Natalee Holloway: Earlier Report Possibly More Troubling Now

An earlier report on Joran Van der Sloot could take on new significance with talk of pornographic images and possibly a video involving minors surfacing as regards the self-appointed "Pimps," a seemingly immature and possibly lost and dangerous group of Arubian young men. I must also credit fellow blogger Steve Huff for his earlier report - linked below and through my previous entry.

See here: Apparently, at the same time the 6'4" school athlete was said to be a proficient gambler frequenting the clubs and casinos in Aruba, he was also known to have had a romantic involvement with a 7th grade girl of thirteen until her parents learned of the relationship and made their daughter break it off back in March.

See here for extended report from Steve: I suppose what I'm saying here, and what I have said in other entries about this case is that one thing that is becoming clear is Joran Van Der Sloot wasn't the squeaky clean kid first portrayed to authorities. And if he was being a hands-off gentleman with the 7th grader, why would her parents force a break-up? It bothers me that I happened onto a report of his relationship with this girl of 13 or 14 after having heard the rumor propagated by Geraldo Rivera.

At Steve's suggestion, I did look into the matter and confirmed for myself that Joran Van der Sloot, the athletic, 6' 5" high school senior was involved, apparently to some degree, in a romantic encounter with a girl who, for all intents and purposes looks like a child.

I've since discussed the involvement with Dr. Andrew Hodges, a licensed Psychiatrist, who did seem to note a troubling pattern in the prime suspect, Joran Van der Sloot. In conversations, it was suggested that he seemed to have a pattern of romantic involvement with mostly island-based, diminutive young woman, suggesting a tendency to need to dominate, or somehow control women in his life.

Such a pattern, suggested Hodges, could fit into a pattern linked with some criminals notable for rape as their crime of primary offense. Experts have long agreed that power and control, as opposed to sex, are predominate themes among rapists - leading to its classification as a crime of violence and not simply sex.

The image of the suspect and high school senior dating such a seemingly young girl, name withheld and identity obscured in picture above with Van der Sloot, always stood in stark contrast to that of Van der Sloot frequenting casinos and spending so much time drinking and gambling and meeting young adult female tourists.

One can only hope there aren't even more sinister revelations to come in this case.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

Comments

[jolari]

Sick---

[Kathleen]

"...until her parents learned of the relationship and made their daughter break it off back in March."

in March? then it's...nahhh, can't be.
If a porn video was made and sold of this little girl, "troubling" is putting it mildly. What a sick bunch of...

[*flo*]

One can only hope there isn't even more sinister revelations to come in this case.

Posted by Dan in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

Dan, think the can of worms opened when Geraldo made his statements regarding porn/videos. The detainment/re-arrest of the Kalpoes and arrest of Freddie, its apparently the beginning of an investigation which will become huge.

[new jersey hospitality]

Here we go

The Bell Tolls for the bhoyz

Kalpoe's and Van Del Sloots will go down for their actions of spring 2005.

welcome to the rest of your life.

[FloridaPatty]

Dan, think the can of worms opened when Geraldo made his statements regarding porn/videos. The detainment/re-arrest of the Kalpoes and arrest of Freddie, its apparently the beginning of an investigation which will become huge.

Posted by: *flo* | Aug

No wonder there was such a coverup. It wasn't so much the murder but ALL the stuff surrounding it. WHOO this story has many layers and the waters of it run deep.

[tanya]

I though Geraldo was full of you know what but it turns out what he says may have some truth. scary stuff

[berry]

I am waiting for more information. Since Joran is 6'5", most girls would be considered "diminutive". Psychiatrists who have never met a person, tested a person or provided medical/psychiatric evaluation of a person, have no business offering a specific "assessment" of that person. I consider such people professionally reckless.

Dr Hodges should refrain from offering a medical opinion, IMO.

I do not see the fact a 17 yr old "dating" or wanting to date or hang out a 13-14 yr old girl from his school a big problem, unless the parents say NO. It's a less than desirable age span at that age, and I would not want to see it either - if it could be avoided, but both of my sons had girlfriends several years younger in high school, in a group setting. They were all in high school - so that made hanging out more acceptable at school activities, school clubs etc. Context is important.

