer. if he can do for other clients what he's arranging for his dear little sociopathic sexual predator son. oh, yes, i forgot murderer. sorry about that.

Posted by: dennis vaughan | August 11, 2005 09:38 PM

Another open minded poster...

[letsbefair]

Thank you for the birthday wishes-

I do not write for the Aruba Today, there are other English papers on the island you know, just not online. I also write for a number of magazines, too

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:41 PM

What do you think about the runaway theory?

[George T.]

Happy, Happy Birthday,
I enjoy watching you write.

in a few hours I will be another year older, Aug 12 is my Birthday.

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:33 PM

[scubajap]

Bibi just called me back and Max Arends explained there is a Max Arendz and that is the guy that is mixed up with them.

[letsbefair]

Bibi just called me back and Max Arends explained there is a Max Arendz and that is the guy that is mixed up with them.

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:53 PM

Is that the o n l y thing you know about this Arendz? He looks kinda scary?

[George T.]

letsbefair
I have seen other posters give you alot of grief. You are an independent thinker. That is what is needed in order to solve this case. Yes, I think there was a speed boat with a girl on it of her own free will. I also think she now has short black hair and is drinking peana coladas in Maracco.

[clintcarter]

I Know who that roommate is! Kato Kaelin!
Maybe they were full up at the Playboy mansion.

The above reports do lean in the direction of Joran Not knowing she was missing until after the fact.

Something about the whole "Joran was boasting of his conquest on the playground and the Headmaster called him in and told him to cease such talk as the girl was missing" is weird. Did the Staff know of the Lost girl and were watching Joran for signs?

How mysterious if this is true. And how many of the facts can fit logically into this scenario?

[FloridaPatty]

Scarborough country with the Twittys right now.

10 EST.

[faithfulreader]

Happy Birthday! Scubajap...you are a fellow Leo.

[scubajap]

Does it make sense for her to runaway in a foreign country without her documents, where she wouldn't be able to work or likely not speak the language either?
Why not just wait a day or two and get on a bus back in the states and at least leave a note?

I was having a very hard time with my mother just before I turned 21, and I did that. I got very pissed off one day, wrote them a note and got on a bus for N.Y. City.
That is another story for my memoirs-it was an adventure, believe me, but again I escaped unscathed. I think I have an angel watching over me, I hope the Natalee has one too.

No, the runaway story doesn't wash with me, it just doesn't make sense. Unless at home they keep her chained up, so this was her only chance-
I don't think so.

Got to go, I think I am about to get my birthday present.

[oneyka]

sounds like a convenient new witness to me.
Also trained by PVDS.

Posted by: Roy | August 11, 2005

Yes, Roy, trained very much by a/h PVDS, same like he trained his baby monster and the other two slimy characters. Maybe this guy has even been paid for lie just like the rest of them. Steve Croes does know indeed Joran and the two other killers or accomplices, I ran sometime ago in some site (I wish I had save the URL) together all four of them like a nice family portrait.

[George T.]

Because Joran boasted, only means he is 17 and wants to be accepted. He seems to be mostly a lonely, quiet boy. I think an 18 yr old girl could have decided to get her a little action and she could be the agressor. It has happened to men before. Maybe the complete act was never acomplished together, but she played a little touch football, enough to complete the act for one of them.

[oneyka]

This GEORGE T. does not have a clue.
Joran? a quiet little boy? When he was at 17 doing the Casinos gambling with his own father? And his Kalpoe friends, is he lonely? Come on! this is so ridiculous to put this monster in a this category and practically blaming the MURDER VICTIM for what happened to her.
And this new "witness" or friend that crashed that night in Monster's apartment, why it has taken almost 75 days to come forward?

It is only one move from Papa Van der Slut to cover up for his boy. Time is running short! He will not be released, they have 30 more days if the judge decides to keep holding him, and I sure hope so! for the next 20 coming years!

[George T.]