If Joran really sought to dominate in relationships, why would he head off with a girl older than he was?

[berry]

I'm probably wrong, but I don't think there is a tape in police custody. I think there are reports of a tape. I'm not even sure cops have pictures. If they really had a tape, Freddy would be charged and not arrested on suspicion.

They should never have discussed these possibilities with the Twittys. There is always the chance none of the other unsavory and illegal activites relate to Natalee. Instead, cops or the FBI, led the Twittys into assumptions and created a bias that may not explain anything related to Natalee. That assumption has guided all of the Twitty activities and was helped, IMO, by the mystery phone call.

Maybe the "pimp" club explains what happened to Natalee - but it does not seem to yet. They should have followed that path quietly.

[kescah]

"If Joran really sought to dominate in relationships, why would he head off with a girl older than he was?"
-------------

Not much older, much smaller, and likely the recipient of a gift of a couple shots of 151, if not also some XTC or another drug. He's a brut.

[moey]

Berry:

Perhaps in some circles a 17 year old dating a 13-14 year old is not unusual, but where I live it is a big sign that something is out of wack. 13-14 year old kids are barely entering high school and a 17 year old is most likely a senior - big difference in experience, activities, etc. My granddaughter is a sophisticated 14 year old involved in sports, etc., but her group pretty much hangs out and does group stuff with the 13-14 year old crowd; they are in 9th grade, but they still have 8th graders in their group. IMO a 17 year old (almost man) has no business actually dating a 13-14 year old.

As for the 'pimp club' -- they may not have all the answers yet, but they're coming and these young men are in it up to the eyeballs; unfortunately its the adults involved that's going to be the big story IMHO.

[kescah]

"If they really had a tape, Freddy would be charged and not arrested on suspicion."
_____________

I heard the word "charged" brought up in Freddy's case. It could have been wrongly used, but I heard it. It stuck out in my mind.

I'm glad if these assumptions guided Twitty activities. It has opened a can of worms that may never have been opened without Beth's persistent pressure. And if Natalee did indeed call home and a woman's voice was heard in the background, there could be a tape with Natalee somewhere. Maybe in the bottom of the cesspool now, or burned, or who knows- a great treasure in a distant country.

[kescah]

As a matter of fact, wasn't it the charges against Freddy that Bemvinda read aloud?

[Kelly3]

Geraldo was the first to say this in the very beginning of this case. He was on O'Reiley show and got smacked down by O'Reiley for saying this. Geraldo was right on.

[donnaanna]

Could this be the same tape that Geraldo got his hand slapped for publicizing earlier? The one that he said showed Joran et. al. raping a 14 year old and distributing it? What it turned out to be was a porn video they had downloaded from the internet and Joran and crew did voice overs on it!

And, according the news program I saw with Jossy, the charges against Freddy are for distributing pictures of this girl (and possibly others?)in suggestive poses. She willingly posed for them but did not want them distruted. She asked them to stop, and they did. (I am guessing that we all saw the same news program, right?)

But, I suppose I am going to get slammed for not jumping on the Joran is a 'serial/gang rapist' bandwagon!

[juninho]

This report also underscores the vast culture warp Natalee fell into when she went to Aruba. Although U.S. - like superficially, the island probably operates
more like South America culturally. I was shocked to read that a star of the Brazilian national soccer team, held in high regard by the public and an outspoken
Christian, announced his engagement to a 17- year old girl that he had been dating since she was 13. Different culture, like the hockey player dating Anna
Kournikova when she was 16 and he was much older. If anyone had known, Natalee probably should have been warned about the Shakira thing in Latin
America ( "youthful innocence combned with casual sensuality") and that her looks were going to attract much more attention where she was going than she was used to.

[mick]

I'm not jumping on that wagon just yet either. I'd prefer to wait for at least one or two facts. We don't know at this point, for example, if any additional charges/accusations have been levied against Joran as a result of this picture/video/rape business. We don't know what authorites have on this Freddy character. We don't know what the alleged victim has reported to authorities. We don't know if there is any involvement of the Kalpoes or if they were simply rearrested based on the Gardner's testimony. Given the way the warrants were worded for the Kalpoes, premeditated murder or murder or kidnapping resulting in death or rape, it does not appear that authorities know much more than they did weeks ago when they were released or you would think they could pick a charge. Also, wasn't Joran 16 when he was involved with the girl noted above?

[edward]

i have commented many times on how geraldo was asked by beth early to find out any information on juron. he came back the next night with the report of a supposed video involveing a gang bang video made by hime his friends and a 14 year old girl. he was off the island the next day and greta went on full time. thank god.
i have alwas wondered if geraldo had a copy of that video..
under dutch law a person can engage in consensual sex at age 13.

[bubble]

Dan,

Although the face in the photo is somewhat blurred, anyone in Aruba who is so much as an aquaintance of the young lady or family would easily be able to distinguish who she might be. I understand you are trying to under score a point, but I think that out of respect for the girl and her family - so as not to cause them anymore distress - you may wnat to consider removing that photo. Just my opinion.

[proudredneck]

I understand you are trying to under score a point, but I think that out of respect for the girl and her family - so as not to cause them anymore distress - you may wnat to consider removing that photo. Just my opinion.

Posted by: bubble | Aug 28, 2005 12:18:04 PM

I agree with that. I think we know what Joran is, but we do not need to personally expose all his victims. This is but a child.

[hardyandtiny]

what is that a picture of?

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

"Such a pattern, suggested Hodges, could fit into a pattern linked with some criminals notable for rape as their crime of primary offense."
....

Dan,

I thank you for the emphasis here. I appreciate the fact you have done the research to make these connections. It IS the "pattern" that is so troubling.

With the LITTLE I know about some psychological issues regarding acting out sexually (don't read in too much here!) I have read of suggested, if not clinically observed, correlations between poor father-son relationship models (ie. lack of limits, moral strength and conviction, etc.) and controlling mother issues. In some instances this resulted in an underlying disdain for the controlling authority of the mother combined with the lack of limits set and modeled and enforced by the father.

I won't go into to any more details here because there is and abundance of information in print and on the WWW (having both a controlling mother and permissive father) that points out the anger produced toward females, the controlling nature of sexual abuse and the internal stimulus of hormones!

My point is that I see in this case of JVDS some of the indicators of these scenarios (while I am in no way trying to be what I am not, a psychologist).

Many in this forum have discussed these aspects of this kind of behavior so I am only adding to that discussion here.

The key thing to me is that when Mom vdS is away the son plays -- with dad's apparent permission and lack of control over the son, perhaps even aiding in the "cover-up" with mom (hence the change in story of pick up time from 4 am to 11 pm to comply with "house rules!") Mom seems to be the controlling parent. The one whose authority is feared by BOTH son AND father (sweating during Greta's interview with Paulus while Anita observes!??).

I will only offer these facts (there are more) to support this due to space limits and no need for more here anyway.

1- Jvds said, "Mom, if you were here I wouldn't have done this," as stated by mom, Anita, in the interview with Greta in Vds home and aired "On The Record." (FOXnews.com)

2- Father gambling with son, allowing son to be out late and "break the house rules." (apparently happens frequently)

I write this here also because this problem is NOT confined to Aruba but is a world wide human tragedy and will apply to many of us (or our families) who read here.

It is my prayer that more people will be helped by the attention brought out here in your forum, and by seeking more information and help, counseling, knowledge, cautions and solutions offered freely.

For additional help and resources AND a toll free # (1-800-NEWLIFE) -- "Are you hurting? Do you need help and don't know where to turn? We can help, 24/7/365."

follow links here:

http://www.everymansbattle.com/

http://www.newlife.com/

[Erin]

Moey,

I completely agree with your assessment that most 17 year old guys should not be dating a 13 or 14 y.o. In my opinion, the majority of guys that age would want to be with a girl/woman that they have more in common with. To them, a girl of that age difference would be like a little girl. It just seems so... wrong... for a girl of that age to be dating a boy so much older emotionally and intellectually. Maybe if they were in their twenties, it wouldn't matter, but those are vital years in teenage development.