I also see that the possibility exists that Beth has always told Natalee when to breathe in and when to breathe out. I'm sure she had told that to Dave for years and he decided to breathe on his own. If I were Natalee, I would want to break from the emotional chain that was placed around me...to be perfect, to be successful, to be exactly what Beth wanted, when Beth wanted, with whom Beth wanted. Too many control issues. Just watch Beth's behavior these past months. She controlls everyone she gets near. And most people are enablers, allowing her to do whatever she wants because... Well there is no because in being a bully as another poster suggested today concerning her tracking down Deepak. It was against the Aruban law. Does no one care that we need to go by the LAW?

[faithfulreader]

Letsbefair...your making sense to me. Why would Joran boast of a conquest if he had done away with her earlier? I'm thinking they have the wrong guy locked up. Maybe Deepak did do it and PVDS helped get rid of the body only because his son was with her last and would be somehow linked to the whole fiasco. Seems to me that Deepak has some kind of information to hold over PVDS and Joran's head.

[icey]

Jeezz,,,, Not the lame runaway theory again. No way, No how. An American has better ways to get lost.

For one thing, NH would not let all her family and friends continue to languish in this pain and guilt. Also, someone would have noticed her by now, no matter where she was at.

The fact that she has not been seen since points to a murder or a kidnapping. Why think runaway because no traces of NH have been found? Makes no sense to make that leap.

icey

[George T.]

icey,
why think murder when no evidence has been found?
It is not any different.

[George T.]

see, if I lose my glasses and keep looking where they are not, I will never find them. The logical conclusion is to look where I have not.

[icey]

We have discussed this topic over 5 weeks ago.

Friends of jvds are used to his bragging stories. It would make more sense for jvds to brag about NH and stick to his HI story, then to clam up and seem to act diffently then he normally did with all of his other conquests. Don't think with hindsight when you consider jvds's actions, you have to think with a cold calculating mind trying to cover your tracks.

Remember, act like nothing happened, and everyone will think you are innocent.

icey

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Letsbefair...your making sense to me. Why would Joran boast of a conquest if he had done away with her earlier? I'm thinking they have the wrong guy locked up. Maybe Deepak did do it and PVDS helped get rid of the body only because his son was with her last and would be somehow linked to the whole fiasco. Seems to me that Deepak has some kind of information to hold over PVDS and Joran's head.

Posted by: faithfulreader | August 11, 2005 10:16 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

[icey]

I also indicated a kidnapping. Come one here people, NH did not get up and walk away.

Why would one not suspect foulplay when a tourist packed to go home goes missing hours before her flight?????

It is WAY more clueless and irresponsible to assume nothing happened just because there is not an obvious set of evidence that a 5 year old could understand.

icey

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
icey,
why think murder when no evidence has been found?
It is not any different.

Posted by: George T. | August 11, 2005 10:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

[frenchymom]

As easy as it is for all of us to believe Joran (and Deepak)are anything but innocent, the truth is we still don't have any REAL facts....

We have alot of "he said, she said" and alot of supposition but to my knowlege no real, hard concrete visual evidence. No body, no single piece of evidence, no blood, no friends coming forth to say "he told me he did it", etc.

Even Jug and Beth throw around a lot of innuendo and promises of "More detail and evidence." I support Beth, Dave and Jug in what they are trying to do but have we really seen any proof?

While we think that we would have already "broken" these guys in the states, even we would have a hard convicting them without evidence.

Too bad we don't have those first ten days back when the possibility of REAL evidence was still in existence...

Know what I mean?

[George T.]

frenchymom,
That is what I mean. In the education process of youth in the US, we teach using the scientific method. We make a hypothesis and then construct a plausable path that the EVIDENCE shows possible. I have seen Beth pointing the finger with her psychic abilities; and even being an educator, she has no grasp of the scientific method. It is also the method used to prove murder cases, acording to the LAW.
Thanks,

[frenchymom]

Was anybody else surprised about the part in the letter that stated that Aruba had provided housing for them? I must have missed that in earlier releases?

[ustt]

If this guy was sleeping at Joran's apartment.....did he have a car........and why was Joran having to call Deepak/Satish all night long for a ride?