[kescah]

Very interesting, Akekoa, thanks.

[Paulo]

Newbee, the Most Honorable ProudRed, Erin, and the Gang:

No matter which way it is perceived an adolescent boy of 17, almost 18 years of age, has some very serious issues if he is inclined to be sexually or intimately involved with a 13-14 year old girl. Please bear with me, AND, I mean GIRL!

The mental abilities are critical at this point. Goodness sakes people! The ability to think critically at 13 years of age is very rare. Reason is just another example of what is factored in, as well as logical thinking. You see, at 17 or 18 young males are supposed to know that mere children are off limits.

This guy has some really intense identity issues. If you can’t see it, you never, ever will. Think of it this way: In the USA, he would be eligible for military service, perhaps even war in Iraq; she, on the other hand is in the 7th or 8th grade.

Oh yeah! Thanks ProudRed for covering my six the other day in 152. Erin, I love your post. Also, you are a good person AkekoaHoAlethia, loved the post.

Paulo

[AkekoaHoAlethia]

Kescah -- Thank you as well....

Paulo -- Thank you too ... You said, "off limits" and "intense identity issues"

I believe that you correctly have the core issues in focus as I too see them!

J does not have respect for "limits," or "boundaries" for he seems to violate several crucial ones. And the identity: he should have had that molded by his parents, but I think you are correct, there has been a crisis here, most likely as a result of the father's own identity issues (from what "little" we know). But I think something can be inferred both by the son's behavior (where else does it come from) and the fathers failings in career path.

[shonane]

I think cultural context and the circumstances of the international school is relevant to the romantic or friendship relationship between Joran and the 13 yr old girl in the 7th grade.

The school is very small with all grades so the students would know many across all age groups. Plus, Joran has a younger brother who is also friends with this girl. Some 7th grade girls are quite growny. It is unclear if there was anything significant between them and it could have been she was interested in him, as younger girls frequently are and he liked her as a friend, but nothing really happening. If there was only a brief interest between Joran and this girl, and nothing really developed beyond friendship, then it may not be that significant. Smart parents of the girl though to nip this budding friendship.

The circumstances of the International School with the very small student body where all the students know each other is very different than in large high schools in USA were the seniors don't even know everyone in their own class. My son's high school had 1,700.

Joran's real more recent longer-term girl friend relationship was with Melody who was interviewed on Joe Scarbrough and she has posted on this blog. She is 19, older than Joran. Also, the parents of another girl who he was involved with, around his own age, and who he went to visit in US, were on some news program and spoke positively about him recently on a news interview. I didn't see the program, but read about it from others on this blog.

So, there doesn't seem to me that there is a pattern of him perferring relationships with much younger females.

[shonane]

charges against Freddy are for distributing pictures of this girl (and possibly others?)in suggestive poses. She willingly posed for them but did not want them distruted. She asked them to stop, and they did. (I am guessing that we all saw the same news program, right?)

But, I suppose I am going to get slammed for not jumping on the Joran is a 'serial/gang rapist' bandwagon!

Posted by: donnaanna | Aug 28, 2005
===============
I presume this is a different girl than the 13 yr old girl from the International school that Joran developed a friendship with and that broke off.

Is the 14 yr old girl who is a victim of picture taking (Freddy's arrest) the same girl as the one who that came forward and said that Joran forced sex with her? Is Joran being charged with this also? I had the impression that the Kalpoe brothers were involved in this - is that accurate? Deepak is 20 and has no business at all being around a girl this age. No matter if they had a video or not, group sex and taking of naked pictures (if this is true) of a 14 yr old girl is disgusting, even if she did consent. Still not OK.

[Moon]

Will his sordid past make any difference if there is little concrete evidence regarding the case discussed?

Disturbing, but, it is true that w/technology where it is (ie video phones)O and adolescence as it is, there are more young men than we'd like to believe that are engaging in video-sex behavior (I am a therapist who works with at risk teens). Would most of these young men rape and murder a girl and cover it up? I'd say it would depend on the influences around them and their own mental health.

I just looked through the Sunday paper and a department store ad. In the young teen section a seductive looking young lady wore a t-shirt that said "Wild Ride" with a bucking bronco next to it. Am I the only one who thinks this might send an inappropriate message?

We can all point fingers...and point out his previous lewd behavior...as it makes us feel safe as individuals. Oh, see, nice scholarly boys don't do this, just crazed Pimpin' borderline pedophiles. We all want to IDENTIFY potential perpetrators, that way we think we can avoid them and, to some level, point fingers at the victim for not knowing better. That enables us to mentally distance ourselves from the possibility of becoming a victim.

Interesting.

My point is, even if NONE of this historical history on Joran had come out or even existed; it is still possible that he committed a crime.

[Anna]

charges against Freddy are for distributing pictures of this girl (and possibly others?)in suggestive poses. She willingly posed for them but did not want them distruted. She asked them to stop, and they did. (I am guessing that we all saw the same news program, right?)

But, I suppose I am going to get slammed for not jumping on the Joran is a 'serial/gang rapist' bandwagon!

Posted by: donnaanna | Aug 28, 2005

Not slamming anybody but I did not see that news program nor hear any account like that with her asking them to stop and they did. Stop what? Taking the photos or having sex with her? Either way, she is far to young to have been giving consent to either.

[Althor]

Quote: "One can only hope there aren't even more sinister revelations to come in this case."

The problem is that these are not "revelations," the Prosecutor is not the one that has made them public, but only the feverish, obsessed ruminations, of those morbidly fascinated with this melodrama, and now we have the expert opinions, affirmations, and prognostications, of every "Expert," "Numerologist," "Pseudo-Psychologist," "Seer" and every "Dick," "Tom," and "Harry," who are the ones providing you all with all this "misinformation" which will amount to a "hill of beans" if and when there is a prosecution!

Pathetic!!!

And the "Natalee Holloway Cicus" (PT Barnum would have loved all the clowns in this one!) goes on!

Althor

[RICK]

Althor's comments above: Sadly, I think you are correct in your current determination of the Holloway situation in Aruba!!!! The "expert opinions" of the nightly media babble crew, tends to leave one in a negative state for the sake of their ratings. She's gone, the prosecution has seemingly little to go on and the re-arrest of the Kalpoe brothers may be a smoke screen for the upcoming elections. However, I am a new fan of Van Zandt, who, in my opinion, has a more realistic perspective of the goings on in the Natalee case, which in turn, leaves me with some hope!!!!!

[ruffneck]

Deepak is linked to this guy:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=QqwJp_WUx1j84e-D

That guy is linked to this girl:

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool_association/AS3.php

can someone give her a call?
Could be interesting.

[ruffneck]

edit.

the phone number on that page is from the Marten dude.
does he know where Nat is?
lets give him a call

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool_association/AS3.php

[Cricket]

I am not defending anything at all what Joran is or has done but the story of him involved with the 13/14 year old is not unusual when he is 16 years old. If you all can recall the guy only turned 17 in jail in the past few months. The fact that there are tapes supposely of this girl or any other young lady says alot of his charater. This wholesome ,clean cut, goodlooking athetic young man my ass. This says alot for his image. Even if the videos are voice overs this young men have seriuos problems and someone please tell why this Freddy guy what not invested before if it was said that he was charged last year for the distribution of prono videos.

[jayjay]

Cricket,

I am with you, but Joran just turned 18 in jail not 17!

[jgirl]

Sounds like bs to me. Many men prefer younger women, and it is up to the parents to monitor and terminate such relationships. Just another attempt to lower someones character when all the truth has not surfaced. The guy is no different than many his age in the US. Why try and deny that?