[Roy]

Of course I can't say wether Joran is guilty or not.
Even though I do have my opinion.
Also I can't substantiate the fact that I believe Joran is a sociopath or something close to that.
At the same time this would mean that he will be hard nut to crack. You can't work on his feelings of guilt.
You can't work on his feelings of what is right and wrong.
You can't work on him period.
Even though the LE really messed up I do hope they have far more than we know of.
I am an Aruban and I want to see a solution, a conviction and most of all I want to see closure for those close to Natalee.

[ftriggerf]

Roy, what is your 'feeling' on who is involved? and who does the local gossip point to as being involved?

[Roy]

On another note, I would also like to see people stick to the point and stop insulting the whole of Aruba.
Wether you decide to boycott Aruba yes or no, that is your business. But I think some people are way out of line with there remarks about Aruba and the Arubans in general.
Of course we have our share of liars, buttheads, pricks and the like. But believe me, that is an extremely tiny minority.

[George T.]

Antisocial personality disorder

What is a sociopath?

Denise / Florida

People sometimes use the term sociopath to describe an individual with antisocial personality disorder. A person with this disorder shows a lack of concern for the rules and expectations of society, and repeatedly violates the rights of others.

The cause of antisocial personality disorder isn't known. Genetic factors and a history of abuse as a child may play a role. It occurs more often in men than in women.

Symptoms typically appear in childhood. Before age 15, these individuals often display a pattern of lying, breaking the law and substance abuse. As adults, people with this disorder may:

Repeatedly break the law
Be unable to sustain long-term relationships
Be unable to fulfill employment or financial obligations
Display reckless behavior
Exhibit aggressive behavior
Abuse alcohol and drugs
There's no specific treatment that's effective for this disorder. Group counseling may help some people. Treatment of other conditions, such as anxiety, depression and substance abuse, may improve symptoms.

[Dolphin]

Hi Roy,
do you think that Deepak will be safe without a closure?

[faithfulreader]

We have discussed this topic over 5 weeks ago.

Friends of jvds are used to his bragging stories. It would make more sense for jvds to brag about NH and stick to his HI story, then to clam up and seem to act diffently then he normally did with all of his other conquests. Don't think with hindsight when you consider jvds's actions, you have to think with a cold calculating mind trying to cover your tracks.

Remember, act like nothing happened, and everyone will think you are innocent.

icey

Just because that was discussed 5 wks ago doesn't mean that it can't be discussed again. No one really knows for sure what happened but the people involved. However you make sense too, so now I'm really confused, but I wish we would get just one piece of real evidence that ties one or all of these guys to Natalee's dissapearance.

[Roy]

Roy, what is your 'feeling' on who is involved? and who does the local gossip point to as being involved?

Posted by: ftriggerf | August 11, 2005 10:50 PM

My personal feeling is that Joran is the main culprit.
I strongly believe that father Sloot is involved in the cover up.
I think that Satish would be the 'most innocent'.
Can't figure out Deepak.
I don't know if by law more pressure could be put on Satish. I guess that would give most information.

[George T.]

to faithful reader,
Now your thinking!!!

I wish we would get just one piece of real evidence

Posted by: faithfulreader | August 11, 2005 11:00 PM

And what if the evidence point another direction?

[George T.]

Most people do not really want to know the truth. They only want confirmation that what they already believe is correct.

[Berry]

They could be talking about Max Ahrends. It wouldn't surprise me. I think the days are off by one, perhaps. Joran went to school for exams the day Natalee was supposed to go back home. By afternoon the cops were called and it is remotely possible someone he found out that way.

What's interesting is that the guy learned that Joran met a cute American - but didn't really "score".

That comports with Mrs Rivera's/Ramirez? recall of what her sons told her. But it is at odds with what the Twitty friends claim they heard Joran admit to - a sexual assualt of Natalee.

I don't know why, but after listening to Natalee's friends as they described Joran and Joran's own ex girlfriend, I don't think he is likely to have raped Natalee and then blurted that out to strangers and cops.

It's possible that the 6 page document Ms Twitty received, was the original report from cops who went with the Twittys to the VDS home. Maybe w/o the inclusion of a statment regarding sexual assault, Ms Twitty has the idea the report has been altered. More likely he never confessed to that behavior and the Twitty friends misunderstood what was being said in at least 3 different languages. IMO.