[cricket]

If Most amercian young men are out there taking pictures and video and distributed them what is the world coming to. I am not sure what those boys are guilty of but one thing am I sure of they know something about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. I think they each had a role what ever that may be. The issue is not the profile of the girl that Joran dates it is the issue of how he takes advantages of them at any age. If in fact he did do the things that he is accussed of then age is not issue is the crime at hand. It does not make is any less or more of a crime does it????

[aoife24]

Cricket he turned 18 on August 4th, not 17.

[cricket]

I stand corrected sorry guys : (

[lisabobeesa]

This mentality of older guys dating much younger girls certainly seems prevalent on these islands...I am a canadian living in Jamaica....and my teenager was blown away when boys his age were showing interest in much younger girls...i mean in canada...that would not have been socially acceptable...but i guess this is the point...its not canada or the USA..its a small island..now these boys who i spoke of..i think they were not rapists who had an underlying problem with dominating young submissive girls....i think it is less that and more the simple fact there is a smaller dating pool...or selection of girls their own ages....I am no fan of Joran..i believe he is hiding his guilt...but i think we are not being fair ..and drawing too many conclusions that are just too far fetched! and arent very fair.

[cricket]

I guess we all at times are being unfair but we are spoon feed so many things that we are grasping at straws. We are not given anything concrete and we like many are wishing that the truth is found. For the family and for Natalee. For now we can only throw these things out there trying to make sense of it all in a situation that seems conclusion less. The Media puts out there false lead after false lead and putting the public in a tail spin. There are so many truth and untruth that people don't know where end and where they begin.

[vincent]

maybe the young girl's parent's forbid Joran to see their daughter for other reasons than age difference? Maybe he was abusive? Or a bad influence? Why do we assume it's about age?

[To Hell With Aruba]

I can't believe anyone on this posts wants to argue what is fair or not fair for Joran. He's trash and he has been given every loophole, every chance, every amenity for a guy in his position. If you want to talk fair, let's talk about the Holloway family and Natalee. Crap on Joran and his looser sissy friends.

Personally I don't care if they hang him by his balls from the tallest tree in Alabama, without a trial, without his precious rights blah blah blah. He took a precious life and destroyed it - he trampled all over someone else's rights and I'm sick to death of hearing about what's fair for momma's boy Joran.

[Shelly]

Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.

Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

It appears that she has been married twice. I don't know if Rodriguez or Albert is her maiden name. Since she is listed as being "Dutch" I would think that "Albert" was probably her maiden name....but, I am not sure. Can anybody help me out on this?

I have always thought "Zedan" was Freddy's last name until I found this other info. Could it be his middle name?

You can find this information at:
http://206.48.100.138/registry/registry_search.afp

Type in: S.C. BUBALI where it says TRADE NAME & then click search.

[MySearcher]

Dan,

Why do you let "To Hell With Aruba" remain on this board??
This posting has nothing to do with finding Natalee.
Such nasty talk!

[Freebird]

Personally I agree with To Hell With Aruba. Joran has been given all kinds of rights, Natalee has none. They said he plays games, and has actcess to a computor, what does Natalee have not a THING. Even if she is alive you know she is not being treated well. There is know telling what all they have done to her. And if she is dead she still has no rights, being throwed in the trash or feed to the sharks. These boys have no respect for life or one of them would have done told something.

[webmaster@pool-table-rules.com]

I've noticed my site getting traffic coming from this forum. After reading it i almost feel like im promoting someone bad with my listing here:

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool_association/AS3.php

Can someone fill me in w/ an email to webmaster@pool-table-rules.com?

Thanks guys

[Marcia]

Cricket,
Joran was 17 when arrested. he turned 18 while in jail.

[unaloona]

Looking at the 20/20 report there's absolutely no way they're going to get this guy!! The man sloot was flippin names of his friends like he was flippin those "bitches" as he calls them. The're no way they going to get him. This guy knows the get out of a tricky situation and lead them on a wild goose chase. I don't know which is worse Scott peterson chopping off his wife head and sinking her torso, the Peterson cop stuffing the wife in a wheel barrel or a van der sloot stuffing this gal natalie with the help of his buddy in a crab cage and stinking it in deep waters?